US may ban the most popular home router over Chinese security fears

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The Chinese-made TP-Link router used by Amazon, hundreds of ISPs, and 65% of the US market, is facing an investigation that could see it banned by the government.

A sleek, futuristic black Wi-Fi router with tall, angular side panels and labeled ports on the front.
A TP-Link router



Unspecified sources say that the Commerce Department under President Biden has already subpoenaed TP-Link. Between the three Departments, it's possible that TP-Link will be banned at some point in 2025 -- which obviously puts it under the Trump administration.

If a ban takes place, it is remarkably similar to the Trump administration's ban on Huawei technology in 2019. It's also close to how in 2022 the Biden administration's FCC declared Kaspersky anti-virus software to be a national security risk.

Now according to the Wall Street Journal, the US Commerce, Defense, and Justice Departments have each opened probes into China's TP-Link.

TP-Link rose to prominence in the US during the pandemic, going from a 20% market share to a 65% one in December 2024. More than 300 ISPs provide TP-Link as their default router.

As well as domestic users, TP-Link is reportedly now being used extensively at NASA, the Defense Department, and the DEA. The Biden Administration is considering a full purge of all installed TP-Link routers in federal service, though.

Security is the central concern for the investigations. While TP-Link routers are not specifically linked to the Salt Typhoon attacks, the three Departments are concerned that such action has exposed vulnerabilities that TP-Link is allegedly slow to resolve.

The Justice Department is also concerned with the pricing of the routers. The suspicion is that TP-Link routers are priced artificially low in order to get them into US firms.

It's also alleged that these routers may have been used in order to conduct cyber attacks on organizations including the Department of Defense.

Consequently the Justice Department is also looking at whether the company is violating the federal law that prohibits undercutting prices to create a monopoly. TP-Link denies the claim, and says that it will cooperate with the investigations.

"We welcome any opportunities to engage with the U.S. government to demonstrate that our security practices are fully in line with industry security standards," said a TP-Link spokesperson, "and to demonstrate our ongoing commitment to the US market, US consumers, and addressing US national security risks."

Should there be a ban, it would enacted in the same way as the Huawei one, which saw that technology being actively removed from government installs. Given the prevalence of TP-Link routers in homes, though, it's impossible that every domestic installation of every model could be replaced.

That means, however, that a ban on national security grounds would almost certainly lead to an escalation of security issues. Even if TP-Link were allowed to continue operating in the US, it would be unlikely to carry on updating software for existing routers.

Such a ban would benefit US firms such as Netgear, although it would contribute to the ongoing US/China trade tensions.

Separately, Congress recently wrote to the Department of Dense about China's dominance in the display market.



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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 30
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 3,764member
    We are either in the early stages of World War 3 (or WW4, if one calls the Cold War WW3), or in the late stages of the pre-war stage. It's akin to the time between Germany's annexation of the Sudetenland in 1938 and the invasion of Poland in 1939. That was a much shorter period of time, but I think it's analogous, in the sense that the writing was clearly on the wall then and it's clearly on the wall now. 

    The modern analog to the invasion of Poland might be when China takes Taiwan. That analogy will break down, though, when the US (acting in the analog role to the UK) decides to just let Taiwan go rather than go to war over it. But that won't mean the war is averted, only that it will take longer. 

    The main question is just how hot or cold will the war be. So far it's hotter than the Cold War but colder than WW2. 

    In any event -- yeah, we need to be very careful about Chinese equipment. The CCP is an enemy. 


    DAalsethtdknoxwilliamlondonh2pAlex1Nwatto_cobra
     4Likes 0Dislikes 2Informatives
  • Reply 2 of 30
    thttht Posts: 5,905member
    blastdoor said:
    We are either in the early stages of World War 3 (or WW4, if one calls the Cold War WW3), or in the late stages of the pre-war stage. It's akin to the time between Germany's annexation of the Sudetenland in 1938 and the invasion of Poland in 1939. That was a much shorter period of time, but I think it's analogous, in the sense that the writing was clearly on the wall then and it's clearly on the wall now. 

    The modern analog to the invasion of Poland might be when China takes Taiwan. That analogy will break down, though, when the US (acting in the analog role to the UK) decides to just let Taiwan go rather than go to war over it. But that won't mean the war is averted, only that it will take longer. 

