Apple's C1 modem breaks no records for speed, but is exceptionally power efficient

AppleInsider · February 27, 2025 1:55PM

The first real-world tests of Apple's C1 modem in the iPhone 16e say that has comparable performance to previous 5G chips, but achieves that with significantly less battery power.

Apple's C1 modem -- image credit: Apple

Apple's $1 billion acquisition of Intel's modem business, plus over five years of development, have paid off. Following stories of Apple finding it hard to develop its own 5G modem for the iPhone -- or even giving up entirely -- the company's C1 is straight out of the Apple Silicon playbook.

Chinese YouTube channel Geekerwan has been testing the C1 in the new iPhone 16e using laboratory conditions and then real-world usage to check out Apple's claims. Significantly, the C1 does not support mmWave 5G as the other models do, but mmWave penetration is low in the US, and lower still everywhere else.

But in the lab and out on subway trains, the iPhone 16e's C1 modem broadly matched the Qualcomm ones in all the other iPhone 16 models for regular 5G speeds.

It just beat them for power efficiency.

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The Geekerwan tests have found that Apple's claims for lower battery use are broadly correct. Apple states that the C1 is 25% more power efficient than previous modems, while the tests usually showed around that figure in ideal conditions.

Specifically, with a high signal strength, the average power consumption was:

0.88 watts for the iPhone 16

0.67 watts for the iPhone 16e

That's a difference of around 24%. For the low signal test, the C1 drew about 17% less power:

0.81 watts for the iPhone 16

0.67 watts for the iPhone 16e

This equated to 7 hour 53 minutes for 5G streaming video on the iPhone 16e, some 53 minutes better than the iPhone 16. The iPhone 16 Pro ran for about an hour less than the iPhone 16e.

It's not possible to determine from these tests how much of those longer streaming times are down to efficiency or the iPhone 16e's larger battery. Apple does not quote battery sizes, but first breakdowns say it has a 3,961 mAh battery, larger than the 3,561 mAh one in the iPhone 16.

But it does clearly show, yet again, how designing its own Apple Silicon does much more than save Apple the licensing fees it pays Qualcomm. And it makes it less than a shock that Apple is reportedly already developing its C2 modem for future devices.

Read on AppleInsider

applepoor · February 27, 2025 2:21PM

Once Apple has their C* (* = some number) modem plus their own Bluetooth chip integrated their iPhones, I doubt the other vendors will be able to match the usable daily time on the new equipment. Great. But my iPhone 16 Pro Max could go nearly two days now with my use.

Amazing improvements coming also in survellience........

danox · February 27, 2025 4:25PM

So if Apple plans on using Apple modems thru-out their devices, they wanted it to be power efficient (low wattage) under their complete control along with being able to perform well out in the wild, in comparison to the Apple Silicon competition be it Intel, Qualcomm, Google, Samsung, Microsoft, Meta, AMD or Nvidia the C1 is just a start, Apple will iterate and incorporate future versions into their iPhones, iPads, laptops, desktop computers, Apple Vision, future Apple glasses and many new Apple devices coming up in the future sounds like a win. Apple seems to play the long game, 25 years and counting…..

The ultimate payoff for Apple is long term.

edited February 27

mpantone · February 27, 2025 5:53PM

This finding was completely expected. It was mentioned elsewhere before.

When Apple creates custom silicon, one main reason is for power efficiency because the vast majority of their hardware products are portable (iPhones, iPads, AirPods, Apple Watch, MacBooks). And power efficiency is a competitive advantage because Apple doesn't sell their chips to other companies.

We have heard Apple repeatedly pound the "performance per watt" mantra, not the least in Johny Srouji's appearance in the original Apple Silicon keynote years ago.

If the performance is in the ballpark of the competition with a power savings that's an outright win. Apple doesn't try to get the top score in some synthetic benchmark, that's not what they are trying to achieve.

Apple will broaden the reach of the C-series cellular modem silicon and put it in many other devices. Something like a minor speed improvement only benefits a handful of power users in a limited number of usage cases under very specific conditions. Something like power savings benefits everyone owning that device.

edited February 27

y2an · February 27, 2025 7:20PM

Great, but how was this measured?

melgross · February 27, 2025 10:04PM

y2an said:

Great, but how was this measured?

