The one notable exception is Eminem, who (like him or not) is not only one of the most talented hip-hop artists ever, but also arguably one of the greatest poets of our time.
...To hit the mainstream, let's not forget that.
eminem is good, but there are many many many other rappers who could serve him his ass on a plate out there.
I should think Hip-Hop is here to stay, there's a whole culture attached to it and there are a lot of genuine and serious artists involved in it.
about that, the most commonly accepted definition of hip-hop is that it's the culture that surrounds rap music.
whereas rap is just an MC and a beat, hip hop is rapping, beat boxing, breaking, graffiti, Scratching(Djs)...etc.
I agree with this definition somewhat, though I tend to just lump everything under the hip-hop umbrella now a days, as I said before, don't let genres define your taste, just use them to organize it.
This thread is about 20 years late? The question should have been asked then, around the same time when you could have asked "is new wave here to stay?"
So where do groups like Linkin Park and Linp Bizkit fall into this? Are they hip-hop or is rap-rock still considered a seperate genre?
I don't know what the official catagory is but I call them Ultra CRAP-rock!!!!
Lame metal that is best in Pick up trucks commercials . . .
and by the way, Punk was not 'Pop' until Nirvana broke the barrier crust . . . and then 'Alternative' became a recognizable catagory, and became just another commercial radio station option . . . this was well over a decade after Punk had allready become several shades of Post-punk . . .
I think they fall into the category of bands that started out in a particular genre, or at least with their own distinct style. But commercial success and pressures gradually squeeze the individuality and credibility out of them until they just become more pop. Welcome to America. No wonder I can't find any music that I actually want to hear on iTMS.
Maybe the difference is when the music carries an image, an aura that is creatively its own rather than fits an established market tested cookie cut stencil
Part of the appeal of music, particularly for young people, is getting involved with whatever the music is 'involved' in
. . . I guess that's one way of saying 'image'.
Its exciting to listen to something that is not only creative in its sound but that also shows creativity in its other aspects . . . I guess these other aspects combine to make the sum total of the music's aura and image
. . . but when that image might as well be the design of a marketing firm, which then plugs-in the musicians, and mainly because they have the required-du-jour-greasy-flat-hair, or tatoos etc . . . then the image becomes commercial and is not interesting to me . . . . if the music doesn't have the vitality to rise above that market image then it is uninterestting . . . . . and that fits the bill for most music these days . . .
Part of the creativity of music who's aura is resistent to that 'commercial image' is that it is ahead of the use of its image by other commodity sellers and image makers . . . it sheds the beer commercial aura long before the beer companies use the image to sell thier beer . . .it resists the usage of its vital creative image by other images . . . or, it does so in an undeniably creative and singular way . . .such as the Velvet Underground selling Warhol . . . or, viceaversa . .
I was watching some hip hop videos today in the gym, I starting counting between cuts, one thousand .. two and cut, one thousand... two and cut, one.. and cut, one thou... and cut. You get the idea.
Thats what it takes to hold peoples attention to the screen when the artist is devoid of personality or talent.
Speaking of personality and music artists... isnt that supposed to come after the talent, like, you hear a good song, so you learn about the artist and their personality.
That's what an "image" should be about, the artists' personality and image should augment their talent rather than define it.
For the record I do enjoy some eminem songs and I think he has talent (for making money at least). Not that I want anything to with his "scene"...
If you feel that all music is selling an image, and happily purchase that music because you feel that image is representative of who you are or who you want to be, then, well, more power to you...
Personally, I buy music that makes me feel a certain way that I want to feel, hip-hop generally doenst make me feel anything except, gee those chicks are hot ! and well the music doesnt exactly do that (that would be the epilepsy inducing videos). I generally prefer trance and electronica, with a little gothic alternative thrown in for my down days.
Obviously very popular among the black community but also with "wanna be black," white kids.
