Truth is without terrorism few people in the World would know that the Palestinians exist. Perhaps negative attention is better than none.
I disagree with this one.
Negative attention leads to unpopularity. And in these cases, when people are seeking the attention of the world public opinon it's bad. Palestinians are not popular because some crazy nut's blow them self in bus in the name of Allah, they are popular because they are suffering an hard conflict and are the eternal looser. Israel is also suffering (in a different way) but is the eternal winner. As the weaks are more popular than the strong, Israel seems to be less popular than Palestine. But the truth is : without terrorism Palestinian will be more popular. The world media will speak less of them, but the situation will be better there.
I don't know if without terrorism the palestinian conflict will be finish, but i know that with terrorism the palestinian conflict will never end. Only good will from both side, should be able to stop this conflict, but if it's hard to have good will from two men hating each-others, it's even harder to expect good will from an entire population of two ennemies countries.
Negative attention leads to unpopularity. And in these cases, when people are seeking the attention of the world public opinon it's bad. Palestinians are not popular because some crazy nut's blow them self in bus in the name of Allah, they are popular because they are suffering an hard conflict and are the eternal looser. Israel is also suffering (in a different way) but is the eternal winner. As the weaks are more popular than the strong, Israel seems to be less popular than Palestine. But the truth is : without terrorism Palestinian will be more popular. The world media will speak less of them, but the situation will be better there.
I don't know if without terrorism the palestinian conflict will be finish, but i know that with terrorism the palestinian conflict will never end. Only good will from both side, should be able to stop this conflict, but if it's hard to have good will from two men hating each-others, it's even harder to expect good will from an entire population of two ennemies countries.
This is one of the best posts I have ever come across.
Truth is without terrorism few people in the World would know that the Palestinians exist. Perhaps negative attention is better than none.
Truth is "Palestinians" didn't know "Palestinians" existed prior to the Six Day War.
Theirs is a made up nationality. Made up with the sole identity as antithesis to Israel and its existence. It has become very obvious in the last years that there is no common ground between the parties and it is really a zero sum game. As the Arabs explode their demographic bomb, it is only a matter of time before realization of this translates into political action in the Israeli Knesset.
Thanks, but it's a very pessimist post indeed. That's really sad
This is why leadership is key. Leaders must push for the common good of all people. This is a reason I do not care for politics of partisanship of any kind. We are all people or human and human interests must be paramount. Leaders are able to set a tone and set expectations and when they fail to do this small small minimum humanity will suffer needless pain.
Example:
Quote:
A Jewish school annex north of Paris was
firebombed on Saturday, the latest attack on
property in the 600,000-strong French Jewish
community, Europe's largest.
This happened Saturday but:
Quote:
French President Jacques Chirac launched a
commission on Monday to fight a "new
anti-Semitism" "Whoever attacks a Jew in
France must understand they
are attacking the whole of France," Chirac told
reporters after calling Prime Minister
Jean-Pierre Raffarin and four cabinet ministers
to an emergency meeting at his Elysee Palace.
This is leadership in the best of ways. It is my hope that we all understand how we must put the human interest above all other interests. We can respect our differences as well as live in peace.
One day, two great leaders in the middle east will make peace dispite the hate, anger and violence of the more extremist part of their population. This will be an historical day.
Truth is "Palestinians" didn't know "Palestinians" existed prior to the Six Day War.
Theirs is a made up nationality. Made up with the sole identity as antithesis to Israel and its existence. It has become very obvious in the last years that there is no common ground between the parties and it is really a zero sum game. As the Arabs explode their demographic bomb, it is only a matter of time before realization of this translates into political action in the Israeli Knesset.
I am in no way justifying terrorism and I agree that it is not a solution, but how else can these people bring attention to their cause? Should they write a letter to the former Gov of Texas ? I'm sure that would accomplish alot. They can not fight a "real"war . They are desparate .
I am in no way justifying terrorism and I agree that it is not a solution, but how else can these people bring attention to their cause? Should they write a letter to the former Gov of Texas ? I'm sure that would accomplish alot. They can not fight a "real"war . They are desparate .
I am in no way justifying terrorism and I agree that it is not a solution, but how else can these people bring attention to their cause? Should they write a letter to the former Gov of Texas ? I'm sure that would accomplish alot. They can not fight a "real"war . They are desparate .
Are you really so obtuse? See if you can give me at least one example of a country that brought about freedom without the use of terrorist against civilians?