    The main question is just how hot or cold will the war be. So far it's hotter than the Cold War but colder than WW2. 

    In any event -- yeah, we need to be very careful about Chinese equipment. The CCP is an enemy. 
    Uh, were you alive during the cold war? 1950s to 1980s?
    llamawilliamlondonwatto_cobra
     3Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 3 of 30
    thttht Posts: 5,905member
    US may ban the most popular home router over Chinese security fears
    Who makes ATT and Comcast broadband/fiber/cable modem+routers?

    I would think they are the most popular home routers and the primary reason why Apple abandoned the WiFi router market.
    watto_cobra
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 4 of 30
    DAalsethdaalseth Posts: 3,276member
    blastdoor said:
    We are either in the early stages of World War 3 (or WW4, if one calls the Cold War WW3), or in the late stages of the pre-war stage. It's akin to the time between Germany's annexation of the Sudetenland in 1938 and the invasion of Poland in 1939. That was a much shorter period of time, but I think it's analogous, in the sense that the writing was clearly on the wall then and it's clearly on the wall now. 

    The modern analog to the invasion of Poland might be when China takes Taiwan. That analogy will break down, though, when the US (acting in the analog role to the UK) decides to just let Taiwan go rather than go to war over it. But that won't mean the war is averted, only that it will take longer. 

    The main question is just how hot or cold will the war be. So far it's hotter than the Cold War but colder than WW2. 

    In any event -- yeah, we need to be very careful about Chinese equipment. The CCP is an enemy. 


    18 years ago I fled the US. At the time I said I felt like it was 1932 and I was an ‘undesirable’ in Germany. So I don’t think your analogy is wrong at all. 
    williamlondonAlex1Nwatto_cobra
     2Likes 0Dislikes 1Informative
  • Reply 5 of 30
    jimh2jimh2 Posts: 685member
    There is zero chance TP-Link routers are used anywhere within the DoD or even the rest of the government. There might be contractors using them though. 

    As for their pricing if it were a crime to price something artificially low o create a monopoly nearly every single Internet company would be guilty when the all but give away products and services and then jack them up once the competition is gone. Too many to mention but Uber and VRBO are two and of course Microsoft with Teams. Microsoft’s whole business model of only a few dollars per user for each of their components lassoes in every company because they make it painful to not go with all of their products. 

    Apple is one of the few consumer companies who can never be accused of undercutting anyone on price. 
    h2pAlex1Nwatto_cobra
     3Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 6 of 30
    ibillibill Posts: 404member
    tht said:
    US may ban the most popular home router over Chinese security fears
    Who makes ATT and Comcast broadband/fiber/cable modem+routers?

    I would think they are the most popular home routers and the primary reason why Apple abandoned the WiFi router market.
    I have AT&T fiber and checked my gateway. It's a Humax BGW320-500. The manual online doesn't say where it's made but most likely China.
    h2pwatto_cobra
     1Like 0Dislikes 1Informative
  • Reply 7 of 30
    thttht Posts: 5,905member
    ibill said:
    tht said:
    US may ban the most popular home router over Chinese security fears
    Who makes ATT and Comcast broadband/fiber/cable modem+routers?

    I would think they are the most popular home routers and the primary reason why Apple abandoned the WiFi router market.
    I have AT&T fiber and checked my gateway. It's a Humax BGW320-500. The manual online doesn't say where it's made but most likely China.
    I have two of those myself. I'm not worried whatsoever with Chinese spying with them. The theoretical spying is basically a fetish or fantasy among geopolitical media-philes.

    I was curious about who has the highest home WiFi router share, and it really has to be combo broadband/WiFi router units. Really hard for me to believe it is a standalone WiFi router. The market has so many white box or badge engineered brands that I'd rather read a report, or preferably a plot. For homes, it's going to be, what, 10:1, maybe 100:1 ratio between combo boxes from the ISP and standalone WiFi routers.
    DAalsethdewmeAlex_VAlex1Nwatto_cobra
     5Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 8 of 30
    AppleZuluapplezulu Posts: 2,395member
    Yet another reason it would be nice if Apple were to reenter the router market.
    appleinsideruserdavAlex1Nwatto_cobra
     4Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 9 of 30
    It’s crazy how entrenched adversaries are in the USA tech ecosystem. 

