Mastercard may be in for a fight to stay Apple Card network provider

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There's been a quiet battle between banks to be the next Apple Card issuer as Goldman Sachs moves on, but another battle is brewing between networks to take over from Mastercard.

Hand holding two credit cards, one with Visa logo visible, on a blurred background with partial view of indoor plants and electronics.
Apple Card could go with Visa for payment network



Apple is set to move Apple Card from Goldman Sachs at some point soon, but Apple could switch payment networks in the process. Goldman Sachs previously suggested it wanted to rid itself of Apple Card in 12 to 15 months as of November 2023 -- so the move is past due.

Before the card issuer changes, however, Apple may choose to sign a new contract with a different payment network. The current network is Mastercard, but according to a report from The Wall Street Journal, Visa and American Express are fighting for the position.

Visa has even reportedly offered Apple about $100 million to take over as the payment network. That's a large sum it has reserved for its biggest clients, like Costco.

American Express is also reportedly attempting to take over as both issuer and network for Apple Card. The Amex CEO has previously seemed uninterested in Apple Card, but throwing in the ability to be the network provider may sweeten the deal.

Apple can't move from Mastercard until that portion of the contract expires sometime in 2026. However, even if Goldman Sachs finds a new issuer, it'll take time to make the shift and may be able to include some negotiation into who the new network provider is.

Nothing official has been said publicly, and there is still no sign of what company will take over from Goldman Sachs or when. It could be several months before it all shakes out, but if Goldman Sachs is so pressed to be free of Apple, expect moves to be made soon.



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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 17
    ApplePoorapplepoor Posts: 365member
    I have had a Platinum level Amex card since 1968. (Before it became Amex it was Patterson Travel Service) The number of places that accept the card has dwindled every year. It is our travel card for airline tickets and hotels and is the card to have in an emergency. The long term relationship is a plus in our credit rating.

    We also have CostCo City Bank and Apple Pay that I carry daily. We usually get more than $1k back annually for each of these accounts.

    We have Wells Fargo accounts at a local branch used for cash access with our debit cards and handling the "Old Folks" accounts.

    Amex worked okay for CostCo for us and was still accepted in the UK CostCo last time we were over there.

    So having the three top Financial flavors in hand is okay with us. Really have no preference which way Apple goes as it will be transparent to us, the users.
    edited April 1
    jibwilliamlondonyyzguy
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  • Reply 2 of 17
    sbdudesbdude Posts: 306member
    Amex would be a terrible move if Apple hopes to profit off non-Apple transactions. Amex does 38% of Visa's transactions by value, and less than 4% by volume. There's no way Amex could make up the difference, even compared to Mastercard. When Costco walked away from Amex, there was good reason.
    mike1williamlondon
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  • Reply 3 of 17
    AmEx lost the plot years ago. They thought they had a business, turns out it was Costco keeping them afloat. You can’t pay with AmEx in most places, nobody wants that stupid card. I hope Apple switches to Visa so I can use it at Costco.
    muthuk_vanalingamjibnubusapple4thewinravnorodom
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  • Reply 4 of 17
    macguimacgui Posts: 2,547member
    I hope Apple switches to Visa so I can use it at Costco.
    Same. This would be a pretty big win for me. That would make the Apple Card accepted everywhere I want to be.
    jibapple4thewinravnorodom
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  • Reply 5 of 17
    Xedxed Posts: 3,103member
    I understand the more recent historical limitations of Amex, but that's not really the case anymore.  It seems Amex is growing on all fronts, like tripling its worldwide acceptable since 2017 and today being accepted by 99% of merchants that accept card payments. This is due in no small part to the OptBlue program they launched circa 2016 that , "allows eligible small businesses to accept AmEx cards through one of several third-party payment processors that partner with the issuer and set their own swipe fee rates."

    Personally, I really don't care what multinational payment network Apple picks. I have several MC, Visa, and Amex cards. The only one I don't have is Discover. It'll all work out. If you have a local vendor that still hasn't signed up to accept to Amex I would wager that will change down the road if Apple coverts to Amex if that merchant has already been seeing a lot of Apple Card business in the recent years.

