Just saw it, it kicked ass, there were a couple little things here and there that probably should have been included.
most glaringly though was the Denethor's Palantir, they REALLY should have included that, but they hinted towards it so much, that I'm sure it will be in the Extended edition.
another thing they sort of hinted at, was when aragorn grabs the palantir from pippin, (correct me if I'm mistaken, it's been a while since I read the books) but doesn't he look into it, and have the fortitude to be unphased, and not only that but he strikes a bolt of fear to Sauron?
Another thing, book or not, that I didn't like, was when Theoden and company charge head on to the oliphaunts, talk about stupidest battle maneuver ever!
But other than that, I enjoyed it and thoroughly agree with BR's comment.
Another thing, book or not, that I didn't like, was when Theoden and company charge head on to the oliphaunts, talk about stupidest battle maneuver ever!
Yup, it's called movie battle strategy. A couple dozen Mumakil and a few thousand horses with bowmen. You can run circles endlessly around such lumbering animals. They wouldn't be able to breach the outer wall of Minas Tirith anyway. In TTT we saw lots of Haradrim infantry...nowhere to be found in RotK.
As for Aragorn touching the palantir, I thought it was a silly move because it doesn't really show anything...Aragorn is supposed to use the palantir to distract Sauron in the end. They lengthened all the wrong scenes. The pace of the movie was all wrong. Right after the Battle of the Pelennor Fields, we're thrust into the fight at the Black Gate. The movie makes it seem like Sam and Frodo cross Mordor in a few hours when it's really several days. Instead we get extended sexual gazes by the Hobbits at each other and superfluous scenes like the Deagol and Smeagol bit.
Well, I just saw it last night and I have some comments to add. I never read the books (got as far as the introduction of Strider and then got bored) but for some reason I totally, utterly love the films. So I?m not strictly speaking a LotR groupie. I just think the films totally, utterly rock.
OK.
1) After the LotR, the Star Wars trilogy looks as dated as Harryhausen?s Jason and the Argonauts. See the Walking Skeletons! See the Hideous Gorgon!
Naah. Show me some huge great battle elephants, a CG Gollum and keep that beeping dickhead R2-D2 the hell away from me.
2) The Riders of Rohan Rule.
3) Elves are very cool indeed.
4) Hobbits are not. Hobbits are twats. Crying Hobbits are worse. If I were Aragorn, on my coronation my first proclamation before the White Tree of the great city of Whatsitcalled would be ?DEATH TO HOBBITS.? Weeping, sentimental incompetents. ?By edict of the King, all Hobbits are to be thrown from the parapet with immediate effect. Especially that fat-necked cheesemonger Frodo. He is to be dipped in oil and immolated first.? Prick.
5) The following actors are very, very good:
Ian McKellen: leavened gravitas, wisdom, subtlety.
Vigo Mortensen: committed.
Bernard Hill: honesty.
Cate Blanchet: astonishing charisma.
6) The following actors are crap and / or shit and bollocks, and made me grind my teeth:
Orlando Bloom, a smug shithead. You?re not really an elf. Understand this. We know you?re an actor.
Elijah Wood, who demonstrates his awful burden by rolling his eyes and sinking his head into his ghastly fat neck. Also smug. And crap. Especially when laughing or crying. Which constitutes most of his screentime.
Heavens above I hate Hobbits.
7) These bits got cheers and applause, or were generally wicked:
-When the dead soldiers bumrush the battlefield by passing straight through the walls of the ships. Oh yes.
-When the first battle elephants fell down. Oh dear me, yes.
-When Aragorn gets his sword from his girlfriend?s dad. Oh crikey, yes.
-When Aragorn uses said sword to hold the army of the dead to their oath. Yes.
-Theodin's speech before battle. Bo! Bo! Bo!
-Aragorn?s speech before battle. Bo! BO!
-Gandalf rolling up sleeves and taking charge. Muhhhnigggguh.
-Sam killing the spider thing and then kicking Orcish arse
-When the Riders of Rohan sound their horns and CHARGE THE ORCS. BO! BO! BO! See Orcy bastards looking scared! CRASH!
-Any bits without Elijah Wood, Orlando Bloom and crying, hugging, laughing Hobbits.
8) In these bits people were openly laughing at the film for its mawkishness and cheese quotient (they really were):
-Frodo on his sickbed
-Frodo and Sam surrounded by lava
And now the predictable, upsetting, AppleOutsider nonsense, for which I apologise in advance.