Go to Geekerwan and find out.

melgross · February 27, 2025 10:11PM

With all the talk about Apple’s problems with the modem, firstly, I’m surprised they came out with it this year, so early in the year too, and secondly, I’m not surprised that the performance is about the same as Qualcomm’s while being more efficient.

we’ve been reading that Apple’s first modem wouldn’t be out until 2026 and possibly not even until 2027, so this is a nice surprise. Apple can keep secrets after all, it seems. If the performance can keep up with Qualcomm’s in this first version, that shows they’ve overcome the problems they’ve been having. While I’m sure they licensed patents from Qualcomm’s and others, they do have plenty of their own that they bought from Intel and in previous patent auctions. But all patents expire, so this is less of an issue going forwards as Apple obtains more of their own patents for later versions of cellular standards. At some point in the near future, we’ll be finding Qualcomm’s and others licensing FRAND patents from Apple.

im hoping we’ll see their modems in the new line later this year.

mplsp · February 27, 2025 10:22PM

melgross said:

With all the talk about Apple’s problems with the modem, firstly, I’m surprised they came out with it this year, so early in the year too, and secondly, I’m not surprised that the performance is about the same as Qualcomm’s while being more efficient.

we’ve been reading that Apple’s first modem wouldn’t be out until 2026 and possibly not even until 2027, so this is a nice surprise. Apple can keep secrets after all, it seems. If the performance can keep up with Qualcomm’s in this first version, that shows they’ve overcome the problems they’ve been having. While I’m sure they licensed patents from Qualcomm’s and others, they do have plenty of their own that they bought from Intel and in previous patent auctions. But all patents expire, so this is less of an issue going forwards as Apple obtains more of their own patents for later versions of cellular standards. At some point in the near future, we’ll be finding Qualcomm’s and others licensing FRAND patents from Apple.

im hoping we’ll see their modems in the new line later this year.

Agreed - It’d be interesting to see how many patents they had to license and how much the licenses cost. My guess is it’s basically impossible to design a modem without licensing some patents. Presumably the patents are covered under FRAND use agreements (although I wouldn’t trust QC on this.)

Practical performance comparisons outside of a lab environment are virtually impossible to standardize because of the variations inherent to RF signal reception but if the speeds are roughly similar then it means you’ll see more variation from usage conditions than you will from the modem and it’s a win for Apple.

entropys · February 27, 2025 11:22PM

This power consumption comparisons of both phones between high signal and low signal seem unintuitive.
identical for the 16e, less power on low signal compared with high signal for the 16.

daven · March 1, 2025 1:54AM

entropys said:

This power consumption comparisons of both phones between high signal and low signal seem unintuitive.
identical for the 16e, less power on low signal compared with high signal for the 16.

It may be that Apple hasn’t optimized for signal strength yet whereas Qualcomm has done so as they have been doing this for a much longer time. The net result is that for both strong and weak signal strength the C2 is more efficient than the Qualcomm.

melgross · March 3, 2025 7:54PM

The reality is that if their modems are noticeably worse, they will lose a few sales. Most people won’t care. If they are about equal, they won’t lose those few sales, but still, most people won’t care. This is an issue for geeks and these who dream that they are geeks. It gives talking heads in YouTube something to gush about either way. Few people care about what they say.

the issues the 4 had with holding the phone made headlines, but didn’t affect sales. It also turned out that all other phones had the same problem to a greater, or lessor, extent. When Apple went to Intel modems, there were a few edge areas that had problems, but otherwise it wasn’t a real problem. It didn’t really affect sales, but because of the publicity, Apple stopped using them.

i don’t expect a problem here either. Even Qualcomm seems confident that Apple will be producing competitive modems.

applepoor · March 3, 2025 8:17PM

Apple's goal is complete vertical integration. Best example is Ford's Rouge Plant in Detroit where the iron ore from the far end of Lake Superior arrived by ship arrived at one end of the plant and a finished vehicle came out the other end. Little outside products are used to make the finished product.

