Oddly enough, many Mac users don't even read Mac-oriented message boards every day, eagerly hunting for clues about what's coming up next.
WhAt??
Some people with OS X on their machines don't give a dang about upgrading, either. I've got a friend (We'll call him "Mike") who bought a G4 iMac when they first came out. The thing has been so stable and good for him, he doesn't want to botch it up by installing updates. "Mike" took my 10.2 disks home for a few days, then brought them back, unused. He's perfectly happy, and one day, he'll buy a new Mac, with OS 10.whatever on it, and leave that OS on the machine until it rots as well.
He doesn't obsessively surf Mac boards, either. There's just no getting through to some people...
hey, somedays, i wish i didn't have the bruises that came with switching up to mac os x.0, x.1, and x.2. but i will tell you, when all of these holdouts finally make the leap and need someone to answer their questions, i'll have the answers... and the scars to prove it.
So I take it too much NeXT = too much UNIX. If Linux was even half of what Mac OS X is, Microsoft would be dead. OS X is a great system, it runs Classic apps, it runs X11 apps, it runs JAVA apps very nicely. Now all we need is something like the Classic layer for x86. I remember something like that for Rhapsody called the Red Box. Oh well, 10.4? \
They could have built OS X on the BeOS. Wouldn't have to worry about permissions because it was still single user even after the BONE network stack was implemented in Dano. Oh well. Mac OS X 11.1?
I can't argue with already having what you need and sticking with it. That's a smart move. But how exactly does having over 200 apps qualify as only "basic computer needs"?
Heh, good point! It's just what I have accumulated since I've had my computer. I really only use a subset of that regularly. Suffice to say, I am quite covered in my needs several times over. I'm not greatly motivated to disturb that disposition.
Now not having access to ITMS is kind of annoying, of course. If Apple is going to use that just to lure me over, they can lick me. I'll manage to do without. They don't seem to have a problem with coming up with a Windows version (where they could similarly stand their ground and say, "No, you can't have this unless you get OSX"), but they'll hang out their own older users to dry? That double-standard irks me, though I completely understand that others may see the situation differently (more justified).
Things that don't work in Classic that work with a machine rebooted in OS9
Web cam drivers, printer drivers, in my ase Diablo II, the carbon version doesn't work on my eMac, even though it runs just fine on my wifes. They changes something over the last 8 months. There's a totally new video system on the new emacs.
I still do all of my audio work in OS 9 since audio applications don't work in classic. I will probably do so for a long time to come since I don't have an unlimited amount of money to spend on upgrading little piece of software I've become dependent on.
Of course, music is only one of the things I do on my machine, and a bit of my video work depends on unix programs and apps with no GUI, so I'm almost always in OS X.
I think the problem is most people aren't computer nerds, and take the stance "If it aint broken, don't fix it" when in comes to technology.
Also, when 60% of Mac users aren't running OS X, it's most likely a large percentage of those people aren't even running OS 9. People generally only use the operating system their system comes bundled with, so you guys are right. Those people with B&W G3s and iMacs that are still running OS 8 aren't going to be using X until they buy a new machine.
If 40% of Mac users are already using OS X, that's dam good in my opinion. Most of these people didn't need to upgrade their OS, and it just shows how good of an operating system Apple has that they did.
Do you think it would cross Apple's mind to maybe push X a bit more, then? I know they're pretty big on it already, but there's obviously SOMETHING not getting through if these numbers are accurate.
As many "myths" and misconceptions there on about Macs on the PC side, seems as though there are probably quite a few right in our own backyard from actual Mac users concerning OS X.
We're already a small piece of the pie and of that pie, I'd imagine not everyone is an OS X hound like many of us (keeping up with what's what, going to late-night OS rollouts, reading rumor/geek sites, etc.), so yeah...I could easily see the typical customer using their grape iMac with OS 9 or even 8.6 and it probably just never really occurred to them to check out X.
That's truly sad because those people (surfing, writing, e-mailing, listening to music, using a digital camera, etc....in other words, "home users", consumers, non-pros) are EXACTLY the ones who would probably be most impressed - and get the most out of - OS X.
Think about it...
No iPhoto, no iTunes 4/music store, no iChat, no access to an actually useful and cool Sherlock (which I seem to use EVERYDAY since Jaguar), none of the cool iCal/Address Book/iSync stuff.
