So many misconceptions about manufacturing in the United States. FYI: the manufacturing output of the United States has more than doubled since the 1980s. But there are 1/3 as many jobs in manufacturing as there were in the 1980s. Why? Automation. That's the real issue when it comes to manufacturing jobs. The United States focuses on manufacturing that is heavily automated.
Also, companies didn't move the non-automated manufacturing out of the country due to U.S. workers being too expensive. They did it because the lower wage workers in other countries created higher profit levels. It was profit motivated and not viability motivated.
It’s not a “blink.” It has been mentioned a lot here on ai before the tariffs came on. Apple would get an exemption. I’ve personally posted this a few times.
Smart people do smart things. It’s why cook preemptively met with the president prior to the election and why the admin is letting some of the fine tuning show now. It’s always shock and awe to rile up the immoveable players. Then settles into the details. It’s why you hear the phrase/torle “art of the deal” being so talked about lately.
As I’ve BEEN saying, Apple willl be fine.
And the delusional cult continues on unabated, Dear Leader must not be questioned.
Meanwhile in reality Trump has shown how much of a lame duck president he is and U.S. is much weaker on the world stage than it was a week ago.
And because you pointed out in an other thread that you woefully uninformed on trade, let me help you out. What you and Trumpty Dumpty seem to be missing is Trump can't protect Apple or any other company from China. If China decides to start targeting U.S. companies like Apple or Tesla and just boots them from the country then they are absolutely screwed. The U.S. doesn't have the advanced manufacturing capabilities of China and that is something that would take at least a decade to build out. China does almost all of the world's refining of rare earth minerals. Replacing that capability will take a decade to do. China holds way more cards in this trade war than just tariffs. Turmpty Dumpty has brought a squirt gun to a gun fight.
Maybe, just maybe, ponder the potential consequences of Trumps actions rather than blindly cheerleading for him
Just to continue the rare earth theme. China has recently selected seven rare earths that are essential to high tech manufacturing and made them exportable only under licence (a non-monetary tariff countermeasure) . We will learn over the coming days if the US will be cut off completely or partially from these rare earths.
And I’ll take Donald trump and Bessent any day over some dude on the internet named “stabitha.”
But seriously. There are so many ways to look at this. It definitely exposes predispositions. If you already hate Tru p, you’ll work to find the pessimistic angle. If you already like him, you’ll work to find the positive angle. And if you’re just a simple common sense guy, you’ll work to can appreciate what he’s trying to do while retaining the ability to see where it may go wrong - but also retain tje ability to see where it may go right. So far, for common sense folks, tje goal is admirable, results are mixed with the short time in action, and the pivot seems to preserve both the American tech company as well as the inherits of the action to begin with. The downside of all of it is of course the “short term pain” of stock volatility and posdible higher prices. But that was always a known quantity. Not some surprise. But the long term gain of fair trade is what the goal is. And it’s certainly at the very least worth the attempt. If it wasn’t trump, it would be someone else. The status quo is not sustainable without ceding our economy and leading status in the world. As one of the few truly free places in the world, this matters. We are all her for all things apple. They’re a great company. Another reason their great is that they stand for human rights, privacy, security, etc. on top of making the best stuff on earth. But take away the foundation of freedom upon which they operate and things go south. We see a microcosm in the EU and China. Hopefully, with the bold moves being made on the big stage, that’s as far as it goes.
If Europe decides to bond together and increase production and trade amongst themselves, they no longer need the US for 90% of the stuff and will have a much larger market than they would ever have had with the US. In reality they need very little US products because most of those are low quality and don't adhere to European standards and regulations. (cars, food) They trade with the US because of allyship. That's going to go out the window fast now. Europe has a reliance on US tech companies, but work is underway to reduce that. BRICS countries removing reliance on the dollar will absolutely hurt the US for generations. A next president is not going to be able to correct this. The damage done to the US in the past months will take decades to recover, if ever. There is no short term pain, only long term pain. There is a lot of gain for those in power though, but that's a very small group.
It seems quite an argument, you are probably right if the status quo continues. America will be gone with $36T & counting owed….it’s sad but nobody is talking about it here but blaming a President who’s trying to do something about it, no suggested solutions either, just whine and whine. It doesn’t bother me if Apple is raising prices cause I can afford them, but the rest of younger Americans has no future for this $T we owed, unfortunately they will be the one paying for It.
Smart people do smart things. It’s why cook preemptively met with the president prior to the election and why the admin is letting some of the fine tuning show now.
