I thought I'd add that on the front of out local paper today it says below the article about the job rate : " If hiring doesn't pick up, the nation faces recession. "
I think anybody who doesn't recognise that the economy is in trouble and has been for some time has just got their head in a hole.
And let me say that I'm not hoping as SDW has so childishly suggested before that this will happen. It's scary and we have to do something about it.
I don't know why you can't see this. Just out of touch I guess.
I like to avoid the comment I'm about to make, but you know, you're really a cock, jimmac. I made no attack against you or anyone else. I opened this up for honest discussion. I made the speculative point that the jobs number alone would be difficult to run on. That's really all. You come back your typical anti-Bush, anti-anything conservative, personally insulting bullshit. I'm so sick of your assinine comments.
This is to say nothing of your notions themselves. The economic problems now have NOTHING to do with what was going on in the 1970's. The late 1980's were also totally different. Leave it to you to try and distort the past.
This is going to come down to one thing: How is the overall economy by fall 2004? That's it. Game over. If it is stronger than it is today, Bush will win solidly. If it is doing better than "good", he will be unbeatable. If it stays the same or gets a little worse, Bush may be in for a fight. But, I still think he'll prevail for a number of other reasons. One of them is that he can show he made attempts at rectifying the situation via tax cuts. Another is national security, which every major Democratic candidate except Leiberman is horrendously weak on. He can and will run on the War on Terror. Many still equate him with being the strong leader through the immediate aftermath of of 9/11. He got two major tax cuts passed and by the time election 2004 rolls around, will have the prescription drug benefit passed. BTW, he's also going to raise $200 million and run unopposed in a primary. The Dems are going to kill each other fighting over the nomination.
Tell me again how unemployment 2% below historical averages is going to kill him. Tell me how much Bush is screwed, jimmac! You're right...according to the above he has no chance! LOL! Now go play on moveon.org, little jimmac!
Insofar as illegal immigration, the problem isn't the aliens taking unskilled or semi-skilled labor jobs, the problem is that citizens have to essentially support the taxbase for them, since they can't contribute taxes themselves. That, the security risk we all are aware of at this point, and of course health risks, are the reason we have immigration laws. An illegal immigrant population isn't "taking" overqualified skilled laborers' jobs.
As far as Bush's re-election, if things don't improve by next year, he will almost surely be voted out. It's bad enough around here, and elections are all about "what have you done for me lately." The Jan/Feb trouble comment was about giving the Democrats ahead of steam, because right now they have little (apparently?) to run with. If things go badly six months from now, the Democratic candidate is going to be in the race. If the economy improves substantially after that, it makes them weaker down the stretch. The only other things that could sink the Bush ship is another major terrorist act in the US, or some big tragedy in Iraq involving a lot of troops. The lines have already been drawn with regard to the war and foreign policy, so it's a non-issue going in with the split it's made.
Looking over this thread I have seen several things going on.
Some have articulated some very well said points regarding the economy. Some have decided to question the statements of others participating in the thread and "second guess" the poster. There is no need to raise a fuss over views. I see the entire issue of the economy as one where by we must continue to "adapt" to the desires and needs of the marketplace. Nothing is fixed or static within the economy. Change is a reality and economic cycles are a fact of life. Being able to leverage ideas, intelligence and capital forming products and services that custom fit the marketplace at hand is the name of the game. Some people never want "their" "gold rush" to end.... The fact is however that the world moves forward and never looks back to former "gold rushes" I am inspired by good business models and people with vision. Sure any given business model or vision has a certain shelf life and can be a temporary fad in the marketplace but regardless to learn the grasp of a nitche in the market is of utmost value and adds wisdom. I think a topic of study that would be inspiring is the study of those who in the midst of the great depression forged ahead with new ideas and business models. Such a study would in my view reveal knowledge that is essential for any who desire to have victory in life. Learning new methods even from old examples is a tactic that can inspire new ideas and technologies. Lifestyle can and will advance based on the actions of those who dream.
