Holocaust inspired by Martin Luther?

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
I just found this out. Evidently, Martin Luther was a notorious anti-Semite and wrote a 200 page essay explaining how synagogues should be burned, and Jews imprisoned and forced into labour. This was one of the major influences on pre-war Germany.



I'm wondering if anyone would like to comment on this. Did you all know? Any Lutherans here? Are you mature enough to denounce Luther yet accept his contribution to your church, or would you choose to deny that Luther was a terrible, terrible man.



My, how times change.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 28
    brbr Posts: 8,395member
    Source please?
  • Reply 2 of 28
    anandanand Posts: 285member
    What? That is stupid, MLK only really came to prominence after WWII. And why would Hitler listen to a black man?





  • Reply 3 of 28
    Try Martin Luther, author of the 95 Thesis and the beginning of the Protestant Reformation in 1500s, not Martin Luther King
  • Reply 4 of 28
    buonrottobuonrotto Posts: 6,368member
    He was kidding.



    I wouldn't be surprised, though the Nazis may have distorted Luther's words, much like they did Neitchke (sp?) and countless others to fit their twisted world view. For all I know, Luther could have called Jews "sinners" much like the Vaticans refers to gays, but still called for compassion towrds them. On the other hand, there's a lot of cruelty and hate in history too.
  • Reply 5 of 28
    ast3r3xast3r3x Posts: 5,012member
    I'm Lutheran...display some back up.
  • Reply 6 of 28
    Similarily, Henry Ford was pretty big anti-Semite, should we stop buying these cars? Or stop buying Volkswagens? Do we blame the organization on the beliefs of an indvidual who founded it?
  • Reply 7 of 28
    brbr Posts: 8,395member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by JimDreamworx

    Similarily, Henry Ford was pretty big anti-Semite, should we stop buying these cars? Or stop buying Volkswagens? Do we blame the organization on the beliefs of an indvidual who founded it?



    Well, when it's a religious organization and the person who inspired/created it is the individual in question...yes.



    Anyway, I'd like to see the sources.
  • Reply 8 of 28
    chinneychinney Posts: 1,019member
    There were strong threads of anti-semitism in a good deal of Christian thought in the last millenium. I don't think that this is a surprise to anyone.



    As to sources about Martin Luther in particular, try this:

    http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/ant...r_on_Jews.html
  • Reply 9 of 28
    chu_bakkachu_bakka Posts: 1,793member
    Well... this answers the question of the original post.



    A letter to the Jewish Community from The Evangelical Lutheran Church...



    http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/ant...lutheran1.html





    "In the spirit of that truth-telling, we who bear his name and heritage must with pain acknowledge also Luther's anti-Judaic diatribes and the violent recommendations of his later writings against the Jews. As did many of Luther's own companions in the sixteenth century, we reject this violent invective, and yet more do we express our deep and abiding sorrow over its tragic effects on subsequent generations. In concert with the Lutheran World Federation, we particularly deplore the appropriation of Luther's words by modern anti-Semites for the teaching of hatred toward Judaism or toward the Jewish people in our day.



    Grieving the complicity of our own tradition within this history of hatred, moreover, we express our urgent desire to live out our faith in Jesus Christ with love and respect for the Jewish people. We recognize in anti-Semitism a contradiction and an affront to the Gospel, a violation of our hope and calling, and we pledge this church to oppose the deadly working of such bigotry, both within our own circles and in the society around us. Finally, we pray for the continued blessing of the Blessed One upon the increasing cooperation and understanding between Lutheran Christians and the Jewish community. "
  • Reply 10 of 28
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 18,020member
    Well, I was baptized Lutheran. I don't follow it anymore.



