They have reduced prices with PowerBook revisions in the past. Just ask anyone who had just purchased a new 800MHz TiBook a week before it was speed bumped. They're likely still VERY upset about it.
When the 667/800 (DVI) line replaced the 550/667 (VGA), the prices increased from $2,199 and $2,999 to $2,499 and $3,199. I think there's about a 50-50 chance of prices either staying where they are or going up slightly. I don't think they'll go any lower; Apple knows there is a pent-up demand for this model and will price them accordingly.
True, they are stamped I didn't suggest otherwise. The my point was that titanium is expensive to deal with.
And my point was that some ways are far more expensive than others. The stamped Ti cases are definitely more expensive than the aluminum ones, but you're looking at the difference between a slight premium for stamping and outrageous expense for casting (which requires machining as well).
Quote:
Titanium is not lighter (pound for pound) than aluminum but it is stronger this allows it to be used in smaller dimensions for the same strength.
How can one material be lighter than another pound for pound? I assume you meant by volume?
Haha I don't think anything is lighter than anything else pound for pound.
i have a neice that we still tease about this...we asked her, "now think carefully about this. what is lighter, a ton of lead or a ton of feathers"...she answered back quite quickly and in her full west virginia accent: "duh, a ton of feathers!"
to this day the answer to any stupid question is "duh, a ton of feathers"
g
ps...new powerbooks tomorrow?? really?? just keeping on subject
i have a neice that we still tease about this...we asked her, "now think carefully about this. what is lighter, a ton of lead or a ton of feathers"...she answered back quite quickly and in her full west virginia accent: "duh, a ton of feathers!"
to this day the answer to any stupid question is "duh, a ton of feathers"
g
Sometimes the brian pan gets low on oil.... When I was writing that phrase it seemed to make sense.... honest it did.
Kaspar has something on the PBs on the main page: AppleInsider Most of this stuff is what we've seen posted elsewhere so Kaspar's post amounts to a nice compilation and synthesis of several tidbits.
It'll sure be nice to get beyond depending on Motorola for chips.
"Steve Jobs, is said to be so irate over the issue, he often uses profanity when expressing his displeasure with the semi-conductor sector of Motorola."
Steve Jobs, is said to be so irate over the issue, he often uses profanity when expressing his displeasure with the semi-conductor sector of Motorola.
I'm envisioning...
Quote:
Those ****heads at "Scumarola" are ****ing up the works. I wish the G5 chip was ready for the PowerBook so I could to go tell Motorola to stick it up their ass.
Kaspar has something on the PBs on the main page: AppleInsider Most of this stuff is what we've seen posted elsewhere so Kaspar's post amounts to a nice compilation and synthesis of several tidbits.
It'll sure be nice to get beyond depending on Motorola for chips.
Except that it is common knowledge by now that the 7457 will have a 167 Mhz bus, not a 200 Mhz bus.
Except that it is common knowledge by now that the 7457 will have a 167 Mhz bus, not a 200 Mhz bus.
Why, because of Mot's recent PDF? A few months ago, it was common knowledge that the 7457 was limited to a 200 MHz FSB, then about a month ago Mot's site stated the 7457 would use a 133 MHz bus, and now, most recently, mentioned 167 MHz. Ah, but in that same PDF, there was mention of a 200 MHz L3 bus. Maybe that means the 7457 can use 2MB DDR400 SRAM.
What Mot publishes isn't necessarily what it'll ship to OEMs.
According to the latest Appleinsider news, Motorola sucks. Apple was hoping to release the Powerbook update at WWDC, then pushed it back to MacWorld NY and still hasn't seen enough supply of the new chips to release the product.
Steve's got to be peeved.
But reading a bit further into it, if Apple generally updates their products every six months or so, and they hoped to have updated at WWDC and then later at MacWorld in July... to me that would mean they are hoping on another update in January at the latest (MWSF). Could that mean that the G5 still might ship in January (why hold it back if it's ready to go?).
