Consumers are buying notebooks in ever-increasing numbers
The iBook over the iMac 2 is a fine argument if iBook sales hit the 300-400K numbers reached by the original iMac.
But, strangely, the iBook isn't.
Why? (Maybe Apple needs to get the iBook price down even lower and make it the eMac for consumers. Leaving the eMac nowhere to go but to dump it's fat ass off the nearest cliff for landfill...)
For the 1st time, Powerbook sales were well and truly running the iBook sales almost out of town.
Personally? As nice as the iBook is (hey, I'm typing on one while the Athlon spends time with the 'off' switch... ) I can't help but feel it needs a design make over. The 'Powerbook' look seems to be a hit. Perhaps the low-end Powerbook can have another couple of tiers lower...or make the next iBook ape the Powerbook look. (Maybe the iBook can go with the Powerbook G4 look as the Powerbook moves onto a 'G5 Powerbook' look...?)
Apple are storming the gates of growth here in the UK! Powerbooks proving very popular. I can see why. They approach the capability of desktops for most tasks. Look gorgeous. Portable. Good product streamlining by price, spec...and the screen size gives people what they want. There's plenty of choice from within the 'confines' of the laptop product...right down to the iBook entry.
The iMac 2 doesn't succeed on the same level... It's not a laptop, so why can't it be upgraded? Where's the graphics slot? The ability to hook up the monitor I wish? It's a desktop, isn't it? Perhaps, as Amorph said, what are you getting over a Powerbook? Not much. 17 inch Powerbook or 20 inch iMac 2? I'd take the Powerbook 17 inch for the extra half a K. And I'm a desktop man. (Who'd a thunk Powerbook sales outselling iMac sales a few years ago?)
What's it going to take to make the iMac a desktop proposition again?
Because, the current model is failing on too many levels.
Note that many of the separate consumer desktops offered by Apple couldn't be purchased without monitors (notably, the LC series) so they were AIOs for all practical purposes, only needlessly complicated by a two-part design.
Then it's about time Apple got a grip and offered something the PC market actually wants. (And enough non-AIO desktop products get sold by Dell, Sony, IBM, HP/Compaq each quarter to blot out Apple's fig leaf of marketshare...)
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needlessly complicated by a two-part design
An interesting phrase. (So much so, I felt compelled to quote it twice...)
Everybody in PC land from Aunty Gladyss to Linux Man seem to be able to cope with the two part design. I'm sure it is well within Ive's abilities to make a compelling two part design. He's proven that with the studio displays and the G5 tower.
I dare say you could have a beautiful platinum or white studio display to go with a platinum or enamel white mini-tower case. (There are one or two consumer PC tower cases that are almost looking decent these days.)
I do like the idea of a monitor that looks cool with the 'headless' iMac or without. Much as the current studio displays look okay with a Powerbook or G5 tower. The best thing would be to take the best bit of the iMac 2 (the chrome arm...) and apply the principle to the studio displays and free up the base to offer the flexibility and power of the desktop concept. The eMac and iMac 2 fall way short of most consumer PC towers in terms of flexibility, power and price.
It needn't be this way. Maybe the current consumer desktop sales hiatus will force Apple to...
So, psychologically, I wonder how a 2-piece thing would do? With ADC (and yes, evern Bluetooth for mouse and keyboard), there isn't this big hassle to connect things. Honestly - and I've said thisbefore - if someone can't connect a simple cable from the display to a CPU, then they really don't need to be spending money on a computer. They should go buy a rowboat or lawn darts or a front porch swing or something instead.
Short of Apple going on an all-out, in-your-face marketing blitz (I won't hold my breath), maybe the best, most straightforward way to go after that "other 95%" is to simply give people what they've been screaming for going on 4 years now (hey, watch Matsu glow!): a small, sexy, semi-upgradeable "headless iMac", designed, from the ground up, to be paired with cool-ass, sexy matching Apple displays OR simply used with someone's current, beloved display, be it LCD or CRT.