This is a point I agree with. Cook was smart to meet with Trump and do what he has to in the interests of Apple. That's what a CEO is supposed to do.
I don't like Trump. I didn't vote for him and I think he's the worst president in history. But it's counterproductive to demand people like Cook cut off their own nose to spite Trump's face. People who oppose Trump need to be smarter than that. They need to focus on taking steps that actually advance their goals, not steps that are just cathartic or symbolic.
Here’s something the MAGA crowd doesn’t seem to know is coming. This 90-day delay… they think countries will use this time to kiss the ring. Yes, they will send their emissaries to Washington, but back home they will be working feverishly to cut trade deals and form alliances to reduce their dependence on America and find new sources of needed goods and new markets for theirs.
100% agree. Also, China sees what causes Trump to blink -- crashing stock markets and rising yields on the 10 year treasury.
Trump has greatly weakened the US. We might be starting to see that in the 10 year yield and the dollar.
We might also see it in a national security crisis. I'll say again -- Taiwan is in extreme danger now. I seriously doubt the US will be able to rally countries to break a blockade or defend Taiwan. I'm not even sure that the idiots running national security can competently lead an effort to break a blockade or defend Taiwan.
All US assets are now much riskier than they were before November of 2024. And there's no quick/easy fix, because it's not just Trump -- it's that the US is a country that would elect Trump, twice. We have revealed ourselves to be far less stable than what was conventionally believed. We need serious systematic reforms that will greatly reduce the probability of another Trump-like president running amok. The best shot at such reform today is Dems taking over 60 seats in the senate (along with House + WH) and pushing through a deluge of reforms with the same speed that DOGE burned everything down. Or to use another analogy, it would need to be something like FDR's first 100 days.
Dems should be working on a "Project 2029" so that they have their playbook ready to run.
And I’ll take Donald trump and Bessent any day over some dude on the internet named “stabitha.”
But seriously. There are so many ways to look at this. It definitely exposes predispositions. If you already hate Tru p, you’ll work to find the pessimistic angle. If you already like him, you’ll work to find the positive angle. And if you’re just a simple common sense guy, you’ll work to can appreciate what he’s trying to do while retaining the ability to see where it may go wrong - but also retain tje ability to see where it may go right. So far, for common sense folks, tje goal is admirable, results are mixed with the short time in action, and the pivot seems to preserve both the American tech company as well as the inherits of the action to begin with. The downside of all of it is of course the “short term pain” of stock volatility and posdible higher prices. But that was always a known quantity. Not some surprise. But the long term gain of fair trade is what the goal is. And it’s certainly at the very least worth the attempt. If it wasn’t trump, it would be someone else. The status quo is not sustainable without ceding our economy and leading status in the world. As one of the few truly free places in the world, this matters. We are all her for all things apple. They’re a great company. Another reason their great is that they stand for human rights, privacy, security, etc. on top of making the best stuff on earth. But take away the foundation of freedom upon which they operate and things go south. We see a microcosm in the EU and China. Hopefully, with the bold moves being made on the big stage, that’s as far as it goes.
If Europe decides to bond together and increase production and trade amongst themselves, they no longer need the US for 90% of the stuff and will have a much larger market than they would ever have had with the US. In reality they need very little US products because most of those are low quality and don't adhere to European standards and regulations. (cars, food) They trade with the US because of allyship. That's going to go out the window fast now. Europe has a reliance on US tech companies, but work is underway to reduce that. BRICS countries removing reliance on the dollar will absolutely hurt the US for generations. A next president is not going to be able to correct this. The damage done to the US in the past months will take decades to recover, if ever. There is no short term pain, only long term pain. There is a lot of gain for those in power though, but that's a very small group.
It seems quite an argument, you are probably right if the status quo continues. America will be gone with $36T & counting owed….it’s sad but nobody is talking about it here but blaming a President who’s trying to do something about it, no suggested solutions either, just whine and whine. It doesn’t bother me if Apple is raising prices cause I can afford them, but the rest of younger Americans has no future for this $T we owed, unfortunately they will be the one paying for It.
Oh puh-leaze!
Deficits and debt only matter when there's a Democrat in the White House. This has been proven over and over again in the last 30 years or so.
Clinton handed over to Bush Jr. a surplus and what did we get from the GOP?
Obama, inherited a total sh!t show and it took him time but managed to bring back the economy and handed it over to Trump 45.
Biden inherited another sh!t show and in 4 years post Covid, brought back the economy and handed it over to Trump 47.
