As for QE. What happens if new compiler and optimaztion makes the ibook as fast on redraws as OS9.?
Hell, I'd like a radeon 7500 but if 10.2 is fast and i can't take andavatge of high end realtime 3d QE then so be it. i know this is a consumer machine.
<strong>I run X on an ibook 600 with 640 ram and it FLIES! Geeez you amke it sound like we are running Molasas OS. Some of us are plenty happy with their g3 ibook.
Its plenty fast for me (and no i don't play games i have better things to do
But i guess since its not a "g4" I should throw it in the drink
Oh and OSX on my ibook is faster than my 400mhz g4 agp.So much for the g4 theory.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, MacOS X is slow on the 66Mhz bus iBook, so is there a way to overclock the bus? (I think I read before here that it could be clocked to 100Mhz easily, but forgot where it was, is it really possible?) I think some of us might be less dependent on future iBook offerings if at some point maybe 2 years later when the old iBook is not as new then overclocking the bus plus jaguar and later updates old iBooks could be fast computers for a lot of people.
<strong>Well, MacOS X is slow on the 66Mhz bus iBook, so is there a way to overclock the bus? (I think I read before here that it could be clocked to 100Mhz easily, but forgot where it was, is it really possible?) I think some of us might be less dependent on future iBook offerings if at some point maybe 2 years later when the old iBook is not as new then overclocking the bus plus jaguar and later updates old iBooks could be fast computers for a lot of people.</strong><hr></blockquote>
yes, overclocking is that easy, check out xlr8yourmac and the macnn forums.
judging from experience on my g3 450 jag dev os x just may eventually fly on a 600/100 ibook, speed is finally matching os 9- ibook owners should be in for a very welcome boost.
it's like a whole new computer, especially on the low end of the performance spectrum...
<strong>Although yes, a much faster G3 is better than a really slow G4 (more than 100mhz spread)
Plus, w/o eye candy, what functions of OS X does AltiVec accelerate? I would like to know what, besides MPEG encoding...???</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't know. all I know is that it is absolutely ridiculous to ship a processor in 2002 for 1500 bucks that doesn't have a SIMD unit and that is 1998 technology. Move along already.
ALL of Apple's apps have some sort of altivec optimization. They ALL see improvement on G4s. Most them see drastic differences. OS X runs better on the G4. w/o eye candy? why without? THAT'S WHAT IS SLOW!
so who knows what pieces of the core of Mac OS X are actually AltiVed accelerated? Memory bcopy? What else? Applenut, don't be to sure...
Bueller? Thought so. If iMovie effects and iTunes and Photoshop and a handful of other apps are going to be slower, than so be it. Many other things will be faster, the UI included.
Nobody seems to know for sure what the graphics option will be, but I'd guess they're going to upgrade it to a 16 MB Radeon-M.
If the iBook is going to stay on a G3, then it needs full QE compliance. You can make an argument (a stupid, short-sighted one but an argument) that a consumer doesn't want to rip through an QT, Mp3, iMovie enconding/decoding, or a photoshop/FCP filter/render, but it's very hard to argue that consumers don't want to have a snappy interface experience or play games -- 2 things that a 32MB radeon7500 would fix.
PS. iBooks and PowerBooks have had the same basic video system (sans spanning support) up untill the rev B TiBooks.
Seems to me the real question is will Apple offer a small revision, (slight speed bump, more vram, same mobo and case design), or a complete overhaul, (new processor, new vcard, new mobo/sysbus, new case design). Small revision or complete overhaul, that is the question.
How long has the iBook product line been in existence? Am I correct in saying that there has been only one complete overhaul to the product line. The PB line has had at least two, as has the PM. The iMac just got its first one. It seems that the consumer lines are slower to get complete overhauls.
Also, has there ever been a complete overhaul of a product line that was not introduced at an expo? I'm a bit weak on Mac history. Is there any historical precedents to suggest the iBook will get a non-expo, complete overhaul?
What on earth will be released at MWNY? Just 10.2?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Nothing has been published about invitations to an event at Apple next week so either it isn't happening or it will be a silent update like the Power Macs in January and the iBook and TiBook last fall.
My speculation is that the iBook will get a small speed bump (I'd like to see 800 but expect 700MHz) and just enough of a GPU bump to use QE
For MWNY I expect to see a major push on Jaguar and a major new Power Mac. I think that the last upgrade to the PM was kept low partly in order to make for a bigger splash at MWNY.