It's the OS and the iApps and .Mac and iLife 04 and Keynote and Final Cut Express that makes being a Mac user cool. Yes, the hardware rocks, but if it's been "getting in the way" in its current form, then you look to change that. I know Steve says "AIO", but I bet he's also said a lot of other things over the past 4-5 years he's kinda had to go back on. He doesn't know everything and he's not always 100% dead-on.
If people want choice, flexibility, a pizza box, a headless iMac, a reborn Cube (done right this time), etc. then think about giving it to them.
Besides, I have no doubts Ive can come up with something to make it extra special and dazzling, so it'll be far from your typical cheeseball, cookie-cutter "tower + monitor" thing. Some sort of previously untried "WOW!" factor to elevate above what it could be, while still addressing the shortcomings of the AIO.
What could a case, roughly the size of one of those thin Performas -or even a 7100 - be made for?
Yeah, I think a glossy white mini-tower or "pizza" or whatever-the-hell paired with a MATCHING glossy white LCD would be soooooo nice-looking. I actually doodled just that neary two years ago, pretty much covering a G4 Cube and 15" Studio Display in glossy white with chrome accents.
I think that would be great. And I'm not in favor of applying any sort of "aluminum look" to the iMac. I think the pro stuff should be that look (as currently is) and the consumer, iStuff stay in that nice sleek, glossy white (iMac, iBook and eMac). Makes a nice distinction.
I recently set up a Dell for a friend. There were 6 steps to setting up the PC itself, which took almost no time. The real shocker was the printer - it had 12 steps, some of them quite involved. I told the friend I had another appointment and got out of there.
Short of Apple going on an all-out, in-your-face marketing blitz (I won't hold my breath), maybe the best, most straightforward way to go after that "other 95%" is to simply give people what they've been screaming for going on 4 years now (hey, watch Matsu glow!): a small, sexy, semi-upgradeable "headless iMac", designed, from the ground up, to be paired with cool-ass, sexy matching Apple displays OR simply used with someone's current, beloved display, be it LCD or CRT.
It's the OS and the iApps and .Mac and iLife 04 and Keynote and Final Cut Express that makes being a Mac user cool. Yes, the hardware rocks, but if it's been "getting in the way" in its current form, then you look to change that. I know Steve says "AIO", but I bet he's also said a lot of other things over the past 4-5 years he's kinda had to go back on. He doesn't know everything and he's not always 100% dead-on.
If people want choice, flexibility, a pizza box, a headless iMac, a reborn Cube (done right this time), etc. then think about giving it to them.
Besides, I have no doubts Ive can come up with something to make it extra special and dazzling, so it'll be far from your typical cheeseball, cookie-cutter "tower + monitor" thing. Some sort of previously untried "WOW!" factor to elevate above what it could be, while still addressing the shortcomings of the AIO.
Exactly! Choice, a word which isn't bandied around here very often , is what the consumer wants. And like you say pscates, Steve has said a lot of things over the years, the CRT is dead being one of them, only to intro the eMac about 4 months later.
With the inroads Apple are now making with the iTunes Music Store and the iPod, it would be an extremely foolish move to not capitalise on this success. If the customer wants a cheap computer other than an AIO, give it to them. If it isn't as successful as people on here would like it to be (myself included), well, nothing ventured, nothing gained. Better to have tried it than to just stick to your guns (cutting off your nose to spite your face?) and, potentially, missing that huge market.
Yeah, I really do think that sometimes things should be "simple but no simpler" than they have to be. People just know the two part design because that's pretty much the Windows standard, the AIO is sort of an Apple creation, and the iMac is obviously the continuation of the concept. AIO is nothing to me other than a fashion or design statement. It really doesnt make anything easier, it complicates things in the minds of PC users, if nothing else.