Apple should really reach out because now the problem isn't getting people to "switch" (all new Macs come with OS X and people experience that first and THAT'S their Mac as they know it), it's Apple's OWN current customers who - out of ignorance, laziness, fear or some other no good reason - are staying with 8 and 9.
If it's a hardware compatibility issue or you truly make your way using software that isn't OS X native, that's one thing. I can totally understand that (like giant and others above).
But anyone simply surfing, e-mailing, doing the iApp/iLife thing, writing, chatting, etc. to NOT be on X?
Believe it or not, life did exist before OSX. The things you list are precisely why they haven't bothered to upgrade. What they have works just fine doing those simple things. It's paid for, it's already installed. The people who really can appreciate OSX (enough to not be able to do without) are those "geeky" or power-user-oriented enough to really put preemptive multitasking, protected memory, and enhanced security to work. If those things are not noticeably impacting you, then arbitrarily burning $129 just doesn't have a justification/motivation (unless you are after the eyecandy, perhaps). These people aren't inherently ignorant, lazy, fearful, or any other negative label you wish to lump on them. They simply do not have the same needs or motivations as you do. They'll come along when the time comes to buy a new Mac. Just leave it at that.
There is not a single OS X machine in my school, save the Jaguar Beige G3 that I donated. I find this dissapointing.
What if there are OS 9 users don't realize that there is an OS X? I bet there are tons of "internet grandmas" out there that are buying Dells after their iMacs begin to suck.
There are Windows people still running Windows 95.
A lot of people simply never upgrade their OS. They stick with what their computer came with until they get another computer. Oddly enough, many Mac users don't even read Mac-oriented message boards every day, eagerly hunting for clues about what's coming up next.
Shocking, I know.
Over the next couple of years a lot of old, never-upgraded Macs will be replaced. Except for a few reverse-switchers that are inevitably going to be among the bunch, the owners of those old Macs will be replacing their Macs with new Macs that won't even boot OS 9. I'm guessing in two more years time, OS X will not only be the majority Mac platform, but a fairly solid majority.
One of those people still running Windows 95 is called Nathan Lineback, and his site is toastytech.com. He hates IE 4+ and thus sticks with Windows 95. He is an IT guy. He is not me, I'm ryan.
LOL. So right. I know of 3 people still running OS 9. Not because they dislike OS X, they just aren't geeks likes us that upgrade what we have. They just use what they have until they get a new Mac. One I'm sure has no clue what OS X is, the other two have heard about it from me but don't really know what I'm talking about. They just don't care nor keep up with what's new.
Interestingly though my grandma upgraded dutifully from 8.5 to 8.6 and the 8.6 to 9 but not to X
Now not having access to ITMS is kind of annoying, of course. If Apple is going to use that just to lure me over, they can lick me. I'll manage to do without. They don't seem to have a problem with coming up with a Windows version (where they could similarly stand their ground and say, "No, you can't have this unless you get OSX"), but they'll hang out their own older users to dry? That double-standard irks me, though I completely understand that others may see the situation differently (more justified).
To be perfectly fair, the Windows version of iTunes/iTMS is only available for users of Windows 2000 and XP. Those of us with Windows 98 machines - like the one I'm typing on now - are out of luck. The double standard works both ways: "older users" on the Windows side are being hung out to dry as well.
Originally posted by Randycat99 Believe it or not, life did exist before OSX.
No kidding?! I don't recall ever saying it didn't...
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The things you list are precisely why they haven't bothered to upgrade.
Yeah it works fine. Again, didn't say it didn't. BUT you can't deny that you get so much more (the music store, iChat, iSight, etc. with X. They don't have that now, so THAT'S stuff not "working fine". X isn't just for "geeks" and "pros who'll appreciate the 'pre-emptive this' and 'protected that'"...I don't think about those things...I prefer it because I think it's easier, more "thought out", saves steps (for instance, something as basic as changing a desktop pattern in OS 9 vs. X...that's just one small example).
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These people aren't inherently ignorant, lazy, fearful, or any other negative label you wish to lump on them.