The GOP in the meantime has been giving us tax cuts that benefit mostly the 0.1%. And now with tax cuts we also get tariffs across the board. Not only that, we also get war mongering with friend and foe while pretending to be anti-war. Oh yeah, we're also getting "legalized" corruption, while gutting all government agencies that check all that.
He's trying to do something about it? LOL LOL LOL. He's only enriching himself and his cronies.
And I’ll take Donald trump and Bessent any day over some dude on the internet named “stabitha.”
But seriously. There are so many ways to look at this. It definitely exposes predispositions. If you already hate Tru p, you’ll work to find the pessimistic angle. If you already like him, you’ll work to find the positive angle. And if you’re just a simple common sense guy, you’ll work to can appreciate what he’s trying to do while retaining the ability to see where it may go wrong - but also retain tje ability to see where it may go right. So far, for common sense folks, tje goal is admirable, results are mixed with the short time in action, and the pivot seems to preserve both the American tech company as well as the inherits of the action to begin with. The downside of all of it is of course the “short term pain” of stock volatility and posdible higher prices. But that was always a known quantity. Not some surprise. But the long term gain of fair trade is what the goal is. And it’s certainly at the very least worth the attempt. If it wasn’t trump, it would be someone else. The status quo is not sustainable without ceding our economy and leading status in the world. As one of the few truly free places in the world, this matters. We are all her for all things apple. They’re a great company. Another reason their great is that they stand for human rights, privacy, security, etc. on top of making the best stuff on earth. But take away the foundation of freedom upon which they operate and things go south. We see a microcosm in the EU and China. Hopefully, with the bold moves being made on the big stage, that’s as far as it goes.
If Europe decides to bond together and increase production and trade amongst themselves, they no longer need the US for 90% of the stuff and will have a much larger market than they would ever have had with the US. In reality they need very little US products because most of those are low quality and don't adhere to European standards and regulations. (cars, food) They trade with the US because of allyship. That's going to go out the window fast now. Europe has a reliance on US tech companies, but work is underway to reduce that. BRICS countries removing reliance on the dollar will absolutely hurt the US for generations. A next president is not going to be able to correct this. The damage done to the US in the past months will take decades to recover, if ever. There is no short term pain, only long term pain. There is a lot of gain for those in power though, but that's a very small group.
It seems quite an argument, you are probably right if the status quo continues. America will be gone with $36T & counting owed….it’s sad but nobody is talking about it here but blaming a President who’s trying to do something about it, no suggested solutions either, just whine and whine. It doesn’t bother me if Apple is raising prices cause I can afford them, but the rest of younger Americans has no future for this $T we owed, unfortunately they will be the one paying for It.
If you think this president is trying to lower the national debt then you are not paying attention to what the president is doing. In his first term he increased the debt by 8.18 trillion dollars. The is the single largest increase in a single presidential term. Currently he is a little over two months into his second term and his spending has outpaced his predecessor. So he is currently on track to have either the second largest increase or he may break his own record for the largest. If President Trump is trying to address the national debt he is failing spectacularly at doing so.
9secondkox2 said: The status quo is not sustainable without ceding our economy and leading status in the world.
Really? Headline story from The Economist, Oct 2024: "The American Economy: The Envy of the World." Subhead:
"The American economy has left other rich nations in the dust." THAT was our economy's story six months ago. Record high stock market, strong GDP growth, near record low unemployment, no recession is sight and inflation steadily easing per the benchmarks set by the Fed. If by "status quo," you mean Trump's insanity that not only tanked the stock market, but rocked the market for US Treasuries as of yesterday--yes, I totally agree, THAT is not sustainable! Do you have ANY idea what happens if T-bills are no longer seen as such a safe haven and we have to start paying higher interest rates on them to attract buyers (as was happening yesterday) to finance our national debt and deficit spending? It's game over, my friend. Point, set, match--the US is screwed. But Trump and his staff are so incompetent, they hadn't thought that through and didn't see it coming until it happened.
And here's the thing: I would have no argument had Trump made a reasoned case to get better trade agreements with a tightly targeted set of countries. And then set about negotiations to make that happen, retaliating with tariffs if necessary. China would certainly lead that list. But what did he do? First, he prematurely tore up and refused to abide by the USMCA agreement that HE, himself, negotiated as a supposedly "much better deal" than NAFTA--in reality, it barely changed NAFTA, but whatever--and then he proceeded to knife both of our closest and most important trading partners in the back, no negotiations. But that was just the appetizer. Trump's main course was declaring a trade war on the entire world at once, including uninhabited islands, putting America in the untenable negotiating position of suddenly being alone as the global supervillain. If your goal is to drive better trade deals, and especially if your goal is to force China to the table, there couldn't be a more dumb and moronic way to go about that than turning the whole world against you at once, And that's exactly what Trump did.