I believe we must guard against letting a negative outlook crush dreams. I submit that if we look within our context or environment no matter what it may be,, if we look we will find new ideas that can continue to change the world in which we live.
This is why I say it isnt really worth it for me to go to college, since I wouldnt get a job in this economy anywayz. I think if you are smart enough you can ride any trend and make money in the market.
This is why I say it isnt really worth it for me to go to college, since I wouldnt get a job in this economy anywayz. I think if you are smart enough you can ride any trend and make money in the market.
It would not hurt to finish college Verbal Assassin but you are right about riding trends.
If you can spot trends and ride them you can make money.
Look at the performance and rise in value of Ebay stock:
To expand on what Fellowship said, right now I am more or less trying to make an impact in society through my own thing. I have my own startup business we are trying to get going (website soon), various projects, trying to turn a hobby & love into somethin I can be successful with (music). Basically if you set out to do what everything in society just wants you to do then I think you are cheating yourself and only conforming to a standard that has been set. I hate conformity because it lacks originality and isnt YOU. Get what Im tryin to say?
To expand on what Fellowship said, right now I am more or less trying to make an impact in society through my own thing. I have my own startup business we are trying to get going (website soon), various projects, trying to turn a hobby & love into somethin I can be successful with (music). Basically if you set out to do what everything in society just wants you to do then I think you are cheating yourself and only conforming to a standard that has been set. I hate conformity because it lacks originality and isnt YOU. Get what Im tryin to say?
Very well said and understood
I know exactly your thoughts here. I challenge you to network with successful people from all backgrounds within your community. Get to know people. Get to know people who can help compliment your work and your ideas. I trust you will enjoy the ride
I realize that it probably would be a good idea to finish college, and I keep tellin myself that....but then I start to look at the alternative side. Paying $15,000 for something I can learn for free almost by teaching myself? If you know computer languages you can make a killing by yourself. Heck, you can make a lot more money than most people who have been working behind a cubical for years just designing professional websites. Also, I have really good business sense I feel and know how to make money. How bout taking some of that money I invest in college to invest it in stock and make money off of it? The point is that if I have all these things that I feel will make me successful right now, and more successful than I could be wasting money in college to get a degree, then why not jump on it? I am only 19 years old, yet I am plenty old enough to set out and do my own thing and get my name out there. I always look at the big picture and kinda survey my options...look at trends....see where I can do something. I will honestly tell you right now that some of the ideas I had at 16 (when I couldnt really do anything about selling them or getting them out to the public) I see being copied right now on various networks and with particular companies. Its like....hey, I have these ideas now, why not capitalize while I can? My heart isnt in school and never has been, its somethin I feel isnt for me. Thats why I hate it when people automatically assume that you just arent trying to make it in life if you wanna drop of out of school. Sometimes its the exact opposite, and a lot of smart people have been in my exact situation. Look at Steve Jobs. These people in my mind are the true visionaries for America.
ILook at Steve Jobs. These people in my mind are the true visionaries for America.
I agree with you!
School is not for everyone!
I was mentored by my father to build homes and I dropped out of college to jump into my own business. I have my own corporation and I do very well with it. You will have to decide for you if jumping into business is right for you. I can say from my experiences that being a college dropout and going into business has been the best thing for me. I too did not care for some aspects of college. I found too much "old school" thinking being taught. The real world moves much faster. There are fields most surely that absolutely require skilled university training. Law, Medicine, Engineering etc. you and only you will "know" what is best for you and your lifestyle.
I wish you the very best!!!! It is all about your outlook!
As far as Bush's re-election, if things don't improve by next year, he will almost surely be voted out. It's bad enough around here, and elections are all about "what have you done for me lately."
I can't agree with that. If things stay the same, Bush will have a bit of a fight. His fundraising prowess, running unapposed in the primary, the WOT, etc. are all going to major factors though. Going up against a President with $200 Million isn;t going to be easy. As I said, he's also going to be able to point to Medicare Reform and Tax Cuts as domestic victories.