So Apple is tooling up to make their own modems (which may also be used elsewhere like in their future computers and iPads) and their own versions of the Bluetooth and WiFi chips. Their economies of scale production would increase their new profits over time by not paying others to build the same products.

avon b7 · March 4, 2025 7:23AM

ApplePoor said:

Apple's goal is complete vertical integration. Best example is Ford's Rouge Plant in Detroit where the iron ore from the far end of Lake Superior arrived by ship arrived at one end of the plant and a finished vehicle came out the other end. Little outside products are used to make the finished product.

So Apple is tooling up to make their own modems (which may also be used elsewhere like in their future computers and iPads) and their own versions of the Bluetooth and WiFi chips. Their economies of scale production would increase their new profits over time by not paying others to build the same products.

Complete vertical integration is impossible and wholly undesirable. Apple doesn't have the capacity to produce everything.

Apple is trying to reduce dependencies in some key areas and strategically that makes sense.

Producing a homegrown modem is a good example but let's not forget that it wasn't part of the plan. It was an external failure (Intel).

It looks like the C1 is a 5G modem but 5.5G is already rolling out and 5.5G capable modems are rumoured to be shipping soon.

The rumoured Wi-Fi chipset may be another example of a homegrown effort but Broadcom will probably be playing a part in that.

In either case, they still have to pay Qualcomm, Huawei et al for patent related questions.

melgross · March 5, 2025 6:04PM

avon b7 said:

ApplePoor said:

Apple's goal is complete vertical integration. Best example is Ford's Rouge Plant in Detroit where the iron ore from the far end of Lake Superior arrived by ship arrived at one end of the plant and a finished vehicle came out the other end. Little outside products are used to make the finished product.

So Apple is tooling up to make their own modems (which may also be used elsewhere like in their future computers and iPads) and their own versions of the Bluetooth and WiFi chips. Their economies of scale production would increase their new profits over time by not paying others to build the same products.

Complete vertical integration is impossible and wholly undesirable. Apple doesn't have the capacity to produce everything.

Apple is trying to reduce dependencies in some key areas and strategically that makes sense.

Producing a homegrown modem is a good example but let's not forget that it wasn't part of the plan. It was an external failure (Intel).

It looks like the C1 is a 5G modem but 5.5G is already rolling out and 5.5G capable modems are rumoured to be shipping soon.

The rumoured Wi-Fi chipset may be another example of a homegrown effort but Broadcom will probably be playing a part in that.

In either case, they still have to pay Qualcomm, Huawei et al for patent related questions.

You’re right about Apple not planning to make their own modems. But with Intel having some problems and Apple deciding the bad publicity from using them wasn’t worth it, they likely sighed and said that “We might as well make our own.”. Being that they had lots of experience with complex chips. They probably thought that it wouldn’t be THAT hard. Ten, fifteen years ago, that would have been true, but today’s modems (transceivers) are far more complex. There’s no real question as to whether Apple;s modems will be fully competitive. They’ve got lots of their own patents and they’re getting more daily. All modem manufacturers license from each other. They will be licensing from Apple too.

avon b7 · March 6, 2025 12:43AM

melgross said:

avon b7 said:

ApplePoor said:

Apple's goal is complete vertical integration. Best example is Ford's Rouge Plant in Detroit where the iron ore from the far end of Lake Superior arrived by ship arrived at one end of the plant and a finished vehicle came out the other end. Little outside products are used to make the finished product.

So Apple is tooling up to make their own modems (which may also be used elsewhere like in their future computers and iPads) and their own versions of the Bluetooth and WiFi chips. Their economies of scale production would increase their new profits over time by not paying others to build the same products.

Complete vertical integration is impossible and wholly undesirable. Apple doesn't have the capacity to produce everything.

Apple is trying to reduce dependencies in some key areas and strategically that makes sense.

Producing a homegrown modem is a good example but let's not forget that it wasn't part of the plan. It was an external failure (Intel).

It looks like the C1 is a 5G modem but 5.5G is already rolling out and 5.5G capable modems are rumoured to be shipping soon.

The rumoured Wi-Fi chipset may be another example of a homegrown effort but Broadcom will probably be playing a part in that.

In either case, they still have to pay Qualcomm, Huawei et al for patent related questions.

