Strange: The PowerBook 15-inch has gone down to available 1-3 days from 7-10 days. Maybe it won't be updated. If it doesn't get updated next week and the 12- and 17-inch PB get revs, the handwriting is on the wall for the Ti.
There are four thermal zones. Did you watch the video?
I assume the error he is referring to is the intimation in the article that each thermal zone has its own fan, implying 4 fans in total, which is obviously incorrect.
G5 Power... the curves were extrapolated from THREE data points and from typical SOI power consumption curves... and they were the only data points that anyone had at the time... until Rickag found the other IBM document.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but with only three points, one cannot plot a curve, but one can plot a plane. And by looking at the three points chosen, it looks askew...
73% of all statistics are fabricated.
There are three types of lies. Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but with only three points, one cannot plot a curve, but one can plot a plane. And by looking at the three points chosen, it looks askew...
73% of all statistics are fabricated.
There are three types of lies. Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics.
Jaedreth
Right and wrong, mostly wrong. Yes, planes are uniquely determined by three points but that really has nothing to with this discussion. You can not plot a curve by knowing three points. You can interpolate or extrapolate a curve by using any number of points, using La'Grange polynomials, which means that you estimate the curve by finding the polynomial of degree n (where n is the number of points you know) which passes through those points. There are other methods of interpolation or extrapolation you can use depending on exactly what you know about the data you are trying to analyze. In this case we know the data being analyzed probably has a similar curve shape to the same data for other processors, so that could be used.. yaddy yaddy yadda...
As for the fans issue, there are 9 fans, there are 4 thermal zones. Some of those fans are attached to specific devices.
If you're looking at the side view on apple.com/powermac/design.html, the bottom thermal zone is for the power supply. That's one fan.
The next thermal zone is where the processors are. There are two fans prominant almost half way between the front of the case and where the processors reside, sitting next to the ram slots on the side laid logic board. There are two more fans at the back of the case where the two fan grills are, so this thermal zone has 4 fans. Each of those fans are wide.
The next thermal zone is for the PCI cards. Because this is a side view, you cannot see depth or dimension. The fans are only at the front, but there are two there, each taking up half the width of the computer.
Then with the top thermal zone we have the same scenario for the drives. Two fans, but you can only see one because it is a side view.
So unless you know what to look for, you can't see a fan for the power supply thermal zone, you only see two fans for the processor thermal zone, only one fan for the pci thermal zone, and only one for the drive thermal zone.
But there are 9 fans, and 7 of them are computer controlled speed dependent upon tempurature.
Which two are not? The two for the back grill. They would probably run at a constant slow speed for minimal noise output. These two fans will keep the airflow of the entire computer moving, wether fast or slow, in the off case another fan fails.
I hope this illuminates this topic, as I've seen a lot of arguement on this.
There are other methods of interpolation or extrapolation you can use depending on exactly what you know about the data you are trying to analyze. In this case we know the data being analyzed probably has a similar curve shape to the same data for other processors, so that could be used...
This is what was done... you can base extrapolations on three points if you have other data on similar processes. Physics doesn't radically change for these types of devices.
Would like to have had more data points but three was all we had!
I'm surprised no one mentioned Jack's latest yet so here's the link: OEM Pipleline Report
I hope he's completely wrong about the TiBook because I'd be bitterly disappointed if there was no aluminum version. The only reason why I didn't get a Ti before now is because I didn't want all the problems associated with it like poor AirPort performance, flakey display hinge and flaking paint. Would anyone buy a revised Ti? Would you buy it just because they slapped a bit faster processor into it? Would you like it if they kept the same display?
Let's just hope that Jack's July 4th fall did more than injure his collar bone.
Geez, Jack is all over the map!!!! I find this rumor with Apple staying with the Ti hard to believe... actually everything that is on MacWhispers is hard to believe... one bad prediction gets morphed into another one and so on...
Funny Jack has been reporting that Aluminum versions of the 15 inch were on the shelf in Feb. Wonder what happenned to those???
It appears that the entire Powerbook lineup is aimed toward a January 2004 refresh, with all three models (and, perhaps a fourth model) moving to the G5 simultaneously, at that time. We are attempting to second source this report. But, it is at least a solid possibility that not only is no G5 mid-size Powerbook knocking at the door, but that the new model will not even pick up the anodized aluminum styling of its smaller and larger siblings.
I don't doubt a lineup refresh in January 2004, but the fact that the TiBook won't go AL but still be updated seems quite farfetched!