    PS: This isn't the first time Apple has switched multinational payment networks in a Wallet card they control. The Apple Pay Cash card originally used Discover and now it uses Visa. I think this switched about 5 years ago and it wasn't everyone at once. I remember being able to go into Wallet and change it from Discover to Visa.
    mike1
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  • Reply 6 of 17
    nubusnubus Posts: 779member
    Xed said:
    I understand the more recent historical limitations of Amex, but that's not really the case anymore.  It seems Amex is growing on all fronts, like tripling its worldwide acceptable since 2017 and today being accepted by 99% of merchants that accept card payments. 
    The 99% is only true in the U.S.

    Amex holds 1-2% of the market in Europe and is far from universally accepted. Personal cards from Visa and Mastercard have no processing fees while Amex is a 3rd party card under EU regulation allowing merchants to add a processing fee. The fee is often 4% making Amex more expensive. Apple can't use Amex if the plan is to expand beyond U.S.
    williamlondon
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  • Reply 7 of 17
    mike1mike1 Posts: 3,473member
    AmEx lost the plot years ago. They thought they had a business, turns out it was Costco keeping them afloat. You can’t pay with AmEx in most places, nobody wants that stupid card. I hope Apple switches to Visa so I can use it at Costco.
    I don’t think I’ve ever been to an establishment that didn’t accept Amex. 
    paisleydiscowilliamlondonJFC_PA
     3Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 8 of 17
    Because I shop at Costco, I have to pay cash or have my family member pay due to BofA giving me a Mastercard. Hopefully, Apple goes with Visa since I have been to other places (and some online storefronts) that don’t take Amex either. 
    williamlondonravnorodom
     1Like 1Dislike 0Informatives
  • Reply 9 of 17
    mpantonempantone Posts: 2,370member
    For sure AMEX acceptance at merchants has grown over the years especially in the past ten years. While it is easy to pick out a specific exception of a large retailer like Costco, I've noticed that I can use an AMEX with very few exceptions especially with smaller merchants. Ten years ago -- especially when travelling abroad -- this was not the case.

    AMEX acceptance has also accelerated in post-pandemic international travel. Anyone who owns an AMEX card has other plastic as well so it's not like it's much of a barrier these days. If Apple and American Express negotiate to some sort of agreement I don't expect that to much impact on most purchases for most people.

    I already have a VISA card that gives me back 2% everywhere and another one that gives me back 3% at a merchant category of my choice (I picked restaurants). So if Apple switched from MC to AMEX as payment processors, it really won't affect me. I have been an AMEX cardholder since the Nineties anyhow.
    edited April 2
    williamlondon
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  • Reply 10 of 17
    cloudycloudy Posts: 5member
    Goldman Sachs has done a lousy job with this card. I've never had so little credit on a card and I have great credit and never missed a payment. I had to convince them to at least raise the credit so that I could  buy an Apple M2 MacAir at the time. I wanted a larger SSD but had to settle for less because with tax is exceeded the minor amount they raised it by. Now I want to buy a VisionPro but can't be bothered to ask them again to raise my credit again. I've never had to ask a bank twice to increase the credit amount because the amount of credit extended is usually a five figure amount.  I know that if Apple would work with AMEX or Chase then the card wouldn't be crippled the way this card is for me at this point.
    williamlondon
     0Likes 1Dislike 0Informatives
  • Reply 11 of 17
    larryjwlarryjw Posts: 1,038member
    Many retails establishments in my area refuse to accept AMEX cards. Apple Card would become useless to me if they went for AMEX
    nubuswilliamlondonravnorodom
     1Like 1Dislike 1Informative
  • Reply 12 of 17
    Xedxed Posts: 3,103member
    cloudy said:
    Goldman Sachs has done a lousy job with this card. I've never had so little credit on a card and I have great credit and never missed a payment. I had to convince them to at least raise the credit so that I could  buy an Apple M2 MacAir at the time. I wanted a larger SSD but had to settle for less because with tax is exceeded the minor amount they raised it by. Now I want to buy a VisionPro but can't be bothered to ask them again to raise my credit again. I've never had to ask a bank twice to increase the credit amount because the amount of credit extended is usually a five figure amount.  I know that if Apple would work with AMEX or Chase then the card wouldn't be crippled the way this card is for me at this point.
    That's interesting because have a nearly $40k credit limit on mine. I forget what I started at but I'm sure it wasn't the highest nor lowest being mentioned when the card first came out. I do put my start date into my Calendar, with an annual reminder to ask to increase the credit limit. A quick iMessage text that starts within the card info in Wallet makes for a quick credit limit increase that has never first required me to unlock my credit first.
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 13 of 17
    Xedxed Posts: 3,103member