Here in NYC, I've had a lifelong front row seat to Trump and none of this surprises me. This is who he has always been. An equal opportunity con man and grifter who has screwed over blue collar workers, investors, students to his bogus university, banks and even donors to his now legally shuttered Donald J. Trump Foundation charity. What kind of self-proclaimed multi-billionaire steals and spends charity donations on himself? It's mind-boggling to me that the aggrieved working class sees him as their savior, when he just sees them as an endless source of grift, shamelessly selling them literally anything from gold lamé high-tops to bibles to meme coins to watches, etc, etc. Like any good con man--and he may well be the best who ever lived--he talks a good game and sounds like he's on your side while he's turning you upside down and shaking the last coins from your pocket. Most if not all of the high profile billionaires in this country have built businesses of real significance of one type or another that have made many people rich and given many, many more people than that good jobs and comfortable lives. Trump has built nothing and done nothing to spread the wealth he has enjoyed, devoting his life only to the enrichment of himself and his family at the expense of everyone else he has screwed along the way.
Trump may be volatile but he is not stupid and loves to negotiate hard (Art of the Deal). He also loves Apple so he will not allow them to be harmed in the long run.
And I’ll take Donald trump and Bessent any day over some dude on the internet named “stabitha.”
But seriously. There are so many ways to look at this. It definitely exposes predispositions. If you already hate Tru p, you’ll work to find the pessimistic angle. If you already like him, you’ll work to find the positive angle. And if you’re just a simple common sense guy, you’ll work to can appreciate what he’s trying to do while retaining the ability to see where it may go wrong - but also retain tje ability to see where it may go right. So far, for common sense folks, tje goal is admirable, results are mixed with the short time in action, and the pivot seems to preserve both the American tech company as well as the inherits of the action to begin with. The downside of all of it is of course the “short term pain” of stock volatility and posdible higher prices. But that was always a known quantity. Not some surprise. But the long term gain of fair trade is what the goal is. And it’s certainly at the very least worth the attempt. If it wasn’t trump, it would be someone else. The status quo is not sustainable without ceding our economy and leading status in the world. As one of the few truly free places in the world, this matters. We are all her for all things apple. They’re a great company. Another reason their great is that they stand for human rights, privacy, security, etc. on top of making the best stuff on earth. But take away the foundation of freedom upon which they operate and things go south. We see a microcosm in the EU and China. Hopefully, with the bold moves being made on the big stage, that’s as far as it goes.
If Europe decides to bond together and increase production and trade amongst themselves, they no longer need the US for 90% of the stuff and will have a much larger market than they would ever have had with the US. In reality they need very little US products because most of those are low quality and don't adhere to European standards and regulations. (cars, food) They trade with the US because of allyship. That's going to go out the window fast now. Europe has a reliance on US tech companies, but work is underway to reduce that. BRICS countries removing reliance on the dollar will absolutely hurt the US for generations. A next president is not going to be able to correct this. The damage done to the US in the past months will take decades to recover, if ever. There is no short term pain, only long term pain. There is a lot of gain for those in power though, but that's a very small group.
It seems quite an argument, you are probably right if the status quo continues. America will be gone with $36T & counting owed….it’s sad but nobody is talking about it here but blaming a President who’s trying to do something about it, no suggested solutions either, just whine and whine. It doesn’t bother me if Apple is raising prices cause I can afford them, but the rest of younger Americans has no future for this $T we owed, unfortunately they will be the one paying for It.
One of the many untruths that has been oozing out directly or by inference is that trade deficit is the same thing as federal deficits. They are not. Imposing broad, worldwide tariffs under the guise of reducing trade deficits will not reduce the federal deficit or debt. In fact, it has the opposite effect. Trump's chaos was causing instability in the bond market to the point that a complete meltdown was feared, which is presumably what finally caused Trump to "blink." How does that affect the federal debt?
Guess what kids! Treasury bonds are the federal debt! Trump's chaos was making even Treasury Bonds questionable, causing a sell off, pushing up yields and interest rates. That increases the federal debt as the US government must may more interest. If the bond market collapses and becomes wholly unstable, the US debt shoots up, and investment markets worldwide begin to collapse as any investment becomes risky.