You’re right about Apple not planning to make their own modems. But with Intel having some problems and Apple deciding the bad publicity from using them wasn’t worth it, they likely sighed and said that “We might as well make our own.”. Being that they had lots of experience with complex chips. They probably thought that it wouldn’t be THAT hard. Ten, fifteen years ago, that would have been true, but today’s modems (transceivers) are far more complex. There’s no real question as to whether Apple;s modems will be fully competitive. They’ve got lots of their own patents and they’re getting more daily. All modem manufacturers license from each other. They will be licensing from Apple too.

Apple only has a small fraction of 5G patents, most of which were acquired with the Intel deal.

Huawei charges a flat fee device charge of $2.50 for 5G and $1.50 for 4G for $0.50c for Wi-Fi 6. For IoT there are different classes but it's around $0.75c. I have no idea what Qualcomm is charging Apple.

Huawei licenced it SEP patents to Apple in 2015.

There is no way Apple will catch Huawei, Qualcomm, Nokia, Ericsson, Samsung etc because they aren't in the same core business (Apple isn't making ICT infrastructure).

Huawei is also using its accumulated know-how (has been for years now) to give it an edge. Way back in 2017 they were comparing things like cell tower hand overs at high speed to that of Apple devices, or the ability to retain a signal in problematic scenarios like tunnels under rivers. More recently (last couple of years) we have seen their phones doing high orbit voice calling (something that Apple claimed was challenging).

Then is their experience in things like metamaterials, MIMO, beam forming and AI for signal stability etc

No matter what patents Apple get, they still have to end up being accepted by standards bodies. Apple has a seat at the table now but that will be for 6G - not 5G.

I know that Apple is working on a research project in Europe with Huawei and others on 6G network sensing. If all goes well, 6G should be here around 2030. Network sensing is going to be an important part of 6G and I believe Huawei has been demoing its advances at MWC this week (in a smart home setting).

The last time I read anything about Huawei/Apple cross-licencing was a few years ago when it was rumoured that Apple was licencing almost 800 patents from Huawei while Huawei was licencing around 40 from Apple.

melgross · March 10, 2025 5:29PM

avon b7 said:

melgross said:

avon b7 said:

ApplePoor said:

Apple's goal is complete vertical integration. Best example is Ford's Rouge Plant in Detroit where the iron ore from the far end of Lake Superior arrived by ship arrived at one end of the plant and a finished vehicle came out the other end. Little outside products are used to make the finished product.

So Apple is tooling up to make their own modems (which may also be used elsewhere like in their future computers and iPads) and their own versions of the Bluetooth and WiFi chips. Their economies of scale production would increase their new profits over time by not paying others to build the same products.

Complete vertical integration is impossible and wholly undesirable. Apple doesn't have the capacity to produce everything.

Apple is trying to reduce dependencies in some key areas and strategically that makes sense.

Producing a homegrown modem is a good example but let's not forget that it wasn't part of the plan. It was an external failure (Intel).

It looks like the C1 is a 5G modem but 5.5G is already rolling out and 5.5G capable modems are rumoured to be shipping soon.

The rumoured Wi-Fi chipset may be another example of a homegrown effort but Broadcom will probably be playing a part in that.

In either case, they still have to pay Qualcomm, Huawei et al for patent related questions.

You’re right about Apple not planning to make their own modems. But with Intel having some problems and Apple deciding the bad publicity from using them wasn’t worth it, they likely sighed and said that “We might as well make our own.”. Being that they had lots of experience with complex chips. They probably thought that it wouldn’t be THAT hard. Ten, fifteen years ago, that would have been true, but today’s modems (transceivers) are far more complex. There’s no real question as to whether Apple;s modems will be fully competitive. They’ve got lots of their own patents and they’re getting more daily. All modem manufacturers license from each other. They will be licensing from Apple too.

Apple only has a small fraction of 5G patents, most of which were acquired with the Intel deal.

Huawei charges a flat fee device charge of $2.50 for 5G and $1.50 for 4G for $0.50c for Wi-Fi 6. For IoT there are different classes but it's around $0.75c. I have no idea what Qualcomm is charging Apple.

