Okay, so I know it gave me a specific dump for TextEdit.
Yup, you sure dumped text here. Why can't you post it right so it doesn't make the window 3 miles wide? After all you are a Moderator and should know these things.
For those who want some message from OSX when an app fails to launch or crashes, check out the Console.app preferences. In there you can choose to have crash logs automatically displayed.
When I clicked on this thread, I thought I was going to be reading about how Panther destroyed your firewire hard drive and the data you would have made a cool million on. This was truly false advertising. I've never had the problem, so I can't really relate. But unless it's happening at an alarming frequency, I can't imagine it's a very big deal.
When I clicked on this thread, I thought I was going to be reading about how Panther destroyed your firewire hard drive and the data you would have made a cool million on. This was truly false advertising. I've never had the problem, so I can't really relate. But unless it's happening at an alarming frequency, I can't imagine it's a very big deal.
It's not an alarming frequency. It is the randomness to it that is the problem. And the thing like a program that costs as much as Illustrator not opening. Luckily it opened but it should open the first time I tried it. I don't really hate OS X I love it but this has happened to me more then my fair share.
Nothing pisses me off more then when an app bounces and quits out with no warnings or anything. It just won't open. That is BS.
This also happens if a library that an application needs is not found. For example, when I created a Cocoa program using the GMP library written in C, it would do what you described if the GMP stuff was not installed. The reason no warning message was shown, was probably because the program hadn't've, (nice word), opened yet. m.
Note to anyone having this problem. I didn't get any logs in my console when they didn't open. A fix for OSEx so I assume most other apps is to put the app into a disc image with toast, mount the disc image and drag it from that..somehow that makes it work.
Ya, I don't like it much either..but is that really OSX's fault? Did Apple write the program? I am not much of a code writer so I could be talking out of my ass here, but I would think it would the the company who wrote the software that is bouncing and quitting without warning who you should be climbing in their colons, not Apple. So if I am indeed talking out my ass, please someone give me a b#$%% slap, mmmmk?
For the record, Apps like Word/Excel/Powerpoint do that (bounce then quit) when you have a corrupt or problematic font - basically the bit that normally says "optimising font menu" is when it quits.
And you have to go back and load the default set of system fonts, try running Word, quit it and start loading fonts back in to find out which one is the troublemaker (unless someone knows a less tedious method).
Not saying it's your problem, but might be worth checking out.
I had a mad situation last night where I would click on the Mail and Safari icons, and they would bounce and the black triangles would appear beneath them.
However, they wouldn't appear on screen.
Calling up the Force Quit box showed that they were indeed running, but other than the black triangle in the dock you would never know it.
Weird.
I tried everything I could think of (which isn't much) - with no success. I eventually formated the machine and reinstalled everything from scratch. I don't spend a lot of time fannying around when I come across a problem in OS X - I just reach for the installer CDs. I'm becoming a dab-hand at it now...
It's a real bummer that an average Joe can't troubleshoot the OS any more. I guess that's the flipside of having such a complex OS. What happened to the computer for the rest of us!
I'd argue it's easier to troubleshoot - it's just that your old troubleshooting skills won't work anymore.
Old MacOS: Something goes wrong, you can sometimes figure out that it's a bad extension, or font, or prefs file, or such. (IF the machine stays up long enough for you to diagnose it.) You can remove it. Alternative: reformat and reinstall.
New MacOS: Somethings goes wrong, you can sometimes figure out that it's a bad extension, or font, or prefs file, or such. You can remove it... or you can edit the file, or you can grab a fresh copy off the net, or you can pop a CD in and copy it from there, or, or, or... or you can reformat and reinstall. Why? The machine stays up. What would previously have brought the whole machine down is now merely an annoyance.
The *way* in which you figure out what's wrong has changed, but MacOS X is very arguably nicer when things do go wrong.
Not trying to make light of people's problems, but when someone notes that they have multiple bombing apps on a regular basis... it's either one of two things:
A) The developer of the application made a shitty product.
The OS / apps were not installed properly and or the permissions are screwed up. Basically: the user has done something that ended up causing them grief later on, but they blame it on Apple.