Yesterday a deputy infantry battalion commander from the Israeli Defence Force was convicted of throwing a stun grenade at a group of children in Hebron; he got fourteen days.
People don?t support the Palestinian cause ?blindly?. They believe they have good reason and frankly I find it difficult to argue with them.
Nothing justifies trying to blow up a synagogue full of people in prayer, of course, but you can hardly accuse people of ?bias? when Israel?s actions make them angry.
But at what point does it end? At what point do the ends no longer justify the means? At what point does it stop?
At what point does 'bias' become blind hate?
Many of those extremists only want to see all Jews killed. Nothing more. And this is for some slight that started what.... THOUSANDS of years ago? Most of the problems Arabs have with Jews dates back before Islam.
Honestly, it's an ugly situation. And the worst thing you can do is sit around and point fingers. In a lose lose situation it's EVERYONE'S fault.
And for the record, people do support the palestinian cause blindly. If you find a cause you'll find people who support it blindly. Thinking otherwise is naive.
"Wholesale group denunciation". According to that Israeli minister that Scott quotes and links to that is "a clear sign of the anti-Semitic impulse at work".
But then, even after listing a litany of different groups' racism against "scapegoats" and those who are different down through the ages, he downplays every other suffering group bar the Jewish people and laughs off the suggestion that an Israeli, or the Israeli state could ever be racist towards the Palestinians.
But then it's just rhetoric, he's not actually examining the facts in order to find "the truth". Instead it seemed to me that he was trying to raise support by pandering to the xenophobia of US citizens with a grudge against Europeans and--more interestingly--those Americans with a "European" point-of-view (traitors!).
Well considering the fact that he's discussing anti-Semitism and not the anti-black racism, or anti-Irish sentiments of the early 1900s...why would he focus on them in this article?
It's awfully annoying to hear people say that Jews only complain about their oppression. I've heard time and time again that Jews downplay all other suffering but their own.
Of all the bigoted bullsh*t I keep reading here that is just annoying. Guess what, blacks in the US (not all mind you, but there are some) still complain about slavery and downplay everything else but their ancestors picking cotton 200 years ago. Go bash them too. Not to belittle that experience, believe me... Seeing numbers tattooed on your grandparents arms like cattle let's you understand something of what happened back then.
Truth of the matter is that Jews have been under attack like this for thousands of years. Go read history, until Solomon everybody attacked them, and afterwards... well things got worse than before. For jews it's not something that happened 50 years ago. It's something that happens NOW and daily.
So you'll have to undertsand that after all this time, with the world hating you because the name of your G-d is spelled differetly than someone elses you stop looking elsewhere for any support. Which, I'm sure is exactly how Palestinians feel.
I am in no way justifying terrorism and I agree that it is not a solution, but how else can these people bring attention to their cause? Should they write a letter to the former Gov of Texas ? I'm sure that would accomplish alot. They can not fight a "real"war . They are desparate .
So the ends justify the means then? That's what you're saying right? As long as my cause is just I can kill as many children as I want? A slong as my cause is good and I can't fight a 'real war' I can kill your family while you're out at dinner then?
I did not say nor imply that I accept terrorism or in any way think it is right. I do, however, understand its motivation. Can I not understand why someone does something without agreeing with them?
As far as "ends justify the means". Of course not. However, I suspect that the majority of Americans would acccept the killing of thousands of Iraqis for the end of "ousting the evil regime". Of course we did destroy all of these WMD that could have fallen into the hands of terrorists.
Once again you are blurring the lines. Trying to use the "everyone does it" and "we're just as bad" in one swipe.
The US didn't target civilians in Iraq. US pilots didn't see a bus full of old people and kids and think, "I'll target that". The US fought a war against the Iraqi army. Civilians are always caught in the corssfire. The US has spent billion and billions on weapons technology to limit damage in war. It's unheard of in human history. Also the US is not using terror to achieve a political end. It's using it's army against another army. The goal of the US is not to kill civilians in hopes of getting rid of Saddam but rather to defeat his army and remove him from power. Which it did.
But getting back on topic it should be clear to anyone that the problems with Israel have more to do with the fact that they are jews and less to do a small group of arabs. The war on jews is moving outside of Israel.
Comments
Originally posted by Beige_G3
Truth is without terrorism few people in the World would know that the Palestinians exist. Perhaps negative attention is better than none.
I disagree with this one.