Huawei licenced it SEP patents to Apple in 2015.

There is no way Apple will catch Huawei, Qualcomm, Nokia, Ericsson, Samsung etc because they aren't in the same core business (Apple isn't making ICT infrastructure).

Huawei is also using its accumulated know-how (has been for years now) to give it an edge. Way back in 2017 they were comparing things like cell tower hand overs at high speed to that of Apple devices, or the ability to retain a signal in problematic scenarios like tunnels under rivers. More recently (last couple of years) we have seen their phones doing high orbit voice calling (something that Apple claimed was challenging).

Then is their experience in things like metamaterials, MIMO, beam forming and AI for signal stability etc

No matter what patents Apple get, they still have to end up being accepted by standards bodies. Apple has a seat at the table now but that will be for 6G - not 5G.

I know that Apple is working on a research project in Europe with Huawei and others on 6G network sensing. If all goes well, 6G should be here around 2030. Network sensing is going to be an important part of 6G and I believe Huawei has been demoing its advances at MWC this week (in a smart home setting).

The last time I read anything about Huawei/Apple cross-licencing was a few years ago when it was rumoured that Apple was licencing almost 800 patents from Huawei while Huawei was licencing around 40 from Apple.

I think you’re overdoing it. The big gorilla in the business is Qualcomm’s, not Huawei. It doesn’t matter anyway. I wasn’t stating that Apple would be a major player here, just that they would be ine.

avon b7 · March 10, 2025 6:09PM

melgross said:

avon b7 said:

melgross said:

avon b7 said:

ApplePoor said:

Apple's goal is complete vertical integration. Best example is Ford's Rouge Plant in Detroit where the iron ore from the far end of Lake Superior arrived by ship arrived at one end of the plant and a finished vehicle came out the other end. Little outside products are used to make the finished product.

So Apple is tooling up to make their own modems (which may also be used elsewhere like in their future computers and iPads) and their own versions of the Bluetooth and WiFi chips. Their economies of scale production would increase their new profits over time by not paying others to build the same products.

Complete vertical integration is impossible and wholly undesirable. Apple doesn't have the capacity to produce everything.

Apple is trying to reduce dependencies in some key areas and strategically that makes sense.

Producing a homegrown modem is a good example but let's not forget that it wasn't part of the plan. It was an external failure (Intel).

It looks like the C1 is a 5G modem but 5.5G is already rolling out and 5.5G capable modems are rumoured to be shipping soon.

The rumoured Wi-Fi chipset may be another example of a homegrown effort but Broadcom will probably be playing a part in that.

In either case, they still have to pay Qualcomm, Huawei et al for patent related questions.

You’re right about Apple not planning to make their own modems. But with Intel having some problems and Apple deciding the bad publicity from using them wasn’t worth it, they likely sighed and said that “We might as well make our own.”. Being that they had lots of experience with complex chips. They probably thought that it wouldn’t be THAT hard. Ten, fifteen years ago, that would have been true, but today’s modems (transceivers) are far more complex. There’s no real question as to whether Apple;s modems will be fully competitive. They’ve got lots of their own patents and they’re getting more daily. All modem manufacturers license from each other. They will be licensing from Apple too.

Apple only has a small fraction of 5G patents, most of which were acquired with the Intel deal.

Huawei charges a flat fee device charge of $2.50 for 5G and $1.50 for 4G for $0.50c for Wi-Fi 6. For IoT there are different classes but it's around $0.75c. I have no idea what Qualcomm is charging Apple.

Huawei licenced it SEP patents to Apple in 2015.

There is no way Apple will catch Huawei, Qualcomm, Nokia, Ericsson, Samsung etc because they aren't in the same core business (Apple isn't making ICT infrastructure).

Huawei is also using its accumulated know-how (has been for years now) to give it an edge. Way back in 2017 they were comparing things like cell tower hand overs at high speed to that of Apple devices, or the ability to retain a signal in problematic scenarios like tunnels under rivers. More recently (last couple of years) we have seen their phones doing high orbit voice calling (something that Apple claimed was challenging).

Then is their experience in things like metamaterials, MIMO, beam forming and AI for signal stability etc

No matter what patents Apple get, they still have to end up being accepted by standards bodies. Apple has a seat at the table now but that will be for 6G - not 5G.

