I finally hit "Checkout" on my new Mac
Well, I did it. MONTHS of fingernail chomping, sweating, and comparison on-line shopping. And now i will FINALLY get a new mac for work at home (and maybe some nice entertainment value, too).
many of you are familiar with my constant online pondering on this issue, and i was chatting with a friend of mine over this via IM, and we basically came to the same conclusion that lowendmac.com came to re: all the models. it comes down to a "price vs. punch" decision. if you can afford it, buy the dual g5, without question. but if you can't, go with the dual g4, as it is the overall best value of the bunch. anything in between is a total crap shoot until better specs and benchmarks come out (and i need to get to work ASAP).
also, NO ONE has the g5's yet, except for a few lucky educational retailers and the occasional apple store. so even if i wanted a single or dual g5, i may be waiting another 2-3 weeks before i can get my hands on one, and then BTO would probably be another 7-10 business days. ACK!
whereas i can have a dual g4 by end of next week. in those 2-3 weeks, i can probably earn back the cash i spent on the g4, so even if it turns out to be a mistake, i'll soon recoup the money and be able to buy a g5 by january. i have also saved enough money to BUY a low-end ibook on the side if i like. (p.s. it helps my wife is a teacher... educational discounts ROCK!)
so, anyway, onto the spec list. you know, i would have paid a hundred dollars just to get this off my mind last week and $20 per day since last week to have ordered it already and be expecting it tomorrow. proving the old adage "every day you delay try to squeeze and extra $100 out of your computer purchase is another day you go without a computer."
as it stands, it'll be here in 7-10 business days. "it" consists of the following:
dual-1.25 GHz G4 tower
I opted for dual, since it will be easier to upgrade it to another dual G4 later, if necessary. By the time dual 1.25 GHz G4's become "too slow" for my purposes, I'll get whatever G5 is shipping at that time within my budget.
80 GB Hard Drive
I will be buying a 120 GB extra drive to supplement it, which will net me 200 GB of space for what I could have bought from Apple for the same price (edit: and get only 160 GB.)
512 MB RAM
I could have ratcheted this down to 256 MB, but that's fairly unusable under OS X, and if I ever decide to fill up all the slots on this for added performance, I would end up throwing out a 256 MB DIMM. (edit: i can also get another 512 MB RAM chip for about 20-30 less than apple's prices through crucial.com)
Combo DVD-ROM/CD-RW -- and no second optical drive
SuperDrive sounds nice, but you give up some CD burning speed in the trade-off. Since I don't even have a source for video or any paying client work in video (or, uh, any EXPERIENCE in video), it would have been a hobbyist novelty at best. Hopefully 8x SuperDrives will be prevalent and cheap when I finally need to use it (and I'll just buy it external at that time) (edit: i also learned from my last job that while having an internal cd-burner is nice, an external one reaps massive benefits if you need to shuttle it between computers for burning purposes. so if i need another burner later on, it can be external and my wife can use it on her laptop, too)
GeForce4 Titanium w/ 128 MB
Really the jewel of the specs, IMHO. This card still kicks all others out there except the Radeon 9800. If the 9800 wasn't so bloody expensive, I might have been tempted by a G5 with the Radeon, but that just proved too expensive a mix for the budget. and i want this card to last the life of the computer. if i got a radeon 9000, i have to think i'd be fretting over pulling it for added boost in performance a year from now. i don't think i'll have the same issues with the geforce ti.
UltraSCSI PCI card and cable
Why? First, I already own a LaCie 12x4x32x SCSI CD burner. An amazing workhorse. I can also attach my old zip and jaz drives to the chain for added flexibility. Plus, since this is the card/cable combo that Apple has been shipping as BTO for the last two years, I have to think they'll support it at least through the next couple of OS revisions. Even if they don't, it was only $45.