Negative attention leads to unpopularity. And in these cases, when people are seeking the attention of the world public opinon it's bad. Palestinians are not popular because some crazy nut's blow them self in bus in the name of Allah, they are popular because they are suffering an hard conflict and are the eternal looser. Israel is also suffering (in a different way) but is the eternal winner. As the weaks are more popular than the strong, Israel seems to be less popular than Palestine. But the truth is : without terrorism Palestinian will be more popular. The world media will speak less of them, but the situation will be better there.
I don't know if without terrorism the palestinian conflict will be finish, but i know that with terrorism the palestinian conflict will never end. Only good will from both side, should be able to stop this conflict, but if it's hard to have good will from two men hating each-others, it's even harder to expect good will from an entire population of two ennemies countries.
Originally posted by Powerdoc
I disagree with this one.
Negative attention leads to unpopularity. And in these cases, when people are seeking the attention of the world public opinon it's bad. Palestinians are not popular because some crazy nut's blow them self in bus in the name of Allah, they are popular because they are suffering an hard conflict and are the eternal looser. Israel is also suffering (in a different way) but is the eternal winner. As the weaks are more popular than the strong, Israel seems to be less popular than Palestine. But the truth is : without terrorism Palestinian will be more popular. The world media will speak less of them, but the situation will be better there.
I don't know if without terrorism the palestinian conflict will be finish, but i know that with terrorism the palestinian conflict will never end. Only good will from both side, should be able to stop this conflict, but if it's hard to have good will from two men hating each-others, it's even harder to expect good will from an entire population of two ennemies countries.
This is one of the best posts I have ever come across.
Fellowship
Originally posted by aapl
Fool me twice, shame on me.
He's baaa-aack ...
Originally posted by Beige_G3
Truth is without terrorism few people in the World would know that the Palestinians exist. Perhaps negative attention is better than none.
Truth is "Palestinians" didn't know "Palestinians" existed prior to the Six Day War.
Theirs is a made up nationality. Made up with the sole identity as antithesis to Israel and its existence. It has become very obvious in the last years that there is no common ground between the parties and it is really a zero sum game. As the Arabs explode their demographic bomb, it is only a matter of time before realization of this translates into political action in the Israeli Knesset.
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
This is one of the best posts I have ever come across.
Fellowship
Thanks, but it's a very pessimist post indeed. That's really sad
Originally posted by Powerdoc
Thanks, but it's a very pessimist post indeed. That's really sad
This is why leadership is key. Leaders must push for the common good of all people. This is a reason I do not care for politics of partisanship of any kind. We are all people or human and human interests must be paramount. Leaders are able to set a tone and set expectations and when they fail to do this small small minimum humanity will suffer needless pain.
Example:
A Jewish school annex north of Paris was
firebombed on Saturday, the latest attack on
property in the 600,000-strong French Jewish
community, Europe's largest.
This happened Saturday but:
French President Jacques Chirac launched a
commission on Monday to fight a "new
anti-Semitism" "Whoever attacks a Jew in
France must understand they
are attacking the whole of France," Chirac told
reporters after calling Prime Minister
Jean-Pierre Raffarin and four cabinet ministers
to an emergency meeting at his Elysee Palace.
This is leadership in the best of ways. It is my hope that we all understand how we must put the human interest above all other interests. We can respect our differences as well as live in peace.
Link
Fellowship
One day, two great leaders in the middle east will make peace dispite the hate, anger and violence of the more extremist part of their population. This will be an historical day.
Originally posted by aapl
Truth is "Palestinians" didn't know "Palestinians" existed prior to the Six Day War.
Theirs is a made up nationality. Made up with the sole identity as antithesis to Israel and its existence. It has become very obvious in the last years that there is no common ground between the parties and it is really a zero sum game. As the Arabs explode their demographic bomb, it is only a matter of time before realization of this translates into political action in the Israeli Knesset.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHH!
Originally posted by Beige_G3
I am in no way justifying terrorism and I agree that it is not a solution, but how else can these people bring attention to their cause? Should they write a letter to the former Gov of Texas ? I'm sure that would accomplish alot. They can not fight a "real"war . They are desparate .
hmm,..
What was their cause prior to 1967?
Originally posted by aapl
It has become very obvious in the last years that there is no common ground between the parties and it is really a zero sum game.
This is false. Only racists truly believe this and use it as a means to further their racist causes.
Originally posted by Beige_G3
I am in no way justifying terrorism and I agree that it is not a solution, but how else can these people bring attention to their cause? Should they write a letter to the former Gov of Texas ? I'm sure that would accomplish alot. They can not fight a "real"war . They are desparate .
