But not to forget: A 90nm PPC 970 is also quite definitely needed in order to get PowerBooks and iMacs to G5, because of the heat issues.
Exactly. I think that 90nm G5's in Pbooks and iMacs is more important than a speedbump for the Powermacs. Personally, I think Jobs is being very conservative when he mentions G5 powerbooks by the end of 04. If Jobs said G5 Powerbooks in 4 months, would anyone buy the G4 Powerbooks? They're closer than the estimates they leed us to believe. That's my paranoid conspiracy theory.
What if the original plan was to release the G5 in 90nm fab @2,5GHz in spring 2004 and until than use the G4 with up to 1,8GHz. When SJ found out that Moto (once again) cannot deliver he asked IBM to deliver whatever they have ready - the G5 130nm @ 2GHz. In this scenario a big jump from 2 GHz to 3 GHz within 1 year could be possible.
IBM: Whatever they say about the release date of new products they sure will meet it.
Moronola: Whatever they say about the release date of new products, consider it's a great act from God if they can deliver on time. Consider being lucky if they can deliver two years later. Consider normal if they can't deliver anything at all.
Now, if every employee @ IBM have taken speed and the mild crack at the same time, then the 1Ghz increase could be had. But because Apple smokes weed, high-quality of course, shipping will occur 2 months after that.
mild crack? is it something people in the US are used to use? like the stuff you called weed?
i always thought that crack is so highly addictive you won't be interested in anything else than scoring it. meaning no 1Ghz increase in a year ever because everybody @ ibm has become a stinking junkie.
don't you mean cocaine? a mix of coke and speed is relatively popular in some club scene's. and isn't as distructive as crack or heroin.
about apple's drugs problem: if it is californian weed they'll use, it's actually no problem. no delay at all. because it's exactly what it's named: grass. (now you know where dogcow came from)
but if somebody @ apple decided to import some "nederweed"...
this stuff knocked snoop doggy dog off stage during a concert a couple of years ago at paradiso, amsterdam. he got completly offline after he inhaled twice. i wouldn't believe it if it wasn't on national television he became pale as a ghost. so i assume this will trash our beloved fruit company. so forget about drugs, please. it sucks in combination with work.
IBM: Whatever they say about the release date of new products they sure will meet it.
Moronola: Whatever they say about the release date of new products, consider it's a great act from God if they can deliver on time. Consider being lucky if they can deliver two years later. Consider normal if they can't deliver anything at all.
but if somebody @ apple decided to import some "nederweed"...
this stuff knocked snoop doggy dog off stage during a concert a couple of years ago at paradiso, amsterdam. he got completly offline after he inhaled twice. i wouldn't believe it if it wasn't on national television he became pale as a ghost. so i assume this will trash our beloved fruit company. so forget about drugs, please. it sucks in combination with work.
Doggie fizzled on the Televizzle?! Sweet!
Please tell me there's a link to that somewhere. Besides the fact that it would be cool to see Snoop knocked on his rump (the man has smoked more than some countries), seeing a black man go pale as a ghost has gotta be a once in a lifetime experience.
Even if IBM could deliver 3GHz 970s to Apple by MWSF, Apple would probably pass on it until it would be assured an equal speed-up in an equal time period afterwards. So Apple may go to 2.5GHz then, knowing that it will achieve 3GHz 6 months later. Given a technical reality, this is a marketing decision to show continued and steady progress.
Precisely! I've pointed out the same thing in the past. Of course, with Moto, this strategy was necessary. With IBM, who knows?
unless they smoke salvia. From what some sources tell me, it gets you high for like 15-30 min. But then comes the great part!!!!!!!!! You can think better than you evcer could when u were sober. So big problems could be tackled in a weekend or something. problem is the effect kinda wears off if you smoke it too much. as in more than once a month.
IBM is currently sampling 90 nanometer chips using SOI, and plans to ship those chips in the fourth quarter, said Scott Sykes, an IBM spokesman.
Also a page 2 story at Macrumors says:
"An anonymous/unverified report claims that Apple has already been seeded sample 90nm PowerPC 970s this month. Reportedly, they run from 1.8GHz to 3.2GHz and heat production is significant improved, with a 2GHz at only 34W, down from 57W. The 3.2GHz chip reportedly at 71W.
Target volume production for 90nm is reported to be in Q2 of 2004. Heat considerations are still a major issue for the upcoming PowerBook and dual G4's are still considered a possibility."
The first part is straight from an IBM spokesman... sounds real promising for G5 Powerbooks by midyear 2004... perhaps even duals.
IBM made a public commitment to 3Ghz within a year - I have no doubt that it will be there, and on a 90 nm chip.