Jack was silly enough on July 4th to think his flabby 45-year old body could keep up with a back yard full of rowdy teenagers, and the result was a severe fall and a broken collar bone... and as much as a month of painful, very slow, one-handed typing.
Scrolling back a bit... is there some natural connection between the release of new hardware and oral auto-eroticism, or is this just a strange custom some of you folks have? Either way, I admire your flexibility. I could manage no such feat upon purchasing my AlBook.
2. Something funny...I read a post here yesterday by someone saying that they weren?t interested in getting a new PowerBook that wasn?t based on the newer, cooler G4 (is it the 7457? I can?t remember). And I got to thinking ?yeah, me too....?.
If I?m going to drop such money, I too want something that I feel is the ?latest? and greatest, as far as inside tech/guts go. I?m not interested in only getting a 100MHz bump and/or aluminum body. That Motorola chip doesn?t seem ready yet (lower power, bettery battery life), so I don?t know if I want to drop $2600 or so on the current stuff).
This weird part of me actually wouldn?t mind if that goon?s latest story is true because it makes my life and decision making MUCH easier: If a 15? PowerBook update is released, say next week or within a month, and it?s STILL Titanium (with all the problems/quirks that entails), then I simply pay a spiffy 12? Combo Drive iBook for the time being. I can do that from savings alone by week after next (with money left over), sell my iMac at my llesires and take the money from it, five months of saving (August-December) and get whatever PowerBook finds its way to us in the first quarter or so of 2004.
It?s just funny that I went to bed last night re-thinking this all and then to hear this today.
Funny Jack has been reporting that Aluminum versions of the 15 inch were on the shelf in Feb. Wonder what happenned to those???
Don't you know that Apple scrapped the entire production run of boxed and ready to go 15" PowerBook G5s back in February so that they could release updated Ti PowerBook G4s in July instead? It's perfectly logical you know...
Comments
Originally posted by chazmox
Rickag! Thanks for the new data point!!! Now that this is more recent, I believe this over the EE Times number.
the EEtimes document had another error in the same sentence:
"... Apple had to design a new enclosure with four independently controlled thermal zones, each with its own fan. "
http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20030623S0092
there are nine fans not four.
the eetimes has been a good article. kept us amused for a few days while waiting for a powerbook product release.
i particularly liked the chazmox excel 2-curve graph extrapolated from a single data point.
interesting thing about the ibm document from february:
www-3.ibm.com/chips/techlib/techlib.nsf/techdocs/7874C7DA8607C0B287256BF3006FBE54/$file/PowerPC_QRG_spreads_7-2-03.pdf
it only mentions a 1.3V 970. the earlier reference to a 1.1V version which might be suitable for a laptop is not there. hmmn...
Originally posted by G5power
the EEtimes document had another error in the same sentence:
"... Apple had to design a new enclosure with four independently controlled thermal zones, each with its own fan. "
there are nine fans not four.
There are four thermal zones. Did you watch the video?
Originally posted by Anonymous Karma
There are four thermal zones. Did you watch the video?
I assume the error he is referring to is the intimation in the article that each thermal zone has its own fan, implying 4 fans in total, which is obviously incorrect.
73% of all statistics are fabricated.
There are three types of lies. Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics.
Jaedreth
Originally posted by jaedreth
Correct me if I'm wrong, but with only three points, one cannot plot a curve, but one can plot a plane. And by looking at the three points chosen, it looks askew...
73% of all statistics are fabricated.
There are three types of lies. Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics.
Jaedreth
Right and wrong, mostly wrong. Yes, planes are uniquely determined by three points but that really has nothing to with this discussion. You can not plot a curve by knowing three points. You can interpolate or extrapolate a curve by using any number of points, using La'Grange polynomials, which means that you estimate the curve by finding the polynomial of degree n (where n is the number of points you know) which passes through those points. There are other methods of interpolation or extrapolation you can use depending on exactly what you know about the data you are trying to analyze. In this case we know the data being analyzed probably has a similar curve shape to the same data for other processors, so that could be used.. yaddy yaddy yadda...
If you're looking at the side view on apple.com/powermac/design.html, the bottom thermal zone is for the power supply. That's one fan.
The next thermal zone is where the processors are. There are two fans prominant almost half way between the front of the case and where the processors reside, sitting next to the ram slots on the side laid logic board. There are two more fans at the back of the case where the two fan grills are, so this thermal zone has 4 fans. Each of those fans are wide.