9) In a film with a cast of thousands, I spotted one actor who wasn?t white. He was a soldier at the coronation of Aragorn. I?m not wholly comfortable with this; sorry.
10) It?s kinda not cool either that the baddest Men come from the East and are dressed up with their faces covered like, well, bad Arabs (I?m sorry I?m writing this and infecting this thread with typical AppleOutsider shite, but I did notice it). But think about it: all the Nordic / Celtic European types are intrinsically good and the exotic, ?foreign? types are bastards with evil elephants and facepaint. I?m not sure if I?m just being sensitive about this?
11) Film rocks. Can?t believe I?m looking forward to the Director?s Cut of a three hour film but I am.
Ian McKellen: leavened gravitas, wisdom, subtlety.
Vigo Mortensen: committed.
The Guy Who Plays the King of Rohan (Theodin?): honesty.
Cate Blanchet: astonishing charisma.
Blanchett for her one speaking appearance in the entire movie? Bernard Hill's performance as Theoden was the best in the film, hands down.
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6) The following actors are crap and / or shit and bollocks, and made me grind my teeth:
Orlando Bloom, a smug shithead. You?re not really an elf. Understand this. We know you?re an actor.
Bwahaha, Grinning like an idiot after doing acrobatics. Worst translated character in the trilogy, though Denethor's portrayal in this film had me pretty miffed.
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Elijah Wood, who demonstrates his awful burden by rolling his eyes and sinking his head into his ghastly fat neck. Also smug. And crap. Especially when laughing or crying. Which constitutes most of his screentime.
When he says "Oh Sam," it just sounds so artificial, like his laughing at the end with Gandalf. WTF was that. That was the most awful laughing ever.
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-Theodin's speech before battle. Bo! Bo! Bo!
YES YES YES.
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And now the predictable, upsetting, AppleOutsider nonsense, for which I apologise in advance.
9) In a film with a cast of thousands, I spotted one actor who wasn?t white. He was a soldier at the coronation of Aragorn. I?m not wholly comfortable with this; sorry.
Blame Tolkien. The film already tried to be PC about it. Tolkien actively describes the men from the South (Haradrim) as being dark skinned.
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10) It?s kinda not cool either that the baddest Men come from the East and are dressed up with their faces covered like, well, bad Arabs (I?m sorry I?m writing this and infecting this thread with typical AppleOutsider shite, but I did notice it). But think about it: all the Nordic / Celtic European types are intrinsically good and the exotic, ?foreign? types are bastards with evil elephants and facepaint. I?m not sure if I?m just being sensitive about this?
The Easterlings weren't even in this film. TTT made them mysterious since they wore UFO shaped cans on their heads. They had a sort of dark, jaundiced look + eyeshadow look...very unnatural. You should check out the costume/character design sketches in the extended TTT DVD. It shows some pretty stereotypical caricatures that were of course thrown out.
Blanchett for her one speaking appearance in the entire movie? Bernard Hill's performance as Theoden was the best in the film, hands down.
Well, yes. She's not on screen much, granted, but when she was I was... reminded that she's... oh lordy. Such stillness. Such unimaginable... somethingness. Or something. And I agree that Bernard Hill is stupendous.
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Originally posted by Eugene
Bwahaha, Grinning like an idiot after doing acrobatics.
Kill.
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[i]When he says "Oh Sam," it just sounds so artificial, like his laughing at the end with Gandalf. WTF was that. That was the most awful laughing ever.[/b]
Well, yes. She's not on screen much, granted, but when she was I was... reminded that she's... oh lordy. Such stillness. Such unimaginable... somethingness. Or something.
Yes, she looks SUPER-YAYA with pointy ears and perfect, ultra-pale elf skin complexion.
well, saw it yesterday afternoon with my wife. great movie, but MAN did it test my ability to sit in one spot for an extended period of time. even the hardcore fans (such as ourselves -- well, okay, my wife) who tried to sit through the credits couldn't. we just had to get up and stand, walk around, etc.
and to think there's an HOUR of scenes on a cutting room floor somewhere?!?! to quote "the princess bride" - inconceivable!
no this is coming from someone who never read the books (me), because i have the attention span of a gnat... a caffeinated gnat... i did feel that the end of the movie seemed very rushed. the return to the shire. sam getting married. frodo, bilbo and gandalf leaving, etc., etc. it felt like there was at least ten minutes worth of storytellign to make all that come together.
honestly, as someone who never read the books, they could have ended the movies with everyone bowing to the hobbits and i would have been a happy camper.
i so want to see a scene parodied with hugo weaving going through his scenes in lotr as agent smith. the mental images still crack me up.
i am still impressed with the way that, even though you KNEW everything would turn out okay in the end, there was still an never-ending sense of fear, hopelessness, and impossible odds at stake. that is masterful storytelling right there.
all in all, two thumbs up. but damn, they need an intermission or something.
p.s. eugene, does it ever bother you that you are too cynical to enjoy a movie like this?