56k modem
This was for added resale value ONLY. Take it out, and it becomes difficult to sell it cheap later on to someone who might not have broadband, and, contrary to the peer-pressure tactics of many DSL and cable modem access companies, not every NEEDS or even CAN GET broadband, due to location, etc.
things i give up (besides the obvious g5):
bluetooth
don't need it right now. and if i find i do need it now, i can add a usb dongle later (orangemicro sells one fairly cheap)
airport extreme
in a desktop??? until they come up with cordless power for a desktop, i'll already have one cord going into the machine, so why not another? plus, why hassle with any less bandwidth just because i want to save on a cord. sure, i could set the machine up as a software base station for my pismo, but that means the machine has to always be on, which i can't guarantee.
pci-x
well, so far, i don't see any cards on the horizon that make me need this feature.
serial ata
up to 50% faster, but also usually 50% more expensive. i'd rather get several smaller drives, a ata/133 card, stripe the drives and eek out that performance with the extra space in the g4. more work, though. either way, with web design and prepress production work, i just don't need serial ata right now.
larger ram capacity
again, 2 gb of ram is all i need for at least the next year.
you'll notice that if i were in video or extensive 3d work, i would have bought the dual g5 with ALL the extras without thinking twice.
That's it. No software (the Final Cut Express for $99 was tempting, but by the time I actually get a chance to experiment with it, they'll have version 2.0 or 3.0 shipping). Games looked cool, but I think I may need to look on-line for eval copies before i commit more money (wink-wink).
edit: any way you look at it, it's a big step up from the pismo 500 with 256 mb ram i have been using so far. if i didn't need to start work int he next two weeks, i might have held out longer, but that is no longer an option. cross your fingers for a quick build-to-order fulfillment, folks (and yes, i paid for fedex next day).
Now I get to buy a monitor. The LaCie 19" Blue is a no-brainer at $389. Only question I have is, should I get the refurb version for $200? I already have a hood. LaCie's refurb warranty is not very forgiving, though (90-days, i think).
And probably a printer. I am eyeing a Laserwriter 8500 for $400. Tabloid 1200 dpi printing with full postscript level 3 support for $400. Anyone want to chime in on that decision? Only issue is that it is used, but covered under 30-day warranty.
Next few weeks are gonna get interesting.
many of you are familiar with my constant online pondering on this issue, and i was chatting with a friend of mine over this via IM, and we basically came to the same conclusion that lowendmac.com came to re: all the models. it comes down to a "price vs. punch" decision. if you can afford it, buy the dual g5, without question. but if you can't, go with the dual g4, as it is the overall best value of the bunch. anything in between is a total crap shoot until better specs and benchmarks come out (and i need to get to work ASAP).
also, NO ONE has the g5's yet, except for a few lucky educational retailers and the occasional apple store. so even if i wanted a single or dual g5, i may be waiting another 2-3 weeks before i can get my hands on one, and then BTO would probably be another 7-10 business days. ACK!
whereas i can have a dual g4 by end of next week. in those 2-3 weeks, i can probably earn back the cash i spent on the g4, so even if it turns out to be a mistake, i'll soon recoup the money and be able to buy a g5 by january. i have also saved enough money to BUY a low-end ibook on the side if i like. (p.s. it helps my wife is a teacher... educational discounts ROCK!)
so, anyway, onto the spec list. you know, i would have paid a hundred dollars just to get this off my mind last week and $20 per day since last week to have ordered it already and be expecting it tomorrow. proving the old adage "every day you delay try to squeeze and extra $100 out of your computer purchase is another day you go without a computer."
as it stands, it'll be here in 7-10 business days. "it" consists of the following:
dual-1.25 GHz G4 tower
I opted for dual, since it will be easier to upgrade it to another dual G4 later, if necessary. By the time dual 1.25 GHz G4's become "too slow" for my purposes, I'll get whatever G5 is shipping at that time within my budget.
80 GB Hard Drive
I will be buying a 120 GB extra drive to supplement it, which will net me 200 GB of space for what I could have bought from Apple for the same price (edit: and get only 160 GB.)