Sure about that? I can speak exactly to what I know/experience: everybody I know who uses a Mac (a wide range of ages, experience levels, occupations) has pretty much not given it a second thought or seemed too "into it"...UNTIL they were at my house and saw OS X on my iMac (or now my PowerBook) and I simply gave them a little demo of things. But they spent MONTHS poo-pooing the whole notion of OS X, WHEN THEY HADN'T EVEN GIVEN IT A TRY. They were indeed ignorant about it. A couple of them are a bit on the sloppy side, content to always restart and f*** around with Extensions Manager, pursuing some "conflict of the week" because they just figured that's "part of using a Mac". Fearful? I work with someone who doesn't seem to into the idea of moving forward, no matter what. Prefers PageMaker 6.5 (and all its shortcomings/quirks to InDesign, took one look at the logo for OS X and forms some off-the-wall opinion based on NOTHING real/sensible, etc.). So yeah, there IS a "fear" element at play. Those aren't "negative" labels arbitrarily slapped on people for kicks as much as honest, ACCURATE observations over the past 12-18 months of my Mac-using life, Randy.
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They simply do not have the same needs or motivations as you do.
What, exactly, would that be? To have a system that doesn't freak out with a stupid extension conflict 3 times a day? Not wanting to go through 2-4 steps/mouse clicks when 1 (or 2) will do? Not having one crazy app go nuts and take the whole system down with it? I'm NOT a high-end, "power user" type at all. I don't have any lofty, "geekier than thou" reasons or "motivations", other than to simply be comfortable, productive and efficient as possible. X allows that WAY more than 9.
But guess what? I hated it for the first, oh, 4 days or so, nearly two years ago. I gave all the same arguments ("it's ugly", "it's not a Mac", "it's too cutesy", etc.). But I came around. I got past those initial reactions many people can't seem to. Plus, I realized - like it or not - it's the FUTURE. Adobe has already stopped making stuff for 9, so unless I want to spend the rest of my life in Illustrator 10 and Photoshop 7 (which I don't), then I'd damn well better get with the program.
All the people above that I've shown OS X to for any length of time (answered their questions, demo the music store, show the Finder, Exposé, how easy it is to customize/tweak your system, the Dock, Safari, etc.) have been COMPLETELY impressed and have a) bought it, b) preparing to buy it or c) preparing to buy a newer, more modern Mac so they can use it to its fullest.
It took me showing it to them, calming their fears, answering their questions, etc. They WERE ignorant, fearful and lazy. And now they've all realized it was all for nothing.
I helped a friend just this weekend put their new Panther on their G4 and got an e-mail this morning gushing over "damn, you weren't kidding...this rocks!!!".
They're not a graphics person or a "pro user" by ANY stretch. But they sure as hell enjoy everything they do 10x more now, I promise you. She's buying an iSight next weekend, in fact.
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They'll come along when the time comes to buy a new Mac. Just leave it at that.
Nope, I can't. I know there's a better way.
And so far, I've been 100% right when it comes to my friends and co-workers and their OS X migration.
No kidding?! I don't recall ever saying it didn't...
So you shouldn't have a problem understanding that there will be people who got along just fine before OSX, will continue to get along just fine with the same needs after OSX.
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Yeah it works fine. Again, didn't say it didn't. BUT you can't deny that you get so much more (the music store, iChat, iSight, etc. with X. They don't have that now, so THAT'S stuff not "working fine".
If they need the extra functionality, by all means go and get it. If not, then things are working fine just as they did before OSX. That's the essence behind the statement that there actually was life before OSX.
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X isn't just for "geeks" and "pros who'll appreciate the 'pre-emptive this' and 'protected that'"...I don't think about those things...I prefer it because I think it's easier, more "thought out", saves steps (for instance, something as basic as changing a desktop pattern in OS 9 vs. X...that's just one small example).
Those are the core advantages, like it or not. It was the whole point of bothering to make such a paradigm shift. There is no complaint that Classic Mac OS was difficult to use, in the first place. So justifying OSX ease of use is dubious.