Okay, I have't seen anyone else mention this (maybe I read too fast?), but my favorite scene is where Eowyn takes out the Nazgul king. That whole sequence was straight from the book perfect--and awesome.
Well, up to the point where Eowyn gets to say her farewells to Theoden, which DIDN't happen in the book. I guess Peter just couldn't stand the tragedy.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to the extra footage on the DVD where Eomer finds either Theoden or Eowyn because it's in the trailer!!! Same with Gandalf holding off the Nazgul at the gate--it's in the trailer!
It is sorely tempting to start another "I'm disappointed that . . ." list, but I won't. The movie is good, but the book is simply superior.
However, I will say that someday someone will make it even better--as six movies, because I think that's what it would take to do it right.
And if they made the money per movie that they made this time around, well, who could resist?!
Okay, I have't seen anyone else mention this (maybe I read too fast?), but my favorite scene is where Eowyn takes out the Nazgul king. That whole sequence was straight from the book perfect--and awesome.
I liked the book version better. Eowyn wanted to accompany Aragorn on the Paths of the Dead, but was refused. Then she was not allowed to accompany the men into battle. I thought that set up the fact that the readers did not know Eowyn was on the battlefield until Dernhelm (sp?) removes "his" helmet and makes a much more eloquent speech than the simple and direct, "I am no man".
"But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Eowyn I am, Eomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him."
I was disappointed when Merry explicitly acknowledged Eowyn when she brought him on her horse. After all, in the movie, we get to see what is going on. But, I guess it set up giving Eowyn a bigger part in the battle and made it clear the viewers who had no knowledge of the book or the previous film(s) that she and Merry brought down one of the Oliphants.
I liked the book version better. Eowyn wanted to accompany Aragorn on the Paths of the Dead, but was refused. Then she was not allowed to accompany the men into battle. I thought that set up the fact that the readers did not know Eowyn was on the battlefield until Dernhelm (sp?) removes "his" helmet and makes a much more eloquent speech than the simple and direct, "I am no man".
"But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Eowyn I am, Eomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him."
I was disappointed when Merry explicitly acknowledged Eowyn when she brought him on her horse. After all, in the movie, we get to see what is going on. But, I guess it set up giving Eowyn a bigger part in the battle and made it clear the viewers who had no knowledge of the book or the previous film(s) that she and Merry brought down one of the Oliphants.
I never read the books, however I must say that the LotR trilogy absolutely sets all kinds of new benchmarks for deep fiction type films.
Star Wars?? You've got to be fooking kidding me. If you were to combine all of the very best lines and scenes and acting from all five Star Wars movies, it wouldn't compare in quality to any one of the LotR trilogy. AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH EFFECTS. Lucas, hang 'em up buddy.
2001 and 2010? Nope.
Indiana Jones? Nope.
Even our beloved Matrix? No.
Everything to this point has been absolutely OWN3D IMO. Overall, the trilogy did not ruin Tolkien's masterful story telling (because it is very obvious that said stories are what make these films great. What's more, there was very good casting, acting and scripting for the most part, and the effects were just about perfect. I hope I don't have to wait 12 months to get the extended DVD of RotK. Maybe they'll let us have at it by Spring if we're lucky.
There were things that seemed a bit out of kilter with the RotK -- notably the hordes of "fighting dead guys". That whole thing was sort of glossed over in the wrong way. I would've liked to see a little more of how they retook the castle, a little more context. Also, a little too "icky green glowing ghosts"... the effects should've been more subtle color-wise. But I'm starting to be a knit-picker like Hassan () so I'll stop.
I also felt there was too little of "the recovery" shown between that battle and the Black Gate, however I think concessions were made for movie-goers and that this will likely be one of the major areas where more footage is added to the extended edition. I suspect also, there will be more of Frodo and Sam crosssing the "badlands" that lead to Mt. Doom.