The Dems don't have any issues. The only possible thing that is left for them is the economy. Opposing the War in Iraq is both political suicide and will be old hat come 2004. Bush has now taken Medicare from them. They are left with attacking Bush.
"Out the door in 2004", "Regime change in Washington" et al make good rally calls and convention speeches, but Bush is going to be one MONSTER of a cadidate. Finally you forget that Bush will, I repeat WILL have a unified base (unless you listen to jimmac). I think, respectfully, that you have failed to realize the dissaray that is the Democratic party right now. They're going to rip each other's guts out...and it is going to cost them. The only solid support is coming from the FAR left wing of the party.
I'm not trying to flame you here. But seriously, add up the advantages Bush has and willl have, and then look at the Democratic party. After that, tell me how Bush is going to lose unless things get REALLY bad.
2. $200 million war chest. This will be more than all Dems combined.
3. War on Terror victories in Afghanistan and Iraq
4. Perception as a strong wartime leader by mainstream America. (Think "carrier landing, carrier landing, carrier landing").
5. Emotional strings as the leader of 9/11 aftermath
6. Knowledge of what happens when an incumbent runs a lousy campaign. He'll make every attempt to prevent history from repeating iteself.
7. Pointing to two major tax cuts and Medicare as domestic victories. Whether some here think they are or not...he'll still do it.
8. He'll tell us that he'll work to make the tax cuts permanent. The Dems will either have to say they'll do the same or come out for what amounts to a tax increase. This is why he went for the five year cut at full value, rather than the ten year at half value.
Bush has also gained confidence and polished his public speaking quite a bit since Election 2000. Bush will pound the same issues and stay on message...just as he did in 2000. While criticized for "saying the same thing over and over"...it obviously works.
By contrast, the Dems can focus on:
1) The economy, if it doesn't get better.
2) The lost jobs stat
3) Lack of WMD...though as I said I hear we are going to get some new info on that soon.
4) Supposed decline of America's prestige and world standing.
5) Social Security (and I'll bet you Bush will come out on that too).
6) Deficits
In case you haven't noticed, the Dems HAVE TO attack Bush. They HAVE TO paint his admin in a negative way. Otherwise...in their minds...they are screwed. I disagree though. It think the voters will choose the candidate with a plan over the one who attacks the plan every time. Bush will present things positively, much as Reagan did, while the Dems MUST attack him and the state of the union in the process. I think that is going to fail for them...just as it failed in the midterms.
I like to avoid the comment I'm about to make, but you know, you're really a cock, jimmac. I made no attack against you or anyone else. I opened this up for honest discussion. I made the speculative point that the jobs number alone would be difficult to run on. That's really all. You come back your typical anti-Bush, anti-anything conservative, personally insulting bullshit. I'm so sick of your assinine comments.
This is to say nothing of your notions themselves. The economic problems now have NOTHING to do with what was going on in the 1970's. The late 1980's were also totally different. Leave it to you to try and distort the past.
This is going to come down to one thing: How is the overall economy by fall 2004? That's it. Game over. If it is stronger than it is today, Bush will win solidly. If it is doing better than "good", he will be unbeatable. If it stays the same or gets a little worse, Bush may be in for a fight. But, I still think he'll prevail for a number of other reasons. One of them is that he can show he made attempts at rectifying the situation via tax cuts. Another is national security, which every major Democratic candidate except Leiberman is horrendously weak on. He can and will run on the War on Terror. Many still equate him with being the strong leader through the immediate aftermath of of 9/11. He got two major tax cuts passed and by the time election 2004 rolls around, will have the prescription drug benefit passed. BTW, he's also going to raise $200 million and run unopposed in a primary. The Dems are going to kill each other fighting over the nomination.
Tell me again how unemployment 2% below historical averages is going to kill him. Tell me how much Bush is screwed, jimmac! You're right...according to the above he has no chance! LOL! Now go play on moveon.org, little jimmac!
