iPhone 17 and beyond: Apple's most ambitious lineup

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware

Apple's John Ternus is enthused about the iPhone 17 and beyond, with him saying in a leaked memo that the company is working on most ambitious lineup the company has ever worked on. Here's why.

Close-up of the back of a modern smartphone with a camera lens and sensor, set against a dark background.
Render of a possible future -- and slimmer -- iPhone



Even Tim Cook has noticed he's over used the line, "this is the best iPhone we've ever made," and seems to have dialled that back. But Apple executives do still tend to lean on their hyperbole API, and now it seems they do so even in internal memos.

As spotted by Bloomberg, Apple's senior vice president of Hardware Engineering, John Ternus, has been stirring up the troops. The planned next iPhones are, he said, the "most ambitious in the product's history."

It wasn't just a random internal message during an exchange about today's menu at Cafe Macs in Apple Park. Instead, it was part of an announcement about that iPhone future.

Beyond the iPhone, Ternus was presumably working on the M4 Mac launches that are now expected soon. But, in the memo, he was also announcing the promotion of three people to vice president status.

One of them is Rich Dinh, who was senior director of product design, and whose previous work includes the new Camera Control button.

A render of an iPhone Fold
A render of an iPhone Fold



Dinh is now vice president of product design, apparently specifically for the iPhone. His new role is not yet listed on Apple's leadership page, but then that hasn't been updated to show Carol Surface leaving either.

What Ternus could mean



Despite the iPhone now being 17 years old, it is genuinely true that each year's model is the best Apple has ever made. It may not be that each time there is something substantially new, but there is always something we haven't had -- and that we now wouldn't give up.

There is an argument that today's iPhone is really the same as the 2007 original -- but only because they are both rectangular and flat panes of glass. For the first time, it's now possible that this basic shape may soon change, or at least a little.

If it does, it will perhaps be a case of Apple doing what it tends to do. Which is to come late to the party, but be the one that brings all the wine.

Prepare to be clamshell-shocked



So it may be five years since Samsung first brought out a folding phone, but Apple is unquestionably working on one. At least internally.

Forget rumors, Apple has filed patents regarding multiple different folding technologies. Given those, there is no doubt it is working on an iPhone Fold.

A foldable smartphone with a colorful display showing the time 19:32 and date Wednesday, 7 June on a gradient background.
A render of what the iPhone Fold could look like



There is, though, quite some doubt over whether Apple will ever release it. With any other company in the world, the sheer weight of patent evidence we have would guarantee they would bring out a folding phone.

Two words. Apple Car.

Apple can't enjoy cancelling projects, and Dinh would doubtlessly face a grilling from Tim Cook if he tried to ditch the iPhone fold. But the fact is that Apple has form in this, it could well drop the iPhone fold if it decides it won't be a winner.

Which might be why in more recent years, rumors have blurred a little. Instead of an iPhone fold, there has been talk of a subtly different flip iPhone.

And then the road to an iPhone flip could be via Apple practicing to make a thinner model. Apple surely can't let a folded iPhone flip be much wider than a current, regular iPhone.

So perhaps before we see a flip or a folding iPhone, we might see something else. Specifically, 2025 may bring us the iPhone 17 Slim.



Even the name of that might as well be a guess, since so little is known and only a tiny bit more is rumored. But it's possible that the iPhone 17 range will drop the Plus model and instead have this Slim one.

It's not even clear whether that means the Slim one will take the place of the Plus in the lineup. It could conceivably come in at the top of the range, and turn out to be the long-rumored iPhone Ultra.

To come in above the iPhone 17 Pro Max, the slim model would surely have to offer similar specifications. All that's rumored so far is that it would have a 6.6-inch screen, putting it below the iPhone 16 Plus's 6.7-inches.

Define exciting



However Ternus's memo leaked out, it unfortunately didn't come with any attachments. There is absolutely no evidence of what he meant by "most ambitious," or "an exciting future."

Nor is the entire text available for review. We don't doubt that it exists, given Gurman's reputation, but there's a lot of missing context that could be gleaned.

Regardless, the rumors of a folding, flipping, slim iPhone are so plentiful that even without various patents, it would seem likely one is coming. Yet it could still be a case of wishful thinking.