    There has been considerable historic debate on this topic from what I understand. I remember a professor in college giving a seminar on his most recent research project...a dissertation on anti-semitism in Johann Sebastian Bach's music...who was obviously a Lutheran. As far as Luther is concerned, I don't think it's an open and shut case. Tonton...where is the link?
  • Reply 11 of 28
    chu_bakkachu_bakka Posts: 1,793member
    Well that letter from the Lutheran Church is pretty clear... He was an anti-semite.
  • Reply 12 of 28
    ast3r3xast3r3x Posts: 5,012member
    Not sticking up for him, but like they said in the first article they used more powerful language back then and it today looks horrible. But honestly, anyone who is that deep based in religion would have negative views on others of other religions.
  • Reply 13 of 28
    chu_bakkachu_bakka Posts: 1,793member
    That's putting it rather mildly. Negative views? Like he just preferred his religion over others? It was a different time and atmosphere but that doesn't really get him off. It doesn't reflect poorly on current lutherans.
  • Reply 14 of 28
    giaguaragiaguara Posts: 2,724member
    So? He was an anti-semitist and used the BIBLE to demonstrate to the Jews that he was right and the Jews were wrong. Their own book! So? It was hundreds of years ago, and I would want to see the humanity and religions have gone to the next level of existance meanwhile. I coulnd't care less, I'm not a prostitu.. protestant.
  • Reply 15 of 28
    pfflampfflam Posts: 5,053member
    Christianity was filled with Anti-semitism from the first few centuries of its existence on . . . early in Roman Christianity there was allready semi-institutionalized anti-semitism . . . but even then there were also voices against it.



    Augustine himself was surprisingly quite the Christian henchman. Promoting the forcible conversion of some heathens
  • Reply 16 of 28
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,757member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by tonton

    I just found this out. Evidently, Martin Luther was a notorious anti-Semite and wrote a 200 page essay explaining how synagogues should be burned, and Jews imprisoned and forced into labour. This was one of the major influences on pre-war Germany.



    I'm wondering if anyone would like to comment on this. Did you all know? Any Lutherans here? Are you mature enough to denounce Luther yet accept his contribution to your church, or would you choose to deny that Luther was a terrible, terrible man.



    My, how times change.




    Well, since tonton is in a Luther bashing mode, I wonder, would you have the balls to say exactly what you did, but about Muhammed instead. What he said and wrote about jews was also inflamatory and hateful at times, and his actions against them far beyond anything Luther might have written.



    So how about it, will you ask Muslims to denounce Mohammed's teachings and actions, or if they would deny he was "terrible, terrible man".



    I've editted out the last part of my post. The last statement was an unfair accusation against tonton.
  • Reply 17 of 28
    pfflampfflam Posts: 5,053member
    I think Buddha is just about spottless: all the other religions . . . out the door wid'em



  • Reply 18 of 28
    noahjnoahj Posts: 4,503member
    What exactly is the point of this thread? Is Martin Luther or Calvin somehow a replacement for the true figurehead of Christianity, Jesus Christ? I don't think so. This is all a sideshow that while it looks damning to some is a clear example of why we don't, and shouldn't follow humans,any humans, blindly. The bible is there, pick it up, read it and find the truth for yourself. It is not hidden.
  • Reply 19 of 28
    eugeneeugene Posts: 8,254member
    Quote:

    I don't like hypocrisy



  • Reply 20 of 28
    aquafireaquafire Posts: 2,758member
    The thing is to remember that all men( & women ) are fallable. We are often blind to our own prejudices as much as we are products of our own cultural paradigms.



    That Martin Luther was anti-Jewish is pretty evident, but then so were most christians & muslims at various times in their collective histories.



    Both those faiths required the Jews pay special protective taxes etc in order to be allowed to remain relatively unmolested. These days we'd call it extortion or blackmail.



    As a result Jewish communities were often "ghetto-ised " and prohibited to own, possess or occupy particular properties,or run certain types of business. Jews in general had to live within very tight economic & social rules as set down by their dominant Christian or Muslim " hosts ". This sort of socio-political oppression was often meant to be a subtle way of forcing the Jewish communities into exile.



    To keep their heads above water, many Jews turned to " usury " as a way of making a living. Since both faiths ( muslim & christian ) considered the handling of money as " unclean ", it fell to the Jews to fill this occupational gap.



    But paradoxically, " usury " gave the Jews some unexpected " power " of interaction with their otherwise difficult hosts. Many royal houses of Europe owned their continuing viability to such jewish money lenders.



    King Richard ( the Lion heart ) of England was able to continue his Crusades, only thanks to the money loaned to him by London's Jewish community.



    And I haven't even touched on the alleged jewish " blood Libel " an issue which would have been very familiar to Martin Luther..



    Yes, Martin Luther was indeed anti-jewish but as to whether he was the catalyst to the modern holocaust..?



    I would have to say he that if he could have witnessed the resulting "use" of his words by others: then I have no doubt he would have tossed his diatribe into the flames without a second's hesitation..



    Such is the benefit of history , we can all be wise in hindsight.
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