Well you show your true colors. Someone disagrees stronly with you and they're a c@*k! I didn't attack anyone. I just stated the facts. Everytime in the past I've brought this up about the bad economy you've said you thought I wanted this to happen. I just thought I've give my answer ahead of you this time.
Look I'm sorry reality doesn't fit your perception but, You're living in own little dream world.
No point in talking about it because you'll see what you want to see no matter what facts are presented to you.
I can but sympathize with your faith towards the human intellect.
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
This is going to come down to one thing: How is the overall economy by fall 2004? That's it. Game over. If it is stronger than it is today, Bush will win solidly.
Quote:
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
Looking over this thread I have seen several things going on.
Actually, Fellows, looking over this thread I have seen only one thing. In fact you know what? That's what most people tend to see: one thing. Witness the SDW2001 quote, above. Who cares about the implications of recession and a growing percentage of the population on the doll, when one has Bush's re-election to worry about. Because, quite frankly that's the one thing I see a lot of people being worried about.
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
The answer is to put the military on the borders. Illegal immigration must stop. Seriously, give a reason not to have the military patrol the borders. A little off-topic, but oh well!
One reason: America's military is usually taking care of Corporate Interests in places where they don't belong. That's one.
Another is that if they did, you'd probably get back on these forums and complain that you can't hire anybody anymore at work, or at home, because it costs you too much.
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
The economic problems now have NOTHING to do with what was going on in the 1970's. The late 1980's were also totally different.
I guess 30 or even 20 years is too large a time span for events of the 70s and 80s do be relevant. In any case when have economic problems (yes, on a national and global scale) had a source other than greed and fear/insecurity?
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Listen facist?
I have no problem declaring that 20% of all people could be pretty much wiped off the face of the earth with no real loss. Even then I declared that the clear majority of illegal immigrants are better than the people they likely take the jobs from.
Yeah that sounds racist, doesn't it?
No it doesn't. It sounds fascist. (with an "s" between the "a" and that "c".
I don't know why you can't see this. Just out of touch I guess.
One.
Quote:
nd let me say that I'm not hoping as SDW has so childishly suggested before that this will happen. It's scary and we have to do something about it.
Two.
You didn't just disagree. You had to jab and take a stab at me personally.
Quote:
What a guy!
Well you show your true colors. Someone disagrees stronly with you and they're a c@*k! I didn't attack anyone. I just stated the facts. Everytime in the past I've brought this up about the bad economy you've said you thought I wanted this to happen. I just thought I've give my answer ahead of you this time.
Look I'm sorry reality doesn't fit your perception but, You're living in own little dream world.
No point in talking about it because you'll see what you want to see no matter what facts are presented to you.
With supporters like you Bush is screwed.
Give it up no one's buying today.
First, you have stated NO facts. At all. Second, OF COURSE you say there is no point in talking about it. Talking about it would mean you would have to 1) Take a positon and 2) Defend it. You can't even do the first one.
The main point I was putting up was the political significance of the "lost jobs" number. Your contention seems to be that unless things get a lot better and fast, Bush is screwed. I disagree with that in the extreme. I'm saying that if things get even a little better, he'll be fine. If they improe significantly, he'll win easily. And if the ecnonomy experiences a sudden boom, he'll be unstoppable. The only way he is going to lose is if things get signficantly WORSE and there is some other factor present...like a strong and well funded Dem opponent. In 1992, Bill Clinton had the economy to run on. He also had Ross Perot. He also was charismatic and well funded. He also had the broken promises of Bush 41 to run on. He was elected with 43% of the vote. In other words, it was a unique combination of factors (aka: a "fluke").
Mark my words, jimmac. If the economy stays the same or gets better, Bush will win.
This is why I say it isnt really worth it for me to go to college, since I wouldnt get a job in this economy anywayz.