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Apple will announce Powerbook G5 machines in September, ship in October.
Why, because in 2002 when Apple asked Motorola when 1.3 GHz 7457 chips would be available in at least 50k CPUs per month quantities, hoping for an April 2003 answer, Motorola came back with a Q4 2003 answer. Hugely disappointed, Apple decided to go on a crash program to put the PPC 970 into Powerbooks and eat a 3 to 5 month delay in their Powerbook update cycle. Ok, I made the preceding up, but totally realistic, no?
Hehe. Now if only they went on a crash program to put the 970 into a Powerbook...
Been thinking about this as much as anybody. Steve's gotta be peeved at something else: Not only has Apple lost months of sales, but now they're expected to load Panther in these Pbooks - a whole lot of lost upgrade sales. Also, as has been mentioned, now the G5 PB seems within reach, even I'm thinking about waiting a little longer. Heck, 2-3 years from now there's likely to be lots of tasty stuff that won't run on a lowly 32-bit processor\
Why, because in 2002 when Apple asked Motorola when 1.3 GHz 7457 chips would be available in at least 50k CPUs per month quantities, hoping for an April 2003 answer, Motorola came back with a Q4 2003 answer. Hugely disappointed, Apple decided to go on a crash program to put the PPC 970 into Powerbooks and eat a 3 to 5 month delay in their Powerbook update cycle.
Could it be that you are right? Could it be that Jack Campbell and MacWhispers is right too? Think about it for a second. Apple has had to know that the 7457 was producing poor yields months and months ago. Since Apple buys tons of G4s, I'm sure they have more than their fare share of updates from Motorola on the progress of the 7457. Given that Steve is now using profanity to vent about the 7457, it could lend validation of Jack Campbell's story. Follow me here for a sec:
1. We know that Apple needs a newer, cooler G4 that consumes less power for the next laptop because the 7455 has reached its tolerable limit in a portable at 1 GHz.
2. Sometime in the early part of 2003, after MWSF, Apple learns through their contacts at Moto that the 7457 is producing poor yields. Weeks pass, and it still appears that the yields issue is still plaguing the production of the 7457 and its release date is slipping. Steve is gnashing his teeth in absolute disgust. He asks engineers to do what they can to work an IBM 970 processor into the PowerBook, knowing it's hot and power hungry. He's doing this just as a worst case plan B.
Quote:
From MacWhispers - April 10th
We have been told, and we have also second-sourced a claim that bid requests for a fully-designed 970-based board for the 17-inch PowerBook were received by two assembly plants this past Friday, with a submission deadline for replies of April 30th. We will add that our sources seem consistently taken aback by what they all characterize as the unexpected and very unusual hurry involved in all work on these new desktop and portable Apple products. Every step in each process is being scheduled far tighter than is normal for a new production run.
3. The PowerBook G5 has been engineered, motherboards complete, but the current chip is too hot. Advanced samples of the 970+ work perfectly but won't be ready for quite some time. They put the PowerBook G5 on hold; wait for news from Moto.
4. Memorial Day is near and Moto's problems persist. The planned revamp of the PowerBook line at WWDC in June is unlikely because of issues with the 7457. Steve is getting more and more pissed. Moto's problems throw into jeopardy of an iMac update too. Steve is like "screw it," we've got to move on. More plan B stuff.
Quote:
From MacWhispers - June 1st
Several knowledgeable Apple OEM channel sources have hinted that Apple is aggressively reengineering every product in the lineup to adopt IBM chips as soon as possible. Word is that this across the board transition could be completed by as soon as Spring of 2004.
4. WWDC is close. G5 Power Mac is ready and shines. No new PowerBooks. Pushed back until July because they wait for Moto. Moto is saying that they should be ready for August. Apple decides to can a Stevenote at MacWorld Creative because they cannot rely on Moto's ability to be accurate and on-time. Apple can't be sure that shipping 7457s will be in quantity for the new PowerBooks, so why bother announce and risk delays?