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Sure about that? I can speak exactly to what I know/experience: everybody I know who uses a Mac (a wide range of ages, experience levels, occupations) has pretty much not given it a second thought or seemed too "into it"...UNTIL they were at my house and saw OS X on my iMac (or now my PowerBook) and I simply gave them a little demo of things. But they spent MONTHS poo-pooing the whole notion of OS X, WHEN THEY HADN'T EVEN GIVEN IT A TRY. They were indeed ignorant about it. A couple of them are a bit on the sloppy side, content to always restart and f*** around with Extensions Manager, pursuing some "conflict of the week" because they just figured that's "part of using a Mac". Fearful? I work with someone who doesn't seem to into the idea of moving forward, no matter what. Prefers PageMaker 6.5 (and all its shortcomings/quirks to InDesign, took one look at the logo for OS X and forms some off-the-wall opinion based on NOTHING real/sensible, etc.). So yeah, there IS a "fear" element at play. Those aren't "negative" labels arbitrarily slapped on people for kicks as much as honest, ACCURATE observations over the past 12-18 months of my Mac-using life, Randy.
Yes, you made a few sales. It is still a bit arrogant to then think that all people who haven't switched fall into the "ignorant, fearful, and lazy" category. You could make that argument for virtually anything new that appears on any given day. People use what works. If it works, no need to "fix" it.
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What, exactly, would that be? To have a system that doesn't freak out with a stupid extension conflict 3 times a day?
This may be a problem you have experienced, but it is not universal or assured. You are now simply resorting to justifying your point of view by showing the other side in the worst light, not the typical light.
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Not wanting to go through 2-4 steps/mouse clicks when 1 (or 2) will do?
If we are down to counting mouseclicks, then we are way into the realm of diminishing returns. Mouseclicks were never a problem in the first place.
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Not having one crazy app go nuts and take the whole system down with it?
Hey, it can happen on the rare occasion. If it is happening to you incessantly, then you obviously have a problem to address. Things don't just take care of themselves. Similarly, a badly behaving app in Classic can still be a badly behaving app in OSX. It may not bring the whole system down in OSX, but if the app is crashing all the time, you won't be getting much work done in it, anyway. Hence, you won't continue to use it for long (unless you are just a masochist). Changing your OS just so you can run poorer apps with impunity is a poor justification.
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I'm NOT a high-end, "power user" type at all. I don't have any lofty, "geekier than thou" reasons or "motivations", other than to simply be comfortable, productive and efficient as possible. X allows that WAY more than 9.
You are happy with OSX. There's absolutely nothing wrong there. However, you should continue to acknowledge that life did exist before OSX. So it is possible that some people were comfortable, productive, and efficient before OSX and will continue to be so, for as long as their needs remain about the same. None of this is to say that someone shouldn't upgrade, either. If the notion suits you, do it. If it doesn't, you don't have to. It's just a choice.
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But guess what? I hated it for the first, oh, 4 days or so, nearly two years ago. I gave all the same arguments ("it's ugly", "it's not a Mac", "it's too cutesy", etc.).
Is this to presume that anybody who hasn't switched must be thinking this? You "gave all the same arguments" as who? Just say that those were your reasons w/o projecting, thank you.
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All the people above that I've shown OS X to for any length of time (answered their questions, demo the music store, show the Finder, Exposé, how easy it is to customize/tweak your system, the Dock, Safari, etc.) have been COMPLETELY impressed and have a) bought it, b) preparing to buy it or c) preparing to buy a newer, more modern Mac so they can use it to its fullest.
If you had also shown how similar tricks could be done in Mac OS 9 (for example), it might also have been a harder sell. I'm not saying you should have, either. Just take note that when you show the encumbent in the very best light, it's perfectly natural to get positive responses. That's the whole point of showing it. It's not conclusive of how much better it is unless you can show the "before" system in a similar light, and solicit the same response. I'm sure OSX is better ultimately, but if you ever showed OSX and OS9 side by side, the average person might not be able to tell what is really better vs. just different. That's the hard part of convincing.
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It took me showing it to them, calming their fears, answering their questions, etc. They WERE ignorant, fearful and lazy. And now they've all realized it was all for nothing.
There was probably a certain degree of projection in there, as well, but I'm glad you helped your friends, just the same.
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I helped a friend just this weekend put their new Panther on their G4 and got an e-mail this morning gushing over "damn, you weren't kidding...this rocks!!!".
New stuff is quite usually exciting. It's basic psychology. I'm not saying it doesn't "rock", but clearly that isn't the only mechanism at work here.
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They're not a graphics person or a "pro user" by ANY stretch. But they sure as hell enjoy everything they do 10x more now, I promise you. She's buying an iSight next weekend, in fact.
Exactly 10x, eh? Good on them.