I know that Apple is working on a research project in Europe with Huawei and others on 6G network sensing. If all goes well, 6G should be here around 2030. Network sensing is going to be an important part of 6G and I believe Huawei has been demoing its advances at MWC this week (in a smart home setting).

The last time I read anything about Huawei/Apple cross-licencing was a few years ago when it was rumoured that Apple was licencing almost 800 patents from Huawei while Huawei was licencing around 40 from Apple.

I think you’re overdoing it. The big gorilla in the business is Qualcomm’s, not Huawei. It doesn’t matter anyway. I wasn’t stating that Apple would be a major player here, just that they would be ine.

To say Huawei is not a 'gorilla' in 5G is crazy. Utterly absurd.

In these cases I usually refer to Huawei, Qualcomm, Ericsson, Samsung etc in the same breath.

It's a dynamic situation.

https://www.lexisnexisip.com/resources/5g-revolution/

https://www.greyb.com/blog/5g-companies/

"Huawei is leading the charge in 5G research and development, holding a considerable number of patents related to this technology. It plays a crucial role in shaping various standards through its involvement with the 3rd Generation Partnership Project (3GPP). The company has made notable advancements in areas like massive MIMO (Multiple Input, Multiple Output), beamforming, network slicing, and 5G NR (New Radio), which are essential for enhancing mobile network efficiency, capacity, and speed.

Huawei supplies vital hardware for building 5G networks, including base stations, small cells, antennas, and core network components. Its solutions are utilized by telecom operators globally, forming the backbone of the 5G rollout. The Huawei 5G Radio Access Network (RAN) is among the most widely adopted systems, with deployments across countries like China, Europe, the Middle East, and parts of Africa.

Beyond infrastructure, Huawei is advancing practical applications of 5G across various industries such as smart cities, autonomous driving, industrial IoT, and healthcare. Its capabilities enable high-speed video streaming as well as virtual and augmented reality applications, positioning Huawei as a crucial player in the digital transformation of industries worldwide."

https://www.techsciresearch.com/blog/who-s-leading-the-5g-charge-a-look-at-the-top-5-global-players/4600.html

Sometimes the 'gorillas' have faced off:

https://www.wired.com/story/huawei-5g-polar-codes-data-breakthrough/

Rankings change every year. There are also different metrics to choose from.

Apple has a bigger patent porfolio now, mostly through acquisitions than through in-house development. There is a very clear reason for that. It had little to no experience in the field and far less accumulated know-how.

However, it remains a fraction of what's out there in patent terms. That was the point.

melgross · March 15, 2025 11:07PM

avon b7 said:

melgross said:

avon b7 said:

melgross said:

avon b7 said:

ApplePoor said:

Apple's goal is complete vertical integration. Best example is Ford's Rouge Plant in Detroit where the iron ore from the far end of Lake Superior arrived by ship arrived at one end of the plant and a finished vehicle came out the other end. Little outside products are used to make the finished product.

So Apple is tooling up to make their own modems (which may also be used elsewhere like in their future computers and iPads) and their own versions of the Bluetooth and WiFi chips. Their economies of scale production would increase their new profits over time by not paying others to build the same products.

Complete vertical integration is impossible and wholly undesirable. Apple doesn't have the capacity to produce everything.

Apple is trying to reduce dependencies in some key areas and strategically that makes sense.

Producing a homegrown modem is a good example but let's not forget that it wasn't part of the plan. It was an external failure (Intel).

It looks like the C1 is a 5G modem but 5.5G is already rolling out and 5.5G capable modems are rumoured to be shipping soon.

The rumoured Wi-Fi chipset may be another example of a homegrown effort but Broadcom will probably be playing a part in that.

In either case, they still have to pay Qualcomm, Huawei et al for patent related questions.

You’re right about Apple not planning to make their own modems. But with Intel having some problems and Apple deciding the bad publicity from using them wasn’t worth it, they likely sighed and said that “We might as well make our own.”. Being that they had lots of experience with complex chips. They probably thought that it wouldn’t be THAT hard. Ten, fifteen years ago, that would have been true, but today’s modems (transceivers) are far more complex. There’s no real question as to whether Apple;s modems will be fully competitive. They’ve got lots of their own patents and they’re getting more daily. All modem manufacturers license from each other. They will be licensing from Apple too.