I've run OS X on four different types of machines in the last 3 years and I still (including Panther) can count all of my forced restarts on one hand. And I run all kinds of 3rd party apps, utilities, and haxies.
There is simply no substitute for installing the OS on a clean partition, creating your account then fixing permissions, THEN installing your apps one by one without running lots of other crap in the background.
Perhaps the problems noted here are just a case of misfortune / bad software combinations, but most threads like this can invariably be traced back to user error.... especially where OS X on relatively new hardware is concerned.
Comments
Originally posted by Kickaha
???
Run Console.app.
It shows you the console file in a nice GUI window.
He's confusing "console" with "terminal"...I still do that.
The Terminal is usually called a console in PC land.
Originally posted by ethar
He's confusing "console" with "terminal"...I still do that.
The Terminal is usually called a console in PC land.
Actually, it's called a console in Unix land.
In PC land, they call it DOS. *shudder*
And, that's why I posted a full path to the application, with .app at the end.
ANY way...
I just had this happen to me, so I'm going to go through this step by step on how to diagnose such a situation.
I installed a new font, and some apps started barfing. I figure it's the font, so I remove it. Doesn't help (cache, maybe?).
So I launch TextEdit. Immediate crash.
Open /Applications/Utilities/Console.app, click on the Logs icon on the left end of the Toolbar, click on console.log.
Last four lines are:
Nov 13 19:42:54 dhcp23490 crashdump:
Started writing crash report to:
/Users/smithja/Library/Logs/CrashReporter/TextEdit.crash.log
Nov 13 19:42:54 dhcp23490 crashdump:
Finished writing crash report to:
/Users/smithja/Library/Logs/CrashReporter/TextEdit.crash.log
Nov 13 19:43:02 dhcp23490 crashdump:
Started writing crash report to:
/Users/smithja/Library/Logs/CrashReporter/TextEdit.crash.log
Nov 13 19:43:02 dhcp23490 crashdump:
Finished writing crash report to:
/Users/smithja/Library/Logs/CrashReporter/TextEdit.crash.log
Okay, so I know it gave me a specific dump for TextEdit.
In the Logs listing on the left, where I clicked on console.log, I click on ~/Library/Logs, then on CrashReporter, then on TextEdit.log.
And I get a bunch of crap.
Hmmm.
Well, scanning through it, with my engineer's eye, I see that a whole bunch of calls near the top of the thread that crashed start with NSATS:
Thread 0 Crashed:
#0 0x90229a44 in resolveNeutrals (resolveNeutrals + 112)
#1 0x902147e0 in CFUniCharApplyUnicodeBidiAlgorithm
(CFUniCharApplyUnicodeBidiAlgorithm + 96)
#2 0x92ff4930 in -[NSATSTypesetter _setupBidiSettingsInGlyphVector:]
(-[NSATSTypesetter _setupBidiSettingsInGlyphVector:] + 492)
#3 0x92ded3f8 in -[NSATSTypesetter _beginLayout:]
(-[NSATSTypesetter _beginLayout:] + 372)
#4 0x92e0b5b8 in -[NSATSTypesetter layoutParagraphAtPoint:]
(-[NSATSTypesetter layoutParagraphAtPoint:] + 544)
#5 0x92dd07fc in -[NSATSTypesetter layoutGlyphsInLayoutManager:startingAtGlyphIndex:m axNumberOfLineFragments:nextGlyphIndex:]
(-[NSATSTypesetter layoutGlyphsInLayoutManager:startingAtGlyphIndex:m axNumberOfLineFragments:nextGlyphIndex:] + 1780)
#6 0x92dd8d7c in -[NSLayoutManager(NSPrivate) _fillLayoutHoleAtIndex:desiredNumberOfLines:]
(-[NSLayoutManager(NSPrivate) _fillLayoutHoleAtIndex:desiredNumberOfLines:] + 1084)
#7 0x92ddcb14 in _NSFastFillAllLayoutHolesUpToGlyphIndex
(_NSFastFillAllLayoutHolesUpToGlyphIndex + 404)
#8 0x92ddc6a8 in -[NSLayoutManager textContainerForGlyphAtIndex:effectiveRange:]
(-[NSLayoutManager textContainerForGlyphAtIndex:effectiveRange:] + 104)
Knowing that this is the Cocoa Apple Text System API, I can be pretty darned sure that the font database is fubared.