5. Apple knows from on-going work with IBM that the G5s will be produced and ready in late August. They can depend on IBM. They announce the G5 at WWDC.
6. MacWorld Creative comes and goes. Problems with yields persist at Moto with the 7457.
Quote:
"Motorola promised Apple sufficient quantities of the 7457 by mid-May 2003 but they have yet to deliver on these claims," one source told AppleInsider. Apparently, Motorola continues to experience problems with their 0.13 micron process and are seeing very poor yields of the faster 7457 chips.
While Apple has PowerBook G4 units ranging from 1GHz to 1.3GHz ready for production, their supply of 7457 chips has been far short of what would be required to back a new product launch. Apple CEO and co-founder, Steve Jobs, is said to be so irate over the issue, he often uses profanity when expressing his displeasure with the semi-conductor sector of Motorola.
We should applaud your summary, very nice. so mabe 50/50 that a pb 970 will be available in the months to come, If jobs is cussing moto, most ceo would have a parallel track with option b to execute. remember it's a hot market, timing is everything we are coming into back to school/university and christmas. if no new product going into these seasons without competitive product, people may have to reverse-switch as has been discussed by others. I am apple loyal since 1984 with the mac plus, i've only had to own a windoz dell laptop because of proprietary software, but as we move to broadband and webbased product i'll will sell this dell and by another apple. I'm planning on getting my wife an iPod, and laptop. do you have any idea if the superdrive will be upgraded as well????
Two to three years is a long life for a laptop. I try to upgrade roughly every two years.
My lombard from '99 would still be chugging along nicely if some absentminded twit (no, not me) didn't spill coke all over it. It still works but needs a hard reset a few times a day. Also, mine was made in the few months when daughtercards we'd later find out were incompatible with OSX were being slapped in. I would like to update more often but, unless I get an unexpected salary hike, it ain't gonna happen.
We should applaud your summary, very nice. so mabe 50/50 that a pb 970 will be available in the months to come, If jobs is cussing moto, most ceo would have a parallel track with option b to execute. remember it's a hot market, timing is everything we are coming into back to school/university and christmas. if no new product going into these seasons without competitive product, people may have to reverse-switch as has been discussed by others. I am apple loyal since 1984 with the mac plus, i've only had to own a windoz dell laptop because of proprietary software, but as we move to broadband and webbased product i'll will sell this dell and by another apple. I'm planning on getting my wife an iPod, and laptop. do you have any idea if the superdrive will be upgraded as well????
Please, let's not start giving Jack too much credit again (remember the video iPod rumor)... but maybe there is some truth in there about early 970 PB production...
Comments
Titanium is not lighter (pound for pound) than aluminum but it is stronger this allows it to be used in smaller dimensions for the same strength.
Haha I don't think anything is lighter than anything else pound for pound.
Originally posted by murbot
They have reduced prices with PowerBook revisions in the past. Just ask anyone who had just purchased a new 800MHz TiBook a week before it was speed bumped. They're likely still VERY upset about it.
When the 667/800 (DVI) line replaced the 550/667 (VGA), the prices increased from $2,199 and $2,999 to $2,499 and $3,199. I think there's about a 50-50 chance of prices either staying where they are or going up slightly. I don't think they'll go any lower; Apple knows there is a pent-up demand for this model and will price them accordingly.
Originally posted by taliesin
True, they are stamped I didn't suggest otherwise. The my point was that titanium is expensive to deal with.
And my point was that some ways are far more expensive than others.
Titanium is not lighter (pound for pound) than aluminum but it is stronger this allows it to be used in smaller dimensions for the same strength.
How can one material be lighter than another pound for pound?
Originally posted by recondite
Haha I don't think anything is lighter than anything else pound for pound.
i have a neice that we still tease about this...we asked her, "now think carefully about this. what is lighter, a ton of lead or a ton of feathers"...she answered back quite quickly and in her full west virginia accent: "duh, a ton of feathers!"
to this day the answer to any stupid question is "duh, a ton of feathers"
g
ps...new powerbooks tomorrow?? really??