Actually, back in the early 90's, people questioned why I would go to college for architecture. They told me there were't any jobs, and that architects were being made obsolete by computers. They were right at the time, at least on the first point. But just a few months before I graduated, our program had an accredidation review. We were sitting near the last row of a lecture hall with the review panel, and one of them turned around and told us that we couldn't have picked a better time to go to college. That person was right. Now it's five years later, ten years after I went into college and things are bad again. There's a pattern.
If you're going into college now, by the time you get out, things will be great again. It's a great time to go to college while the going is bad and you would have a harder time finding a job (nevermind if you like it or not) than finding a college you like. If you've already been through undergrad, nothing like sharpening your skills and helping your resume either. You can at least defer your debts for a while.
Nevermind though, the whole "fascist" thing pretty much puts the last nail in this coffin doesn't it?
Comments
Originally posted by trumptman
Call your tax a tariff and you and I would be (gasp) in agreement.
Nick
After one to many agreements, I have come to the conclusion that trumptman and bunge are, in fact, one and the same persons.
I think anybody who doesn't recognise that the economy is in trouble and has been for some time has just got their head in a hole.
And let me say that I'm not hoping as SDW has so childishly suggested before that this will happen. It's scary and we have to do something about it.
Originally posted by trumptman
I'll take that bet.
Nick
Just the very future of this great country of ours.
I don't know why you can't see this. Just out of touch I guess.
I like to avoid the comment I'm about to make, but you know, you're really a cock, jimmac. I made no attack against you or anyone else. I opened this up for honest discussion. I made the speculative point that the jobs number alone would be difficult to run on. That's really all. You come back your typical anti-Bush, anti-anything conservative, personally insulting bullshit. I'm so sick of your assinine comments.
This is to say nothing of your notions themselves. The economic problems now have NOTHING to do with what was going on in the 1970's. The late 1980's were also totally different. Leave it to you to try and distort the past.
This is going to come down to one thing: How is the overall economy by fall 2004? That's it. Game over. If it is stronger than it is today, Bush will win solidly. If it is doing better than "good", he will be unbeatable. If it stays the same or gets a little worse, Bush may be in for a fight. But, I still think he'll prevail for a number of other reasons. One of them is that he can show he made attempts at rectifying the situation via tax cuts. Another is national security, which every major Democratic candidate except Leiberman is horrendously weak on. He can and will run on the War on Terror. Many still equate him with being the strong leader through the immediate aftermath of of 9/11. He got two major tax cuts passed and by the time election 2004 rolls around, will have the prescription drug benefit passed. BTW, he's also going to raise $200 million and run unopposed in a primary. The Dems are going to kill each other fighting over the nomination.
Tell me again how unemployment 2% below historical averages is going to kill him. Tell me how much Bush is screwed, jimmac! You're right...according to the above he has no chance! LOL! Now go play on moveon.org, little jimmac!
As far as Bush's re-election, if things don't improve by next year, he will almost surely be voted out. It's bad enough around here, and elections are all about "what have you done for me lately." The Jan/Feb trouble comment was about giving the Democrats ahead of steam, because right now they have little (apparently?) to run with. If things go badly six months from now, the Democratic candidate is going to be in the race. If the economy improves substantially after that, it makes them weaker down the stretch. The only other things that could sink the Bush ship is another major terrorist act in the US, or some big tragedy in Iraq involving a lot of troops. The lines have already been drawn with regard to the war and foreign policy, so it's a non-issue going in with the split it's made.
Some have articulated some very well said points regarding the economy. Some have decided to question the statements of others participating in the thread and "second guess" the poster. There is no need to raise a fuss over views. I see the entire issue of the economy as one where by we must continue to "adapt" to the desires and needs of the marketplace. Nothing is fixed or static within the economy. Change is a reality and economic cycles are a fact of life. Being able to leverage ideas, intelligence and capital forming products and services that custom fit the marketplace at hand is the name of the game. Some people never want "their" "gold rush" to end.... The fact is however that the world moves forward and never looks back to former "gold rushes" I am inspired by good business models and people with vision. Sure any given business model or vision has a certain shelf life and can be a temporary fad in the marketplace but regardless to learn the grasp of a nitche in the market is of utmost value and adds wisdom. I think a topic of study that would be inspiring is the study of those who in the midst of the great depression forged ahead with new ideas and business models. Such a study would in my view reveal knowledge that is essential for any who desire to have victory in life. Learning new methods even from old examples is a tactic that can inspire new ideas and technologies. Lifestyle can and will advance based on the actions of those who dream.
