macOS Sequoia 15.2 isn't allowing third-party utilities to make bootable backups

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The developer of SuperDuper! says what they think is a bug in macOS Sequoia 15.2 has inadvertently broken how the app can create bootable backups -- however, it may not be accidental at all.

A stylus, paper drawing of a hard drive, pencil, and external hard drive on a desk with a keyboard.
SuperDuper! app icon amidst hard drives and a Mac keyboard



It's some years since Apple took steps to at least make it harder for people to start up their Macs using external drives. That was a privacy issue, a security issue, and a bit of a pain for anyone who remembers Mac drives failing.

Now according to developer Dave Nanian, Apple has gone further, maybe unintentionally. Nanian is the developer of backup app SuperDuper! and says that since macOS Sequoia 15.2 has changed a feature called the Replicator, his app has been unable to create a bootable backup.

"macOS 15.2 was released a few days ago, with a surprise. A terrible, awful surprise," he wrote in a blog post. "Apple broke the replicator. Towards the end of replicating the Data volume, seemingly when it's about to copy either Preboot or Recovery, it fails with a Resource Busy error."

What this means is that at the last moment, a backup that is meant to create a bootable copy of a user's macOS system, will fail.

"Since Apple took away the ability for 3rd parties (eg, us) to copy the OS, and took on the responsibility themselves, it's been up to them to ensure this functionality continues to work," continues Nanian. "And in that, they've failed in macOs 15.2."

"Because this is their code, and we're forced to rely on it to copy the OS, OS copying will not work until they fix it," he says.

The claimed bug is specifically to do with creating a backup that a user can then start up their Mac from. It doesn't affect backing up data to external drives.

Consequently, Time Machine is so far reported to be working correctly. There have as yet been no reports of the issue affecting other backup apps.

That may be because other backup apps have stepped away from offering full, bootable backups. Carbon Copy Cloner, for instance, says it can only make a "best effort" to create a bootable backup for specific use cases like migrating between Intel Macs.

Otherwise, the company explicitly says it does not support making a bootable drive as part of a regular backup strategy.

As recently as 2021, Carbon Copy Cloner was making bootable backups, but its founder said those days were limited because of the direction Apple was taking macOS. Apple Silicon uses a Signed System Volume and if that is damaged, reportedly a Mac won't start up -- perhaps even if the user had an external boot drive.

"We can't fix it.... Apple has to do so," says Nanian. "It's unfortunate this is happening during this period, since Apple rarely releases updates between now and New Year's."

Maybe Nanian is right this macOS Sequoia 15.2 issue is a bug. But it's at least as likely that it is an intentional final nail in the coffin of third party developers being able to create bootable startup disks.



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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 26
    AppleZuluapplezulu Posts: 2,386member
    Actually, Time Machine actually has been having problems since Sequoia’s release. On MacBook Pros at least, there has been an issue getting Time Machine backups to complete when the Mac goes to “sleep.” There is some sort of issue with accessing certain files during sleep mode. I’m assuming this is some sort of security measure bumping up against Time Machine. Previously, as long as it was connected to power, you could close the notebook and set it aside, and it would continue to do wireless backups to NAS devices. Not any more, or at least not without adjusting some settings I haven’t figured out yet. I’ve been able to get backups to happen if the machine remains ‘awake,’ but just letting it happen in the background has been significantly diminished. I plan to set aside some time to take it up with Apple support, but haven’t yet done so. I was sort of hoping it would just get resolved in an update, but not so far.  
    dewmetdknoxargonautAlex1N
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  • Reply 2 of 26
    Fred257fred257 Posts: 288member
    If this is the case it being intentional then Apple needs to be broken up as a company. This clearly is meant to be used against consumers who want to boot from a cheaper alternative to Apples exorbitant and outrageous internal hard drive rip off.
    bikertwin
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  • Reply 3 of 26
    lam92103lam92103 Posts: 153member
    This is not at all a new bug and had been happening even in other backup softwares. Started with Sonoma i think
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 4 of 26
    Hedwarehedware Posts: 105member
    No need to look at conspiracy theories- just the usual low level of programming standards of today’s Apple. 
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 5 of 26
    MplsPmplsp Posts: 4,107member
    Fred257 said:
    If this is the case it being intentional then Apple needs to be broken up as a company. This clearly is meant to be used against consumers who want to boot from a cheaper alternative to Apples exorbitant and outrageous internal hard drive rip off.
    Why would you routinely want to do so? I can see the complaint about cost, but even the smallest drive Apple sells is more than adequate to hold the OS and applications. Why not simply do that and have an external TB drive for data?
    andbumdwmaccam
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  • Reply 6 of 26
    MplsPmplsp Posts: 4,107member
    I’m not thrilled to hear this but in the end it probably won’t affect me. I prefer to have a bootable external copy of MacOS as an emergency backup incase of a hard drive failure but the solid state drives they use are quite reliable and I can’t think of the last time I’ve had one fail or even heard of one failing. 