I can't see the iBook getting a G4 for a long time. They use too much power and generate too much heat. The G3 is perfectly adequate for most of what you want to do in a small portable.
It will probably just be a press release like the bumped powerbooks were.
anyway, I run OS X.1 on a G3 400 PowerBook, and it's a bit slow but overall quite nice. I'm sure a 700Mhz G3 iBook would be a welcome addition.
Also, iBooks and PowerBooks did have the same video hardware at the same time for a while. At one time, they both had the 8MB Rage 128 Mobility. I would imagine the iBook will get improved video hardware, something with at least 16MB.
G4s don't really matter that much for general use, it's just specific applications that benefit from a G4. A G3 is still a decent processor, especially for a laptop. However, the clock speeds should be higher, but I suppose that won't happen until we see faster PowerBooks.
<a href="http://www.nvidia.com/view.asp?PAGE=geforce2go"; target="_blank">Here's</a> some linkage to the GeForce2 Go, looks like the 200 would be about right. OTOH, can't the Radeon Mobility go up to 32MB? Who says it has to have the same stats as the previous TiBook?
<strong>I'm sure a 700Mhz G3 iBook would be a welcome addition....
G4s don't really matter that much for general use, it's just specific applications that benefit from a G4. A G3 is still a decent processor, especially for a laptop. However, the clock speeds should be higher, but I suppose that won't happen until we see faster PowerBooks.</strong><hr></blockquote>
If a 100 MB boost to an outdated CPU is all they can muster, then my request to Apple is "Please don't bother!" That would just be an excuse to maintain, or worse yet, raise the price for no good reason. Just keep the lineup as is and lower the prices until a real upgrade is ready for market.
G4s don't really matter that much for general use? That doesn't sound like very good add copy for Apple's product lines. The performance of which are based almost 100% on Altivec. Without Altivec (G4), the PowerMac and the PowerBook are powerless.
It's just specific applications that benefit from it? Do you mean applications like OS X, iToons, and iMovie?
A G3 is still a decent processor, especially for a laptop? Apple does not think it is a decent processor for the consumer desktop, nor K-12 students. No good for businesses either. Why do you think these same people need less of a system when working from their couch or the breakfast table?
Apple is in the position of saying on the one hand that the G4 is important for everyone when it comes to good performance on the Mac. And on the other hand saying that it is not all that important. The same is true with QE. It will greately speed up the GUI. On the other hand, mobile consumers don't need or want a snappy GUI. It won't make that much difference anyway. Which is it, Apple.
Comments
Hell, I'd like a radeon 7500 but if 10.2 is fast and i can't take andavatge of high end realtime 3d QE then so be it. i know this is a consumer machine.
<strong>I run X on an ibook 600 with 640 ram and it FLIES! Geeez you amke it sound like we are running Molasas OS. Some of us are plenty happy with their g3 ibook.
Its plenty fast for me (and no i don't play games i have better things to do
But i guess since its not a "g4" I should throw it in the drink
Oh and OSX on my ibook is faster than my 400mhz g4 agp.So much for the g4 theory.</strong><hr></blockquote>
<img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
smoking some strong stuff
I'm in the middle of clocking my 500/66 (stupid screws are stuck holding the metal cover on the mobo's bottom!)
Plus, w/o eye candy, what functions of OS X does AltiVec accelerate? I would like to know what, besides MPEG encoding...???
This apparent new policy of releasing updates/new products as they're ready (vs. at Macworld) is a nice change...
<strong>Well, MacOS X is slow on the 66Mhz bus iBook, so is there a way to overclock the bus? (I think I read before here that it could be clocked to 100Mhz easily, but forgot where it was, is it really possible?) I think some of us might be less dependent on future iBook offerings if at some point maybe 2 years later when the old iBook is not as new then overclocking the bus plus jaguar and later updates old iBooks could be fast computers for a lot of people.</strong><hr></blockquote>
yes, overclocking is that easy, check out xlr8yourmac and the macnn forums.
judging from experience on my g3 450 jag dev os x just may eventually fly on a 600/100 ibook, speed is finally matching os 9- ibook owners should be in for a very welcome boost.
it's like a whole new computer, especially on the low end of the performance spectrum...
[ 05-18-2002: Message edited by: janitor ]</p>
<strong>Although yes, a much faster G3 is better than a really slow G4 (more than 100mhz spread)
Plus, w/o eye candy, what functions of OS X does AltiVec accelerate? I would like to know what, besides MPEG encoding...???</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't know. all I know is that it is absolutely ridiculous to ship a processor in 2002 for 1500 bucks that doesn't have a SIMD unit and that is 1998 technology. Move along already.