Originally posted by thegelding
i have a neice that we still tease about this...we asked her, "now think carefully about this. what is lighter, a ton of lead or a ton of feathers"...she answered back quite quickly and in her full west virginia accent: "duh, a ton of feathers!"
to this day the answer to any stupid question is "duh, a ton of feathers"
g
What I meant to say was......
It'll sure be nice to get beyond depending on Motorola for chips.
Steve Jobs, is said to be so irate over the issue, he often uses profanity when expressing his displeasure with the semi-conductor sector of Motorola.
I'm envisioning...
Those ****heads at "Scumarola" are ****ing up the works. I wish the G5 chip was ready for the PowerBook so I could to go tell Motorola to stick it up their ass.
Originally posted by Rolo
Kaspar has something on the PBs on the main page: AppleInsider Most of this stuff is what we've seen posted elsewhere so Kaspar's post amounts to a nice compilation and synthesis of several tidbits.
It'll sure be nice to get beyond depending on Motorola for chips.
Except that it is common knowledge by now that the 7457 will have a 167 Mhz bus, not a 200 Mhz bus.
Originally posted by TWinbrook46636
Except that it is common knowledge by now that the 7457 will have a 167 Mhz bus, not a 200 Mhz bus.
Why, because of Mot's recent PDF? A few months ago, it was common knowledge that the 7457 was limited to a 200 MHz FSB, then about a month ago Mot's site stated the 7457 would use a 133 MHz bus, and now, most recently, mentioned 167 MHz. Ah, but in that same PDF, there was mention of a 200 MHz L3 bus. Maybe that means the 7457 can use 2MB DDR400 SRAM.
What Mot publishes isn't necessarily what it'll ship to OEMs.
Steve's got to be peeved.
But reading a bit further into it, if Apple generally updates their products every six months or so, and they hoped to have updated at WWDC and then later at MacWorld in July... to me that would mean they are hoping on another update in January at the latest (MWSF). Could that mean that the G5 still might ship in January (why hold it back if it's ready to go?).
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Apple will announce Powerbook G5 machines in September, ship in October.
Why, because in 2002 when Apple asked Motorola when 1.3 GHz 7457 chips would be available in at least 50k CPUs per month quantities, hoping for an April 2003 answer, Motorola came back with a Q4 2003 answer. Hugely disappointed, Apple decided to go on a crash program to put the PPC 970 into Powerbooks and eat a 3 to 5 month delay in their Powerbook update cycle. Ok, I made the preceding up, but totally realistic, no?
Hehe. Now if only they went on a crash program to put the 970 into a Powerbook...
Originally posted by THT
Why, because in 2002 when Apple asked Motorola when 1.3 GHz 7457 chips would be available in at least 50k CPUs per month quantities, hoping for an April 2003 answer, Motorola came back with a Q4 2003 answer. Hugely disappointed, Apple decided to go on a crash program to put the PPC 970 into Powerbooks and eat a 3 to 5 month delay in their Powerbook update cycle.
Could it be that you are right? Could it be that Jack Campbell and MacWhispers is right too? Think about it for a second. Apple has had to know that the 7457 was producing poor yields months and months ago. Since Apple buys tons of G4s, I'm sure they have more than their fare share of updates from Motorola on the progress of the 7457. Given that Steve is now using profanity to vent about the 7457, it could lend validation of Jack Campbell's story. Follow me here for a sec:
1. We know that Apple needs a newer, cooler G4 that consumes less power for the next laptop because the 7455 has reached its tolerable limit in a portable at 1 GHz.