    If you have your hard drive encrypted what’s the security advantage of preventing an external boot drive?
    andbumaccamAlex1N
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  • Reply 7 of 26
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,984member
    AppleZulu said:
    Actually, Time Machine actually has been having problems since Sequoia’s release. On MacBook Pros at least, there has been an issue getting Time Machine backups to complete when the Mac goes to “sleep.” There is some sort of issue with accessing certain files during sleep mode. I’m assuming this is some sort of security measure bumping up against Time Machine. Previously, as long as it was connected to power, you could close the notebook and set it aside, and it would continue to do wireless backups to NAS devices. Not any more, or at least not without adjusting some settings I haven’t figured out yet. I’ve been able to get backups to happen if the machine remains ‘awake,’ but just letting it happen in the background has been significantly diminished. I plan to set aside some time to take it up with Apple support, but haven’t yet done so. I was sort of hoping it would just get resolved in an update, but not so far.  
    I’m in the exact same boat with respect to Time Machine being hosed since Sequoia. I have this issue on 3 different hardware platforms, M2 Air, M2 Pro mini, and M1 Max Studio. Apple Support has been useless on this issue, acting like I was the first person on the planet to encounter this issue. I like Apple Support, they are courteous and try to engage, but you have to escalate up a few layers before you’ll get anyone who actually understands the technical aspects of what you’re talking about. I sent them the Time Machine logs that show the errors occurring over a 24 hour period. Total silence. They must be working very hard on how to generate a cartoon rendering of a monkey riding a banana-cycle. My fallback was to increase the frequency of my CCC backups.
    tdknoxrezwitsbikertwinelijahgargonautAlex1N
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  • Reply 8 of 26
    TomPMRItompmri Posts: 52member
    AppleZulu said:
    Actually, Time Machine actually has been having problems since Sequoia’s release. On MacBook Pros at least, there has been an issue getting Time Machine backups to complete when the Mac goes to “sleep.” There is some sort of issue with accessing certain files during sleep mode. I’m assuming this is some sort of security measure bumping up against Time Machine. Previously, as long as it was connected to power, you could close the notebook and set it aside, and it would continue to do wireless backups to NAS devices. Not any more, or at least not without adjusting some settings I haven’t figured out yet. I’ve been able to get backups to happen if the machine remains ‘awake,’ but just letting it happen in the background has been significantly diminished. I plan to set aside some time to take it up with Apple support, but haven’t yet done so. I was sort of hoping it would just get resolved in an update, but not so far.  
    The Time Machine problem occurs on both my MacBook Air M2 and one of my two MacMinis that I upgraded to Sonoma. I have held off upgrading my other MacMini, waiting for the problem to be fixed in 15.2…which didn't happen.

    This has occupied numerous threads in the Apple Communities, so, for now, Apple has broken any way to create a bootable (I have used SuperDuper! for years) or a Time Machine reliable backup.