I believe we must guard against letting a negative outlook crush dreams. I submit that if we look within our context or environment no matter what it may be,, if we look we will find new ideas that can continue to change the world in which we live.
Fellowship
Originally posted by Verbal Assassin
This is why I say it isnt really worth it for me to go to college, since I wouldnt get a job in this economy anywayz. I think if you are smart enough you can ride any trend and make money in the market.
It would not hurt to finish college Verbal Assassin but you are right about riding trends.
If you can spot trends and ride them you can make money.
Look at the performance and rise in value of Ebay stock:
Link to Bigcharts Graph of Ebay
Fellowship
Originally posted by Verbal Assassin
To expand on what Fellowship said, right now I am more or less trying to make an impact in society through my own thing. I have my own startup business we are trying to get going (website soon), various projects, trying to turn a hobby & love into somethin I can be successful with (music). Basically if you set out to do what everything in society just wants you to do then I think you are cheating yourself and only conforming to a standard that has been set. I hate conformity because it lacks originality and isnt YOU. Get what Im tryin to say?
Very well said and understood
I know exactly your thoughts here. I challenge you to network with successful people from all backgrounds within your community. Get to know people. Get to know people who can help compliment your work and your ideas. I trust you will enjoy the ride
Fellowship
Originally posted by Verbal Assassin
ILook at Steve Jobs. These people in my mind are the true visionaries for America.
I agree with you!
School is not for everyone!
I was mentored by my father to build homes and I dropped out of college to jump into my own business. I have my own corporation and I do very well with it. You will have to decide for you if jumping into business is right for you. I can say from my experiences that being a college dropout and going into business has been the best thing for me. I too did not care for some aspects of college. I found too much "old school" thinking being taught. The real world moves much faster. There are fields most surely that absolutely require skilled university training. Law, Medicine, Engineering etc. you and only you will "know" what is best for you and your lifestyle.
I wish you the very best!!!! It is all about your outlook!
Fellowship
Originally posted by BuonRotto
As far as Bush's re-election, if things don't improve by next year, he will almost surely be voted out. It's bad enough around here, and elections are all about "what have you done for me lately."
I can't agree with that. If things stay the same, Bush will have a bit of a fight. His fundraising prowess, running unapposed in the primary, the WOT, etc. are all going to major factors though. Going up against a President with $200 Million isn;t going to be easy. As I said, he's also going to be able to point to Medicare Reform and Tax Cuts as domestic victories.
The Dems don't have any issues. The only possible thing that is left for them is the economy. Opposing the War in Iraq is both political suicide and will be old hat come 2004. Bush has now taken Medicare from them. They are left with attacking Bush.
"Out the door in 2004", "Regime change in Washington" et al make good rally calls and convention speeches, but Bush is going to be one MONSTER of a cadidate. Finally you forget that Bush will, I repeat WILL have a unified base (unless you listen to jimmac). I think, respectfully, that you have failed to realize the dissaray that is the Democratic party right now. They're going to rip each other's guts out...and it is going to cost them. The only solid support is coming from the FAR left wing of the party.
I'm not trying to flame you here. But seriously, add up the advantages Bush has and willl have, and then look at the Democratic party. After that, tell me how Bush is going to lose unless things get REALLY bad.
Bush Advantages:
1. Incumbenecy
2. $200 million war chest. This will be more than all Dems combined.
3. War on Terror victories in Afghanistan and Iraq
4. Perception as a strong wartime leader by mainstream America. (Think "carrier landing, carrier landing, carrier landing").