    The government should get Apple to make Airport routers again in the US and set up a big contract. 
    blastdoordavAlex1Nwatto_cobra
     4Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 10 of 30
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 8,236member
    It's all basically nonsense and definitely has nothing to do with the blanket claim of 'national security'.

    Even the Pentagon still relies on waivers to skirt 'obligations'. 

    https://fortune.com/asia/2024/07/03/pentagon-huawei-ban-national-defense-authorization-act/

    Much of the internet ends up running over vast networks of fibreoptic cables and Huawei has laid (and manages) thousands of km of underwater lines. 

    The so called 'clean networks' that the US tries to promote (while trying to keep a straight face) are also nonsense.

    Huawei offered to licence its entire 5G stack to a US consortium (just to allow it to have something of 'its own' to control) but the US refused.

    The reality is (and always was) that the US sees China as being able to overtake it in key areas and instead of trying to compete with better products and technologies it chooses to try and bludgeon any rival out of the game. 

    That includes 'allies' who used Chinese technology (5G for example) and who refused to play along. Just ask Boris. 

    https://www.ft.com/content/a70f9506-48f1-11ea-aee2-9ddbdc86190d

    https://frontierindia.com/cias-black-ops-led-the-uk-to-drop-huawei-5g-book-reveals/?srsltid=AfmBOopICiosJ_OrLJshH8Hvh5XsjrMdXnaWYFfPhtMlbJg6G-7Q_XcV&utm_content=cmp-true

    The UK was a prime example, seeing its 5G capacity and performance crumple into one of the worst in the EU and costing billions in the process. 

    As a result China has become more self sufficient and is on an accelerated path to further self sufficiency. 

    Erradicating TP-Link from US systems will do nothing to enhance national security and using Cisco might even make things riskier! Maybe that's tongue in cheek.

    The internet is what it is, and has to be, for what we expect of it even if the US (and China too) would like to see it split apart in order to gain more 'control'. 

    I believe Trump once put forward the idea of an 'American 5G' and had to be 'informed' of reality. If that is true (and I believe he suggested Apple create it) I'm sure it wasn't tongue in cheek. 

    tht9secondkox2muthuk_vanalingamAlex1N
     1Like 0Dislikes 3Informatives
  • Reply 11 of 30
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,786member
    It’s crazy how entrenched adversaries are in the USA tech ecosystem. 

    The government should get Apple to make Airport routers again in the US and set up a big contract. 
    What's crazy is that there's a ton of money invested into data harvesting and social media campaigns to manipulate public opinion, yet no one seems to be able to invest money into getting someone to vet the firmware code on routers to confirm these accusations. Given how easy it is for companies to reverse engineer everything being manufactured today for the purpose of cloning it, it should be trivial to reverse engineer routers (and other devices) in order to determine if they really are spying on us. Unless of course perpetuating this "war" is serving an agenda.
    9secondkox2Alex1Nwatto_cobra
     1Like 0Dislikes 2Informatives
  • Reply 12 of 30
    danoxdanox Posts: 3,695member
    It’s crazy how entrenched adversaries are in the USA tech ecosystem. 

    The government should get Apple to make Airport routers again in the US and set up a big contract. 
    What’s crazier is the American man (CEO) in the mirror made it happen…… :smile: 
    9secondkox2watto_cobra
     2Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 13 of 30
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 3,764member
    tht said:
    blastdoor said:
    We are either in the early stages of World War 3 (or WW4, if one calls the Cold War WW3), or in the late stages of the pre-war stage. It's akin to the time between Germany's annexation of the Sudetenland in 1938 and the invasion of Poland in 1939. That was a much shorter period of time, but I think it's analogous, in the sense that the writing was clearly on the wall then and it's clearly on the wall now. 

    The modern analog to the invasion of Poland might be when China takes Taiwan. That analogy will break down, though, when the US (acting in the analog role to the UK) decides to just let Taiwan go rather than go to war over it. But that won't mean the war is averted, only that it will take longer. 

    The main question is just how hot or cold will the war be. So far it's hotter than the Cold War but colder than WW2. 