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And so far, I've been 100% right when it comes to my friends and co-workers and their OS X migration.
Sounds like a crusade. It's all well and good because you are well meaning. Just don't get too consumed by it.
Comments
Originally posted by shetline
Oddly enough, many Mac users don't even read Mac-oriented message boards every day, eagerly hunting for clues about what's coming up next.
WhAt??
Some people with OS X on their machines don't give a dang about upgrading, either. I've got a friend (We'll call him "Mike") who bought a G4 iMac when they first came out. The thing has been so stable and good for him, he doesn't want to botch it up by installing updates. "Mike" took my 10.2 disks home for a few days, then brought them back, unused. He's perfectly happy, and one day, he'll buy a new Mac, with OS 10.whatever on it, and leave that OS on the machine until it rots as well.
He doesn't obsessively surf Mac boards, either. There's just no getting through to some people...
CV
Originally posted by Aquafire
Too much of NeXt and not enough of Apple..?
So I take it too much NeXT = too much UNIX. If Linux was even half of what Mac OS X is, Microsoft would be dead. OS X is a great system, it runs Classic apps, it runs X11 apps, it runs JAVA apps very nicely. Now all we need is something like the Classic layer for x86. I remember something like that for Rhapsody called the Red Box. Oh well, 10.4?
They could have built OS X on the BeOS. Wouldn't have to worry about permissions because it was still single user even after the BONE network stack was implemented in Dano. Oh well. Mac OS X 11.1?
Originally posted by Influenza
I can't argue with already having what you need and sticking with it. That's a smart move. But how exactly does having over 200 apps qualify as only "basic computer needs"?
Heh, good point! It's just what I have accumulated since I've had my computer.
Now not having access to ITMS is kind of annoying, of course. If Apple is going to use that just to lure me over, they can lick me. I'll manage to do without. They don't seem to have a problem with coming up with a Windows version (where they could similarly stand their ground and say, "No, you can't have this unless you get OSX"), but they'll hang out their own older users to dry? That double-standard irks me, though I completely understand that others may see the situation differently (more justified).
Web cam drivers, printer drivers, in my ase Diablo II, the carbon version doesn't work on my eMac, even though it runs just fine on my wifes. They changes something over the last 8 months. There's a totally new video system on the new emacs.
Of course, music is only one of the things I do on my machine, and a bit of my video work depends on unix programs and apps with no GUI, so I'm almost always in OS X.
I gotta say that the situation is quite simple for me:
9 was a mac Os, my mac felt like a maac and I loved it.
X is acomplex system, doesn't feel like a mac and I like it but don't love it
that's it I guess
Also, when 60% of Mac users aren't running OS X, it's most likely a large percentage of those people aren't even running OS 9. People generally only use the operating system their system comes bundled with, so you guys are right. Those people with B&W G3s and iMacs that are still running OS 8 aren't going to be using X until they buy a new machine.
If 40% of Mac users are already using OS X, that's dam good in my opinion. Most of these people didn't need to upgrade their OS, and it just shows how good of an operating system Apple has that they did.
As many "myths" and misconceptions there on about Macs on the PC side, seems as though there are probably quite a few right in our own backyard from actual Mac users concerning OS X.
We're already a small piece of the pie and of that pie, I'd imagine not everyone is an OS X hound like many of us (keeping up with what's what, going to late-night OS rollouts, reading rumor/geek sites, etc.), so yeah...I could easily see the typical customer using their grape iMac with OS 9 or even 8.6 and it probably just never really occurred to them to check out X.
That's truly sad because those people (surfing, writing, e-mailing, listening to music, using a digital camera, etc....in other words, "home users", consumers, non-pros) are EXACTLY the ones who would probably be most impressed - and get the most out of - OS X.
Think about it...
No iPhoto, no iTunes 4/music store, no iChat, no access to an actually useful and cool Sherlock (which I seem to use EVERYDAY since Jaguar), none of the cool iCal/Address Book/iSync stuff.
Apple should really reach out because now the problem isn't getting people to "switch" (all new Macs come with OS X and people experience that first and THAT'S their Mac as they know it), it's Apple's OWN current customers who - out of ignorance, laziness, fear or some other no good reason - are staying with 8 and 9.
