Next 17" PB update
An update for the 15" this late would make it more powerful than the 17" - causing an even uglier asymmetry in the lineup. Therefore, the 15" update seems like it will coincide with the 17" and possibly 12" ...and since the 17" books just started showing up at people's doors only a few months ago... the 15" will be a long time away.
This may look like another 15" thread in disguise, but it's not...
No really.
This may look like another 15" thread in disguise, but it's not...
No really.
Comments
With five PB models in production now (three screen sizes and some variations) it would be very difficult for Apple to update all of them at once.
Originally posted by neutrino23
It has already been reported in the Taiwan trade press that the 15.4" PB is being manufactured. I don't see why the 15" can't get updated now and then the 17" will be updated a few months later. Let's guess that the 15.4" PB gets a 1.25GHz speed bump as some have speculated. That is not such a huge difference from the 17" PB's 1GHz. For a few months you can choose between a little faster processor or a little larger screen.
With five PB models in production now (three screen sizes and some variations) it would be very difficult for Apple to update all of them at once.
I agree in principle. But I would bet the sales of the 17" model will plummet if the 15" gets updated to a faster speed while the 17" stays the same. Everyone who wants the 17" model will just wait until it is updated.
I am afraid the same will happen during the next round of updated Powerbooks if they use a G4 - everyone (who can) will simply put off buying until the G5 model comes out.
As far as the 5 different models, I think this may change when the 15" gets updated. There is no reason the 12" needs to be slower/different, all models can be the same, separated only by monitor size. Therefore, I hope that because of these reasons, Apple will update the whole line at one time - 12, 15, and 17" 1.25GHz Gx (fill in the x).
Originally posted by neutrino23
It has already been reported in the Taiwan trade press that the 15.4" PB is being manufactured. I don't see why the 15" can't get updated now and then the 17" will be updated a few months later. Let's guess that the 15.4" PB gets a 1.25GHz speed bump as some have speculated. That is not such a huge difference from the 17" PB's 1GHz. For a few months you can choose between a little faster processor or a little larger screen.
With five PB models in production now (three screen sizes and some variations) it would be very difficult for Apple to update all of them at once.
Ummm, am I stupid or is 1Ghz to 1.25Ghz a 25% mhz increase??? (Disclaimer: It may be 25% AND I'm stupid. This is yet to be proven)
An extra 250 mhz wouldn't neccessarily make a difference to how fast I can do my work (although I do a lot of work in WebObjects and, lets face it, every little bit counts
I don't think the 15" is far away (too big of a market for it)
I don't think they will allow the 15" to be faster/better than a 17"
I don't think they will get a G5 until January 2004 but I hope we see G5 Powerbooks at the one of the upcoming shows (is there one in September? Are Apple still exhibiting at it??)
My two cents
Originally posted by pooandwee
Ummm, am I stupid or is 1Ghz to 1.25Ghz a 25% mhz increase??? (Disclaimer: It may be 25% AND I'm stupid. This is yet to be proven)
An extra 250 mhz wouldn't neccessarily make a difference to how fast I can do my work (although I do a lot of work in WebObjects and, lets face it, every little bit counts
I don't think the 15" is far away (too big of a market for it)
I don't think they will allow the 15" to be faster/better than a 17"
I don't think they will get a G5 until January 2004 but I hope we see G5 Powerbooks at the one of the upcoming shows (is there one in September? Are Apple still exhibiting at it??)
My two cents
In a perfect world Apple could update any hardware on any desired schedule. As it is, I think they have teams that have their handfuls managing all the different vendors and cultures involved in manufacturing their product.
Suppose the 15" was ready to ship. Would you suggest to Apple that they delay the 15" for a couple of months while they work out a few bugs on an updated 17". I think Apple has to release any available hardware pretty much when it is ready.
1.25GHz is a 25% increase over 1 GHz. However, I doubt you would see a 25% increase in performance, especially in real world applications. IIRC similar speed increases in the G4 towers did not result in linear increases in performance. The G4 still has a memory bus bottle neck and it is still slow to get data off the HD. You could probably boost the performance of either PB a lot by dropping in the new 7200 RPM Hitachi laptop drive.