Roughly 75% of all Hip-Hop album sales go to white males between the ages of 15-18. I doubt you could make the claim that all those millions are "wannabes."
Rap and Hip-Hop are definitely here to stay. They've been around since the late seventies, and are becoming more popular every day. Artists will come and go like always, but the genre certainly has a sturdy foundation.
I enjoy some of the stuff, as well as occasional hard core Rap. But I got to wonder whether this genre is here for good. Obviously very popular among the black community but also with "wanna be black," white kids.
After seeing a program of how rich some of these Rap artists are (and their spending habits), I hoped they've saved for a rainy day. One only needs to look back at MC Hammer, Vanilla Ice, and Tone Loc to see where you can end up.
I watched a documentary on the English language yesterday. it was made in the 80s. And though I new that hip hop etc came from the late 70s (I remember how popular Grand Master Flash was) I was surprised to hear the rappers on a show about contemporary African-American Influenced English . . . the thing that surprised me was how little the slang has changed . . . the only word that I did not hear was 'Phat'
allthought that also is probably an old term . . . and the rap was very much the same except Break dancing was a bigger part of 'the scene'
anyway, I was surprised to see Outkast on SNLive the other night and to see an artist who's work seemed to have something new about it and yet still to be grown from the same roots . . . . I could be wrong as I haven't heard anything else of his . . . what do you all think?
Then don't listen to main stream hip-hop then. There is some really good stuff out there. I haven't bought many CDs lately (because of price, mainly), and the last 3 hip-hop CDs I bought (Blazing Arrow by Blackalicious, Phrenology by the Roots, and Speakerboxxx/The Love Below by Outkast) don't fit into the category that you've created (ok, the Love Below is all about sex, but it's melodic and catchy).
I dont 't. I do, however, listen to Rap IE beatnuts, swollen members, dilated peoples, copywrite, trobiz. I think hip-hop is a waste. Well mainstream hip-hop that is.
If you know of other artists who are that good, please share! Seriously!
ADeeM - very talented freestyle rapper, when I first heard him I nearly fell over in hysterics
Aesop Rock- What this dude lacks in rhymes he makes up in flow and flavor, his voice is terrific , and his raps are very insightful
MC paul barman - this guy is kind of weird, his rhymes are unbelievably clever, he throws in more wordplay and internal rhymes and all sorts of things than I've probably ever heard, on top of that, nothing is sacred in terms of sex talk, which is one of his fortes, but it's all very humorous and clever. (' My dandy voice makes the most anti-choice grannies panties moist' , "I want to get with the hairy scar or terri garr" )
blackalicious -gift of gab is the rapper here, he is one of the most technically skillful rappers I've ever heard he has a rap where he raps through the alphabet while speeding up, very neat. He's like the victor wooten of rappers
eyedea(has defeated eminem in freestyle battles) I haven't heard much from him, except a few tracks and a handful of freestyle battles, he is very creative, and has a good flow, a well rounded rapper, with a lot of talent.
to name a few
when I talk about rappers I like though, it's not all about rhyming for me, it's a combination of flow, delivery, rhymes, rhythm, voice and overall feel. For me, Eminem, while very skillful with raps, has an annoying voice, and an annoying flow, and he isn't very bold with playing with rhythms and such, and I'm not a big fan of his beats either(for the most part)
If you know of other artists who are that good, please share! Seriously!
Not sure if anyone's mentioned him yet but Brother Ali is definitely one to keep an eye out for. He's independent right now but I expect him to hit the big time when word gets around (Check out an article on him at hiphopdx.com).
Also, if ya lookin' for the whole package rather than just the flow (as much as I respect all those underground rappers that have crazy lyrical skills, I can only listen to freestyles for so long, especially over tired beats), ya need to check out the 'conscious' rappers - Mos Def, Common (Sense), Talib Kweli, Tragedy Khadafi, Littles. The latter are unknown in the mainstream but have some classic tracks (check out the Kanye West track 'Get By' on Kweli's Quality LP)
Comments
Originally posted by Influenza
The one notable exception is Eminem, who (like him or not) is not only one of the most talented hip-hop artists ever, but also arguably one of the greatest poets of our time.