Are you really so obtuse? See if you can give me at least one example of a country that brought about freedom without the use of terrorist against civilians?
Originally posted by bunge
This is false. Only racists truly believe this and use it as a means to further their racist causes.
You are wrong. In fact, I can't recall when you were ever right. LOL
Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
Dude.
Yesterday a deputy infantry battalion commander from the Israeli Defence Force was convicted of throwing a stun grenade at a group of children in Hebron; he got fourteen days.
People don?t support the Palestinian cause ?blindly?. They believe they have good reason and frankly I find it difficult to argue with them.
Nothing justifies trying to blow up a synagogue full of people in prayer, of course, but you can hardly accuse people of ?bias? when Israel?s actions make them angry.
But at what point does it end? At what point do the ends no longer justify the means? At what point does it stop?
At what point does 'bias' become blind hate?
Many of those extremists only want to see all Jews killed. Nothing more. And this is for some slight that started what.... THOUSANDS of years ago? Most of the problems Arabs have with Jews dates back before Islam.
Honestly, it's an ugly situation. And the worst thing you can do is sit around and point fingers. In a lose lose situation it's EVERYONE'S fault.
And for the record, people do support the palestinian cause blindly. If you find a cause you'll find people who support it blindly. Thinking otherwise is naive.
Originally posted by stupider...likeafox
"Wholesale group denunciation". According to that Israeli minister that Scott quotes and links to that is "a clear sign of the anti-Semitic impulse at work".
But then, even after listing a litany of different groups' racism against "scapegoats" and those who are different down through the ages, he downplays every other suffering group bar the Jewish people and laughs off the suggestion that an Israeli, or the Israeli state could ever be racist towards the Palestinians.
But then it's just rhetoric, he's not actually examining the facts in order to find "the truth". Instead it seemed to me that he was trying to raise support by pandering to the xenophobia of US citizens with a grudge against Europeans and--more interestingly--those Americans with a "European" point-of-view (traitors!).
Well considering the fact that he's discussing anti-Semitism and not the anti-black racism, or anti-Irish sentiments of the early 1900s...why would he focus on them in this article?
It's awfully annoying to hear people say that Jews only complain about their oppression. I've heard time and time again that Jews downplay all other suffering but their own.
Of all the bigoted bullsh*t I keep reading here that is just annoying. Guess what, blacks in the US (not all mind you, but there are some) still complain about slavery and downplay everything else but their ancestors picking cotton 200 years ago. Go bash them too. Not to belittle that experience, believe me... Seeing numbers tattooed on your grandparents arms like cattle let's you understand something of what happened back then.
Truth of the matter is that Jews have been under attack like this for thousands of years. Go read history, until Solomon everybody attacked them, and afterwards... well things got worse than before. For jews it's not something that happened 50 years ago. It's something that happens NOW and daily.
So you'll have to undertsand that after all this time, with the world hating you because the name of your G-d is spelled differetly than someone elses you stop looking elsewhere for any support. Which, I'm sure is exactly how Palestinians feel.
Originally posted by Beige_G3
I am in no way justifying terrorism and I agree that it is not a solution, but how else can these people bring attention to their cause? Should they write a letter to the former Gov of Texas ? I'm sure that would accomplish alot. They can not fight a "real"war . They are desparate .
So the ends justify the means then? That's what you're saying right? As long as my cause is just I can kill as many children as I want? A slong as my cause is good and I can't fight a 'real war' I can kill your family while you're out at dinner then?
As far as "ends justify the means". Of course not. However, I suspect that the majority of Americans would acccept the killing of thousands of Iraqis for the end of "ousting the evil regime". Of course we did destroy all of these WMD that could have fallen into the hands of terrorists.
The US didn't target civilians in Iraq. US pilots didn't see a bus full of old people and kids and think, "I'll target that". The US fought a war against the Iraqi army. Civilians are always caught in the corssfire. The US has spent billion and billions on weapons technology to limit damage in war. It's unheard of in human history. Also the US is not using terror to achieve a political end. It's using it's army against another army. The goal of the US is not to kill civilians in hopes of getting rid of Saddam but rather to defeat his army and remove him from power. Which it did.
But getting back on topic it should be clear to anyone that the problems with Israel have more to do with the fact that they are jews and less to do a small group of arabs. The war on jews is moving outside of Israel.