If it's a hardware compatibility issue or you truly make your way using software that isn't OS X native, that's one thing. I can totally understand that (like giant and others above).
But anyone simply surfing, e-mailing, doing the iApp/iLife thing, writing, chatting, etc. to NOT be on X?
What a waste...
What if there are OS 9 users don't realize that there is an OS X? I bet there are tons of "internet grandmas" out there that are buying Dells after their iMacs begin to suck.
Originally posted by shetline
There are Windows people still running Windows 95.
A lot of people simply never upgrade their OS. They stick with what their computer came with until they get another computer. Oddly enough, many Mac users don't even read Mac-oriented message boards every day, eagerly hunting for clues about what's coming up next.
Shocking, I know.
Over the next couple of years a lot of old, never-upgraded Macs will be replaced. Except for a few reverse-switchers that are inevitably going to be among the bunch, the owners of those old Macs will be replacing their Macs with new Macs that won't even boot OS 9. I'm guessing in two more years time, OS X will not only be the majority Mac platform, but a fairly solid majority.
One of those people still running Windows 95 is called Nathan Lineback, and his site is toastytech.com. He hates IE 4+ and thus sticks with Windows 95. He is an IT guy. He is not me, I'm ryan.
Originally posted by iPeon
LOL. So right. I know of 3 people still running OS 9. Not because they dislike OS X, they just aren't geeks likes us that upgrade what we have. They just use what they have until they get a new Mac. One I'm sure has no clue what OS X is, the other two have heard about it from me but don't really know what I'm talking about.
Interestingly though my grandma upgraded dutifully from 8.5 to 8.6 and the 8.6 to 9 but not to X
Originally posted by ryaxnb
Apple not Mac? I imagine you mean the 3-5 users tapping away on their Apple Is through Apple IIIs and their lisas.
HEY! Back off. My Apple Plus still runs, now internet, but it still runs. If it didn't have a 25mhz processor, I would still use it.
Originally posted by Randycat99
Now not having access to ITMS is kind of annoying, of course. If Apple is going to use that just to lure me over, they can lick me. I'll manage to do without. They don't seem to have a problem with coming up with a Windows version (where they could similarly stand their ground and say, "No, you can't have this unless you get OSX"), but they'll hang out their own older users to dry? That double-standard irks me, though I completely understand that others may see the situation differently (more justified).
To be perfectly fair, the Windows version of iTunes/iTMS is only available for users of Windows 2000 and XP. Those of us with Windows 98 machines - like the one I'm typing on now - are out of luck. The double standard works both ways: "older users" on the Windows side are being hung out to dry as well.
Originally posted by Randycat99 Believe it or not, life did exist before OSX.
No kidding?! I don't recall ever saying it didn't...
The things you list are precisely why they haven't bothered to upgrade.
Yeah it works fine. Again, didn't say it didn't. BUT you can't deny that you get so much more (the music store, iChat, iSight, etc. with X. They don't have that now, so THAT'S stuff not "working fine". X isn't just for "geeks" and "pros who'll appreciate the 'pre-emptive this' and 'protected that'"...I don't think about those things...I prefer it because I think it's easier, more "thought out", saves steps (for instance, something as basic as changing a desktop pattern in OS 9 vs. X...that's just one small example).
These people aren't inherently ignorant, lazy, fearful, or any other negative label you wish to lump on them.
Sure about that? I can speak exactly to what I know/experience: everybody I know who uses a Mac (a wide range of ages, experience levels, occupations) has pretty much not given it a second thought or seemed too "into it"...UNTIL they were at my house and saw OS X on my iMac (or now my PowerBook) and I simply gave them a little demo of things. But they spent MONTHS poo-pooing the whole notion of OS X, WHEN THEY HADN'T EVEN GIVEN IT A TRY. They were indeed ignorant about it. A couple of them are a bit on the sloppy side, content to always restart and f*** around with Extensions Manager, pursuing some "conflict of the week" because they just figured that's "part of using a Mac". Fearful? I work with someone who doesn't seem to into the idea of moving forward, no matter what. Prefers PageMaker 6.5 (and all its shortcomings/quirks to InDesign, took one look at the logo for OS X and forms some off-the-wall opinion based on NOTHING real/sensible, etc.). So yeah, there IS a "fear" element at play. Those aren't "negative" labels arbitrarily slapped on people for kicks as much as honest, ACCURATE observations over the past 12-18 months of my Mac-using life, Randy.