...To hit the mainstream, let's not forget that.
eminem is good, but there are many many many other rappers who could serve him his ass on a plate out there.
Originally posted by SquidThing
I should think Hip-Hop is here to stay, there's a whole culture attached to it and there are a lot of genuine and serious artists involved in it.
about that, the most commonly accepted definition of hip-hop is that it's the culture that surrounds rap music.
whereas rap is just an MC and a beat, hip hop is rapping, beat boxing, breaking, graffiti, Scratching(Djs)...etc.
I agree with this definition somewhat, though I tend to just lump everything under the hip-hop umbrella now a days, as I said before, don't let genres define your taste, just use them to organize it.
Originally posted by PhenixReborn
So where do groups like Linkin Park and Linp Bizkit fall into this? Are they hip-hop or is rap-rock still considered a seperate genre?
I don't know what the official catagory is but I call them Ultra CRAP-rock!!!!
Lame metal that is best in Pick up trucks commercials . . .
and by the way, Punk was not 'Pop' until Nirvana broke the barrier crust . . . and then 'Alternative' became a recognizable catagory, and became just another commercial radio station option . . . this was well over a decade after Punk had allready become several shades of Post-punk . . .
Originally posted by Influenza
I think they fall into the category of bands that started out in a particular genre, or at least with their own distinct style. But commercial success and pressures gradually squeeze the individuality and credibility out of them until they just become more pop. Welcome to America. No wonder I can't find any music that I actually want to hear on iTMS.
true
but then so is the Dutch Goat Hearding music craze of the early 1910s.
Part of the appeal of music, particularly for young people, is getting involved with whatever the music is 'involved' in
. . . I guess that's one way of saying 'image'.
Its exciting to listen to something that is not only creative in its sound but that also shows creativity in its other aspects . . . I guess these other aspects combine to make the sum total of the music's aura and image
. . . but when that image might as well be the design of a marketing firm, which then plugs-in the musicians, and mainly because they have the required-du-jour-greasy-flat-hair, or tatoos etc . . . then the image becomes commercial and is not interesting to me . . . . if the music doesn't have the vitality to rise above that market image then it is uninterestting . . . . . and that fits the bill for most music these days . . .
Part of the creativity of music who's aura is resistent to that 'commercial image' is that it is ahead of the use of its image by other commodity sellers and image makers . . . it sheds the beer commercial aura long before the beer companies use the image to sell thier beer . . .it resists the usage of its vital creative image by other images . . . or, it does so in an undeniably creative and singular way . . .such as the Velvet Underground selling Warhol . . . or, viceaversa . .
Originally posted by Wrong Robot
...To hit the mainstream, let's not forget that.
eminem is good, but there are many many many other rappers who could serve him his ass on a plate out there.
If you know of other artists who are that good, please share! Seriously!
Thats what it takes to hold peoples attention to the screen when the artist is devoid of personality or talent.
Speaking of personality and music artists... isnt that supposed to come after the talent, like, you hear a good song, so you learn about the artist and their personality.
That's what an "image" should be about, the artists' personality and image should augment their talent rather than define it.
For the record I do enjoy some eminem songs and I think he has talent (for making money at least). Not that I want anything to with his "scene"...
If you feel that all music is selling an image, and happily purchase that music because you feel that image is representative of who you are or who you want to be, then, well, more power to you...
Personally, I buy music that makes me feel a certain way that I want to feel, hip-hop generally doenst make me feel anything except, gee those chicks are hot ! and well the music doesnt exactly do that (that would be the epilepsy inducing videos). I generally prefer trance and electronica, with a little gothic alternative thrown in for my down days.
Cheers,
P.S. turning out to be an interesting thread..