Lastly, it didn't end the way I thought it would (way to go, Trailer Makers for not giving it away but instead leading unknowing minds down the wrong path). I thought Frodo, once he realized he couldn't let go of the Ring, would throw himself in. That said, I think he and Sam should've died on the rocks (later to become one of those sweet stone monuments we see across all three movies -- or something like that). Also not sure why Bilbo was reintroduced but that was not such a big deal.
All in all, the three best movies I saw over the last three years, bar none.
Star Wars?? You've got to be fooking kidding me. If you were to combine all of the very best lines and scenes and acting from all five Star Wars movies, it wouldn't compare in quality to any one of the LotR trilogy. AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH EFFECTS. Lucas, hang 'em up buddy.
unfortunately, lucas' attempt at a prequel trilogy is BADLY diluting the franchise. i mean, VERY BADLY.
...even without the latest (three), there is absolutely no contest of quality, except perhaps were the original imaginations that created the stories are concerned. Lucas has a great imagination, but that's about it. Star Wars has alway had bad script-writing and mediocre (at best) acting. With the latest two, it just went from mediocre to positively subpar. And the use of effects went from complimentary to primary attraction.
With the LotR epics, the effects were not ever the primary attraction for more than a fleeting scene or two. And even for those scenes, they detracted nothing from the story.
...even without the latest (three), there is absolutely no contest of quality, except perhaps were the original imaginations that created the stories are concerned. Lucas has a great imagination, but that's about it. Star Wars has alway had bad script-writing and mediocre (at best) acting. With the latest two, it just went from mediocre to positively subpar. And the use of effects went from complimentary to primary attraction.
i mentioned this in a past thread (probably immediately post "attack of the clones"), but for anyone who has read "the second coming of steve jobs," deutschman (sp?) delves a little into the lucas family, as he discusses how pixar came about to being ont he chopping block when steve had time and money to invest in it.
he points out that i believe at least one or two of the oscars that star wars won was in editing, which was headed up by lucas' wife at the time. they divorced shortly after the trilogy was complete, citing the stress of the movies as a major cause for the breakup. and the only person in hollywood these days who would dare stand up to lucas and say "no, you cannot DO that... no, that line is AWFUL, george... etc." would be his wife. without her there, you see in phantom menace and attack the result of an unfettered, no-holds-barred george lucas, with all the budget in the world. basically, he desperately NEEDS someone to come in and trim the fat.
anyway, sorry... i know where getting dangerously close to a star wars thread here.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to the extra footage on the DVD where Eomer finds either Theoden or Eowyn because it's in the trailer!!!
I was wondering about that scene. It looks like he is holding Eowyn and not Theoden, but that wouldn't make sense in the movie since in she's doesn't seem so badly hurt. It would have been nice to see Eomer without a scowling face and furrowed eyebrows.
Don't get me wrong rok, I've enjoyed Star Wars many times over the years for what it is: an entertaining Sci-fi story (whose effects were outstanding for their time as well). When I was a kid I loved it, but looking back I can see those movies for what they are: kids movies.
The LotR is something that can be enjoyed equally by adults and youth, men and women, fiction nerds and general film buffs. Fiction-wise I can't think of any movies that compare to the overall experience.
Maybe part of it is because I didn't read the books and so it is my first introduction to the whole story and all the characters, where as others who have read the books had certain expectations that the movies matchup with how they envisioned them when they read the trilogy. Hard thing to live up to....
The book was better, but then again it's a ****ing BOOK. When are books NOT better? Three hours of film vs. hundreds of pages of prose. Even the greatest filmmaker in history couldn't beat a pretty good novelist at his own story.
Eugene:
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An interesting project would be a completely chronological re-edit of all three films into one. Show the forging of the rings, the last battle of the Second Age, Smeagol and Deagol finding the ring, the retaking of Osgiliath with Boromir, etc. as it would happen instead of in flashbacks.
This will happen. Watch the commentary on TTT, they discuss it. Even if they don't do it, someone with software will (as PJ mentions). I look forward to someone ripping out all the footage from all 3 extended editions and splicing it up in some kind of weird, open-source community project. I bet PJ would think it was cool.
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The movie makes it seem like Sam and Frodo cross Mordor in a few hours when it's really several days. Instead we get extended sexual gazes by the Hobbits at each other and superfluous scenes like the Deagol and Smeagol bit.
We have no idea the chronology of any of it. Seems like an odd thing to complain about. They show a long distance and Frodo and Sam walking, use your imagination. I would prefer not seeing "3 days later" on the screen or a montage of sunsets and sunrises (if you could even see those clearly in Mordor).