They simply do not have the same needs or motivations as you do.
What, exactly, would that be? To have a system that doesn't freak out with a stupid extension conflict 3 times a day? Not wanting to go through 2-4 steps/mouse clicks when 1 (or 2) will do? Not having one crazy app go nuts and take the whole system down with it? I'm NOT a high-end, "power user" type at all. I don't have any lofty, "geekier than thou" reasons or "motivations", other than to simply be comfortable, productive and efficient as possible. X allows that WAY more than 9.
But guess what? I hated it for the first, oh, 4 days or so, nearly two years ago. I gave all the same arguments ("it's ugly", "it's not a Mac", "it's too cutesy", etc.). But I came around. I got past those initial reactions many people can't seem to. Plus, I realized - like it or not - it's the FUTURE. Adobe has already stopped making stuff for 9, so unless I want to spend the rest of my life in Illustrator 10 and Photoshop 7 (which I don't), then I'd damn well better get with the program.
All the people above that I've shown OS X to for any length of time (answered their questions, demo the music store, show the Finder, Exposé, how easy it is to customize/tweak your system, the Dock, Safari, etc.) have been COMPLETELY impressed and have a) bought it, b) preparing to buy it or c) preparing to buy a newer, more modern Mac so they can use it to its fullest.
It took me showing it to them, calming their fears, answering their questions, etc. They WERE ignorant, fearful and lazy. And now they've all realized it was all for nothing.
I helped a friend just this weekend put their new Panther on their G4 and got an e-mail this morning gushing over "damn, you weren't kidding...this rocks!!!".
They're not a graphics person or a "pro user" by ANY stretch. But they sure as hell enjoy everything they do 10x more now, I promise you. She's buying an iSight next weekend, in fact.
They'll come along when the time comes to buy a new Mac. Just leave it at that.
Nope, I can't. I know there's a better way.
And so far, I've been 100% right when it comes to my friends and co-workers and their OS X migration.
Originally posted by DMBand0026
My Apple Plus still runs, now internet, but it still runs. If it didn't have a 25mhz processor, I would still use it.
For a split second there I thought you were going to say. "If it didn't have a 25mhz processor, I would install OS X on it".
Originally posted by pscates
No kidding?! I don't recall ever saying it didn't...
So you shouldn't have a problem understanding that there will be people who got along just fine before OSX, will continue to get along just fine with the same needs after OSX.
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Yeah it works fine. Again, didn't say it didn't. BUT you can't deny that you get so much more (the music store, iChat, iSight, etc. with X. They don't have that now, so THAT'S stuff not "working fine".
If they need the extra functionality, by all means go and get it. If not, then things are working fine just as they did before OSX. That's the essence behind the statement that there actually was life before OSX.
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X isn't just for "geeks" and "pros who'll appreciate the 'pre-emptive this' and 'protected that'"...I don't think about those things...I prefer it because I think it's easier, more "thought out", saves steps (for instance, something as basic as changing a desktop pattern in OS 9 vs. X...that's just one small example).
Those are the core advantages, like it or not. It was the whole point of bothering to make such a paradigm shift. There is no complaint that Classic Mac OS was difficult to use, in the first place. So justifying OSX ease of use is dubious.
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Sure about that? I can speak exactly to what I know/experience: everybody I know who uses a Mac (a wide range of ages, experience levels, occupations) has pretty much not given it a second thought or seemed too "into it"...UNTIL they were at my house and saw OS X on my iMac (or now my PowerBook) and I simply gave them a little demo of things. But they spent MONTHS poo-pooing the whole notion of OS X, WHEN THEY HADN'T EVEN GIVEN IT A TRY. They were indeed ignorant about it. A couple of them are a bit on the sloppy side, content to always restart and f*** around with Extensions Manager, pursuing some "conflict of the week" because they just figured that's "part of using a Mac". Fearful? I work with someone who doesn't seem to into the idea of moving forward, no matter what. Prefers PageMaker 6.5 (and all its shortcomings/quirks to InDesign, took one look at the logo for OS X and forms some off-the-wall opinion based on NOTHING real/sensible, etc.). So yeah, there IS a "fear" element at play. Those aren't "negative" labels arbitrarily slapped on people for kicks as much as honest, ACCURATE observations over the past 12-18 months of my Mac-using life, Randy.