    One solution that does fix the Time Machine bug is to turn off the firewall (suggested by Apple), which is a very insecure/stupid fix. No idea if this also allows SuperDuper! to function properly…
    dewmebikertwinargonautAlex1N
     3Likes 0Dislikes 1Informative
  • Reply 9 of 26
    teejay2012teejay2012 Posts: 417member
    I tried to create a bootable drive, using CCC and an external NVME drive. The first time, my Mini announced 'success' but sadly it failed to boot my Mini going through the 'Shut down -> Recovery' process. So I tried again..and again.. but each time, CCC now reported 'Failed'. Not sure why, I did not change anything. I think Apple's logic is that the system files are so locked down in Sequoia that they can never be corrupted, and you would always be able to restore your data, after reinstalling the OS. I have always made a clone with CCC and a backup with Time Machine, but not sure that even makes sense anymore. My concern is what happens if internal storage fails? I think you would end up with a brick, unless the OS allows an external drive in that situation. I put AppleCare on my M4 Mac Mini and for the next 3 years I will not worry about it.

    The security changes have made everything more complicated. I had to add an extension and then go through several layers of installation and approval to get DriveDx to report SMART status of external data storage drives. Initially it would only report on the internal SSD otherwise. It also had trouble sleeping (like it would not sleep) until I turned off Spotlight, as it kept indexing files. A bug in Sequoia I have read. There is no longer any scheduling of wake and shut down in 10.15 - you can set up in Onyx but why was this removed? Because it uses so little power, that Apple thought you would leave on 24/7? [insert head scratch here]. This was an overdue upgrade for me. I love the size, speed, and low energy use of the M4 Mini but between the increased security and changes in Sequoia, I have never spent as much time tweaking a Mac to function as I wanted.
    dewmebikertwinelijahgargonautAlex1N
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  • Reply 10 of 26
    enossifiedenossified Posts: 7member
    There’s one perfectly valid reason for having external bootable drives: testing OS updates before committing to them. I’ve been doing this for years. I'd like to know what applications are broken by a new OS and deal with that in advance rather than trying to back out of the OS update because I am blocked from working.
    chasmbikertwinargonautAlex1N
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  • Reply 11 of 26
    chasmchasm Posts: 3,724member
    I have used Carbon Copy Cloner for years to make a bootable backup because it is handy when your boot drive experiences a problem and you’d like to diagnose whether the drive has failed, or is simply in need of Disk Utility or something like that to fix the booting issue.

    If you were in the middle of something that needs to be completed (and the drive hasn’t failed completely), the bootable backup can allow you to finish your project before handing the machine over to an AASP for drive replacement.

    SSDs are like lightbulbs — they tend to work perfectly for years and years, until one day — with no warning — they don’t. They’re dead and there’s nothing to be done — unless you have a bootable backup you can work from until you can get the machine serviced.

    Back in the HD days, CCC (and/or SuperDuper) saved my bacon a few times. While I agree there is LESS need for a bootable backup anymore, I wouldn’t say there is ZERO need for it, so I hope SD and CCC can convince Apple of the folly of disabling bootable backups entirely.
    dewmebikertwinAlex1N
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  • Reply 12 of 26
    boboliciousbobolicious Posts: 1,192member
    enossified said:
    There’s one perfectly valid reason for having external bootable drives: testing OS updates before committing to them. I’ve been doing this for years. I'd like to know what applications are broken by a new OS and deal with that in advance rather than trying to back out of the OS update because I am blocked from working.
    Agreed...

    ... and in fast paced workflows having functional mirror drives can be a deadline saver...
    APFS has seemed increasingly challenging for so many aspects of maintaining macs in house...

    Cumulatively:
    - onboard hardware locks down storage
    - T2 hardware locks down storage
    - pricing @ up to 600% of free market options locks down storage (recent check)
    - apfs 'snapshots' quietly consume inordinate drive space
    - cloud service subscriptions are offered at premium prices

    How does any of this serve the customer first...?
    dewmebikertwinAlex1N
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  • Reply 13 of 26
    AppleZuluapplezulu Posts: 2,386member
    TomPMRI said:
    AppleZulu said:
    Actually, Time Machine actually has been having problems since Sequoia’s release. On MacBook Pros at least, there has been an issue getting Time Machine backups to complete when the Mac goes to “sleep.” There is some sort of issue with accessing certain files during sleep mode. I’m assuming this is some sort of security measure bumping up against Time Machine. Previously, as long as it was connected to power, you could close the notebook and set it aside, and it would continue to do wireless backups to NAS devices. Not any more, or at least not without adjusting some settings I haven’t figured out yet. I’ve been able to get backups to happen if the machine remains ‘awake,’ but just letting it happen in the background has been significantly diminished. I plan to set aside some time to take it up with Apple support, but haven’t yet done so. I was sort of hoping it would just get resolved in an update, but not so far.  
    The Time Machine problem occurs on both my MacBook Air M2 and one of my two MacMinis that I upgraded to Sonoma. I have held off upgrading my other MacMini, waiting for the problem to be fixed in 15.2…which didn't happen.

