I respect the advice of a ten years kids, if the question is does he want to have a plastic surgery of the ears for example. But i will not respect his advice if he refuse vaccination. At ten years i think you do not have all the elements to judge if a vaccination is necessary.
right, it was not about plastic surgery but about a vaccination that would have done no use for me. i still haven't got it. and there is still no valid reasoning for making me get it. at least for one of those vaccines i refused.
1) The fact is you are taking a group who are at a small risk of complications and putting them at a HUGE risk. Let me say one more time the lasting effect of the chickenpox vaccine has not be proven and adults are notorious for NOT GETTING BOOSTERS. There is a small, small chance that a child with chickenpox will even need to go the doctor. An adult will end up in the hospital. It simply does not make sense to me.
2) What the heck does the immunzation of my children in good old USA have to do with Third World children?! Nowhere have I even romotely advocated abollishing immunuizations. I do, however, strongly advocate thinking for yourself and doing some research before blindly letting your child be injected with . . . well, you get the point. Right?!
Just thought I'd provide a different perspective. Wasn't attacking you in the least. Isn't that what this thread was supposed to be for? By the way, vaccines are meant to protect the community, not just your kid.
I started this thread in hopes that people would come forth with different perspectives and INFORMATION to back it up. With the exception of PowerDoc, who has been quite helpful, most of what I have seen is hyperbole, hysterics, and haughtiness (couldn't resist).
Actually, this thread has been filled with great responses. I hope you're not acknowledging the ones which conform only with your opinion.
I also have a small pox scar. Do you?
The reason I don't have a smallpox scar...is thanks to the diligent docs who made sure you had all your shots when you were a kid.
A large recent study (Pediatr Infect Dis J 2002 Jun;21(6):555-61) found that six years after vaccination 98-100% of children still had antibodies. Obviously we'll need to wait until those kids grow up to be sure, but based on our knowledge of how immunity works, it's very likely that adult immunity will be similar or superior to that from the disease.
Incidentally, the reason why boosters are required is that your memory immune cells need to see their antigen every now and then to stay alive. Which makes perfect sense biologically - why waste the effort to maintain cells to fight something you never see? Many diseases for which we vaccinate are no longer circulating in the US, and so to keep those memory cells going for decades, you need boosters. "Natural" immunity works by precisely the same mechanism as vaccine-induced immunity, and so declines in just the same way if your body never again sees the disease.
Actually, if you want to trade anecdotes, I'm living proof that the disease is not nearly as good for immunity as you think. I had chicken pox twice - once as a small child, and once at age 15. I hope that the second bout was enough to give me long-lasting immunity, but there are certainly no guarantees.
Anyway, it's silly to trade anecdotes and half-truths. Go to PubMed and look up the latest literature yourself. You can view most abstracts for free. Another recent study (J Infect Dis. 2002 Jul 1;186(1):102-5) looked a largish outbreak in PA that included some break-through cases in immunized children. They concluded that immunization may be more effective if you wait until the child is 14 months old. If that result holds up, it might be advice worth taking.
Actually, I have an uncle who had it THREE times. But he is the exception. Another friend had it as an adult, and yes, he spent about three weeks in the hospital.
Chicken pox is largely theoretical for me because, like I said, most of my kids have had it. (I still haven't changed my mind about it either, but thanks for the link. ) I just used it to illustrate the importance of investigating and asking questions. The Polio and DTP are also prime examples because they DID carry risk and that risk HAD to be addressed and was. Thus IPV and DTaP have become the norm--and more recently than many of you might realize.
This can degenerate to the "chicken pox" only thread or it can expand to more broad concerns. Such as a discussion I read, in an economics cost/benefit micro/macro context that vaccination does not have to be 100% compliant to be effective. In fact, the marginal benefits of succuring 100% compliance are far outweighed by the cost, both in side effects and cost. I might have to dig that up if I still have it.
Oh, and MilesWho, I just asked mentioned the smallpox thing to gauge your age.
Comments
Originally posted by Powerdoc
I respect the advice of a ten years kids, if the question is does he want to have a plastic surgery of the ears for example. But i will not respect his advice if he refuse vaccination. At ten years i think you do not have all the elements to judge if a vaccination is necessary.
right, it was not about plastic surgery but about a vaccination that would have done no use for me. i still haven't got it. and there is still no valid reasoning for making me get it. at least for one of those vaccines i refused.
1) The fact is you are taking a group who are at a small risk of complications and putting them at a HUGE risk. Let me say one more time the lasting effect of the chickenpox vaccine has not be proven and adults are notorious for NOT GETTING BOOSTERS. There is a small, small chance that a child with chickenpox will even need to go the doctor. An adult will end up in the hospital. It simply does not make sense to me.
2) What the heck does the immunzation of my children in good old USA have to do with Third World children?! Nowhere have I even romotely advocated abollishing immunuizations. I do, however, strongly advocate thinking for yourself and doing some research before blindly letting your child be injected with . . . well, you get the point. Right?!
Just thought I'd provide a different perspective. Wasn't attacking you in the least. Isn't that what this thread was supposed to be for? By the way, vaccines are meant to protect the community, not just your kid.
I started this thread in hopes that people would come forth with different perspectives and INFORMATION to back it up. With the exception of PowerDoc, who has been quite helpful, most of what I have seen is hyperbole, hysterics, and haughtiness (couldn't resist).
Actually, this thread has been filled with great responses. I hope you're not acknowledging the ones which conform only with your opinion.
I also have a small pox scar. Do you?
The reason I don't have a smallpox scar...is thanks to the diligent docs who made sure you had all your shots when you were a kid.
Originally posted by Towel
A large recent study (Pediatr Infect Dis J 2002 Jun;21(6):555-61) found that six years after vaccination 98-100% of children still had antibodies. Obviously we'll need to wait until those kids grow up to be sure, but based on our knowledge of how immunity works, it's very likely that adult immunity will be similar or superior to that from the disease.
Incidentally, the reason why boosters are required is that your memory immune cells need to see their antigen every now and then to stay alive. Which makes perfect sense biologically - why waste the effort to maintain cells to fight something you never see? Many diseases for which we vaccinate are no longer circulating in the US, and so to keep those memory cells going for decades, you need boosters. "Natural" immunity works by precisely the same mechanism as vaccine-induced immunity, and so declines in just the same way if your body never again sees the disease.
Actually, if you want to trade anecdotes, I'm living proof that the disease is not nearly as good for immunity as you think. I had chicken pox twice - once as a small child, and once at age 15. I hope that the second bout was enough to give me long-lasting immunity, but there are certainly no guarantees.
Anyway, it's silly to trade anecdotes and half-truths. Go to PubMed and look up the latest literature yourself. You can view most abstracts for free. Another recent study (J Infect Dis. 2002 Jul 1;186(1):102-5) looked a largish outbreak in PA that included some break-through cases in immunized children. They concluded that immunization may be more effective if you wait until the child is 14 months old. If that result holds up, it might be advice worth taking.
Actually, I have an uncle who had it THREE times. But he is the exception. Another friend had it as an adult, and yes, he spent about three weeks in the hospital.
Chicken pox is largely theoretical for me because, like I said, most of my kids have had it. (I still haven't changed my mind about it either, but thanks for the link.
This can degenerate to the "chicken pox" only thread or it can expand to more broad concerns. Such as a discussion I read, in an economics cost/benefit micro/macro context that vaccination does not have to be 100% compliant to be effective. In fact, the marginal benefits of succuring 100% compliance are far outweighed by the cost, both in side effects and cost. I might have to dig that up if I still have it.
Oh, and MilesWho, I just asked mentioned the smallpox thing to gauge your age.