5. Emotional strings as the leader of 9/11 aftermath
6. Knowledge of what happens when an incumbent runs a lousy campaign. He'll make every attempt to prevent history from repeating iteself.
7. Pointing to two major tax cuts and Medicare as domestic victories. Whether some here think they are or not...he'll still do it.
8. He'll tell us that he'll work to make the tax cuts permanent. The Dems will either have to say they'll do the same or come out for what amounts to a tax increase. This is why he went for the five year cut at full value, rather than the ten year at half value.
Bush has also gained confidence and polished his public speaking quite a bit since Election 2000. Bush will pound the same issues and stay on message...just as he did in 2000. While criticized for "saying the same thing over and over"...it obviously works.
By contrast, the Dems can focus on:
1) The economy, if it doesn't get better.
2) The lost jobs stat
3) Lack of WMD...though as I said I hear we are going to get some new info on that soon.
4) Supposed decline of America's prestige and world standing.
5) Social Security (and I'll bet you Bush will come out on that too).
6) Deficits
In case you haven't noticed, the Dems HAVE TO attack Bush. They HAVE TO paint his admin in a negative way. Otherwise...in their minds...they are screwed. I disagree though. It think the voters will choose the candidate with a plan over the one who attacks the plan every time. Bush will present things positively, much as Reagan did, while the Dems MUST attack him and the state of the union in the process. I think that is going to fail for them...just as it failed in the midterms.
Originally posted by SDW2001
jimmac:
I like to avoid the comment I'm about to make, but you know, you're really a cock, jimmac. I made no attack against you or anyone else. I opened this up for honest discussion. I made the speculative point that the jobs number alone would be difficult to run on. That's really all. You come back your typical anti-Bush, anti-anything conservative, personally insulting bullshit. I'm so sick of your assinine comments.
This is to say nothing of your notions themselves. The economic problems now have NOTHING to do with what was going on in the 1970's. The late 1980's were also totally different. Leave it to you to try and distort the past.
This is going to come down to one thing: How is the overall economy by fall 2004? That's it. Game over. If it is stronger than it is today, Bush will win solidly. If it is doing better than "good", he will be unbeatable. If it stays the same or gets a little worse, Bush may be in for a fight. But, I still think he'll prevail for a number of other reasons. One of them is that he can show he made attempts at rectifying the situation via tax cuts. Another is national security, which every major Democratic candidate except Leiberman is horrendously weak on. He can and will run on the War on Terror. Many still equate him with being the strong leader through the immediate aftermath of of 9/11. He got two major tax cuts passed and by the time election 2004 rolls around, will have the prescription drug benefit passed. BTW, he's also going to raise $200 million and run unopposed in a primary. The Dems are going to kill each other fighting over the nomination.
Tell me again how unemployment 2% below historical averages is going to kill him. Tell me how much Bush is screwed, jimmac! You're right...according to the above he has no chance! LOL! Now go play on moveon.org, little jimmac!
-------------------------------------------------------------
" but you know, you're really a cock, jimmac. I made no attack against you or anyone else "
-------------------------------------------------------------
What a guy!
Well you show your true colors. Someone disagrees stronly with you and they're a c@*k! I didn't attack anyone. I just stated the facts. Everytime in the past I've brought this up about the bad economy you've said you thought I wanted this to happen. I just thought I've give my answer ahead of you this time.
Look I'm sorry reality doesn't fit your perception but, You're living in own little dream world.
No point in talking about it because you'll see what you want to see no matter what facts are presented to you.
With supporters like you Bush is screwed.
Give it up no one's buying today.
Still in check.
Originally posted by BRussell
I bet Bush loses all 50 states.
I can but sympathize with your faith towards the human intellect.
Originally posted by SDW2001
This is going to come down to one thing: How is the overall economy by fall 2004? That's it. Game over. If it is stronger than it is today, Bush will win solidly.
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
Looking over this thread I have seen several things going on.