    In any event -- yeah, we need to be very careful about Chinese equipment. The CCP is an enemy. 
    Uh, were you alive during the cold war? 1950s to 1980s?
    Uh, yes. What’s your point? 
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
     1Like 0Dislikes 1Informative
  • Reply 14 of 30
    thttht Posts: 5,905member
    blastdoor said:
    tht said:
    blastdoor said:
    We are either in the early stages of World War 3 (or WW4, if one calls the Cold War WW3), or in the late stages of the pre-war stage. It's akin to the time between Germany's annexation of the Sudetenland in 1938 and the invasion of Poland in 1939. That was a much shorter period of time, but I think it's analogous, in the sense that the writing was clearly on the wall then and it's clearly on the wall now. 

    The modern analog to the invasion of Poland might be when China takes Taiwan. That analogy will break down, though, when the US (acting in the analog role to the UK) decides to just let Taiwan go rather than go to war over it. But that won't mean the war is averted, only that it will take longer. 

    The main question is just how hot or cold will the war be. So far it's hotter than the Cold War but colder than WW2. 

    In any event -- yeah, we need to be very careful about Chinese equipment. The CCP is an enemy. 
    Uh, were you alive during the cold war? 1950s to 1980s?
    Uh, yes. What’s your point? 
    I bolded. No, there isn’t even a cold war with China let alone it being hotter than the actual Cold War. 

    There is perhaps an economic war, but the USA isn’t participating, so I don’t even you could call USA-China an economic war. 
    muthuk_vanalingamAlex_Vwatto_cobra
     3Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 15 of 30
    blastdoor said:
    We are either in the early stages of World War 3 (or WW4, if one calls the Cold War WW3), or in the late stages of the pre-war stage. It's akin to the time between Germany's annexation of the Sudetenland in 1938 and the invasion of Poland in 1939. That was a much shorter period of time, but I think it's analogous, in the sense that the writing was clearly on the wall then and it's clearly on the wall now. 

    The modern analog to the invasion of Poland might be when China takes Taiwan. That analogy will break down, though, when the US (acting in the analog role to the UK) decides to just let Taiwan go rather than go to war over it. But that won't mean the war is averted, only that it will take longer. 

    The main question is just how hot or cold will the war be. So far it's hotter than the Cold War but colder than WW2. 

    In any event -- yeah, we need to be very careful about Chinese equipment. The CCP is an enemy. 

    Except this time there won’t be a winner. Having a winner will just inevitably create another situation for a world war. The whole Taiwan issue is a direct remnant result from ww2. A world without hegemony will finally find peace.

    watto_cobra
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 16 of 30
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 3,764member
    tht said:
    blastdoor said:
    tht said:
    blastdoor said:
    We are either in the early stages of World War 3 (or WW4, if one calls the Cold War WW3), or in the late stages of the pre-war stage. It's akin to the time between Germany's annexation of the Sudetenland in 1938 and the invasion of Poland in 1939. That was a much shorter period of time, but I think it's analogous, in the sense that the writing was clearly on the wall then and it's clearly on the wall now. 

    The modern analog to the invasion of Poland might be when China takes Taiwan. That analogy will break down, though, when the US (acting in the analog role to the UK) decides to just let Taiwan go rather than go to war over it. But that won't mean the war is averted, only that it will take longer. 

    The main question is just how hot or cold will the war be. So far it's hotter than the Cold War but colder than WW2. 

    In any event -- yeah, we need to be very careful about Chinese equipment. The CCP is an enemy. 
    Uh, were you alive during the cold war? 1950s to 1980s?
    Uh, yes. What’s your point? 
    I bolded. No, there isn’t even a cold war with China let alone it being hotter than the actual Cold War. 

    There is perhaps an economic war, but the USA isn’t participating, so I don’t even you could call USA-China an economic war. 
    The thing about a world war is that it involves multiple countries. China is in an axis with Russia, North Korea, and Iran. Russia’s war against Ukraine is very hot indeed. 
    williamlondon9secondkox2appleinsideruserfreeassociate2Alex1Nwatto_cobra
     5Likes 0Dislikes 1Informative
  • Reply 17 of 30
    thttht Posts: 5,905member
    blastdoor said:
    tht said:
    blastdoor said:
    tht said:
    blastdoor said:
    We are either in the early stages of World War 3 (or WW4, if one calls the Cold War WW3), or in the late stages of the pre-war stage. It's akin to the time between Germany's annexation of the Sudetenland in 1938 and the invasion of Poland in 1939. That was a much shorter period of time, but I think it's analogous, in the sense that the writing was clearly on the wall then and it's clearly on the wall now. 