And it could also be a case of a failure of imagination, it could be that Apple has something no one is expecting. It could be that Apple has a device in mind that no one has asked for, no one predicts, but everyone seems to want it when it's out.

Two words. Mac Studio.



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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 21
    DAalsethDAalseth Posts: 3,048member
    This supports my decision to wait another year before upgrading. I just have a feeling that the 17 will be a big model year. 
    jbirdiikunpulseimagessflagelbyronlwatto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 21
    charlesncharlesn Posts: 1,163member
    I have yet to see even a speculative render of the rumored iPhone Slim or Air that's anything but a snooze. They all look like the current iPhone, just somewhat slimmer, and absolutely no one is clamoring for that--especially when it comes with a reduced feature/spec list and a premium price! If "slim" is going to generate real excitement and a desire to pay more for less phone, then it had better look more like Jony Ive's ideal of a single slab of glass--or something else that just blows you away when you see it. When even speculative render artists can't come up with something exciting, that's an indication of how tough the challenge is. 

    I also don't see Apple jumping into the folding screen phone business. Five years after Samsung debuted the Galaxy Fold, and despite all the noise around folding screen phones, they remain a relatively niche business, especially at the higher end where Apple would compete. And Apple's gains would likely be minimal, coming mainly from cannibalizing existing iPhone Pro Max sales. As everyone should know by now, the consumer hardware game has mostly ceased being a competition of individual device supremacy and is all about whichever ecosystem you happen to be in. And Apple has the strongest ecosystem by far. So while an Android phone may top iPhone in this or that particular feature, it fails when it comes to integration within the Apple ecosystem. and that failure is of much greater consequence to Apple users than any feature advantage for Android, be it a folding screen or something else. Apple's main competition now is itself and figuring out ways to keep the upgrade cycle going when the compelling reasons to upgrade ANY particular piece of hardware have now become much harder to come by. 

    edited October 22 williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 21
    I don't understand the appeal of a folding phone. They are:

    • More expensive
    • More expensive to repair
    • Screen is less scratch resistant
    • Screen may show fold
    • Hinges make it more prone to break or susceptible to dust
    • Heavier
    • Can be difficult to use with one hand

    All just to have a larger screen. I would love a folding iPad. Give me an e-ink display on the outside and it would be the perfect travel companion for movies and books. 

    edited October 22 elijahgPenzimaltz
  • Reply 4 of 21
    I don't understand the appeal of a folding phone. They are:

    • More expensive
    • More expensive to repair
    • Screen is less scratch resistant
    • Screen may show fold
    • Hinges make it more prone to break or susceptible to dust
    • Heavier
    • Can be difficult to use with one hand

    All just to have a larger screen. I would love a folding iPad. Give me an e-ink display on the outside and it would be the perfect travel companion for movies and books. 

    Isn't the reason you want a folding iPad essentially why someone would want a folding iPhone? Your points aren't wrong, but something like a pixel fold gets you an iPad mini in a size that not that much bigger than a 16 pro max.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 21
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,486moderator
    I don't understand the appeal of a folding phone. They are:
    • More expensive
    • More expensive to repair
    • Screen is less scratch resistant
    • Screen may show fold
    • Hinges make it more prone to break or susceptible to dust
    • Heavier
    • Can be difficult to use with one hand
    All just to have a larger screen. I would love a folding iPad. Give me an e-ink display on the outside and it would be the perfect travel companion for movies and books. 
    Maybe it would be better to have the folding displays as external displays rather than design the whole product around it. The panels are thin and light and could be built into a case.

    Putting it into a phone form factor replaces the need for a tablet as it's the same apps.

    If it was on the back of the phone, the middle 1/3rd of the display would be over the back and two other 1/3rds can fold out left and right.

    iPhone 16 is 5.81" x 2.82" so if it was turned over and the display folded out, it would have a 8.46" x 5.81" display = 10" diagonal iPad-like display. It wouldn't matter so much if the display breaks because it's external. It would still be an expensive replacement but an instant replacement, just get a new one in store.