    This has occupied numerous threads in the Apple Communities, so, for now, Apple has broken any way to create a bootable (I have used SuperDuper! for years) or a Time Machine reliable backup.

    One solution that does fix the Time Machine bug is to turn off the firewall (suggested by Apple), which is a very insecure/stupid fix. No idea if this also allows SuperDuper! to function properly…
    I have successfully gotten it to do Time Machine backups without messing with the firewall. The problem seems to have something to do with file restrictions during "sleep mode." I wasn't methodical enough to isolate actions, but I fiddled with sleep/wake settings under battery and lock screen. There also is a simple app called "caffeine" that will keep your computer awake, which maybe is what has kept things open for backups to complete. I still get failures when I close the MBP (at least without "caffeine" activated) and leave it plugged in overnight. 
    edited December 2024
    TomPMRIdewmeAlex1N
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  • Reply 14 of 26
    Rogue01rogue01 Posts: 243member
    MplsP said:
    I’m not thrilled to hear this but in the end it probably won’t affect me. I prefer to have a bootable external copy of MacOS as an emergency backup incase of a hard drive failure but the solid state drives they use are quite reliable and I can’t think of the last time I’ve had one fail or even heard of one failing. 

    If you have your hard drive encrypted what’s the security advantage of preventing an external boot drive?
    What about macOS getting corrupted and unable to boot?  It is not about drive reliability, it is more about software suddenly failing and your Mac unable to boot.  The external drive was always a lifesaver for booting your Mac and being able to recover anything from the internal drive that might not have been backed up yet.  But Apple figures that people can hopefully boot to recovery mode and reinstall macOS.  More challenging with a managed Mac in Enterprise and a macOS update fails and renders a Mac unable to boot.

    To answer your question, if you have the drive encrypted with FileVault 2 and you boot from an external disk, the internal drive will prompt for the Mac password to unlock the disk.  Also, starting with the T2 security chip in Macs, you have to boot into Recovery Mode and change the security settings to allow the Mac to boot from an external disk.  It is disabled by default.
    dewmeAlex1N
     1Like 0Dislikes 1Informative
  • Reply 15 of 26
    rob53rob53 Posts: 3,351member
    I just ran SuperDuper and it did everything fine. I'm running macOS 15.2 and SuperDuper v3.9.1 (v134). No errors. I'm running on a 2019 Intel iMac. I did notice SuperDuper made some information changes on the front screen but I always do  the Backup-all files setting almost every night. Here's the last several lines of the SuperDuper log file showing it finished properly. I'm also, as always, running FileVault. Maybe the only problems are show up on Apple silicon Macs.

    | 02:25:41 PM | Info | PHASE: 3. After Successful Copy

    | 02:25:42 PM | Info | ...ACTION: Finalizing Mac Backup

    | 02:25:42 PM | Info | ......COMMAND => Cleaning up Macintosh HD Snapshot

    | 02:25:42 PM | Info |       Unmounting com.apple.TimeMachine.2024-12-17-141100.local@/dev/disk5s1 mounted on /private/var/folders/l7/vdrrhzjc8xlfky001s6xmr1h0000gp/T/com.blacey.SuperDuper/6712EEBC-1C1C-4437-9E44-B34E2D88A476/snapshot

    | 02:25:43 PM | Info |       Unmount successful for /private/var/folders/l7/vdrrhzjc8xlfky001s6xmr1h0000gp/T/com.blacey.SuperDuper/6712EEBC-1C1C-4437-9E44-B34E2D88A476/snapshot

    | 02:25:44 PM | Info | ......COMMAND => Removing session temporary directory

    | 02:25:44 PM | Info | PHASE: 4. And Finally...