So I'll log out and back in to refresh it, since I can't find a cache file anywhere that hints at fonts.
Edit: Yup, it did.
[fixed by BRAD]
Originally posted by Kickaha
Okay, so I know it gave me a specific dump for TextEdit.
Yup, you sure dumped text here.
Originally posted by ethar
He's confusing "console" with "terminal"...I still do that.
The Terminal is usually called a console in PC land.
jup, that's my mistake, i'm still messing console and terminal;-) sorry for confusion
btw: what does pc land mean?
[just kidding that time]
best and thanks for giving me the right spot.
Originally posted by Big Mac
When I clicked on this thread, I thought I was going to be reading about how Panther destroyed your firewire hard drive and the data you would have made a cool million on. This was truly false advertising. I've never had the problem, so I can't really relate. But unless it's happening at an alarming frequency, I can't imagine it's a very big deal.
It's not an alarming frequency. It is the randomness to it that is the problem. And the thing like a program that costs as much as Illustrator not opening. Luckily it opened but it should open the first time I tried it. I don't really hate OS X I love it but this has happened to me more then my fair share.
Originally posted by ast3r3x
Nothing pisses me off more then when an app bounces and quits out with no warnings or anything. It just won't open. That is BS.
This also happens if a library that an application needs is not found. For example, when I created a Cocoa program using the GMP library written in C, it would do what you described if the GMP stuff was not installed. The reason no warning message was shown, was probably because the program hadn't've, (nice word), opened yet. m.
~tommy
And you have to go back and load the default set of system fonts, try running Word, quit it and start loading fonts back in to find out which one is the troublemaker (unless someone knows a less tedious method).
Not saying it's your problem, but might be worth checking out.
However, they wouldn't appear on screen.
Calling up the Force Quit box showed that they were indeed running, but other than the black triangle in the dock you would never know it.
Weird.
I tried everything I could think of (which isn't much) - with no success. I eventually formated the machine and reinstalled everything from scratch. I don't spend a lot of time fannying around when I come across a problem in OS X - I just reach for the installer CDs. I'm becoming a dab-hand at it now...
It's a real bummer that an average Joe can't troubleshoot the OS any more. I guess that's the flipside of having such a complex OS. What happened to the computer for the rest of us!
Old MacOS: Something goes wrong, you can sometimes figure out that it's a bad extension, or font, or prefs file, or such. (IF the machine stays up long enough for you to diagnose it.) You can remove it. Alternative: reformat and reinstall.
New MacOS: Somethings goes wrong, you can sometimes figure out that it's a bad extension, or font, or prefs file, or such. You can remove it... or you can edit the file, or you can grab a fresh copy off the net, or you can pop a CD in and copy it from there, or, or, or... or you can reformat and reinstall. Why? The machine stays up. What would previously have brought the whole machine down is now merely an annoyance.
The *way* in which you figure out what's wrong has changed, but MacOS X is very arguably nicer when things do go wrong.
Originally posted by Moogs
Anyone else smell a CSO error?
What's a CSO error?
Not trying to make light of people's problems, but when someone notes that they have multiple bombing apps on a regular basis... it's either one of two things:
A) The developer of the application made a shitty product.
I've run OS X on four different types of machines in the last 3 years and I still (including Panther) can count all of my forced restarts on one hand. And I run all kinds of 3rd party apps, utilities, and haxies.
There is simply no substitute for installing the OS on a clean partition, creating your account then fixing permissions, THEN installing your apps one by one without running lots of other crap in the background.
Perhaps the problems noted here are just a case of misfortune / bad software combinations, but most threads like this can invariably be traced back to user error.... especially where OS X on relatively new hardware is concerned.
Originally posted by Scott
I'm with ast3r3x on this. The OS should toss up a warning "Blah blah blah app has quit without warning. No other app's have been affected."
IT DOES! Only when the App is running and then unexpectedly quits. What is happening here is that the App wasn't able to even start !
-walloo.