Could this have been the catalyst for the price drop?
Quote:
Intel slashes Centrino prices by up to 30%
By Tony Smith
Posted: 02/06/2003 at 13:11 GMT
Intel yesterday introduced a 1.7GHz Pentium M processor, as expected. It also cut the prices of the rest of the range by up to 34 per cent, which we'd suspected but had no firm evidence for.
Intel also introduced a Low-voltage 1.2GHz Pentium M and a 1GHz Ultra-low Voltage part, again as we reported last week.
The new chips are priced at $694, $341 and $319, respectively, in batches of 1000 and bundling the 855 chipset and Pro Wireless 2100 mini-PCI 802.11b card. So says Intel's press release, but its official price list, has the 1.7GHz part down at $725, $372/$367 (depending on whether you choose an 855 with integrated graphics or not) and $350/$345.
According to the price list, the processors alone cost $637, $284 and $262.
At the same time, Intel has cut the price of existing Pentium Ms. The 1.6GHz plus other Centrino chips now costs $511 and $506 (with integrated graphics and without), a cut of 30 per cent from $725 and $720. The equivalent 1.5GHz packages fall from $511 and $506 to $382 and $377, both a reduction of 25 per cent. The $382 and $377 1.4GHz packages fall 14 per cent to $329 and $324. The 1.3GHz versions stay where they are, at $297 and $292.
On there own, the processors prices have fallen even more steeply. The 1.GHz chip fell 34 per cent from $637 to $423. The 1.5GHz part went from $423 to $294, a cut of 31 per cent, and the 1.4GHz part dropped 18 per cent to $241 from $294. The price of the 1.3GHz Pentium M remains unchanged at $209.
In a nod toward last week's highly publicised VPN bug, Intel promised "updated networking software that delivers additional support for security features designed to protect information transmitted while connecting to networks using wireless technology". The software in question is Intel Pro Network Connection, which will be upgraded to version 7.1. The software works with the Centrino platform's Pro Wireless 2100 802.11b card.
Intel is adding support for the Wi-Fi Alliance's Wi-Fi Protected Access (WPA) security scheme. WPA is a cut-down version of the yet-to-be-ratified 802.11x WLAN security protocol. It will also add Cisco LEAP and CKIP security support, a move geared toward improving the Centrino platform's appeal to corporates. ®
JYD, not exactly. The 970 won't be seen in a PB for at least 12 months after the PM's, maybe longer, maybe sooner, but not this year at any rate, and to the chagrin of many, expect Mot to deliver faster low power G4's for the PB. Apple really doesn't have another choice right now.
What the price drops mean is that the iBook will get cheaper still. Expect the next major revision of the iBook to drop a large screen (14" mebbe widescreen) intot he 899-999 range, and a loaded version with the same screen size to go for no more than 1299.
iBooks exist to be CHEAP, not neccessarily fast, to remain competitive they have to continue to drop in price, and they will -- current PB price structures virtually guarantee it.
JYD, not exactly. The 970 won't be seen in a PB for at least 12 months after the PM's, maybe longer, maybe sooner, but not this year at any rate, and to the chagrin of many, expect Mot to deliver faster low power G4's for the PB. Apple really doesn't have another choice right now.
Any info to back this up? Or maybe at least explaining why you think this way?
I say Apple does have another choice, the 970! The 1.2GHz 970 chip runs cooler than a 1GHz G4. So Apple could easily use those in laptops right now. And the 1.4GHz 970 only runs a bit hotter than the 1GHz G4
[email protected] dissipates 42W (just for reference, not that it would go into a laptop)
So I could see the 1.4GHz part slipping into a 17" perhaps (or 1.2 if that is too hot). The 15" gets a 1.2GHz, and 1GHz (if the 970s clock that slow). And the 12" gets either a 1GHz G4, or a 1GHz 970. Then once the move to 90nm is done (which from all sources is supposed to be quick), the 970 will become even more laptop friendly.