Apple only has a small fraction of 5G patents, most of which were acquired with the Intel deal.

Huawei charges a flat fee device charge of $2.50 for 5G and $1.50 for 4G for $0.50c for Wi-Fi 6. For IoT there are different classes but it's around $0.75c. I have no idea what Qualcomm is charging Apple.

Huawei licenced it SEP patents to Apple in 2015.

There is no way Apple will catch Huawei, Qualcomm, Nokia, Ericsson, Samsung etc because they aren't in the same core business (Apple isn't making ICT infrastructure).

Huawei is also using its accumulated know-how (has been for years now) to give it an edge. Way back in 2017 they were comparing things like cell tower hand overs at high speed to that of Apple devices, or the ability to retain a signal in problematic scenarios like tunnels under rivers. More recently (last couple of years) we have seen their phones doing high orbit voice calling (something that Apple claimed was challenging).

Then is their experience in things like metamaterials, MIMO, beam forming and AI for signal stability etc

No matter what patents Apple get, they still have to end up being accepted by standards bodies. Apple has a seat at the table now but that will be for 6G - not 5G.

I know that Apple is working on a research project in Europe with Huawei and others on 6G network sensing. If all goes well, 6G should be here around 2030. Network sensing is going to be an important part of 6G and I believe Huawei has been demoing its advances at MWC this week (in a smart home setting).

The last time I read anything about Huawei/Apple cross-licencing was a few years ago when it was rumoured that Apple was licencing almost 800 patents from Huawei while Huawei was licencing around 40 from Apple.

I think you’re overdoing it. The big gorilla in the business is Qualcomm’s, not Huawei. It doesn’t matter anyway. I wasn’t stating that Apple would be a major player here, just that they would be ine.

To say Huawei is not a 'gorilla' in 5G is crazy. Utterly absurd.

In these cases I usually refer to Huawei, Qualcomm, Ericsson, Samsung etc in the same breath.

It's a dynamic situation.

https://www.lexisnexisip.com/resources/5g-revolution/

https://www.greyb.com/blog/5g-companies/

"Huawei is leading the charge in 5G research and development, holding a considerable number of patents related to this technology. It plays a crucial role in shaping various standards through its involvement with the 3rd Generation Partnership Project (3GPP). The company has made notable advancements in areas like massive MIMO (Multiple Input, Multiple Output), beamforming, network slicing, and 5G NR (New Radio), which are essential for enhancing mobile network efficiency, capacity, and speed.

Huawei supplies vital hardware for building 5G networks, including base stations, small cells, antennas, and core network components. Its solutions are utilized by telecom operators globally, forming the backbone of the 5G rollout. The Huawei 5G Radio Access Network (RAN) is among the most widely adopted systems, with deployments across countries like China, Europe, the Middle East, and parts of Africa.

Beyond infrastructure, Huawei is advancing practical applications of 5G across various industries such as smart cities, autonomous driving, industrial IoT, and healthcare. Its capabilities enable high-speed video streaming as well as virtual and augmented reality applications, positioning Huawei as a crucial player in the digital transformation of industries worldwide."

https://www.techsciresearch.com/blog/who-s-leading-the-5g-charge-a-look-at-the-top-5-global-players/4600.html

Sometimes the 'gorillas' have faced off:

https://www.wired.com/story/huawei-5g-polar-codes-data-breakthrough/

Rankings change every year. There are also different metrics to choose from.

Apple has a bigger patent porfolio now, mostly through acquisitions than through in-house development. There is a very clear reason for that. It had little to no experience in the field and far less accumulated know-how.

However, it remains a fraction of what's out there in patent terms. That was the point.

Sure. But sages in the j duster also said that Apple couldn’t build a phone. They couldn’t make SoCs and that they couldn’t make a lot of things they ended up excelling in. There’s no reason why they can’t do the same with modems. You always underestimate them.

Apple's C1 modem breaks no records for speed, but is exceptionally power efficient

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