Hassan:
I thought "Arabs" immediately in both Two Towers and Return of the King. I thought the "MEN OF THE WEST!" bit of rally-speech was interesting as well.
I thought "Arabs" immediately in both Two Towers and Return of the King. I thought the "MEN OF THE WEST!" bit of rally-speech was interesting as well.
Men of the West is another name for the Numenoreans, from which the Gondorians are descended. Numenor was an island beyond the west shores of Middle Earth.
Comments
most glaringly though was the Denethor's Palantir, they REALLY should have included that, but they hinted towards it so much, that I'm sure it will be in the Extended edition.
another thing they sort of hinted at, was when aragorn grabs the palantir from pippin, (correct me if I'm mistaken, it's been a while since I read the books) but doesn't he look into it, and have the fortitude to be unphased, and not only that but he strikes a bolt of fear to Sauron?
Another thing, book or not, that I didn't like, was when Theoden and company charge head on to the oliphaunts, talk about stupidest battle maneuver ever!
But other than that, I enjoyed it and thoroughly agree with BR's comment.
Originally posted by Wrong Robot
Another thing, book or not, that I didn't like, was when Theoden and company charge head on to the oliphaunts, talk about stupidest battle maneuver ever!
Yup, it's called movie battle strategy. A couple dozen Mumakil and a few thousand horses with bowmen. You can run circles endlessly around such lumbering animals. They wouldn't be able to breach the outer wall of Minas Tirith anyway. In TTT we saw lots of Haradrim infantry...nowhere to be found in RotK.
As for Aragorn touching the palantir, I thought it was a silly move because it doesn't really show anything...Aragorn is supposed to use the palantir to distract Sauron in the end. They lengthened all the wrong scenes. The pace of the movie was all wrong. Right after the Battle of the Pelennor Fields, we're thrust into the fight at the Black Gate. The movie makes it seem like Sam and Frodo cross Mordor in a few hours when it's really several days. Instead we get extended sexual gazes by the Hobbits at each other and superfluous scenes like the Deagol and Smeagol bit.
OK.
1) After the LotR, the Star Wars trilogy looks as dated as Harryhausen?s Jason and the Argonauts. See the Walking Skeletons! See the Hideous Gorgon!
Naah. Show me some huge great battle elephants, a CG Gollum and keep that beeping dickhead R2-D2 the hell away from me.
2) The Riders of Rohan Rule.
3) Elves are very cool indeed.
4) Hobbits are not. Hobbits are twats. Crying Hobbits are worse. If I were Aragorn, on my coronation my first proclamation before the White Tree of the great city of Whatsitcalled would be ?DEATH TO HOBBITS.? Weeping, sentimental incompetents. ?By edict of the King, all Hobbits are to be thrown from the parapet with immediate effect. Especially that fat-necked cheesemonger Frodo. He is to be dipped in oil and immolated first.? Prick.
5) The following actors are very, very good:
Ian McKellen: leavened gravitas, wisdom, subtlety.
Vigo Mortensen: committed.
Bernard Hill: honesty.
Cate Blanchet: astonishing charisma.
6) The following actors are crap and / or shit and bollocks, and made me grind my teeth:
Orlando Bloom, a smug shithead. You?re not really an elf. Understand this. We know you?re an actor.
Elijah Wood, who demonstrates his awful burden by rolling his eyes and sinking his head into his ghastly fat neck. Also smug. And crap. Especially when laughing or crying. Which constitutes most of his screentime.
Heavens above I hate Hobbits.
7) These bits got cheers and applause, or were generally wicked:
-When the dead soldiers bumrush the battlefield by passing straight through the walls of the ships. Oh yes.
-When the first battle elephants fell down. Oh dear me, yes.
-When Aragorn gets his sword from his girlfriend?s dad. Oh crikey, yes.
-When Aragorn uses said sword to hold the army of the dead to their oath. Yes.
-Theodin's speech before battle. Bo! Bo! Bo!
-Aragorn?s speech before battle. Bo! BO!
-Gandalf rolling up sleeves and taking charge. Muhhhnigggguh.
-Sam killing the spider thing and then kicking Orcish arse
-When the Riders of Rohan sound their horns and CHARGE THE ORCS. BO! BO! BO! See Orcy bastards looking scared! CRASH!
-Any bits without Elijah Wood, Orlando Bloom and crying, hugging, laughing Hobbits.
8) In these bits people were openly laughing at the film for its mawkishness and cheese quotient (they really were):
-Frodo on his sickbed
-Frodo and Sam surrounded by lava
And now the predictable, upsetting, AppleOutsider nonsense, for which I apologise in advance.