512 MB RAM
I could have ratcheted this down to 256 MB, but that's fairly unusable under OS X, and if I ever decide to fill up all the slots on this for added performance, I would end up throwing out a 256 MB DIMM. (edit: i can also get another 512 MB RAM chip for about 20-30 less than apple's prices through crucial.com)
Combo DVD-ROM/CD-RW -- and no second optical drive
SuperDrive sounds nice, but you give up some CD burning speed in the trade-off. Since I don't even have a source for video or any paying client work in video (or, uh, any EXPERIENCE in video), it would have been a hobbyist novelty at best. Hopefully 8x SuperDrives will be prevalent and cheap when I finally need to use it (and I'll just buy it external at that time) (edit: i also learned from my last job that while having an internal cd-burner is nice, an external one reaps massive benefits if you need to shuttle it between computers for burning purposes. so if i need another burner later on, it can be external and my wife can use it on her laptop, too)
GeForce4 Titanium w/ 128 MB
Really the jewel of the specs, IMHO. This card still kicks all others out there except the Radeon 9800. If the 9800 wasn't so bloody expensive, I might have been tempted by a G5 with the Radeon, but that just proved too expensive a mix for the budget. and i want this card to last the life of the computer. if i got a radeon 9000, i have to think i'd be fretting over pulling it for added boost in performance a year from now. i don't think i'll have the same issues with the geforce ti.
UltraSCSI PCI card and cable
Why? First, I already own a LaCie 12x4x32x SCSI CD burner. An amazing workhorse. I can also attach my old zip and jaz drives to the chain for added flexibility. Plus, since this is the card/cable combo that Apple has been shipping as BTO for the last two years, I have to think they'll support it at least through the next couple of OS revisions. Even if they don't, it was only $45.
56k modem
This was for added resale value ONLY. Take it out, and it becomes difficult to sell it cheap later on to someone who might not have broadband, and, contrary to the peer-pressure tactics of many DSL and cable modem access companies, not every NEEDS or even CAN GET broadband, due to location, etc.
things i give up (besides the obvious g5):
bluetooth
don't need it right now. and if i find i do need it now, i can add a usb dongle later (orangemicro sells one fairly cheap)
airport extreme
in a desktop??? until they come up with cordless power for a desktop, i'll already have one cord going into the machine, so why not another? plus, why hassle with any less bandwidth just because i want to save on a cord. sure, i could set the machine up as a software base station for my pismo, but that means the machine has to always be on, which i can't guarantee.
pci-x
well, so far, i don't see any cards on the horizon that make me need this feature.
serial ata
up to 50% faster, but also usually 50% more expensive. i'd rather get several smaller drives, a ata/133 card, stripe the drives and eek out that performance with the extra space in the g4. more work, though. either way, with web design and prepress production work, i just don't need serial ata right now.
larger ram capacity
again, 2 gb of ram is all i need for at least the next year.
you'll notice that if i were in video or extensive 3d work, i would have bought the dual g5 with ALL the extras without thinking twice.
That's it. No software (the Final Cut Express for $99 was tempting, but by the time I actually get a chance to experiment with it, they'll have version 2.0 or 3.0 shipping). Games looked cool, but I think I may need to look on-line for eval copies before i commit more money (wink-wink).
edit: any way you look at it, it's a big step up from the pismo 500 with 256 mb ram i have been using so far. if i didn't need to start work int he next two weeks, i might have held out longer, but that is no longer an option. cross your fingers for a quick build-to-order fulfillment, folks (and yes, i paid for fedex next day).
Now I get to buy a monitor. The LaCie 19" Blue is a no-brainer at $389. Only question I have is, should I get the refurb version for $200? I already have a hood. LaCie's refurb warranty is not very forgiving, though (90-days, i think).
And probably a printer. I am eyeing a Laserwriter 8500 for $400. Tabloid 1200 dpi printing with full postscript level 3 support for $400. Anyone want to chime in on that decision? Only issue is that it is used, but covered under 30-day warranty.
Next few weeks are gonna get interesting.
Comments
What was your old one?
Man get an apple display! they are one of the best LCDs out there
The 8500 is also excellent. I've had mine for about 4 years now and it's a damn solid workhorse. Had a few problems in that time...blown fuser, replaced rollers...but nothing out of the ordinary for how much stuff I've pushed through that thing.
Congrats!