Don't get your hopes up for the 7457. I am still sticking by my bet that we will never see it in an Apple product. Plus, with only a 200MHz bus (not DDR even, that wasn't until 7457-RM!), would you really want a a faster G4 on that? What does the mythical 7457 offer besides a die shrink to 130nm? Why do people still want to grasp on to this chip?
I am also willing to bet that the iBook (if it is still around) will never see a G4. Rather it will move to GOBI (which is an enhanced 750 I believe), and then the 850 (SIMD, rapid-io, super G3).
Any info to back this up? Or maybe at least explaining why you think this way?
I say Apple does have another choice, the 970! The 1.2GHz 970 chip runs cooler than a 1GHz G4. So Apple could easily use those in laptops right now. And the 1.4GHz 970 only runs a bit hotter than the 1GHz G4
[email protected] dissipates 42W (just for reference, not that it would go into a laptop)
nahh...the 21.3W 1ghz g4 is desktop...these are not in powerbooks right now...its more like 15W or lower...
i could see 1ghz 970...which is a vast improvement over any g4...in a powerbook..but thats not ok for the typical customer....no matter how they market it...they have to make it different from 1ghz...i think
1ghz=1ghz for the average customer
BUT...i dont care...put an 800mhz 970 in it...and i would buy it immeadietly
nahh...the 21.3W 1ghz g4 is desktop...these are not in powerbooks right now...its more like 15W or lower...
So the desktop and the laptop have different G4s? Are you sure?
I know the older ones were different (7440 vs 7450 or whatever), but i thoguht the most recent laptops had basicly the desktop chips (7455?) in there (I could and probably am way off here...)
I still think it makes sense for Apple to go 970 in Powerbooks. Even if it's only 1-1.2 GHz, they can count on a low power variant of the 970 within a year (after all this is IBM, and I've heard things). Drop a G4 in the iBook for a year, then migrate the iBook to 970s as well.
Technically, it would suffice to use 1 GHz 970s for the powerbooks, and 1 GHz G4s for the iBooks, but we know Apple won't do this because of the marketing problems it would create.
It's not an easy decision to make, at least not with the info we have. IF Moto could deliver a low power G4 with a FSB that supports DDR, and IF they could scale it over 1 GHz, and IF it were cheaper than the 970, yeah, it would make sense to use it in iBooks. But I simply don't see Moto rising to the challenge.
Regardless of Moto, I'm fairly convinced that at least 2 Powerbooks will be getting 970s this year. It's the "year of the laptop", and the 15"-17" are screaming out for the PPC 970.
Quite possibly, that's why I'm letting them repair it rather than just asking for my money back.
What happens is that in "closed lid mode" the internal fan never comes on, and I mean "never". Pop the lid up and it comes on straight away and stays on for 15-20 minutes - by which time the machine is safe to touch again. :-)
Quote:
Originally posted by Stoo
does the fan come on when it is closed?
No, that seems to be the crux of the problem. I prefer to use it with an external screen when I get the chance, I don't really like monitor spanning when you've got two completely different screens and they're at disparate heights too.
Apple will very quickly migrate their entire laptop line to the Powerbooks after the 970 is released,
If you mean that they're all going to be called "PowerBooks", then I think you're wrong. There will still be a iBook/PowerBook division. If you mean that iBooks will get G4s, then yes, probably, but PowerBooks will have 970/980 by then or quite a bit faster G4s - so I don't thing that's going to happen until 2004.
I still think it makes sense for Apple to go 970 in Powerbooks.
Of course it does, if they have 970s at all, if those run cool enough to go in a portable, if they have a new motherboard to put it on, if they've done all the necessary testing etc...
That's a lot of ifs.
But help them out, join the Apple engineering team and the day of the 970 PowerBook may be that much closer... or may be not.