I tried getting some xbench scores to back up my argument but the site is not responding just now.
Here is a link to a Bare Feats test showing the change in performance when using different drives with a laptop (via FW). 30% or more can be gained by choosing a good HD.
Since the 17" is oversized for most people I guess those who buy it really need the larger display either for presentations or for some kind of work that eats up screen real estate. They shouldn't be put off by a small difference in performance.
Still, I understand your argument. When buying a laptop for yourself you always want the latest and greatest. If you buy a machine today and next month Apple comes out with one a little bit better you still kick yourself for not waiting. Corporate purchasers probably don't feel this remorse. They may feel glad they got something at the tail end as it is likely to have fewer problems.
The sooner they release these speed bumped PB's, the better for switchers like me.
Jaedreth
What if Apple brought the 17-inch pricing down to the 15-inch pricing - two models - $1,999 and $2,599, and did away with the 15-inch model all together?
Originally posted by DHagan4755
A "What If" Question now...
What if Apple brought the 17-inch pricing down to the 15-inch pricing - two models - $1,999 and $2,599, and did away with the 15-inch model all together?
Too big...must ..have...15 inches..hehehe
Originally posted by jaedreth
Wait for January to see anything on this. Wait til March til you can get your hands on one, because even if they try to ship in January or February, Apple is going to seriously underestimate demand because the demand will be intense.
This could be exactly what they want - pent up demand for 15" to accelerate sales on some new initiative (introducing a tablet and removing the 15" from the lineup altogether, say) thereby causing mass media hysteria and a mind-control driven revenue stream based on confusion over what to buy.
If they wait as far as January the demand will be so exhausted that people will be ready to buy something new. "Perhaps a 17-inch PB really isn't too big for my wallet afterall..." or "Maybe I could be more productive with a tablet.."
Originally posted by Beakee
The Windows community has been VERY quiet about the new Centrino Pentium M processors. Why? Because they are rated at much slower clock speeds, but for some strange reason, they are just a s fast as their more "powerful" siblings!!!! Exmaple: The new IBM T40 starts with a 1.4Ghz Pentium M centrino chip that boasts speeds as good as most of the other P4 2.6 Ghz models plus has much better battery life. (All of this, of course, just reinforces the Apple mantra of speed does not equal performance) If Apple gets into the game with a +1Ghz PB I think most people will perceive less of a difference in perfromance.
The sooner they release these speed bumped PB's, the better for switchers like me.
I don't understand your logic. Any Centrino you buy utterly murders any G4 Apple sells. The Mhz myth is a myth. The G4 is a very primitive processor that is outmoded by almost everything. Centrino is so impressive that even with the G5, you will have trouble convincing me of this so called Mhz myth. From IBM's own Dhrystone scores released last fall, the Centrino is faster clock-for-clock than the G5.
From Barefeats:
I tested a 1.3GHz Centrino laptop (12" screen) recently. At first I was going to compare it to the 12" PowerBook. But it ran CineBench 2003 100% faster than the PowerBook G4/1GHz (17" screen). It ran Photoshop 20% faster. It ran Quake3 103% faster in 640x480 "Fastest" mode. The 17" PowerBook did, however, run Quake3 84% faster in 1024x768 "Max" mode. Probably has more video memory. Now why can't we have a 12" PowerBook that runs as fast as a Centrino? Hummm?
The 1.3GHz Centrino is the absolute low-end and can be found in "thin&light" laptops under $1200. Centrinos go up to 1.7GHz and will soon speed past 2GHz with 1MB L2 cache with "Dothan" fabbed at 90 nm later this year.
Oh, and the T40 is capable of 7 hours of real use batterylife. Apple doesn't have anything close to touching that.
Originally posted by Existence
I don't understand your logic. Any Centrino you buy utterly murders any G4 Apple sells. The Mhz myth is a myth. The G4 is a very primitive processor that is outmoded by almost everything. Centrino is so impressive that even with the G5, you will have trouble convincing me of this so called Mhz myth. From IBM's own Dhrystone scores released last fall, the Centrino is faster clock-for-clock than the G5.