So once again, no, Trump does not have a strategy beyond the chaos, and he did not just "win" at something. Thankfully, he uncharacteristically backed down, but for only 90 days or you know, whenever he changes his mind again. None of this is how anyone who understands any of this at all would pursue goals of reducing federal debt, reducing trade deficits, or increasing US manufacturing. There are no CEOs out there looking at the last two weeks thinking, o.k., now is finally the time to invest millions or billions of dollars on new production facilities in the United States.
Tim Cook was indeed smart to reach out to Trump early and flatter him by letting him believe that Apple's already planned investments in the US were Trump's idea. (Note that Cook's wisdom here surely comes from his extensive experience working with leadership in non-democratic countries to gain favorable position. This is not how it's supposed to work in a democracy.) Now, even with favorable treatment, Apple's capital investment strategies in the US and worldwide become more difficult, because instability increases risk.
Many iPhones are assembled in China, but iPhones are assembled in countries other than China as well. Apple can continue to ship iPhones from India (and elsewhere ex-China) to warehouses in America at the 10% tariffs rate during the 90-day pause. America can get the India (and elsewhere ex-China) assembled iPhones, while the China assembled iPhones can go to the rest of the world.
India won't let it work like that. The phones assembled in India are for the Indian market. Indian laws (PLI, BIS, CRS) financially punish companies who import phones instead of making them in India. So Apple would run headlong into Indian tariffs while trying to avoid Chinese tariffs.
if you’re just a simple common sense guy, you’ll work to can appreciate what he’s trying to do while retaining the ability to see where it may go wrong
You don't know what he's trying to do any more than anyone else. Well-renowned economists are scratching their heads trying to figure out what he's doing, and I strongly doubt you know more about the subject than they do. Plus, he specifically said this was "not a negotiation" and he would "stay the course", neither of which proved to be true. As for "where it may go wrong", LOL, we've already seen where it went wrong. He tanked the bond market, which was going to cause a worldwide financial meltdown. That's according to that liberal rag "Fortune", BTW.
Trump may be volatile but he is not stupid and loves to negotiate hard (Art of the Deal). He also loves Apple so he will not allow them to be harmed in the long run.
1) No, he's pretty stupid.
2) No, he's proven countless times that he can't negotiate. All he's ever done is say how good he is but the proof tells a very different story.
3) No, he doesn't love anything except for himself and it's really weird that you would say he loves Apple.
4) You're claiming that he'll hurt Apple in the short run?
FWIW as of this morning the markets seem to have recovered from their irrational exuberance of yesterday. Cooler heads have prevailed and they are down big time. Trump’s pause has failed.
FWIW as of this morning the markets seem to have recovered from their irrational exuberance of yesterday. Cooler heads have prevailed and they are down big time. Trump’s pause has failed.
It's because he upped the tariff amount for China to 145% because he is apparently hell bent on a recession.
Trump may be volatile but he is not stupid and loves to negotiate hard (Art of the Deal). He also loves Apple so he will not allow them to be harmed in the long run.
1) he actually is stupid. The man is dumber than a box of rocks. Just listen to his speech patterns and his pathetic 200 words vocabulary. He is an uneducated imbecile who has shoen over and over a complete lack of understanding or knowledge of history and basic economics.
2) He didn’t write “the art of the deal” it was ghostwritten. The man has no frickin clue how to run a business. Do you realize how incompetent one has to be to bankrupt a casino? He did it. 6 times. Before he was able to monetize his stay in the White House he was on the brink of bankruptcy again. 3) he loves Apple? The man used to have a POS android phone (and probably had no clue how to use it) and is of a generation where “businessmen” of his standing don’t use a computer, they have a secretary for that, who prints out their emails. He doesn’t love Apple because he doesn’t love anything or anyone, not even his own wives or children. He only loves himself. The man is a sociopath, a traitor, a convicted felon, and a piece of chit.
Many iPhones are assembled in China, but iPhones are assembled in countries other than China as well. Apple can continue to ship iPhones from India (and elsewhere ex-China) to warehouses in America at the 10% tariffs rate during the 90-day pause. America can get the India (and elsewhere ex-China) assembled iPhones, while the China assembled iPhones can go to the rest of the world.
India won't let it work like that. The phones assembled in India are for the Indian market. Indian laws (PLI, BIS, CRS) financially punish companies who import phones instead of making them in India. So Apple would run headlong into Indian tariffs while trying to avoid Chinese tariffs.
Really?