Yes, you made a few sales. It is still a bit arrogant to then think that all people who haven't switched fall into the "ignorant, fearful, and lazy" category. You could make that argument for virtually anything new that appears on any given day. People use what works. If it works, no need to "fix" it.
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What, exactly, would that be? To have a system that doesn't freak out with a stupid extension conflict 3 times a day?
This may be a problem you have experienced, but it is not universal or assured. You are now simply resorting to justifying your point of view by showing the other side in the worst light, not the typical light.
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Not wanting to go through 2-4 steps/mouse clicks when 1 (or 2) will do?
If we are down to counting mouseclicks, then we are way into the realm of diminishing returns. Mouseclicks were never a problem in the first place.
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Not having one crazy app go nuts and take the whole system down with it?
Hey, it can happen on the rare occasion. If it is happening to you incessantly, then you obviously have a problem to address. Things don't just take care of themselves. Similarly, a badly behaving app in Classic can still be a badly behaving app in OSX. It may not bring the whole system down in OSX, but if the app is crashing all the time, you won't be getting much work done in it, anyway. Hence, you won't continue to use it for long (unless you are just a masochist). Changing your OS just so you can run poorer apps with impunity is a poor justification.
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I'm NOT a high-end, "power user" type at all. I don't have any lofty, "geekier than thou" reasons or "motivations", other than to simply be comfortable, productive and efficient as possible. X allows that WAY more than 9.
You are happy with OSX. There's absolutely nothing wrong there. However, you should continue to acknowledge that life did exist before OSX. So it is possible that some people were comfortable, productive, and efficient before OSX and will continue to be so, for as long as their needs remain about the same. None of this is to say that someone shouldn't upgrade, either. If the notion suits you, do it. If it doesn't, you don't have to. It's just a choice.
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But guess what? I hated it for the first, oh, 4 days or so, nearly two years ago. I gave all the same arguments ("it's ugly", "it's not a Mac", "it's too cutesy", etc.).
Is this to presume that anybody who hasn't switched must be thinking this? You "gave all the same arguments" as who? Just say that those were your reasons w/o projecting, thank you.
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All the people above that I've shown OS X to for any length of time (answered their questions, demo the music store, show the Finder, Exposé, how easy it is to customize/tweak your system, the Dock, Safari, etc.) have been COMPLETELY impressed and have a) bought it, b) preparing to buy it or c) preparing to buy a newer, more modern Mac so they can use it to its fullest.
If you had also shown how similar tricks could be done in Mac OS 9 (for example), it might also have been a harder sell. I'm not saying you should have, either. Just take note that when you show the encumbent in the very best light, it's perfectly natural to get positive responses. That's the whole point of showing it. It's not conclusive of how much better it is unless you can show the "before" system in a similar light, and solicit the same response. I'm sure OSX is better ultimately, but if you ever showed OSX and OS9 side by side, the average person might not be able to tell what is really better vs. just different. That's the hard part of convincing.
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It took me showing it to them, calming their fears, answering their questions, etc. They WERE ignorant, fearful and lazy. And now they've all realized it was all for nothing.
There was probably a certain degree of projection in there, as well, but I'm glad you helped your friends, just the same.
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I helped a friend just this weekend put their new Panther on their G4 and got an e-mail this morning gushing over "damn, you weren't kidding...this rocks!!!".
New stuff is quite usually exciting. It's basic psychology. I'm not saying it doesn't "rock", but clearly that isn't the only mechanism at work here.
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They're not a graphics person or a "pro user" by ANY stretch. But they sure as hell enjoy everything they do 10x more now, I promise you. She's buying an iSight next weekend, in fact.
Exactly 10x, eh? Good on them.
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And so far, I've been 100% right when it comes to my friends and co-workers and their OS X migration.
Sounds like a crusade. It's all well and good because you are well meaning. Just don't get too consumed by it.
8.5 million machines running OS-X is nothing in comparison to the alleged 50 to 60 million mac machines in use world wide.
Ps I have a friend who said ( 10 years ago ) they'd move to a new PPC machine with OS 8.5 as soon as their 68K machine broke down...
Still hasn't changed & doesn't really care too.
Damm Macs ...they just keep on keeping on....