ALL of Apple's apps have some sort of altivec optimization. They ALL see improvement on G4s. Most them see drastic differences. OS X runs better on the G4. w/o eye candy? why without? THAT'S WHAT IS SLOW!
Bueller? Thought so. If iMovie effects and iTunes and Photoshop and a handful of other apps are going to be slower, than so be it. Many other things will be faster, the UI included.
Nobody seems to know for sure what the graphics option will be, but I'd guess they're going to upgrade it to a 16 MB Radeon-M.
[ 05-18-2002: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>
PS. iBooks and PowerBooks have had the same basic video system (sans spanning support) up untill the rev B TiBooks.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Certainly will not be.
I think the Powerbooks will have to make one more jump before we see a G4 iBook.
When it happens, we will see 700 and 800 MHZ G4 iBooks and 800+ and 1 GHZ Powerbooks.
I am waiting for a G4 iBook myself. I hope it will happen in time for X-Mas but am not getting my hopes up.
I do hope this round of iBooks sees a better graphics chip solution though.
How long has the iBook product line been in existence? Am I correct in saying that there has been only one complete overhaul to the product line. The PB line has had at least two, as has the PM. The iMac just got its first one. It seems that the consumer lines are slower to get complete overhauls.
Also, has there ever been a complete overhaul of a product line that was not introduced at an expo? I'm a bit weak on Mac history. Is there any historical precedents to suggest the iBook will get a non-expo, complete overhaul?
<strong>So...
iBook next week
Xserve last week
Powerbook in late April
PowerMac in February
iMac at MWSF '02
What on earth will be released at MWNY? Just 10.2?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Nothing has been published about invitations to an event at Apple next week so either it isn't happening or it will be a silent update like the Power Macs in January and the iBook and TiBook last fall.
My speculation is that the iBook will get a small speed bump (I'd like to see 800 but expect 700MHz) and just enough of a GPU bump to use QE
For MWNY I expect to see a major push on Jaguar and a major new Power Mac. I think that the last upgrade to the PM was kept low partly in order to make for a bigger splash at MWNY.
I can't see the iBook getting a G4 for a long time. They use too much power and generate too much heat. The G3 is perfectly adequate for most of what you want to do in a small portable.
It won't be a big deal until it goes G4.
anyway, I run OS X.1 on a G3 400 PowerBook, and it's a bit slow but overall quite nice. I'm sure a 700Mhz G3 iBook would be a welcome addition.
Also, iBooks and PowerBooks did have the same video hardware at the same time for a while. At one time, they both had the 8MB Rage 128 Mobility. I would imagine the iBook will get improved video hardware, something with at least 16MB.
G4s don't really matter that much for general use, it's just specific applications that benefit from a G4. A G3 is still a decent processor, especially for a laptop. However, the clock speeds should be higher, but I suppose that won't happen until we see faster PowerBooks.
<strong>I'm sure a 700Mhz G3 iBook would be a welcome addition....
G4s don't really matter that much for general use, it's just specific applications that benefit from a G4. A G3 is still a decent processor, especially for a laptop. However, the clock speeds should be higher, but I suppose that won't happen until we see faster PowerBooks.</strong><hr></blockquote>
If a 100 MB boost to an outdated CPU is all they can muster, then my request to Apple is "Please don't bother!" That would just be an excuse to maintain, or worse yet, raise the price for no good reason. Just keep the lineup as is and lower the prices until a real upgrade is ready for market.
G4s don't really matter that much for general use? That doesn't sound like very good add copy for Apple's product lines. The performance of which are based almost 100% on Altivec. Without Altivec (G4), the PowerMac and the PowerBook are powerless.
It's just specific applications that benefit from it? Do you mean applications like OS X, iToons, and iMovie?
A G3 is still a decent processor, especially for a laptop? Apple does not think it is a decent processor for the consumer desktop, nor K-12 students. No good for businesses either. Why do you think these same people need less of a system when working from their couch or the breakfast table?
Apple is in the position of saying on the one hand that the G4 is important for everyone when it comes to good performance on the Mac. And on the other hand saying that it is not all that important. The same is true with QE. It will greately speed up the GUI. On the other hand, mobile consumers don't need or want a snappy GUI. It won't make that much difference anyway. Which is it, Apple.