Combo DVD-ROM/CD-RW -- and no second optical drive
Good choice. For less than what Apple charges you to just upgrade the Combo to a SuperDrive, you can buy the exact same drive elsewhere and install it in the second bay. You've then got both drives for less than you'd have paid Apple for the SuperDrive alone.
p.s. the old computers include the following:
iMac DV 400 (original graphite), with 512 MB RAM, iSub, MacAlly keyboard, Contour Designs UniMouse, Agfa SnapScan 1212u, and Graphire (original) 4x5 tablet -- sold that bundle last fall for CAN$1200 (which went towards this computer purchase; gotta love that apple resale value, huh?)
pismo 500 is my current computer at home (though it's usually my wife's). only 256 MB of RAM, so it thrashes a lot (especially when entourage goes to pick up the mail). still runs jaguar, though, and keeps me in touch on this board and others. dvd-rom drive, too. thinking about getting a $99 original airport card to stick in it, and some more RAM. should be a nice internet browsing and word processor computer with all that.
Also have a PowerMac 7300 and 6400 in a closet. I am looking into getting a cheap 400-500 MHz G4 upgrade for the 7300, a firewire/usb combo card, and radeon pci video card, and have a great os 9 machine on the network, which can also act as a router and photoshop 6 machine (with all my old ps6 filters that will never be upgraded again... *sniff*)
Originally posted by 709
The LaCie 19"ers are great. I've got 4
The 8500 is also excellent. I've had mine for about 4 years now and it's a damn solid workhorse. Had a few problems in that time...blown fuser, replaced rollers...but nothing out of the ordinary for how much stuff I've pushed through that thing.
Congrats!
yep, i think the lacie is the one for me. only $5 shipping, too. hard to beat that. you have FOUR?!? on different computers, i assume.
i think i'm gonna hold off on the printer, though. the shipping was gonna cost me anywhere between $40 and $100, depending on how quick i wanted it, due to its large size. plus, it's just "used," not refurbished, which means there's no guarantee other than the 30-day and non-DOA guarantee from megamacs.com (which is where i would get it). finally, if anything DID happen in those first thirty days, i would have to pack it up and send it back, probably at high cost to me. that'd be close to half the cost of my overall price just in shipping, if it turned out to have problems. i don't have to be an expert in risk management to know that the deck is stacked against me there. i would probably buy it if it were a local dealer where i could go pick it up and return it under my own (cheap) power.
Now, if you were going to get a set of good, decently cheap speakers, what would you get? i can get the harmon-kardon isub AND soundsticks refurbished for $99 (plus $3 shipping), or the jbl creature system for $129 (plus $0 to $23 shipping, depending on turnaround time - i would probably just do the free 5 day shipping)
Originally posted by T'hain Esh Kelch
You might want to know that it is impossible to upgrade a G4 to a G5, without changing the entire motherboard...
actually, you can upgrade from a g4 to a g5... it just costs $2000.
seriously, i know the g4 is a dead-end eventually with regards to upgrading, but there have been serious hints from apple that the g5's are just as dead-ended. and i just don't need all that horsepower right now. i may need it in a year or so, by which point i would hope to have earned at least a couple thousand dollars from work on the g4 to pay for a g5 then. and then i get to play with all the super doodads on the "g5 extreme" in fall 2004!
Originally posted by rok
actually, you can upgrade from a g4 to a g5... it just costs $2000.
Well.. Doh.. Didnt think of that one!
happy happy joy joy!
now for a wonderful day of installing ram, hard drives, peripherals, applications and games!
you know you are pathetic when the above sound like FUN!
Originally posted by rok
YES!!!! It's HEEEEEEERE!!!!!
happy happy joy joy!
now for a wonderful day of installing ram, hard drives, peripherals, applications and games!
you know you are pathetic when the above sound like FUN!
Congrats on the new G4! I think it's smart to stick with the G4 with its current performance and value. By the time you tire of it, the G5 will have matured nicely, as well as the software that'll be optimized for it.
I am curious though, is your new tower quiet? I know Apple fixed the noise issues with the MDD G4 towers a while back, but was wondering how these current Dual G4 Towers *really* sounded in person.