    The modern analog to the invasion of Poland might be when China takes Taiwan. That analogy will break down, though, when the US (acting in the analog role to the UK) decides to just let Taiwan go rather than go to war over it. But that won't mean the war is averted, only that it will take longer. 

    The main question is just how hot or cold will the war be. So far it's hotter than the Cold War but colder than WW2. 

    In any event -- yeah, we need to be very careful about Chinese equipment. The CCP is an enemy. 
    Uh, were you alive during the cold war? 1950s to 1980s?
    Uh, yes. What’s your point? 
    I bolded. No, there isn’t even a cold war with China let alone it being hotter than the actual Cold War. 

    There is perhaps an economic war, but the USA isn’t participating, so I don’t even you could call USA-China an economic war. 
    The thing about a world war is that it involves multiple countries. China is in an axis with Russia, North Korea, and Iran. Russia’s war against Ukraine is very hot indeed. 
    It's not hotter than USA troops fighting a war. It's not hotter than being under constant nuclear bombing alert. The USA isn't even in a cold war posture, and really isn't doing much. If we were, we would be racing 24x7 to develop the next generation of war technologies like during the actual Cold War.
    watto_cobra
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 18 of 30
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,467member
    avon b7 said:
    It's all basically nonsense and definitely has nothing to do with the blanket claim of 'national security'.

    Even the Pentagon still relies on waivers to skirt 'obligations'. 

    https://fortune.com/asia/2024/07/03/pentagon-huawei-ban-national-defense-authorization-act/

    Much of the internet ends up running over vast networks of fibreoptic cables and Huawei has laid (and manages) thousands of km of underwater lines. 

    The so called 'clean networks' that the US tries to promote (while trying to keep a straight face) are also nonsense.

    Huawei offered to licence its entire 5G stack to a US consortium (just to allow it to have something of 'its own' to control) but the US refused.

    The reality is (and always was) that the US sees China as being able to overtake it in key areas and instead of trying to compete with better products and technologies it chooses to try and bludgeon any rival out of the game. 

    That includes 'allies' who used Chinese technology (5G for example) and who refused to play along. Just ask Boris. 

    https://www.ft.com/content/a70f9506-48f1-11ea-aee2-9ddbdc86190d

    https://frontierindia.com/cias-black-ops-led-the-uk-to-drop-huawei-5g-book-reveals/?srsltid=AfmBOopICiosJ_OrLJshH8Hvh5XsjrMdXnaWYFfPhtMlbJg6G-7Q_XcV&utm_content=cmp-true

    The UK was a prime example, seeing its 5G capacity and performance crumple into one of the worst in the EU and costing billions in the process. 

    As a result China has become more self sufficient and is on an accelerated path to further self sufficiency. 

    Erradicating TP-Link from US systems will do nothing to enhance national security and using Cisco might even make things riskier! Maybe that's tongue in cheek.

    The internet is what it is, and has to be, for what we expect of it even if the US (and China too) would like to see it split apart in order to gain more 'control'. 

    I believe Trump once put forward the idea of an 'American 5G' and had to be 'informed' of reality. If that is true (and I believe he suggested Apple create it) I'm sure it wasn't tongue in cheek. 

    Let's first ask Boris wtf Brexit has accomplished for the UK, as a few billions on 5G upgrades to safeguard UK networks is a rounding error in the overall economic distress of the UK. Then ask how all of that recent Chinese influence has as well affected the UK. 

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cg4zxkel2xeo

    The Chinese embassy has told the UK to "stop creating trouble", after a businessman accused of being a spy for China was banned from the country.

    The revelations about Yang Tengbo, who denies wrongdoing, and his links to Prince Andrew, have sparked renewed calls for the UK to designate China a threat to national security. 

    The issue poses a dilemma for the government, which is hoping to strengthen ties with China to help boost economic growth and tackle shared issues like climate change. 

    In the House of Commons on Monday a number of senior Conservatives called for tougher measures to protect the UK against covert Chinese influence.