Originally posted by satchmo
Obviously very popular among the black community but also with "wanna be black," white kids.
Roughly 75% of all Hip-Hop album sales go to white males between the ages of 15-18. I doubt you could make the claim that all those millions are "wannabes."
Rap and Hip-Hop are definitely here to stay. They've been around since the late seventies, and are becoming more popular every day. Artists will come and go like always, but the genre certainly has a sturdy foundation.
Originally posted by satchmo
I enjoy some of the stuff, as well as occasional hard core Rap. But I got to wonder whether this genre is here for good. Obviously very popular among the black community but also with "wanna be black," white kids.
After seeing a program of how rich some of these Rap artists are (and their spending habits), I hoped they've saved for a rainy day. One only needs to look back at MC Hammer, Vanilla Ice, and Tone Loc to see where you can end up.
lets hop it tunes out
allthought that also is probably an old term . . . and the rap was very much the same except Break dancing was a bigger part of 'the scene'
anyway, I was surprised to see Outkast on SNLive the other night and to see an artist who's work seemed to have something new about it and yet still to be grown from the same roots . . . . I could be wrong as I haven't heard anything else of his . . . what do you all think?
Originally posted by agent302
Then don't listen to main stream hip-hop then. There is some really good stuff out there. I haven't bought many CDs lately (because of price, mainly), and the last 3 hip-hop CDs I bought (Blazing Arrow by Blackalicious, Phrenology by the Roots, and Speakerboxxx/The Love Below by Outkast) don't fit into the category that you've created (ok, the Love Below is all about sex, but it's melodic and catchy).
I dont 't. I do, however, listen to Rap IE beatnuts, swollen members, dilated peoples, copywrite, trobiz. I think hip-hop is a waste. Well mainstream hip-hop that is.
Originally posted by Influenza
If you know of other artists who are that good, please share! Seriously!
ADeeM - very talented freestyle rapper, when I first heard him I nearly fell over in hysterics
Aesop Rock- What this dude lacks in rhymes he makes up in flow and flavor, his voice is terrific , and his raps are very insightful
MC paul barman - this guy is kind of weird, his rhymes are unbelievably clever, he throws in more wordplay and internal rhymes and all sorts of things than I've probably ever heard, on top of that, nothing is sacred in terms of sex talk, which is one of his fortes, but it's all very humorous and clever. (' My dandy voice makes the most anti-choice grannies panties moist' , "I want to get with the hairy scar or terri garr" )
blackalicious -gift of gab is the rapper here, he is one of the most technically skillful rappers I've ever heard he has a rap where he raps through the alphabet while speeding up, very neat. He's like the victor wooten of rappers
eyedea(has defeated eminem in freestyle battles) I haven't heard much from him, except a few tracks and a handful of freestyle battles, he is very creative, and has a good flow, a well rounded rapper, with a lot of talent.
to name a few
when I talk about rappers I like though, it's not all about rhyming for me, it's a combination of flow, delivery, rhymes, rhythm, voice and overall feel. For me, Eminem, while very skillful with raps, has an annoying voice, and an annoying flow, and he isn't very bold with playing with rhythms and such, and I'm not a big fan of his beats either(for the most part)
Originally posted by Influenza
If you know of other artists who are that good, please share! Seriously!
Not sure if anyone's mentioned him yet but Brother Ali is definitely one to keep an eye out for. He's independent right now but I expect him to hit the big time when word gets around (Check out an article on him at hiphopdx.com).
Also, if ya lookin' for the whole package rather than just the flow (as much as I respect all those underground rappers that have crazy lyrical skills, I can only listen to freestyles for so long, especially over tired beats), ya need to check out the 'conscious' rappers - Mos Def, Common (Sense), Talib Kweli, Tragedy Khadafi, Littles. The latter are unknown in the mainstream but have some classic tracks (check out the Kanye West track 'Get By' on Kweli's Quality LP)