I actually had someone ask me, many times and people actually ask, "Where is the computer." Then you tell them that the base is the computer and they are shocked. Even if it IS easier for smart people(Mac users), it's harder for people's dumb habbits (the Windows way) to be broken by even the most intelligent of designs and concepts.
So why doesnt Apple just give Mac users an upgradeable two piece computer? It will be easy for us to figure out and it WONT BE A CHANGE for the other 95%!!!
When I took my iMac DV to my Mom's to get her "hooked on Macs", I sat it on her desk and began plugging it in, connecting the keyboard, etc. and she stoops over and begins looking under the desk, behind the desk, etc.
"What are you looking for?" I asked.
"I don't see the computer part of it...where is it?"
I point to the iMac.
"Yeah, that's the monitor...but where's the other part?"
She totally freaked when I told her "this is IT...the entire thing, all inside here." She was highly impressed.
they look ultra cool but the design defies logic...
and how do they ship the things without the arm snapping?(because UPS has their elephants sit on every box(never had a box from ups arrive in good condition))
and FTLOG LET ME USE MY FSCKING CRT (its a $$ thing why spend an extra 500$ when my 17 inch crt works finr)
Yeah, I think things are quite different now from 3-4 years ago. We've all said "but it HAS to be an AIO because..", but people on the PC side - even those not "into" computers - manage to hook displays and peripherals to separate towers all the time.
Actually, they grab the designated Computer Savvy Person and have them do it.
I know this because I get grabbed a lot.
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And here's something I was wondering about too, but I'm not sure how "out there" it is: I wonder about the psychological impact of an AIO...do you think they're somehow seen, right or wrong, as somehow less than a "real" computer? Was that an ugly, untalked-about flipside to the original iMac's cuteness and color: now everything sporting the iMac name - and being an AIO - is somehw seen as "toyish" and not a real or serious computer? I don't know, I'm asking.
...I'm just trying to get into the head of a PC-using Spec Whore type, and the "more is gooder" and "gotta have a tower" mentality shared by many.
I think you're essentially right. The Mac has been scorned as not a "real" computer since 1984, and the "cute AIO" charge has been levelled on and off since 1984. The question is not whether this annoys a particular kind of PC enthusiast that currently (and necessarily) functions as a gatekeeper. The question is whether Apple can get past them to the much, much larger market of people who are afraid enough of computers and of Dell's labyrinthine online store that they have someone else configure and set up their machine.
The same things that make PCs attractive to the swap-meet crowd makes them unsuitable as consumer machines. It's not an easy fence to straddle, and I'd prefer it if Apple stayed on the side that Apple's traditionally been on, and make their case directly to the end users. After all, they did manage to gain significant market share with this strategy, and the closest they've come to regaining it was with a multicolored jellybean AIO.
Placating the gatekeepers might generate a few more sales, but at the cost of selling out the brand. You don't want people to feel intimidated by their machines, to feel that they have to find a Designated Expert every time something out of the ordinary happens.
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It's the OS and the iApps and .Mac and iLife 04 and Keynote and Final Cut Express that makes being a Mac user cool. Yes, the hardware rocks, but if it's been "getting in the way" in its current form, then you look to change that. I know Steve says "AIO", but I bet he's also said a lot of other things over the past 4-5 years he's kinda had to go back on. He doesn't know everything and he's not always 100% dead-on.
If people want choice, flexibility, a pizza box, a headless iMac, a reborn Cube (done right this time), etc. then think about giving it to them.
I don't really care what Steve says about it. The iMac is an AIO. This is a design philosophy that I trace back all the way to the original Macintosh, and one that was remarkably successful even when the "real computer" snobs (most of whom used DOS machines, rather than real computers ) derided them as "gay" and "dumbed down".
I think that the people calling for a "flexible" machine are among the gatekeepers, for the most part. The "choice" platform ignores the easiest choice to set up, the most compact choice, and the cheapest choice to manufacture (considering the system, of course, and since people still buy whole systems all at once, statistically, that's what matters).