The interesting factor is what will happen between now and then. I can see a chip around 2.6 Ghz within 6 months of the G5's original release to keep sales moving in the PB line. What I would like to know is the performance increase related to that speed bump. I've read that a 10% speed increase in a Pentium chip results in only a 2 - 3% increase in performance. If IBM beats that then a 2.6 Ghz chip is well worth releasing. By then Apple will have the G5 production lines running smoothly and introducing the speed bump will probably be a smooth introduction.
The other issue will be related to the iMacs and PB's. You know that Steve J wants these to be speed demons and I doubt if there will be any delays in getting them to market.
So it all boils down to what IBM can deliver, and how fast. I don't relate their performance to Moto's level and think that there will be some rather exciting announcements before summer. It's time to hang on and enjoy the ride.
That 3.2 gighz number is lookin' awfully good. (Salivating...)
From 100mhz G4 bumps yearly to...
...
Madness. Rev a, B or C!!!
Looks like Apple and IBM have AMD and Intel outgunned.
Be pretty awesome next summer to have a low end 2 gig, mid dual 2.5 and a high end 3.2 gig G5!!!
Stunning. I'm kinda hopin' they can do it earlier than predicted and surprise everybody.
Steve Jobs said '3 gig'. Be great to have a '3.2' to get past the 'conservative' number.
I'm putting the cash down on a Rev B G5 and 20 inch monitor. I'm getting very itchy feet at the moment. I'm giving the dual 2 gig' a loooooooooooong, HARD look. I'd rather buy when Panther is bedded in with optimised apps and maybe even a new ATI card in the new year!
Must re-sist...m-u-st...re-...
It's great to hear 'progress' even if only in whispers.
I hope Rev B comes at San Fran'. That's when I should be able to afford to buy.
IBM has to be feeling really good about their progress if they have their spokesman commenting on it. They don't announce they are doing something and then blow it (like Moto).
Mr. Bon Bon, I don't know what everyone else around here thinks of you, but your posts make me excited to be an Apple owner. I don't care if this is all just idle speculation. Your optimism is infectious!
It is my understanding that the IBM Power 5 presentation at Microprocessor Forum 2003 will cause cascading puddles of drool to form on the shirt fronts of most readers of this forum.
It is my understanding that the IBM Power 5 presentation at Microprocessor Forum 2003 will cause cascading puddles of drool to form on the shirt fronts of most readers of this forum.
Why? Are they going to talk about what it means (if anything) for the PPC970 family?
Keep in mind that Intel has the Pentium 5 and 6 stacked up for hitting the market in mid-'04 and mid-'05, and they are talking about huge caches and 5+ GHz clock rates. Possibly x86-64 as well. IBM is going to be busy keeping up.
AMD, on the other hand, is looking somewhat troubled.
Keep in mind that Intel has the Pentium 5 and 6 stacked up for hitting the market in mid-'04 and mid-'05, and they are talking about huge caches and 5+ GHz clock rates. Possibly x86-64 as well. IBM is going to be busy keeping up.
AMD, on the other hand, is looking somewhat troubled.
Intel has a lot of really smart people working for them. . . enough to dig them out of the architectural mess that is the x86. But I am somewhat skeptical about the 5Ghz P5, or whatever you want to call it. Honestly, I think the whole chip speed binge is coming to an end. To tell you the truth I am more interested in advanced g3's and g4's than g5's.
Throw a cheap yet capable 90nm G4 into really sleek product (that also happens to be nice a cheap) and Apple has themselves a nice machine. I think consumers don't want to play video games on computers anymore, so there's no point in giving it super-awesome power just to run Safari and an office suite. The guys at pc boards with penis envy can point fingers at it at say that it's slow, but let's face it. . . having 1000 horsepower in a Honda Civic is stupid and beside the point. . . For 90% of what I do I want a friendly computer that can do simple things in a pretty environment, not a space-heater.
So run an ad campaign that has a P5 box next to a hairdryer, with wires everywhere and juxtaposed in an avant garde setting. Then show the next gen iMac in the same setting and cool glass of water or something. But seriously, I think the bulk of the iMac market would be very susceptible to such advertising.
The flaw in your reasoning is that you assume that what is refered to as "common senses" is common
Sure elegant iMacs with sensible performance will sell, but Apple need to have towering testosterone products as well. Not only 970 blade servers for the render farms and servers but also towers with blistering speeds.
The flaw in your reasoning is that you assume that what is refered to as "common senses" is common
Sure elegant iMacs with sensible performance will sell, but Apple need to have towering testosterone products as well. Not only 970 blade servers for the render farms and servers but also towers with blistering speeds.
No, it's fine to have fast chips, but I just voicing a distaste (and rambling) over the inevitability of the P5, and for that matter the G5, both of which run pretty hot. (I assume the P5 will have a higher energy density than the sun. . . literally and seriously). The G5 may itself be in that boat.