The next thermal zone is for the PCI cards. Because this is a side view, you cannot see depth or dimension. The fans are only at the front, but there are two there, each taking up half the width of the computer.
Then with the top thermal zone we have the same scenario for the drives. Two fans, but you can only see one because it is a side view.
So unless you know what to look for, you can't see a fan for the power supply thermal zone, you only see two fans for the processor thermal zone, only one fan for the pci thermal zone, and only one for the drive thermal zone.
But there are 9 fans, and 7 of them are computer controlled speed dependent upon tempurature.
Which two are not? The two for the back grill. They would probably run at a constant slow speed for minimal noise output. These two fans will keep the airflow of the entire computer moving, wether fast or slow, in the off case another fan fails.
I hope this illuminates this topic, as I've seen a lot of arguement on this.
Jaedreth
Originally posted by Delphiki
There are other methods of interpolation or extrapolation you can use depending on exactly what you know about the data you are trying to analyze. In this case we know the data being analyzed probably has a similar curve shape to the same data for other processors, so that could be used...
This is what was done... you can base extrapolations on three points if you have other data on similar processes. Physics doesn't radically change for these types of devices.
Would like to have had more data points but three was all we had!
I hope he's completely wrong about the TiBook because I'd be bitterly disappointed if there was no aluminum version. The only reason why I didn't get a Ti before now is because I didn't want all the problems associated with it like poor AirPort performance, flakey display hinge and flaking paint. Would anyone buy a revised Ti? Would you buy it just because they slapped a bit faster processor into it? Would you like it if they kept the same display?
Let's just hope that Jack's July 4th fall did more than injure his collar bone.
Geez, Jack is all over the map!!!! I find this rumor with Apple staying with the Ti hard to believe... actually everything that is on MacWhispers is hard to believe... one bad prediction gets morphed into another one and so on...
Funny Jack has been reporting that Aluminum versions of the 15 inch were on the shelf in Feb. Wonder what happenned to those???
It appears that the entire Powerbook lineup is aimed toward a January 2004 refresh, with all three models (and, perhaps a fourth model) moving to the G5 simultaneously, at that time. We are attempting to second source this report. But, it is at least a solid possibility that not only is no G5 mid-size Powerbook knocking at the door, but that the new model will not even pick up the anodized aluminum styling of its smaller and larger siblings.
I don't doubt a lineup refresh in January 2004, but the fact that the TiBook won't go AL but still be updated seems quite farfetched!
Jack was silly enough on July 4th to think his flabby 45-year old body could keep up with a back yard full of rowdy teenagers, and the result was a severe fall and a broken collar bone... and as much as a month of painful, very slow, one-handed typing.
Get ViaVoice, Jack.
1. This guy is Ryan Meader?s father
2. Something funny...I read a post here yesterday by someone saying that they weren?t interested in getting a new PowerBook that wasn?t based on the newer, cooler G4 (is it the 7457? I can?t remember). And I got to thinking ?yeah, me too....?.
If I?m going to drop such money, I too want something that I feel is the ?latest? and greatest, as far as inside tech/guts go. I?m not interested in only getting a 100MHz bump and/or aluminum body. That Motorola chip doesn?t seem ready yet (lower power, bettery battery life), so I don?t know if I want to drop $2600 or so on the current stuff).
This weird part of me actually wouldn?t mind if that goon?s latest story is true because it makes my life and decision making MUCH easier: If a 15? PowerBook update is released, say next week or within a month, and it?s STILL Titanium (with all the problems/quirks that entails), then I simply pay a spiffy 12? Combo Drive iBook for the time being. I can do that from savings alone by week after next (with money left over), sell my iMac at my llesires and take the money from it, five months of saving (August-December) and get whatever PowerBook finds its way to us in the first quarter or so of 2004.
It?s just funny that I went to bed last night re-thinking this all and then to hear this today.
Originally posted by chazmox
OMG!
Funny Jack has been reporting that Aluminum versions of the 15 inch were on the shelf in Feb. Wonder what happenned to those???
Don't you know that Apple scrapped the entire production run of boxed and ready to go 15" PowerBook G5s back in February so that they could release updated Ti PowerBook G4s in July instead? It's perfectly logical you know...
"Rather than hope (sic) on the "we expect" bandwagon, we chose to wait until we had solid information, prior to publishing."
What a loser.