9) In a film with a cast of thousands, I spotted one actor who wasn?t white. He was a soldier at the coronation of Aragorn. I?m not wholly comfortable with this; sorry.
10) It?s kinda not cool either that the baddest Men come from the East and are dressed up with their faces covered like, well, bad Arabs (I?m sorry I?m writing this and infecting this thread with typical AppleOutsider shite, but I did notice it). But think about it: all the Nordic / Celtic European types are intrinsically good and the exotic, ?foreign? types are bastards with evil elephants and facepaint. I?m not sure if I?m just being sensitive about this?
11) Film rocks. Can?t believe I?m looking forward to the Director?s Cut of a three hour film but I am.
Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
5) The following actors are very, very good:
Ian McKellen: leavened gravitas, wisdom, subtlety.
Vigo Mortensen: committed.
The Guy Who Plays the King of Rohan (Theodin?): honesty.
Cate Blanchet: astonishing charisma.
Blanchett for her one speaking appearance in the entire movie? Bernard Hill's performance as Theoden was the best in the film, hands down.
6) The following actors are crap and / or shit and bollocks, and made me grind my teeth:
Orlando Bloom, a smug shithead. You?re not really an elf. Understand this. We know you?re an actor.
Bwahaha, Grinning like an idiot after doing acrobatics. Worst translated character in the trilogy, though Denethor's portrayal in this film had me pretty miffed.
Elijah Wood, who demonstrates his awful burden by rolling his eyes and sinking his head into his ghastly fat neck. Also smug. And crap. Especially when laughing or crying. Which constitutes most of his screentime.
When he says "Oh Sam," it just sounds so artificial, like his laughing at the end with Gandalf. WTF was that. That was the most awful laughing ever.
-Theodin's speech before battle. Bo! Bo! Bo!
YES YES YES.
And now the predictable, upsetting, AppleOutsider nonsense, for which I apologise in advance.
9) In a film with a cast of thousands, I spotted one actor who wasn?t white. He was a soldier at the coronation of Aragorn. I?m not wholly comfortable with this; sorry.
Blame Tolkien. The film already tried to be PC about it. Tolkien actively describes the men from the South (Haradrim) as being dark skinned.
10) It?s kinda not cool either that the baddest Men come from the East and are dressed up with their faces covered like, well, bad Arabs (I?m sorry I?m writing this and infecting this thread with typical AppleOutsider shite, but I did notice it). But think about it: all the Nordic / Celtic European types are intrinsically good and the exotic, ?foreign? types are bastards with evil elephants and facepaint. I?m not sure if I?m just being sensitive about this?
The Easterlings weren't even in this film. TTT made them mysterious since they wore UFO shaped cans on their heads. They had a sort of dark, jaundiced look + eyeshadow look...very unnatural. You should check out the costume/character design sketches in the extended TTT DVD. It shows some pretty stereotypical caricatures that were of course thrown out.
Originally posted by Eugene
Blanchett for her one speaking appearance in the entire movie? Bernard Hill's performance as Theoden was the best in the film, hands down.
Well, yes. She's not on screen much, granted, but when she was I was... reminded that she's... oh lordy. Such stillness. Such unimaginable... somethingness. Or something. And I agree that Bernard Hill is stupendous.
Originally posted by Eugene
Bwahaha, Grinning like an idiot after doing acrobatics.
Kill.
[i]When he says "Oh Sam," it just sounds so artificial, like his laughing at the end with Gandalf. WTF was that. That was the most awful laughing ever.[/b]
Kill.
Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
Well, yes. She's not on screen much, granted, but when she was I was... reminded that she's... oh lordy. Such stillness. Such unimaginable... somethingness. Or something.
Yes, she looks SUPER-YAYA with pointy ears and perfect, ultra-pale elf skin complexion.
and to think there's an HOUR of scenes on a cutting room floor somewhere?!?! to quote "the princess bride" - inconceivable!
no this is coming from someone who never read the books (me), because i have the attention span of a gnat... a caffeinated gnat... i did feel that the end of the movie seemed very rushed. the return to the shire. sam getting married. frodo, bilbo and gandalf leaving, etc., etc. it felt like there was at least ten minutes worth of storytellign to make all that come together.
honestly, as someone who never read the books, they could have ended the movies with everyone bowing to the hobbits and i would have been a happy camper.
i so want to see a scene parodied with hugo weaving going through his scenes in lotr as agent smith. the mental images still crack me up.
i am still impressed with the way that, even though you KNEW everything would turn out okay in the end, there was still an never-ending sense of fear, hopelessness, and impossible odds at stake. that is masterful storytelling right there.
all in all, two thumbs up. but damn, they need an intermission or something.
p.s. eugene, does it ever bother you that you are too cynical to enjoy a movie like this?