Apple airlifts 600 tons of iPhones from India 'to beat' Trump tariffs, sources say
NEW DELHI, April 10 (Reuters) - Tech giant Apple chartered cargo flights to ferry 600 tons of iPhones, or as many as 1.5 million, to the United States from India, after it stepped up production there in an effort to beat President Donald Trump's tariffs, sources told Reuters.
The details of the push provide an insight into the U.S. smartphone company's private strategy to navigate around the Trump tariffs and build up inventory of its popular iPhones in the United States, one of its biggest markets.
Apple may have had to pay India some additional fees but India allowed it. Maybe India also realizes what a dangerous bully-child Trump is. His art of the deal is paying less if anything at all than he previously agreed on. Contracts and legal obligation mean nothing to him. He learned this from dear old dad and had practiced it ever since. And MAGAs OK that. Until it's them in his crosshairs.
Many iPhones are assembled in China, but iPhones are assembled in countries other than China as well. Apple can continue to ship iPhones from India (and elsewhere ex-China) to warehouses in America at the 10% tariffs rate during the 90-day pause. America can get the India (and elsewhere ex-China) assembled iPhones, while the China assembled iPhones can go to the rest of the world.
It's not "many" iPhones assembled in China--it is the vast, vast majority. China has 80% of Apple's iPhone production capacity and 90% of all iPhones are assembled there. India, compared to China, remains a much more minor player at present and there simply is no significant amount of excess production capacity sitting idle there that Apple can simply turn on. Adding that capacity is a years-long process, but even if Apple could wave a wand and do it very quickly, why would they? Within 90 days or less, Trump could heavily tariff India again if it doesn't agree to what will likely be untenable trade terms that he'll offer and then Apple will be faced with the same problem. This is the business-killing issue with Trump--there's no rhyme or reason or discernible strategy to what he's doing, no predictability whatsoever, and businesses can't make long-term decisions and investments when they're flying blind.
It’s not a “blink.” It has been mentioned a lot here on ai before the tariffs came on. Apple would get an exemption. I’ve personally posted this a few times.
Smart people do smart things. It’s why cook preemptively met with the president prior to the election and why the admin is letting some of the fine tuning show now. It’s always shock and awe to rile up the immoveable players. Then settles into the details. It’s why you hear the phrase/torle “art of the deal” being so talked about lately.
As I’ve BEEN saying, Apple willl be fine.
Meanwhile...Dow down 1135 points Thursday. Do you have your Liberation Day garden yet? Are you tired of winning yet--don't worry it'll only hurt for a few more years.
The actual writer of that AOD book, ghost writer Tony Schwartz has said "[Trump] is incapable of reading a book, much less writing one".
"Countries are lining up to negotiate": Nonsense, why would they? They can just wait him out. Many nations yesterday dumped US Government bonds (the interest bearing IOU the US issues to use your money to run the country). These sell-offs represent a lack of confidence in the US economy, and are bills the US now has to pay back, but this is a problem for T* because the the economy and tax dollars have shrunk, there hasn't been any increase in tariff monies received because it's on again, off again, on-off, on-off. So it's all a big deficit builder. Genius to be sure.
It's not 4D Chess, it's not even checkers. It's House of Morons the Musical (picture Nero and his harp) playing with trillions of other people's (YOUR) money.
Further, NO there are NO "billions" coming in from China or anywhere else--that's the biggest, fattest, most repeated lie because tariffs are NOTHING BUT A SELF-IMPOSED TAX ON YOUR OWN PEOPLE, NOT ON SOMEONE ELSE OR SOMEWHERE ELSE. I've had to write many checks to the US Customs and Border Patrol for tariffs on raw materials we imported because nobody else makes them and never have. They don't get a nickel from China.
Could we avoid this tax by building manufacturing facilities, and in some case complete industries, that make the things we import? Maybe some, sometimes completely impossible, and if possible, it would take at least two decades to get some of that done. Even if we buy into the T* steampunk image of what a modern economy needs--sweaty men hammering away on steel anvils, that's not where we're heading. Here's the kicker: we're almost at the level of what economists consider "full employment"--so who is going to do the work in these factories, much less be adequately educated, skilled and trained? Oh yeah, immigrants... wait a minute. Never mind. Since we have simultaneously lost trillions of dollars in an eye blink, who has the funds to sink into a facility that might not be functioning or profitable for decades. The government--no, that's not going to happen. And we can't profitably import many skilled workers or automated equipment (125% tariff on Chinese goods)
T*'s tariff math is based on a pseudo-mathermatical formula that has no basis in economic theory or trade law, and is based on retail prices the consumer pays vs. the actual import prices, a roughly 4X error (i.e. the tariffs are 4X higher than they should be). The real formula Trump used was a miscalculation of the work of UofC economist Bret Neiman. T*s tariff is basically "how much we buy from them minus how much they buy from us, and divide by two (express as a percent)". No Greek letters necessary.