    Then they can offer e-ink, OLED and ones designed for drawing on.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 21
     Is there some technical reason the back of the iPhone cannot be a display?  It can have a non-display area reserved  for the camera, but otherwise...?

    pulseimageswatto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 21
    M68000M68000 Posts: 880member
     Is there some technical reason the back of the iPhone cannot be a display?  It can have a non-display area reserved  for the camera, but otherwise...?

    Perhaps heat and power drain?
    Why would you want a phone like that?

    edited October 22 watto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 21
    PemaPema Posts: 155member
     Is there some technical reason the back of the iPhone cannot be a display?  It can have a non-display area reserved  for the camera, but otherwise...?

    Samsung tried this schtick some while back with a rounded display overlapping the bezel. It was about as popular as a penny farthing. Which is why Samsung deprecated that model. 

    But the bigger point is why is Apple still plugging the sameo sameo, iPhone? Can you imagine G&R releasing the same album of songs with slight improvisations 17 years, year after year. Appetite for Destruction. More Appetite for Destruction. Ravenous for Destruction and on and on. You get the point? 

    The company needs to start building a new revenue stream rather than relying on mining the same gold vein. 
  • Reply 9 of 21
    I don't understand the appeal of a folding phone. They are:

    • More expensive
    • More expensive to repair
    • Screen is less scratch resistant
    • Screen may show fold
    • Hinges make it more prone to break or susceptible to dust
    • Heavier
    • Can be difficult to use with one hand

    All just to have a larger screen. I would love a folding iPad. Give me an e-ink display on the outside and it would be the perfect travel companion for movies and books. 

    Isn't the reason you want a folding iPad essentially why someone would want a folding iPhone? Your points aren't wrong, but something like a pixel fold gets you an iPad mini in a size that not that much bigger than a 16 pro max.
    In terms of screen area, you would need to go trifold to get an iPad mini screen in an iPhone form factor when folded. Extremely expensive, very delicate, poor battery life, bad cameras.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 21
    Ever since the design department essentially died at Apple they lack any 'insanely great' new ideas. So I don't expect much any longer. Apart from the fact that I for now over 20 years completely fail to see anything positive about flip phones.
  • Reply 11 of 21
    M68000M68000 Posts: 880member
    Would like to have an FM radio in all new iPhones.  It would be great for traveling.  Yeah,  I know about streaming.  But, FM would let people enjoy local radio stations wherever they are.  
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 21
    And it could also be a case of a failure of imagination, it could be that Apple has something no one is expecting. It could be that Apple has a device in mind that no one has asked for, no one predicts, but everyone seems to want it when it's out.’

    20 bucks says that it’s just a slim iPhone. Steve has been dead for awhile and Apple hasn’t released anything unexpected since. Maybe AirPods Max, but even Apple doesn’t care about those and have since refused to innovate further in the space. Tim Cook knows only fragmentation and price structures. He wouldn’t know innovation if it ran him over like a train. Vision Pro is the cherry on top. Apple doesn’t know why it exists other than for people to buy it. That’s it. That’s the innovation. A big price tag. No solved problems. No new computing paradigms that will carve out the future of tech, just some big dumb goggles.
  • Reply 13 of 21
    charlesncharlesn Posts: 1,163member
    Hazen said:
    ‘And it could also be a case of a failure of imagination, it could be that Apple has something no one is expecting. It could be that Apple has a device in mind that no one has asked for, no one predicts, but everyone seems to want it when it's out.’

    20 bucks says that it’s just a slim iPhone. Steve has been dead for awhile and Apple hasn’t released anything unexpected since. Maybe AirPods Max, but even Apple doesn’t care about those and have since refused to innovate further in the space. Tim Cook knows only fragmentation and price structures. He wouldn’t know innovation if it ran him over like a train. Vision Pro is the cherry on top. Apple doesn’t know why it exists other than for people to buy it. That’s it. That’s the innovation. A big price tag. No solved problems. No new computing paradigms that will carve out the future of tech, just some big dumb goggles.
    Hey, welcome to the Apple Insider community! This is gonna be a quick hello because after just 5 posts you've convinced me to put you on Ignore. Thanks!
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 21
    Isn't the reason you want a folding iPad essentially why someone would want a folding iPhone? Your points aren't wrong, but something like a pixel fold gets you an iPad mini in a size that not that much bigger than a 16 pro max.
    I don't like how heavy the current iPhone is in my pocket let alone a folding one. I also never said I wanted a larger screen for my phone, but it would be nice to have a larger screen in a smaller form factor for media consumption while traveling.
    edited October 23 watto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 21
    DAalsethDAalseth Posts: 3,048member
    Pema said:
     Is there some technical reason the back of the iPhone cannot be a display?  It can have a non-display area reserved  for the camera, but otherwise...?