    Germany is another country that is looking at, "face eating leopards", as its energy costs have pulled the rug out from under Germany's vaunted industrial base, on top of its overaged worker base. But sure, trade with China is still a thing...

    https://www.aa.com.tr/en/economy/german-auto-industry-s-transformation-could-result-in-190-000-job-losses-by-2035/3378758#:~:text=Inflationary%20pressures%2C%20high%20energy%20costs,large%20portion%20of%20German%20exports.

    BERLIN 

    Labor supply in the German auto industry is expected to fall 6.3% by 2035, according to a recent study by the research institute Prognos commissioned by the German Association of the Automotive Industry (VDA).

    The fall is expected to stem from the transition to electric vehicles (EVs) and an unspecified amount of decline in demand for workers.

    In the 2019-2023 period, a decline of 46,000 jobs in Germany was attributed to the transition to EVs, and if this downward trend continues, the study estimates that the number of jobs in the auto sector could decline by 190,000 by 2035 as Germany has lost its competitiveness due to high tax rates and rising energy prices.

    “A competitive location with the right political framework is needed so that as much added value and employment as possible stays here and new jobs are created in Germany,” the study said.

    The VDA reported on the study after automaker Volkswagen announced Monday that it plans to shut at least three factories in Germany in addition to massive layoffs, sending shockwaves through the German auto sector.

    Inflationary pressures, high energy costs, slow economic growth in Europe, the rise of the far right and competition by China and Tesla plagued German carmakers, whose exports reach $302.6 billion annually, as they make up a large portion of German exports. The sector was put under severe pressure to cut costs to remain competitive while demand was low.






    Alex_VAlex1Nwatto_cobra
     1Like 0Dislikes 2Informatives
  • Reply 19 of 30
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 3,764member
    tht said:
    blastdoor said:
    tht said:
    blastdoor said:
    tht said:
    blastdoor said:
    We are either in the early stages of World War 3 (or WW4, if one calls the Cold War WW3), or in the late stages of the pre-war stage. It's akin to the time between Germany's annexation of the Sudetenland in 1938 and the invasion of Poland in 1939. That was a much shorter period of time, but I think it's analogous, in the sense that the writing was clearly on the wall then and it's clearly on the wall now. 

    The modern analog to the invasion of Poland might be when China takes Taiwan. That analogy will break down, though, when the US (acting in the analog role to the UK) decides to just let Taiwan go rather than go to war over it. But that won't mean the war is averted, only that it will take longer. 

    The main question is just how hot or cold will the war be. So far it's hotter than the Cold War but colder than WW2. 

    In any event -- yeah, we need to be very careful about Chinese equipment. The CCP is an enemy. 
    Uh, were you alive during the cold war? 1950s to 1980s?
    Uh, yes. What’s your point? 
    I bolded. No, there isn’t even a cold war with China let alone it being hotter than the actual Cold War. 

    There is perhaps an economic war, but the USA isn’t participating, so I don’t even you could call USA-China an economic war. 
    The thing about a world war is that it involves multiple countries. China is in an axis with Russia, North Korea, and Iran. Russia’s war against Ukraine is very hot indeed. 
    It's not hotter than USA troops fighting a war. It's not hotter than being under constant nuclear bombing alert. The USA isn't even in a cold war posture, and really isn't doing much. If we were, we would be racing 24x7 to develop the next generation of war technologies like during the actual Cold War.
    If you think it only counts as a war if Americans are dying then I guess ww2 didn’t start until Pearl Harbor 
    williamlondonappleinsideruserAlex1Nwatto_cobra
     3Likes 0Dislikes 1Informative
  • Reply 20 of 30
    eightzeroeightzero Posts: 3,183member
    Bloomberg (Gurman's employer) never retracted their story on The Big Hack. Could all this be real? Sure. Specific evidence? <crickets chirping> <clickbait links triggered> <money flows to fearmongers>

    All that aside, Apple makes nearly all their products in China. Apple's flagship product is "privacy." Now, while that sinks in a bit, a product I'd really like from Apple is a return to making home internet routers/ wifi like the long abandoned Airport - but with an onboard Apple created VPN. Yes, I'd pay a subscription service. 

    While we are on the subject, I'm pondering using a mac mini as a wifi base station. Plug the ethernet port right into the cable modem, then share the internet connection via wifi with a VPN running on it. Anyone else do this? Seems like it has some significant advantages. 
    Alex1Nwatto_cobra
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