The G4 in the PB's is a lower voltage version. Down clocked 970's could go into PB's but if they do it will be for the 17" version only. For at least one quarter, the 970 will ONLY go into the meat and potatoes margin machines, the Powermacs! Everything else will ive on in G4 form for at least another year. We had G3 powerbooks for quite a while after the G4's came out, and you can expect the same here.
Current G4's are still competitive as far as mobile CPU's go. 7457's will only improve that while taking power consumption and heat dissapation down to extremely low levels.
If IBM had huge quantities of 970's ready, we'd already have them in front of us. If they don't, and Apple has to stock pile for a run of machines, then that surely will not be enough to feed demand for two lines for any substantial period. And this is tricky business, stock piling, stock piles can't build up for too long, or you just get stale product build-up depreciating in your warehouse when you could be selling it. Every day a 970 does NOT arrive, is a day less "WOW" when it finally does. But, go too early and you can't meet demand either, then you get waits, delays, shortages, and more frustration. The only solution is to go after it one line at a time, starting with the most profitable.
Moto will have faster, FRUGAL, G4's because it suits what they do, Apple will use them because it suits mobile and consumer models for the next year or so. After that...
what the... go away. only if everything went out to be very, very, very bad.
clive hurt me enough with his "not until 2004"
i want a 15"pb with an ibm ppc 970 processor (don't care how fast) before 2004, so if apple has to put the same processor in a 17"pb to ensure 17"pb sales so be it
Of course they do, have you seen the heat sink in a WindTunnel? There's more aluminium in that than in the entire casing of a 17"
Yes but those are duals, and running faster than 1GHz.
The latops are all 1GHz or less, and are running as a single chip. So are we certain that they are different chips? Or better still, can someone find some info on how what wattage they dissipate?
Comments
Intel slashes Centrino prices by up to 30%
By Tony Smith
Posted: 02/06/2003 at 13:11 GMT
Intel yesterday introduced a 1.7GHz Pentium M processor, as expected. It also cut the prices of the rest of the range by up to 34 per cent, which we'd suspected but had no firm evidence for.
Intel also introduced a Low-voltage 1.2GHz Pentium M and a 1GHz Ultra-low Voltage part, again as we reported last week.
The new chips are priced at $694, $341 and $319, respectively, in batches of 1000 and bundling the 855 chipset and Pro Wireless 2100 mini-PCI 802.11b card. So says Intel's press release, but its official price list, has the 1.7GHz part down at $725, $372/$367 (depending on whether you choose an 855 with integrated graphics or not) and $350/$345.
According to the price list, the processors alone cost $637, $284 and $262.
At the same time, Intel has cut the price of existing Pentium Ms. The 1.6GHz plus other Centrino chips now costs $511 and $506 (with integrated graphics and without), a cut of 30 per cent from $725 and $720. The equivalent 1.5GHz packages fall from $511 and $506 to $382 and $377, both a reduction of 25 per cent. The $382 and $377 1.4GHz packages fall 14 per cent to $329 and $324. The 1.3GHz versions stay where they are, at $297 and $292.
On there own, the processors prices have fallen even more steeply. The 1.GHz chip fell 34 per cent from $637 to $423. The 1.5GHz part went from $423 to $294, a cut of 31 per cent, and the 1.4GHz part dropped 18 per cent to $241 from $294. The price of the 1.3GHz Pentium M remains unchanged at $209.
In a nod toward last week's highly publicised VPN bug, Intel promised "updated networking software that delivers additional support for security features designed to protect information transmitted while connecting to networks using wireless technology". The software in question is Intel Pro Network Connection, which will be upgraded to version 7.1. The software works with the Centrino platform's Pro Wireless 2100 802.11b card.