From Barefeats:
The 1.3GHz Centrino is the absolute low-end and can be found in "thin&light" laptops under $1200. Centrinos go up to 1.7GHz and will soon speed past 2GHz with 1MB L2 cache with "Dothan" fabbed at 90 nm later this year.
Oh, and the T40 is capable of 7 hours of real use batterylife. Apple doesn't have anything close to touching that.
My "logic" was not that the G4 is a faster processor than the centrino, merely that a faster G4 is a good thing for Apple short term. Also, we all know that a G4 is not as fast as the centrino in most tests, but the slower Ghz rating on the centrino is an affirmation of the misleading hype about processor speeds.
Apple will not win the speed issue. Period. The G5 seems fast, but hey, it's not really even available yet! However, I believe it can compete on issues of features/ease of use/design
Originally posted by Existence
The 1.3GHz Centrino is the absolute low-end and can be found in "thin&light" laptops under $1200. Centrinos go up to 1.7GHz and will soon speed past 2GHz with 1MB L2 cache with "Dothan" fabbed at 90 nm later this year.
Add to this that the current "G4-murdering" Pentium M has a DDR266 memory interface - faster than anything the G4 has, but not that impressive compared to the G5 architecture. When the new ATI Mobility Radeon 9100igp (here too) with dual DDR400 memory interface ships, things will look even more grim for any G4-based PowerBook.
"Year of the PowerBook"? More like "Marketing Fluff to mark the Last Few Weeks of PowerBook Supremacy over Wintel and to Hide Embarrassment at what was then the fastest Apple desktop". Unlessof course a G5 PowerBook is fast approaching...
Do you even own an Apple computer, or are you just here to rustle some feathers? Most of your posts bash Apple and praise PC's. This is getting ridiculous.
Why do you think Apple is trying to switch to IBM exclusively? Sure, they can't do it as quickly as they like, but Apple *wants* to drop Motorola like a bad habit. Motorola doesn't *care* about Apple or its customers. IBM does.
Delphiki,
Apple will *not* drop the 15" PowerBook. Originally, the 12" PowerBook was designed to be an iBook G4, but Marketing changed their minds at the last minute.
So I don't see an iBook G4 coming until all of the PowerBook line move to G5, and I don't see the PowerBook G5 being in a 12" any time soon. So we might see a G5 in a 17", and possibly a 15.2", though not likely soon. At that point, the 12" powerbook will likely be dropped, and the ibook line renovated at long last.
As for this January, I'd expect a revamped PowerBook line all including the new Motorola processors. It's possible they could revamp the iBooks with the *old* processors, but why? Apple's Marketing wants to keep a bold distinction between it's pro and consumer lines, trying to avoid the Performa fiascos again...
iBooks might see a revamped G3 processor, unless we strike gold and they do have PowerBook G5, but if so, goodbye to the PowerBook 12", but the new iBooks would be better than the powerbook 12" in processor, but likely still not offer a superdrive.
Marketing has that much sway over what we get. And their decisions have more to do with "The Apple Image" than with what is good for the customers or what is competitive in the industry. That's why Apple will never sport a black computer casing. It doesn't fit the Apple image.
Originally posted by Delphiki
Well, I don't really think Apple would eliminate the 15" either, but I've heard a number of people say it. Anyway, I don't think it's going to be until January until a rerelease. Looking at the buying guide at macrumors.com, the powerbook is at the end of the average life cycle (the 15" is anyway) and while Apple's image is important to them, so are profits. Releasing a powerbook for back to school will push more units than a powerbook in january. I'm certain I'm not the only person who'd buy a pc if there wasn't an up to date Mac laptop soon. I'm not demanding a G5 or anything, but if the 15" doesn't get upgraded at least to where the 17" is now, hopefully with a faster processor, then I think it'll be a PC for me.
I agree that Apple is not eliminating the PB 15". It's a OS9 booting issue and waiting (again!) for moto (the 7457).
The difference between buying a PC notebook and a PB 15" is builtin Airport Extreme & bluetooth, and DDR that doesn't particularly increase performance?
As far as Apple bashing, I smell trolls here. Trolls - Get a Life!