Actually, Fellows, looking over this thread I have seen only one thing. In fact you know what? That's what most people tend to see: one thing. Witness the SDW2001 quote, above. Who cares about the implications of recession and a growing percentage of the population on the doll, when one has Bush's re-election to worry about. Because, quite frankly that's the one thing I see a lot of people being worried about.
Originally posted by SDW2001
The answer is to put the military on the borders. Illegal immigration must stop. Seriously, give a reason not to have the military patrol the borders. A little off-topic, but oh well!
One reason: America's military is usually taking care of Corporate Interests in places where they don't belong. That's one.
Another is that if they did, you'd probably get back on these forums and complain that you can't hire anybody anymore at work, or at home, because it costs you too much.
Originally posted by SDW2001
The economic problems now have NOTHING to do with what was going on in the 1970's. The late 1980's were also totally different.
I guess 30 or even 20 years is too large a time span for events of the 70s and 80s do be relevant. In any case when have economic problems (yes, on a national and global scale) had a source other than greed and fear/insecurity?
Originally posted by trumptman
Listen facist?
I have no problem declaring that 20% of all people could be pretty much wiped off the face of the earth with no real loss. Even then I declared that the clear majority of illegal immigrants are better than the people they likely take the jobs from.
Yeah that sounds racist, doesn't it?
No it doesn't. It sounds fascist. (with an "s" between the "a" and that "c".
I don't know why you can't see this. Just out of touch I guess.
One.
nd let me say that I'm not hoping as SDW has so childishly suggested before that this will happen. It's scary and we have to do something about it.
Two.
You didn't just disagree. You had to jab and take a stab at me personally.
What a guy!
Well you show your true colors. Someone disagrees stronly with you and they're a c@*k! I didn't attack anyone. I just stated the facts. Everytime in the past I've brought this up about the bad economy you've said you thought I wanted this to happen. I just thought I've give my answer ahead of you this time.
Look I'm sorry reality doesn't fit your perception but, You're living in own little dream world.
No point in talking about it because you'll see what you want to see no matter what facts are presented to you.
With supporters like you Bush is screwed.
Give it up no one's buying today.
First, you have stated NO facts. At all. Second, OF COURSE you say there is no point in talking about it. Talking about it would mean you would have to 1) Take a positon and 2) Defend it. You can't even do the first one.
The main point I was putting up was the political significance of the "lost jobs" number. Your contention seems to be that unless things get a lot better and fast, Bush is screwed. I disagree with that in the extreme. I'm saying that if things get even a little better, he'll be fine. If they improe significantly, he'll win easily. And if the ecnonomy experiences a sudden boom, he'll be unstoppable. The only way he is going to lose is if things get signficantly WORSE and there is some other factor present...like a strong and well funded Dem opponent. In 1992, Bill Clinton had the economy to run on. He also had Ross Perot. He also was charismatic and well funded. He also had the broken promises of Bush 41 to run on. He was elected with 43% of the vote. In other words, it was a unique combination of factors (aka: a "fluke").
Mark my words, jimmac. If the economy stays the same or gets better, Bush will win.
Originally posted by Verbal Assassin
This is why I say it isnt really worth it for me to go to college, since I wouldnt get a job in this economy anywayz.
Actually, back in the early 90's, people questioned why I would go to college for architecture. They told me there were't any jobs, and that architects were being made obsolete by computers. They were right at the time, at least on the first point. But just a few months before I graduated, our program had an accredidation review. We were sitting near the last row of a lecture hall with the review panel, and one of them turned around and told us that we couldn't have picked a better time to go to college. That person was right. Now it's five years later, ten years after I went into college and things are bad again. There's a pattern.
If you're going into college now, by the time you get out, things will be great again. It's a great time to go to college while the going is bad and you would have a harder time finding a job (nevermind if you like it or not) than finding a college you like. If you've already been through undergrad, nothing like sharpening your skills and helping your resume either. You can at least defer your debts for a while.
Nevermind though, the whole "fascist" thing pretty much puts the last nail in this coffin doesn't it?