Interesting. So why can't they bridge that? I mean, you got gatekeepers on one side and raw newbies on the other. Neither seem that impressed or engaged. The newbies/consumers invariably are swayed by their gatekeeping co-workers and brother-in-law and so forth.
They can't make a decision and the people they trust to tell them stuff don't seem overly fond of Apple. Meanwhile Apple has a bitchin' and sexy computer that even many Mac users aren't too nuts about anymore (for a variety of reasons).
Apple doesn't really pursue things. Potential customers don't know. PC-based Spec Whores with a grudge against Apple certainly don't help because their less-informed buddies and co-workers see them as the ones "in the know".
Personally, I dig the all-in-one. It's all I've owned in the past 4-plus years (iMac DV and iMac G4. I'm not impressed by towers and shit, but I figure, at some point, it ain't about me.
It SHOULD be (but that's a whole other thread... )
But seriously, so what's the approach? Do we wait and see if Apple makes some inroads into business/corporate environments?
Or is this just simply how it is? Great software, a stellar OS and the sexiest hardware that's ever existed. But because of gatekeepers and know-nothings and Spec Whores and MHz myths and Apple's ultra-laidback approach to promoting itself, only a select, devoted and adventuresome 3-4% of us get to experience it?
Hey, I just want more sold. I want more people using them (certainly makes MY life easier, since I'll actually be able to help Mac-using friends and family when they run into problems or have questions). AIOs? Fine. Mini-towers? Fine too. A reborn Cube? Okay, whatever. I don't know. If you look in one direction and see things kinda laying there, you look to other areas.
But we're not sure about that either? I don't know.
In your true, honest opinion amorph...what could/should Apple be doing that they're not doing? I know in that other thread a while back you spoke of waiting and "in a few years". But do you still feel that?
Maybe I don't fully get this. Let me re-read your above post though again, really good.
Basically, I recently pointed out - was being cheeky about it, but once I said it and people responded, I realized what a true nugget of brilliance it was - that maybe Apple needs to start selling colored jellybean computers again.
That was certainly the cresting point, those 1999 times.
Everything changes though and time to move on. But what's keeping the current AIO from being the massive, popular hit the original iMac was?
Such interesting questions.
I think most people don't know what they want. They wait to be told by their co-worker or brother-in-law who "knows them computers and stuff".
And that's almost always a disaster, because you KNOW what gets recommended. And bought.
Even though I am an ardent supporter of the iMac in uts current configuration, I feel that a change is needed. What Apple really needs to do is produce a computer that will really compete with Wintel nachines - more power, more memory, etc. If it can be done as an AIO great! However, I agree with the thought of a headless imac - one in which the buyer can decide the monitor size. It should also come with more than a paltry 256 MB of RAM. Most PC's today come with 512 MB RAM or more as standard. Apple hyas to get it tyhrough its thick skull that people want choices! Design a Mac like that and people will buy it.
Interesting. So why can't they bridge that? I mean, you got gatekeepers on one side and raw newbies on the other. Neither seem that impressed or engaged. The newbies/consumers invariably are swayed by their gatekeeping co-workers and brother-in-law and so forth.
In your true, honest opinion amorph...what could/should Apple be doing that they're not doing? I know in that other thread a while back you spoke of waiting and "in a few years". But do you still feel that?
Maybe I don't fully get this. Let me re-read your above post though again, really good.
That's the question, really, and it's not an easy question. I'm not going to sit here and pretend that I know the answer to it, either. Apple got the attention of the press; they released a killer OS; they released one bit of killer hardware after another; they ran an ad campaign targeting the easiest switchers (people who, fairly or unfairly, are completely fed up with Windows) and got it out everywhere. And... *crickets chirp*
That's despite the fact that OS X and the G5 and the PowerBook have an unprecedented amount of gatekeeper cred.