2. Sometime in the early part of 2003, after MWSF, Apple learns through their contacts at Moto that the 7457 is producing poor yields. Weeks pass, and it still appears that the yields issue is still plaguing the production of the 7457 and its release date is slipping. Steve is gnashing his teeth in absolute disgust. He asks engineers to do what they can to work an IBM 970 processor into the PowerBook, knowing it's hot and power hungry. He's doing this just as a worst case plan B.
From MacWhispers - April 10th
We have been told, and we have also second-sourced a claim that bid requests for a fully-designed 970-based board for the 17-inch PowerBook were received by two assembly plants this past Friday, with a submission deadline for replies of April 30th. We will add that our sources seem consistently taken aback by what they all characterize as the unexpected and very unusual hurry involved in all work on these new desktop and portable Apple products. Every step in each process is being scheduled far tighter than is normal for a new production run.
3. The PowerBook G5 has been engineered, motherboards complete, but the current chip is too hot. Advanced samples of the 970+ work perfectly but won't be ready for quite some time. They put the PowerBook G5 on hold; wait for news from Moto.
4. Memorial Day is near and Moto's problems persist. The planned revamp of the PowerBook line at WWDC in June is unlikely because of issues with the 7457. Steve is getting more and more pissed. Moto's problems throw into jeopardy of an iMac update too. Steve is like "screw it," we've got to move on. More plan B stuff.
From MacWhispers - June 1st
Several knowledgeable Apple OEM channel sources have hinted that Apple is aggressively reengineering every product in the lineup to adopt IBM chips as soon as possible. Word is that this across the board transition could be completed by as soon as Spring of 2004.
4. WWDC is close. G5 Power Mac is ready and shines. No new PowerBooks. Pushed back until July because they wait for Moto. Moto is saying that they should be ready for August. Apple decides to can a Stevenote at MacWorld Creative because they cannot rely on Moto's ability to be accurate and on-time. Apple can't be sure that shipping 7457s will be in quantity for the new PowerBooks, so why bother announce and risk delays?
5. Apple knows from on-going work with IBM that the G5s will be produced and ready in late August. They can depend on IBM. They announce the G5 at WWDC.
6. MacWorld Creative comes and goes. Problems with yields persist at Moto with the 7457.
"Motorola promised Apple sufficient quantities of the 7457 by mid-May 2003 but they have yet to deliver on these claims," one source told AppleInsider. Apparently, Motorola continues to experience problems with their 0.13 micron process and are seeing very poor yields of the faster 7457 chips.
While Apple has PowerBook G4 units ranging from 1GHz to 1.3GHz ready for production, their supply of 7457 chips has been far short of what would be required to back a new product launch. Apple CEO and co-founder, Steve Jobs, is said to be so irate over the issue, he often uses profanity when expressing his displeasure with the semi-conductor sector of Motorola.
7. Here we are today. Waiting for Motorola.
Originally posted by neutrino23
Two to three years is a long life for a laptop. I try to upgrade roughly every two years.
My lombard from '99 would still be chugging along nicely if some absentminded twit (no, not me) didn't spill coke all over it. It still works but needs a hard reset a few times a day. Also, mine was made in the few months when daughtercards we'd later find out were incompatible with OSX were being slapped in. I would like to update more often but, unless I get an unexpected salary hike, it ain't gonna happen.
Originally posted by NOFEER
We should applaud your summary, very nice. so mabe 50/50 that a pb 970 will be available in the months to come, If jobs is cussing moto, most ceo would have a parallel track with option b to execute. remember it's a hot market, timing is everything we are coming into back to school/university and christmas. if no new product going into these seasons without competitive product, people may have to reverse-switch as has been discussed by others. I am apple loyal since 1984 with the mac plus, i've only had to own a windoz dell laptop because of proprietary software, but as we move to broadband and webbased product i'll will sell this dell and by another apple. I'm planning on getting my wife an iPod, and laptop. do you have any idea if the superdrive will be upgraded as well????
Please, let's not start giving Jack too much credit again (remember the video iPod rumor)... but maybe there is some truth in there about early 970 PB production...