Intel is adding support for the Wi-Fi Alliance's Wi-Fi Protected Access (WPA) security scheme. WPA is a cut-down version of the yet-to-be-ratified 802.11x WLAN security protocol. It will also add Cisco LEAP and CKIP security support, a move geared toward improving the Centrino platform's appeal to corporates. ®
What the price drops mean is that the iBook will get cheaper still. Expect the next major revision of the iBook to drop a large screen (14" mebbe widescreen) intot he 899-999 range, and a loaded version with the same screen size to go for no more than 1299.
iBooks exist to be CHEAP, not neccessarily fast, to remain competitive they have to continue to drop in price, and they will -- current PB price structures virtually guarantee it.
Originally posted by Matsu
JYD, not exactly. The 970 won't be seen in a PB for at least 12 months after the PM's, maybe longer, maybe sooner, but not this year at any rate, and to the chagrin of many, expect Mot to deliver faster low power G4's for the PB. Apple really doesn't have another choice right now.
Any info to back this up? Or maybe at least explaining why you think this way?
I say Apple does have another choice, the 970! The 1.2GHz 970 chip runs cooler than a 1GHz G4. So Apple could easily use those in laptops right now. And the 1.4GHz 970 only runs a bit hotter than the 1GHz G4
[email protected] dissipates 21.3W
[email protected] dissipates 19W
[email protected] dissipates 24W
[email protected] dissipates 42W (just for reference, not that it would go into a laptop)
So I could see the 1.4GHz part slipping into a 17" perhaps (or 1.2 if that is too hot). The 15" gets a 1.2GHz, and 1GHz (if the 970s clock that slow). And the 12" gets either a 1GHz G4, or a 1GHz 970. Then once the move to 90nm is done (which from all sources is supposed to be quick), the 970 will become even more laptop friendly.
Don't get your hopes up for the 7457. I am still sticking by my bet that we will never see it in an Apple product. Plus, with only a 200MHz bus (not DDR even, that wasn't until 7457-RM!), would you really want a a faster G4 on that? What does the mythical 7457 offer besides a die shrink to 130nm? Why do people still want to grasp on to this chip?
I am also willing to bet that the iBook (if it is still around) will never see a G4. Rather it will move to GOBI (which is an enhanced 750 I believe), and then the 850 (SIMD, rapid-io, super G3).
Originally posted by kupan787
Any info to back this up? Or maybe at least explaining why you think this way?
I say Apple does have another choice, the 970! The 1.2GHz 970 chip runs cooler than a 1GHz G4. So Apple could easily use those in laptops right now. And the 1.4GHz 970 only runs a bit hotter than the 1GHz G4
[email protected] dissipates 21.3W
[email protected] dissipates 19W
[email protected] dissipates 24W
[email protected] dissipates 42W (just for reference, not that it would go into a laptop)
nahh...the 21.3W 1ghz g4 is desktop...these are not in powerbooks right now...its more like 15W or lower...
i could see 1ghz 970...which is a vast improvement over any g4...in a powerbook..but thats not ok for the typical customer....no matter how they market it...they have to make it different from 1ghz...i think
1ghz=1ghz for the average customer
BUT...i dont care...put an 800mhz 970 in it...and i would buy it immeadietly
Originally posted by cycle
nahh...the 21.3W 1ghz g4 is desktop...these are not in powerbooks right now...its more like 15W or lower...
So the desktop and the laptop have different G4s? Are you sure?
I know the older ones were different (7440 vs 7450 or whatever), but i thoguht the most recent laptops had basicly the desktop chips (7455?) in there (I could and probably am way off here...)
Technically, it would suffice to use 1 GHz 970s for the powerbooks, and 1 GHz G4s for the iBooks, but we know Apple won't do this because of the marketing problems it would create.
It's not an easy decision to make, at least not with the info we have. IF Moto could deliver a low power G4 with a FSB that supports DDR, and IF they could scale it over 1 GHz, and IF it were cheaper than the 970, yeah, it would make sense to use it in iBooks. But I simply don't see Moto rising to the challenge.