Comments
Originally posted by pscates
WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
<snip>
An entire GHz in 6 months, when it takes them - in some cases - an entire damn year to go 100MHz?
<snip>
But we are talking about IBM here.....the 100MHz year was with the cell-phone guys!
Originally posted by jdbon2
But not to forget: A 90nm PPC 970 is also quite definitely needed in order to get PowerBooks and iMacs to G5, because of the heat issues.
Exactly. I think that 90nm G5's in Pbooks and iMacs is more important than a speedbump for the Powermacs. Personally, I think Jobs is being very conservative when he mentions G5 powerbooks by the end of 04. If Jobs said G5 Powerbooks in 4 months, would anyone buy the G4 Powerbooks? They're closer than the estimates they leed us to believe. That's my paranoid conspiracy theory.
What if the original plan was to release the G5 in 90nm fab @2,5GHz in spring 2004 and until than use the G4 with up to 1,8GHz. When SJ found out that Moto (once again) cannot deliver he asked IBM to deliver whatever they have ready - the G5 130nm @ 2GHz. In this scenario a big jump from 2 GHz to 3 GHz within 1 year could be possible.
IBM: Whatever they say about the release date of new products they sure will meet it.
Moronola: Whatever they say about the release date of new products, consider it's a great act from God if they can deliver on time. Consider being lucky if they can deliver two years later. Consider normal if they can't deliver anything at all.
Originally posted by willywalloo
Now, if every employee @ IBM have taken speed and the mild crack at the same time, then the 1Ghz increase could be had. But because Apple smokes weed, high-quality of course, shipping will occur 2 months after that.
mild crack? is it something people in the US are used to use? like the stuff you called weed?
i always thought that crack is so highly addictive you won't be interested in anything else than scoring it. meaning no 1Ghz increase in a year ever because everybody @ ibm has become a stinking junkie.
don't you mean cocaine? a mix of coke and speed is relatively popular in some club scene's. and isn't as distructive as crack or heroin.
about apple's drugs problem: if it is californian weed they'll use, it's actually no problem. no delay at all. because it's exactly what it's named: grass. (now you know where dogcow came from)
but if somebody @ apple decided to import some "nederweed"...
this stuff knocked snoop doggy dog off stage during a concert a couple of years ago at paradiso, amsterdam. he got completly offline after he inhaled twice. i wouldn't believe it if it wasn't on national television he became pale as a ghost. so i assume this will trash our beloved fruit company. so forget about drugs, please. it sucks in combination with work.
Originally posted by Leonis
To make things simpler
IBM: Whatever they say about the release date of new products they sure will meet it.
Moronola: Whatever they say about the release date of new products, consider it's a great act from God if they can deliver on time. Consider being lucky if they can deliver two years later. Consider normal if they can't deliver anything at all.
Originally posted by gar
but if somebody @ apple decided to import some "nederweed"...
this stuff knocked snoop doggy dog off stage during a concert a couple of years ago at paradiso, amsterdam. he got completly offline after he inhaled twice. i wouldn't believe it if it wasn't on national television he became pale as a ghost. so i assume this will trash our beloved fruit company. so forget about drugs, please. it sucks in combination with work.
Doggie fizzled on the Televizzle?! Sweet!
Please tell me there's a link to that somewhere. Besides the fact that it would be cool to see Snoop knocked on his rump (the man has smoked more than some countries), seeing a black man go pale as a ghost has gotta be a once in a lifetime experience.
Originally posted by *l++
Even if IBM could deliver 3GHz 970s to Apple by MWSF, Apple would probably pass on it until it would be assured an equal speed-up in an equal time period afterwards. So Apple may go to 2.5GHz then, knowing that it will achieve 3GHz 6 months later. Given a technical reality, this is a marketing decision to show continued and steady progress.
Precisely! I've pointed out the same thing in the past. Of course, with Moto, this strategy was necessary. With IBM, who knows?
how did we end up on drugs at ibm again?
http://www.macrumors.com/page2/
IBM is currently sampling 90 nanometer chips using SOI, and plans to ship those chips in the fourth quarter, said Scott Sykes, an IBM spokesman.
Also a page 2 story at Macrumors says:
"An anonymous/unverified report claims that Apple has already been seeded sample 90nm PowerPC 970s this month. Reportedly, they run from 1.8GHz to 3.2GHz and heat production is significant improved, with a 2GHz at only 34W, down from 57W. The 3.2GHz chip reportedly at 71W.
Target volume production for 90nm is reported to be in Q2 of 2004. Heat considerations are still a major issue for the upcoming PowerBook and dual G4's are still considered a possibility."