    | 02:25:45 PM | Info | ...ACTION: Quitting SuperDuper!

    | 02:25:45 PM | Info | ......COMMAND => Quitting SuperDuper!

    | 02:25:46 PM | Info | Copy complete.

    edited: Just got a response from Shirt Pocket and the issues are only on Apple Silicon Macs, not Intel Macs.
    edited December 2024
    rezwitsjeffharrisdewmeAlex1Nchasm
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  • Reply 16 of 26
    jeffharrisjeffharris Posts: 892member
    That certainly blows.
    I’ve been a SuperDuper! user forever!
    I just got a fast 4TB SSD for backup cloning of my MacBook Pro M3. 

    So, now I can’t? What the…
    Hopefully there’s a quick fix.
    edited December 2024
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  • Reply 17 of 26
    PERockwellperockwell Posts: 49member
    Sorry to deisappoint those that suspect a conspiracy to inflate Apple's profits, but the same research will tell you that Apple has change the boot process for security purposes.

    Bootable backups can still be made, just not with the ASR tool. Mike Bombich (Carbon Copy Cloner) has been warning of this situation for years because of the undocumented nature of ASR and Apple's stance on cloning the operating system.

    Mike made a blog post about this over 3 years ago t https://bombich.com/blog/2021/05/19/beyond-bootable-backups-adapting-recovery-strategies-evolving-platform).  
    A significant quote from that blog:

    Back in December I had a conference call with Apple about the reliability and functionality of ASR on macOS and regarding Apple Silicon Macs in particular. They indicated that they were working to resolve the ASR/Apple Fabric issue, but they made it very clear that copying macOS system files was not something that would be supportable in the future. Many of us in the Mac community could see that this was the direction Apple was moving, and now we finally have confirmation. Especially since the introduction of APFS, Apple has been moving towards a lockdown of macOS system files, sacrificing some convenience for increased security.

    If you've done your research, you can find that bootable external disks can still be made, but your best method of doing so (recommended by a number of sources) is to create a data-volume only duplicate to the external disk, then perform a macOS installation to the external disk.  See Install macOS on an external storage device and use it as a startup disk and make-a-ventura-bootable-external-disk-for-an-apple-silicon-mac (I'm sure there are others)...

    The only wrinkle is because of the security architecture of Apple Silicon Macs -- they won't boot at all if the internal SSD fails. 


    dewmepdxGuy1959Alex1N
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  • Reply 18 of 26
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,984member
    Thank you to everyone who added more detail about the Time Machine and external bootable drive considerations.

    I’ve always been successful with restoring my macOS systems using the facilities provided in Recovery Mode and restoring my own files and configurations from Time Machine. So far I have not had to do it on Apple Silicon machines and I hope it still works. I’m assuming that running a Time Machine backup when I’m logged in still produces an image that can restore my files to the point of the last TM snapshot.
    mdwAlex1Nchasm
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  • Reply 19 of 26
    bikertwinbikertwin Posts: 574member
    Sorry to disappoint those that suspect a conspiracy to inflate Apple's profits, but the same research will tell you that Apple has change the boot process for security purposes.

    …

    The only wrinkle is because of the security architecture of Apple Silicon Macs -- they won't boot at all if the internal SSD fails. 

    Wrinkle? I think it’s proving the point you set out to refute.
    elijahgjeffharristeejay2012Alex1N
     4Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 20 of 26
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,888member
    MplsP said:
    Fred257 said:
    If this is the case it being intentional then Apple needs to be broken up as a company. This clearly is meant to be used against consumers who want to boot from a cheaper alternative to Apples exorbitant and outrageous internal hard drive rip off.
    Why would you routinely want to do so? I can see the complaint about cost, but even the smallest drive Apple sells is more than adequate to hold the OS and applications. Why not simply do that and have an external TB drive for data?
    Because who wants to drag around and faff about plugging in an external drive everywhere they go with a Macbook?
    jeffharrisAlex1N
     2Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
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