"Use your harpoons and tow cables. Go for the legs. It might be our only chance of stopping them!"?
Sorry, couldn't resist.
p.s. To any of you with Mad Photoshop Skillz, I'd love to see your take on this!
Well, up to the point where Eowyn gets to say her farewells to Theoden, which DIDN't happen in the book. I guess Peter just couldn't stand the tragedy.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to the extra footage on the DVD where Eomer finds either Theoden or Eowyn because it's in the trailer!!! Same with Gandalf holding off the Nazgul at the gate--it's in the trailer!
It is sorely tempting to start another "I'm disappointed that . . ." list, but I won't. The movie is good, but the book is simply superior.
However, I will say that someday someone will make it even better--as six movies, because I think that's what it would take to do it right.
And if they made the money per movie that they made this time around, well, who could resist?!
Originally posted by Fangorn
Okay, I have't seen anyone else mention this (maybe I read too fast?), but my favorite scene is where Eowyn takes out the Nazgul king. That whole sequence was straight from the book perfect--and awesome.
I liked the book version better. Eowyn wanted to accompany Aragorn on the Paths of the Dead, but was refused. Then she was not allowed to accompany the men into battle. I thought that set up the fact that the readers did not know Eowyn was on the battlefield until Dernhelm (sp?) removes "his" helmet and makes a much more eloquent speech than the simple and direct, "I am no man".
"But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Eowyn I am, Eomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him."
I was disappointed when Merry explicitly acknowledged Eowyn when she brought him on her horse. After all, in the movie, we get to see what is going on. But, I guess it set up giving Eowyn a bigger part in the battle and made it clear the viewers who had no knowledge of the book or the previous film(s) that she and Merry brought down one of the Oliphants.
Originally posted by Skipjack
I liked the book version better. Eowyn wanted to accompany Aragorn on the Paths of the Dead, but was refused. Then she was not allowed to accompany the men into battle. I thought that set up the fact that the readers did not know Eowyn was on the battlefield until Dernhelm (sp?) removes "his" helmet and makes a much more eloquent speech than the simple and direct, "I am no man".
"But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Eowyn I am, Eomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him."
I was disappointed when Merry explicitly acknowledged Eowyn when she brought him on her horse. After all, in the movie, we get to see what is going on. But, I guess it set up giving Eowyn a bigger part in the battle and made it clear the viewers who had no knowledge of the book or the previous film(s) that she and Merry brought down one of the Oliphants.
Too true. *sigh*
Star Wars?? You've got to be fooking kidding me. If you were to combine all of the very best lines and scenes and acting from all five Star Wars movies, it wouldn't compare in quality to any one of the LotR trilogy. AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH EFFECTS. Lucas, hang 'em up buddy.
2001 and 2010? Nope.
Indiana Jones? Nope.
Even our beloved Matrix? No.
Everything to this point has been absolutely OWN3D IMO. Overall, the trilogy did not ruin Tolkien's masterful story telling (because it is very obvious that said stories are what make these films great. What's more, there was very good casting, acting and scripting for the most part, and the effects were just about perfect. I hope I don't have to wait 12 months to get the extended DVD of RotK. Maybe they'll let us have at it by Spring if we're lucky.
There were things that seemed a bit out of kilter with the RotK -- notably the hordes of "fighting dead guys". That whole thing was sort of glossed over in the wrong way. I would've liked to see a little more of how they retook the castle, a little more context. Also, a little too "icky green glowing ghosts"... the effects should've been more subtle color-wise. But I'm starting to be a knit-picker like Hassan (
I also felt there was too little of "the recovery" shown between that battle and the Black Gate, however I think concessions were made for movie-goers and that this will likely be one of the major areas where more footage is added to the extended edition. I suspect also, there will be more of Frodo and Sam crosssing the "badlands" that lead to Mt. Doom.
Lastly, it didn't end the way I thought it would (way to go, Trailer Makers for not giving it away but instead leading unknowing minds down the wrong path). I thought Frodo, once he realized he couldn't let go of the Ring, would throw himself in. That said, I think he and Sam should've died on the rocks (later to become one of those sweet stone monuments we see across all three movies -- or something like that). Also not sure why Bilbo was reintroduced but that was not such a big deal.