Wonder how those penguins got so deeply in debt to us.
India won't let it work like that. The phones assembled in India are for the Indian market. ... So Apple would run headlong into Indian tariffs while trying to avoid Chinese tariffs.
India is happy to do exports. Phones produced in India have been sold in Europe (makes sense when looking at the map). The big question is if they match the U.S. model. There is no mmWave and limited Wifi bands outside U.S.
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Also, companies didn't move the non-automated manufacturing out of the country due to U.S. workers being too expensive. They did it because the lower wage workers in other countries created higher profit levels. It was profit motivated and not viability motivated.
This is a point I agree with. Cook was smart to meet with Trump and do what he has to in the interests of Apple. That's what a CEO is supposed to do.
I don't like Trump. I didn't vote for him and I think he's the worst president in history. But it's counterproductive to demand people like Cook cut off their own nose to spite Trump's face. People who oppose Trump need to be smarter than that. They need to focus on taking steps that actually advance their goals, not steps that are just cathartic or symbolic.
100% agree. Also, China sees what causes Trump to blink -- crashing stock markets and rising yields on the 10 year treasury.
Trump has greatly weakened the US. We might be starting to see that in the 10 year yield and the dollar.
We might also see it in a national security crisis. I'll say again -- Taiwan is in extreme danger now. I seriously doubt the US will be able to rally countries to break a blockade or defend Taiwan. I'm not even sure that the idiots running national security can competently lead an effort to break a blockade or defend Taiwan.
All US assets are now much riskier than they were before November of 2024. And there's no quick/easy fix, because it's not just Trump -- it's that the US is a country that would elect Trump, twice. We have revealed ourselves to be far less stable than what was conventionally believed. We need serious systematic reforms that will greatly reduce the probability of another Trump-like president running amok. The best shot at such reform today is Dems taking over 60 seats in the senate (along with House + WH) and pushing through a deluge of reforms with the same speed that DOGE burned everything down. Or to use another analogy, it would need to be something like FDR's first 100 days.
Dems should be working on a "Project 2029" so that they have their playbook ready to run.
And here's the thing: I would have no argument had Trump made a reasoned case to get better trade agreements with a tightly targeted set of countries. And then set about negotiations to make that happen, retaliating with tariffs if necessary. China would certainly lead that list. But what did he do? First, he prematurely tore up and refused to abide by the USMCA agreement that HE, himself, negotiated as a supposedly "much better deal" than NAFTA--in reality, it barely changed NAFTA, but whatever--and then he proceeded to knife both of our closest and most important trading partners in the back, no negotiations. But that was just the appetizer. Trump's main course was declaring a trade war on the entire world at once, including uninhabited islands, putting America in the untenable negotiating position of suddenly being alone as the global supervillain. If your goal is to drive better trade deals, and especially if your goal is to force China to the table, there couldn't be a more dumb and moronic way to go about that than turning the whole world against you at once, And that's exactly what Trump did.
Here in NYC, I've had a lifelong front row seat to Trump and none of this surprises me. This is who he has always been. An equal opportunity con man and grifter who has screwed over blue collar workers, investors, students to his bogus university, banks and even donors to his now legally shuttered Donald J. Trump Foundation charity. What kind of self-proclaimed multi-billionaire steals and spends charity donations on himself? It's mind-boggling to me that the aggrieved working class sees him as their savior, when he just sees them as an endless source of grift, shamelessly selling them literally anything from gold lamé high-tops to bibles to meme coins to watches, etc, etc. Like any good con man--and he may well be the best who ever lived--he talks a good game and sounds like he's on your side while he's turning you upside down and shaking the last coins from your pocket. Most if not all of the high profile billionaires in this country have built businesses of real significance of one type or another that have made many people rich and given many, many more people than that good jobs and comfortable lives. Trump has built nothing and done nothing to spread the wealth he has enjoyed, devoting his life only to the enrichment of himself and his family at the expense of everyone else he has screwed along the way.
Guess what kids! Treasury bonds are the federal debt! Trump's chaos was making even Treasury Bonds questionable, causing a sell off, pushing up yields and interest rates. That increases the federal debt as the US government must may more interest. If the bond market collapses and becomes wholly unstable, the US debt shoots up, and investment markets worldwide begin to collapse as any investment becomes risky.