Regardless of Moto, I'm fairly convinced that at least 2 Powerbooks will be getting 970s this year. It's the "year of the laptop", and the 15"-17" are screaming out for the PPC 970.
12" Combo $3999 > $3099
12" Superdrive now $3499 (forget what it was before)
15" Combo $3799
15" Superdrive $4899 (wtf?)
17" Superdrive $6999 > $6299
Originally posted by Marcus
Maybe you just got a bad machine?
Quite possibly, that's why I'm letting them repair it rather than just asking for my money back.
What happens is that in "closed lid mode" the internal fan never comes on, and I mean "never". Pop the lid up and it comes on straight away and stays on for 15-20 minutes - by which time the machine is safe to touch again. :-)
Originally posted by Stoo
does the fan come on when it is closed?
No, that seems to be the crux of the problem. I prefer to use it with an external screen when I get the chance, I don't really like monitor spanning when you've got two completely different screens and they're at disparate heights too.
Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg
Apple will very quickly migrate their entire laptop line to the Powerbooks after the 970 is released,
If you mean that they're all going to be called "PowerBooks", then I think you're wrong. There will still be a iBook/PowerBook division. If you mean that iBooks will get G4s, then yes, probably, but PowerBooks will have 970/980 by then or quite a bit faster G4s - so I don't thing that's going to happen until 2004.
Originally posted by kupan787
So the desktop and the laptop have different G4s? Are you sure?
Of course they do, have you seen the heat sink in a WindTunnel? There's more aluminium in that than in the entire casing of a 17"
Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg
I still think it makes sense for Apple to go 970 in Powerbooks.
Of course it does, if they have 970s at all, if those run cool enough to go in a portable, if they have a new motherboard to put it on, if they've done all the necessary testing etc...
That's a lot of ifs.
But help them out, join the Apple engineering team and the day of the 970 PowerBook may be that much closer... or may be not.
WWDC
Steve Jobs does a speech...
Intel launches new chips...
IBM holds a PPC 970 conference...
A coincidence?
Current G4's are still competitive as far as mobile CPU's go. 7457's will only improve that while taking power consumption and heat dissapation down to extremely low levels.
If IBM had huge quantities of 970's ready, we'd already have them in front of us. If they don't, and Apple has to stock pile for a run of machines, then that surely will not be enough to feed demand for two lines for any substantial period. And this is tricky business, stock piling, stock piles can't build up for too long, or you just get stale product build-up depreciating in your warehouse when you could be selling it. Every day a 970 does NOT arrive, is a day less "WOW" when it finally does. But, go too early and you can't meet demand either, then you get waits, delays, shortages, and more frustration. The only solution is to go after it one line at a time, starting with the most profitable.
Moto will have faster, FRUGAL, G4's because it suits what they do, Apple will use them because it suits mobile and consumer models for the next year or so. After that...
Originally posted by farve
Any chance of dual G4's in PB's?
I'd like to say that anything is possible... but really, with the 970 'just around the corner', what would the point of re-enginerring for duals be?
Originally posted by farve
Any chance of dual G4's in PB's?
what the... go away. only if everything went out to be very, very, very bad.
clive hurt me enough with his "not until 2004"
i want a 15"pb with an ibm ppc 970 processor (don't care how fast) before 2004, so if apple has to put the same processor in a 17"pb to ensure 17"pb sales so be it
Originally posted by gar
Re: dual G4 PB
what the... go away. only if everything went out to be very, very, very bad.
Yeah.
"No, don't give me a newer, better, faster chip. Give me two slower, more expensive chips and shove them into a one inch thick enclosure."
Screed
Originally posted by Clive
Of course they do, have you seen the heat sink in a WindTunnel? There's more aluminium in that than in the entire casing of a 17"
Yes but those are duals, and running faster than 1GHz.
The latops are all 1GHz or less, and are running as a single chip. So are we certain that they are different chips? Or better still, can someone find some info on how what wattage they dissipate?