All in all, the three best movies I saw over the last three years, bar none.
Originally posted by Moogs
Star Wars?? You've got to be fooking kidding me. If you were to combine all of the very best lines and scenes and acting from all five Star Wars movies, it wouldn't compare in quality to any one of the LotR trilogy. AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH EFFECTS. Lucas, hang 'em up buddy.
unfortunately, lucas' attempt at a prequel trilogy is BADLY diluting the franchise. i mean, VERY BADLY.
...even without the latest (three), there is absolutely no contest of quality, except perhaps were the original imaginations that created the stories are concerned. Lucas has a great imagination, but that's about it. Star Wars has alway had bad script-writing and mediocre (at best) acting. With the latest two, it just went from mediocre to positively subpar. And the use of effects went from complimentary to primary attraction.
With the LotR epics, the effects were not ever the primary attraction for more than a fleeting scene or two. And even for those scenes, they detracted nothing from the story.
Originally posted by Moogs
...even without the latest (three), there is absolutely no contest of quality, except perhaps were the original imaginations that created the stories are concerned. Lucas has a great imagination, but that's about it. Star Wars has alway had bad script-writing and mediocre (at best) acting. With the latest two, it just went from mediocre to positively subpar. And the use of effects went from complimentary to primary attraction.
i mentioned this in a past thread (probably immediately post "attack of the clones"), but for anyone who has read "the second coming of steve jobs," deutschman (sp?) delves a little into the lucas family, as he discusses how pixar came about to being ont he chopping block when steve had time and money to invest in it.
he points out that i believe at least one or two of the oscars that star wars won was in editing, which was headed up by lucas' wife at the time. they divorced shortly after the trilogy was complete, citing the stress of the movies as a major cause for the breakup. and the only person in hollywood these days who would dare stand up to lucas and say "no, you cannot DO that... no, that line is AWFUL, george... etc." would be his wife. without her there, you see in phantom menace and attack the result of an unfettered, no-holds-barred george lucas, with all the budget in the world. basically, he desperately NEEDS someone to come in and trim the fat.
anyway, sorry... i know where getting dangerously close to a star wars thread here.
Originally posted by Fangorn
Anyway, I'm looking forward to the extra footage on the DVD where Eomer finds either Theoden or Eowyn because it's in the trailer!!!
I was wondering about that scene. It looks like he is holding Eowyn and not Theoden, but that wouldn't make sense in the movie since in she's doesn't seem so badly hurt. It would have been nice to see Eomer without a scowling face and furrowed eyebrows.
The LotR is something that can be enjoyed equally by adults and youth, men and women, fiction nerds and general film buffs. Fiction-wise I can't think of any movies that compare to the overall experience.
Maybe part of it is because I didn't read the books and so it is my first introduction to the whole story and all the characters, where as others who have read the books had certain expectations that the movies matchup with how they envisioned them when they read the trilogy. Hard thing to live up to....
Eugene:
An interesting project would be a completely chronological re-edit of all three films into one. Show the forging of the rings, the last battle of the Second Age, Smeagol and Deagol finding the ring, the retaking of Osgiliath with Boromir, etc. as it would happen instead of in flashbacks.
This will happen. Watch the commentary on TTT, they discuss it. Even if they don't do it, someone with software will (as PJ mentions). I look forward to someone ripping out all the footage from all 3 extended editions and splicing it up in some kind of weird, open-source community project. I bet PJ would think it was cool.
The movie makes it seem like Sam and Frodo cross Mordor in a few hours when it's really several days. Instead we get extended sexual gazes by the Hobbits at each other and superfluous scenes like the Deagol and Smeagol bit.
We have no idea the chronology of any of it. Seems like an odd thing to complain about. They show a long distance and Frodo and Sam walking, use your imagination. I would prefer not seeing "3 days later" on the screen or a montage of sunsets and sunrises (if you could even see those clearly in Mordor).
Hassan:
I thought "Arabs" immediately in both Two Towers and Return of the King. I thought the "MEN OF THE WEST!" bit of rally-speech was interesting as well.
ALLAHU AKBAR!
Originally posted by groverat
Hassan:
I thought "Arabs" immediately in both Two Towers and Return of the King. I thought the "MEN OF THE WEST!" bit of rally-speech was interesting as well.
Men of the West is another name for the Numenoreans, from which the Gondorians are descended. Numenor was an island beyond the west shores of Middle Earth.