So once again, no, Trump does not have a strategy beyond the chaos, and he did not just "win" at something. Thankfully, he uncharacteristically backed down, but for only 90 days or you know, whenever he changes his mind again. None of this is how anyone who understands any of this at all would pursue goals of reducing federal debt, reducing trade deficits, or increasing US manufacturing. There are no CEOs out there looking at the last two weeks thinking, o.k., now is finally the time to invest millions or billions of dollars on new production facilities in the United States.
You don't know what he's trying to do any more than anyone else. Well-renowned economists are scratching their heads trying to figure out what he's doing, and I strongly doubt you know more about the subject than they do. Plus, he specifically said this was "not a negotiation" and he would "stay the course", neither of which proved to be true. As for "where it may go wrong", LOL, we've already seen where it went wrong. He tanked the bond market, which was going to cause a worldwide financial meltdown. That's according to that liberal rag "Fortune", BTW.
2) No, he's proven countless times that he can't negotiate. All he's ever done is say how good he is but the proof tells a very different story.
3) No, he doesn't love anything except for himself and it's really weird that you would say he loves Apple.
4) You're claiming that he'll hurt Apple in the short run?
3) he loves Apple? The man used to have a POS android phone (and probably had no clue how to use it) and is of a generation where “businessmen” of his standing don’t use a computer, they have a secretary for that, who prints out their emails. He doesn’t love Apple because he doesn’t love anything or anyone, not even his own wives or children. He only loves himself.
The man is a sociopath, a traitor, a convicted felon, and a piece of chit.
Apple airlifts 600 tons of iPhones from India 'to beat' Trump tariffs, sources say
https://www.reuters.com/technology/apple-airlifts-600-tons-iphones-india-to-beat-trump-tariffs-sources-say-2025-04-10/
Apple may have had to pay India some additional fees but India allowed it. Maybe India also realizes what a dangerous bully-child Trump is. His art of the deal is paying less if anything at all than he previously agreed on. Contracts and legal obligation mean nothing to him. He learned this from dear old dad and had practiced it ever since. And MAGAs OK that. Until it's them in his crosshairs.
The actual writer of that AOD book, ghost writer Tony Schwartz has said "[Trump] is incapable of reading a book, much less writing one".
"Countries are lining up to negotiate": Nonsense, why would they? They can just wait him out. Many nations yesterday dumped US Government bonds (the interest bearing IOU the US issues to use your money to run the country). These sell-offs represent a lack of confidence in the US economy, and are bills the US now has to pay back, but this is a problem for T* because the the economy and tax dollars have shrunk, there hasn't been any increase in tariff monies received because it's on again, off again, on-off, on-off. So it's all a big deficit builder. Genius to be sure.
It's not 4D Chess, it's not even checkers. It's House of Morons the Musical (picture Nero and his harp) playing with trillions of other people's (YOUR) money.
Further, NO there are NO "billions" coming in from China or anywhere else--that's the biggest, fattest, most repeated lie because tariffs are NOTHING BUT A SELF-IMPOSED TAX ON YOUR OWN PEOPLE, NOT ON SOMEONE ELSE OR SOMEWHERE ELSE. I've had to write many checks to the US Customs and Border Patrol for tariffs on raw materials we imported because nobody else makes them and never have. They don't get a nickel from China.
Could we avoid this tax by building manufacturing facilities, and in some case complete industries, that make the things we import? Maybe some, sometimes completely impossible, and if possible, it would take at least two decades to get some of that done. Even if we buy into the T* steampunk image of what a modern economy needs--sweaty men hammering away on steel anvils, that's not where we're heading. Here's the kicker: we're almost at the level of what economists consider "full employment"--so who is going to do the work in these factories, much less be adequately educated, skilled and trained? Oh yeah, immigrants... wait a minute. Never mind. Since we have simultaneously lost trillions of dollars in an eye blink, who has the funds to sink into a facility that might not be functioning or profitable for decades. The government--no, that's not going to happen. And we can't profitably import many skilled workers or automated equipment (125% tariff on Chinese goods)
T*'s tariff math is based on a pseudo-mathermatical formula that has no basis in economic theory or trade law, and is based on retail prices the consumer pays vs. the actual import prices, a roughly 4X error (i.e. the tariffs are 4X higher than they should be). The real formula Trump used was a miscalculation of the work of UofC economist Bret Neiman. T*s tariff is basically "how much we buy from them minus how much they buy from us, and divide by two (express as a percent)". No Greek letters necessary.
Wonder how those penguins got so deeply in debt to us.