The first part is straight from an IBM spokesman... sounds real promising for G5 Powerbooks by midyear 2004... perhaps even duals.
The interesting factor is what will happen between now and then. I can see a chip around 2.6 Ghz within 6 months of the G5's original release to keep sales moving in the PB line. What I would like to know is the performance increase related to that speed bump. I've read that a 10% speed increase in a Pentium chip results in only a 2 - 3% increase in performance. If IBM beats that then a 2.6 Ghz chip is well worth releasing. By then Apple will have the G5 production lines running smoothly and introducing the speed bump will probably be a smooth introduction.
The other issue will be related to the iMacs and PB's. You know that Steve J wants these to be speed demons and I doubt if there will be any delays in getting them to market.
So it all boils down to what IBM can deliver, and how fast. I don't relate their performance to Moto's level and think that there will be some rather exciting announcements before summer. It's time to hang on and enjoy the ride.
From 100mhz G4 bumps yearly to...
...
Madness. Rev a, B or C!!!
Looks like Apple and IBM have AMD and Intel outgunned.
Be pretty awesome next summer to have a low end 2 gig, mid dual 2.5 and a high end 3.2 gig G5!!!
Stunning. I'm kinda hopin' they can do it earlier than predicted and surprise everybody.
Steve Jobs said '3 gig'. Be great to have a '3.2' to get past the 'conservative' number.
I'm putting the cash down on a Rev B G5 and 20 inch monitor. I'm getting very itchy feet at the moment. I'm giving the dual 2 gig' a loooooooooooong, HARD look. I'd rather buy when Panther is bedded in with optimised apps and maybe even a new ATI card in the new year!
Must re-sist...m-u-st...re-...
It's great to hear 'progress' even if only in whispers.
I hope Rev B comes at San Fran'. That's when I should be able to afford to buy.
Got some Apple shares to sell...
Lemon Bon Bon
Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
Whooooa-Oh, excitable boy
Mr. Bon Bon, I don't know what everyone else around here thinks of you, but your posts make me excited to be an Apple owner. I don't care if this is all just idle speculation. Your optimism is infectious!
So yeah. That's enough ass kissing outta me
Originally posted by shawk
It is my understanding that the IBM Power 5 presentation at Microprocessor Forum 2003 will cause cascading puddles of drool to form on the shirt fronts of most readers of this forum.
Why? Are they going to talk about what it means (if anything) for the PPC970 family?
AMD, on the other hand, is looking somewhat troubled.
Originally posted by Programmer
Keep in mind that Intel has the Pentium 5 and 6 stacked up for hitting the market in mid-'04 and mid-'05, and they are talking about huge caches and 5+ GHz clock rates. Possibly x86-64 as well. IBM is going to be busy keeping up.
AMD, on the other hand, is looking somewhat troubled.
Intel has a lot of really smart people working for them. . . enough to dig them out of the architectural mess that is the x86. But I am somewhat skeptical about the 5Ghz P5, or whatever you want to call it. Honestly, I think the whole chip speed binge is coming to an end. To tell you the truth I am more interested in advanced g3's and g4's than g5's.
Throw a cheap yet capable 90nm G4 into really sleek product (that also happens to be nice a cheap) and Apple has themselves a nice machine. I think consumers don't want to play video games on computers anymore, so there's no point in giving it super-awesome power just to run Safari and an office suite. The guys at pc boards with penis envy can point fingers at it at say that it's slow, but let's face it. . . having 1000 horsepower in a Honda Civic is stupid and beside the point. . . For 90% of what I do I want a friendly computer that can do simple things in a pretty environment, not a space-heater.
So run an ad campaign that has a P5 box next to a hairdryer, with wires everywhere and juxtaposed in an avant garde setting. Then show the next gen iMac in the same setting and cool glass of water or something. But seriously, I think the bulk of the iMac market would be very susceptible to such advertising.
The flaw in your reasoning is that you assume that what is refered to as "common senses" is common
Sure elegant iMacs with sensible performance will sell, but Apple need to have towering testosterone products as well. Not only 970 blade servers for the render farms and servers but also towers with blistering speeds.
Originally posted by DrBoar
Splinemodel
The flaw in your reasoning is that you assume that what is refered to as "common senses" is common
Sure elegant iMacs with sensible performance will sell, but Apple need to have towering testosterone products as well. Not only 970 blade servers for the render farms and servers but also towers with blistering speeds.
No, it's fine to have fast chips, but I just voicing a distaste (and rambling) over the inevitability of the P5, and for that matter the G5, both of which run pretty hot. (I assume the P5 will have a higher energy density than the sun. . . literally and seriously). The G5 may itself be in that boat.
And lastly, good marketing can sell anything.