I ask because I was thinking of getting one through work (for a huge discount) to have an OS 9 booting machine (since OS X refuses to copy my iTunes collection to any PC formatted HD where OS 9 will) and a quiet computer is very important to me and I am not one to place towers on the floor.
Thanks, and have fun setting her up!
Now I get to buy a monitor. The LaCie 19" Blue is a no-brainer at $389. Only question I have is, should I get the refurb version for $200? I already have a hood. LaCie's refurb warranty is not very forgiving, though (90-days, i think).
I have a 19" Lacie for sale. $100 bucks. I wanna get rid of it. I have a 19" LCD already. Want it?
e-mail me:
[email protected]
Originally posted by dstranathan
I have a 19" Lacie for sale. $100 bucks. I wanna get rid of it. I have a 19" LCD already. Want it?
e-mail me:
[email protected]
unfortunately, had you asked me last wednesday, i would ahve jumped at it. instead, i downgraded my new lacie blueIV to a refurb for $150 less. it's on its way now (though it is for some reason STUCK at the fedex facility at the new orleans airport... guess that's the kind of service you get when you opt for the cheapest possible shipping... sigh)
Originally posted by Patchouli
I am curious though, is your new tower quiet? I know Apple fixed the noise issues with the MDD G4 towers a while back, but was wondering how these current Dual G4 Towers *really* sounded in person.
i will let you know. i am attempting to clear a spot for it now, but i only have my very old 17" monitor to hook up to it now (see previous post re: my 19" lacie). currently, i work on my wife's pismo, which has always had a drive in it that gives me a headache from its constant high pitched noise while it spins... drives me nuts. considering the fact that they, according to apple, JUST built this machien last week, i am assuming it has the new quieter fan and power supply combos. again, i'll let you know.
first, it's so FAST! i am giddy! seriously, i know a dual g5 would be faster, but this feels like when i went from a 603e starmax with 64 mb of ram to a 400 mhz g3 with 512 mb of ram. YES! i am very happy so far.
re: the noise of the fans...
well, yeah, it's noticeable. it is VERY noticeable if you boot into os 9. i will rarely do this, other than to play some old mac os 9 games once in a while. i know audio engineers wouldn't stand for this fan noise, even under os x, but for regular use, it is fine for me. boot into os 9, and it does sound like an airplane taking off.
however, it WILL scale down after it finishes booting. apparently, one of the original problems was that the fans would run at top speed 100% of the time under os 9 and os x. that would have been intolerable.
i now see why the geforce4 titanium is not in the imac... it is HUGE!!! a full 12" long. you'd have to build an extra wing on the imac to accommodate its size.
they installed my ultra scsi card, but FORGOT the 25-to-50 pin adapter. guess i gotta rattle someone's cage tomorrow morning.
but, again, i have to say that i am very happy with this machine. i'm sure photoshop will have it crawling within 3 years, but i will enjoy it until then.
yeah!
Originally posted by rok
i will rarely do this, other than to play some old mac os 9 games once in a while.
Curious: Can't you run those games under Classic in OS X? I still play WarCraft II and OS X runs it under Classic. It runs it a bit slow, ok too slow on my Mac as I have a 350 MHz PowerMac hence my reason to boot into OS 9 to play it, but with yours it would be a different story.
Originally posted by iPeon
Curious: Can't you run those games under Classic in OS X? I still play WarCraft II and OS X runs it under Classic. It runs it a bit slow, ok too slow on my Mac as I have a 350 MHz PowerMac hence my reason to boot into OS 9 to play it, but with yours it would be a different story.
in cases of games, processor speed is only one piece to the puzzle. ever run a classic app, and then scrubbed the dock so the icons grew and shrank over the classic window? then you know of the "eraser effect." there are still some serious lag and screen refresh problems under classic right now when running under os x. it doesn't render games unplayable, but since classic is double-buffered under panther, it should be utterly unnecessary to boot into os 9 following 10.3 (or that's my hope, anyway).
i didn't really want os 9 bootability (is that a word?), but it came standard witht he latest g4 towers, so i guess it's a "feature." i will require it for those programs where i have an os x upgrade, but the original installer is still os 9 only (and this is the case in many respects for me).