So they're going indirectly. Look at how completely the iPod mini has flummoxed the tech press. They can't understand why you'd buy one, and by all accounts people just have to have them. People who ordinarily don't go ga-ga over gadgetry are demanding them. Apple can use this in two different ways: They can hope that the iPod mini establishes a strong enough link between Apple and the folks on the other side of the gate that they feel confident in going out and getting a Mac themselves, and failing that, they can keep releasing things that get Apple more press and more market penetration and more money so that they can afford to keep trying other ideas.
I say not to wait a few years, but not to expect results for a few years at worst. That's assuming that Apple fights hard the whole time. That's just because Apple is up against network effects, and network effects are incredibly stubborn and resilient. You can't really make linear progress against them. They hold until they collapse. Of course, you can't predict when that'll happen, really, but Apple has to be firing on all cylinders when it does. I say a few years so that people don't get their hopes up that this or that strategy will work. If it were that simple, Apple would have 10% market share now.
Yeah, I totally see. I'm CONSTANTLY amazed (basically everytime I sit down at my PowerBook and launch iPhoto, iTunes or Sherlock) that 10% is just not a given.
Sigh...
I keep hoping that the iPod and iTMS are a stronger, more forceful "Trojan horse" than they've appeared to be so far. The iPods are doing great, but I wonder if PC-owning iPod buyers are seriously looking beyond the iPod, to the degree that perhaps Apple - and many of us - had hoped?
Apple can't put EVERYTHING on the back of the iPod. At some point, they're going to have to raise a bit of a ruckus and call some attention to themselves if they're truly serious about that whole "5% down, 95% to go" business (and even if they're not...they SHOULD be!). Boneheads.
I do think Apple could do a whole lot worse than try to recreate the lifesaver iMacs. Those were a real high point.
Their achilles heel was retail; retailers hated ordering the five-packs. Maybe now that Apple's a retailer they'll think that whole thing through a little more carefully, and give it another shot. Because I really do think that being able to choose a color is important psychologically. It makes the product yours in a way that it isn't if it looks exactly like every other one.
Something to consider. The current iMac, stunning as it is, does not lend itself to coloration at all.
LBB: Good point about iBook sales. That's one reason why I think the iBook is almost there. It doesn't quite replace the iMac yet, but it's close. The huge trend upward in PowerBook sales can be explained, unfortunately, as the PowerBook being a suitable replacement for the PowerMac for a lot of users - or even an improvement, insofar as it's portable.
I'm one that actually thinks that the porting of the iPod software to the IBM platoform was a mistake as far as increasing sales of Macs go. It will actually have a negative impact in my mind.
While publicly Apple has said that they don't make money on the music store, I personally don't see that going on for long. The long term goal is probally to make the music store a profit center along with the iPods. Apple should really be looking at the razor blade manufacture here, they are trying to make their profits in the wrong place. Its should all be in the blades (downloads).
Dave
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Originally posted by pscates
Yeah, I totally see. I'm CONSTANTLY amazed (basically everytime I sit down at my PowerBook and launch iPhoto, iTunes or Sherlock) that 10% is just not a given.
Sigh...
I keep hoping that the iPod and iTMS are a stronger, more forceful "Trojan horse" than they've appeared to be so far. The iPods are doing great, but I wonder if PC-owning iPod buyers are seriously looking beyond the iPod, to the degree that perhaps Apple - and many of us - had hoped?
Apple can't put EVERYTHING on the back of the iPod. At some point, they're going to have to raise a bit of a ruckus and call some attention to themselves if they're truly serious about that whole "5% down, 95% to go" business (and even if they're not...they SHOULD be!). Boneheads.
Comments
Consumers are buying notebooks in ever-increasing numbers
The iBook over the iMac 2 is a fine argument if iBook sales hit the 300-400K numbers reached by the original iMac.
But, strangely, the iBook isn't.
Why? (Maybe Apple needs to get the iBook price down even lower and make it the eMac for consumers. Leaving the eMac nowhere to go but to dump it's fat ass off the nearest cliff for landfill...)