    But the bigger point is why is Apple still plugging the sameo sameo, iPhone? Can you imagine G&R releasing the same album of songs with slight improvisations 17 years, year after year. Appetite for Destruction. More Appetite for Destruction. Ravenous for Destruction and on and on. You get the point? 
    The other side of this would be does anyone complain about Mercedes releasing very similar cars year after year? Are there people online wishing they would make something completely different like a motorized trike or an electric dirt bike? Also different how? I mean this in all seriousness, how would a totally different iPhone be different? Folding is just gilding the lily. Do we want round ones? Ones that roll up? Somebody tried a device that had no screen and projected the image of the display, it was a staggering flop. Let’s be honest, touch screen on one side, cameras on both, is about as standard a paradigm as Mouse-Keyboard-Monitor. I would be interested to see someone came up with something truly revolutionary. Revolutionary as the Mac was in a world of DOS. 
    edited October 23 watto_cobra
  • Reply 16 of 21
    A foldable phone I think is one of the worst ways to get a larger display for a mobile device.

    The desire for the larger display is best solved IMO with linked eyewear. The devices today are not bad at all, but will be even better as time goes on.  Untethered eyewear would be ideal but a cable is not a deal breaker IMO.

    Disconnecting the screen from the (mobile) computer should be the direction we’re moving in. I believe Apple knows this as it brought us the Mac Studio instead of a new super sized iMac.
    (Quick aside - I love my big screen iMac, but from a sustainability/ecological perspective I hope Apple never produces another huge iMac again). I will get a Studio when I’m ready to upgrade)

    I’m not advocating for no screen on the phone. Just no reason to super size it.

    I need to do some testing myself on the experience of using eyewear with my iPhone and MBP.  If current gen glasses can give me one or more larger virtual screen, I’d be very happy with that.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 21
    …and, if we got that far, it wouldn’t be too much further to have a little dock for our phone were we could walk up to a KVM, place our phone on its little pad and have a full desktop experience.  That is my dream that is likely to never come to fruition. I would get busy building that if I could license Apple tech.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 18 of 21
    …and, if we got that far, it wouldn’t be too much further to have a little dock for our phone were we could walk up to a KVM, place our phone on its little pad and have a full desktop experience.  That is my dream that is likely to never come to fruition. I would get busy building that if I could license Apple tech.
    Don't write off that possibility yet. I think it will eventually happen, may be around 2030. In my view, Apple's iphones have already got sufficient processing power/storage to be able to do that. Even if they have not reached that level yet, it is only 1-2 years away from that level of capability. But Apple won't bring that capability until the competition (Android/Windows) pushes it harder, which I think would take another 5-6 years.
  • Reply 19 of 21
    Just give me an iPad Mini Pro with telephony capabilities. No folds.
    pulseimageswatto_cobra
  • Reply 20 of 21
    Pema said:
     Is there some technical reason the back of the iPhone cannot be a display?  It can have a non-display area reserved  for the camera, but otherwise...?

    Samsung tried this schtick some while back with a rounded display overlapping the bezel. It was about as popular as a penny farthing. Which is why Samsung deprecated that model. 

    But the bigger point is why is Apple still plugging the sameo sameo, iPhone? Can you imagine G&R releasing the same album of songs with slight improvisations 17 years, year after year. Appetite for Destruction. More Appetite for Destruction. Ravenous for Destruction and on and on. You get the point? 

    The company needs to start building a new revenue stream rather than relying on mining the same gold vein. 
    You just described AC/DC’s entire catalog.
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