    Because I shop at Costco, I have to pay cash or have my family member pay due to BofA giving me a Mastercard. Hopefully, Apple goes with Visa since I have been to other places (and some online storefronts) that don’t take Amex either. 
    Because I shop at Costco, I have a Costco Visa card that easily pays for itself in any of the first 3 categories.. In fact, I use it for fuel, restaurants, shopping at Costco, and  sometimes travel if that's better than, say, the airline's CC or Amex Travel.

    • 5% on gas at Costco and 4% on other eligible gas and EV charging, 5% and 4% earn is on a combined $7,000 spend per year, then 1% thereafter
    • 3% on restaurants and eligible travel, including Costco Travel
    • 2% on all other purchases from Costco and Costco.com
    • 1% on all other purchases
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 14 of 17
    mpantonempantone Posts: 2,370member
    There's one advantage that American Express might have. I'm not sure how much influence the corporate parent has in other countries but there might be a possibility that Apple Card could be made available to cardholders in other countries.

    Right now Apple Card is still a US-only card. Apple has never found a suitable issuing bank elsewhere to partner with. For sure the local regulations might make it prohibitive in some countries and Apple's list of demands might be too onerous for some market's lenders.

    Of course, Americans overrepresent in terms of number of credit card transactions and total volume but there's still a very large percentage of prosperous countries who don't have Apple Card. I'd guesstimate that 10 countries on this planet account for 98% of the world's credit card transactions (in total sales and number of transactions).

    That might be why American Express is still in the running. For sure, Apple would know how much is coming from Costco transactions and would have to weigh the loss of that specific revenue stream versus the possibility of expanding abroad.

    It's important to reiterate that there are other cards that provide 2% or 3% cash back (the VISA issued by my brokerage offers 2% back for all merchants).
    edited April 2
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  • Reply 15 of 17
    yyzguyyyzguy Posts: 55member
    ApplePoor said:
    I have had a Platinum level Amex card since 1968. (Before it became Amex it was Patterson Travel Service) The number of places that accept the card has dwindled every year. It is our travel card for airline tickets and hotels and is the card to have in an emergency. The long term relationship is a plus in our credit rating.

    We also have CostCo City Bank and Apple Pay that I carry daily. We usually get more than $1k back annually for each of these accounts.

    We have Wells Fargo accounts at a local branch used for cash access with our debit cards and handling the "Old Folks" accounts.

    Amex worked okay for CostCo for us and was still accepted in the UK CostCo last time we were over there.

    So having the three top Financial flavors in hand is okay with us. Really have no preference which way Apple goes as it will be transparent to us, the users.
    Wow, you really seem proud of yourself.  Please, tell us more.  What brand of toilet paper do you use?
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 16 of 17
    Xed said:

    Because I shop at Costco, I have to pay cash or have my family member pay due to BofA giving me a Mastercard. Hopefully, Apple goes with Visa since I have been to other places (and some online storefronts) that don’t take Amex either. 
    Because I shop at Costco, I have a Costco Visa card that easily pays for itself in any of the first 3 categories.. In fact, I use it for fuel, restaurants, shopping at Costco, and  sometimes travel if that's better than, say, the airline's CC or Amex Travel.

    • 5% on gas at Costco and 4% on other eligible gas and EV charging, 5% and 4% earn is on a combined $7,000 spend per year, then 1% thereafter
    • 3% on restaurants and eligible travel, including Costco Travel
    • 2% on all other purchases from Costco and Costco.com
    • 1% on all other purchases
    Well yes I don’t have a membership myself since we go as a family but yeah understandable 
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 17 of 17
    Xedxed Posts: 3,103member
    MC and Amex are much closer to each other in usage than MC is to Visa.

    https://www.wsj.com/finance/banking/visa-wanted-a-vast-empire-first-it-had-to-beat-back-its-foes-3b3067f3
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
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