For the 1st time, Powerbook sales were well and truly running the iBook sales almost out of town.
Personally? As nice as the iBook is (hey, I'm typing on one while the Athlon spends time with the 'off' switch...
Apple are storming the gates of growth here in the UK! Powerbooks proving very popular. I can see why. They approach the capability of desktops for most tasks. Look gorgeous. Portable. Good product streamlining by price, spec...and the screen size gives people what they want. There's plenty of choice from within the 'confines' of the laptop product...right down to the iBook entry.
The iMac 2 doesn't succeed on the same level... It's not a laptop, so why can't it be upgraded? Where's the graphics slot? The ability to hook up the monitor I wish? It's a desktop, isn't it? Perhaps, as Amorph said, what are you getting over a Powerbook? Not much. 17 inch Powerbook or 20 inch iMac 2? I'd take the Powerbook 17 inch for the extra half a K. And I'm a desktop man. (Who'd a thunk Powerbook sales outselling iMac sales a few years ago?)
What's it going to take to make the iMac a desktop proposition again?
Because, the current model is failing on too many levels.
Lemon Bon Bon
Note that many of the separate consumer desktops offered by Apple couldn't be purchased without monitors (notably, the LC series) so they were AIOs for all practical purposes, only needlessly complicated by a two-part design.
Then it's about time Apple got a grip and offered something the PC market actually wants. (And enough non-AIO desktop products get sold by Dell, Sony, IBM, HP/Compaq each quarter to blot out Apple's fig leaf of marketshare...)
needlessly complicated by a two-part design
An interesting phrase. (So much so, I felt compelled to quote it twice...)
Everybody in PC land from Aunty Gladyss to Linux Man seem to be able to cope with the two part design. I'm sure it is well within Ive's abilities to make a compelling two part design. He's proven that with the studio displays and the G5 tower.
I dare say you could have a beautiful platinum or white studio display to go with a platinum or enamel white mini-tower case. (There are one or two consumer PC tower cases that are almost looking decent these days.)
I do like the idea of a monitor that looks cool with the 'headless' iMac or without. Much as the current studio displays look okay with a Powerbook or G5 tower. The best thing would be to take the best bit of the iMac 2 (the chrome arm...) and apply the principle to the studio displays and free up the base to offer the flexibility and power of the desktop concept. The eMac and iMac 2 fall way short of most consumer PC towers in terms of flexibility, power and price.
It needn't be this way. Maybe the current consumer desktop sales hiatus will force Apple to...
'Think Different.'
Lemon Bon Bon
So, psychologically, I wonder how a 2-piece thing would do? With ADC (and yes, evern Bluetooth for mouse and keyboard), there isn't this big hassle to connect things. Honestly - and I've said thisbefore - if someone can't connect a simple cable from the display to a CPU, then they really don't need to be spending money on a computer. They should go buy a rowboat or lawn darts or a front porch swing or something instead.
Short of Apple going on an all-out, in-your-face marketing blitz (I won't hold my breath), maybe the best, most straightforward way to go after that "other 95%" is to simply give people what they've been screaming for going on 4 years now (hey, watch Matsu glow!): a small, sexy, semi-upgradeable "headless iMac", designed, from the ground up, to be paired with cool-ass, sexy matching Apple displays OR simply used with someone's current, beloved display, be it LCD or CRT.
It's the OS and the iApps and .Mac and iLife 04 and Keynote and Final Cut Express that makes being a Mac user cool. Yes, the hardware rocks, but if it's been "getting in the way" in its current form, then you look to change that. I know Steve says "AIO", but I bet he's also said a lot of other things over the past 4-5 years he's kinda had to go back on. He doesn't know everything and he's not always 100% dead-on.
If people want choice, flexibility, a pizza box, a headless iMac, a reborn Cube (done right this time), etc. then think about giving it to them.
Besides, I have no doubts Ive can come up with something to make it extra special and dazzling, so it'll be far from your typical cheeseball, cookie-cutter "tower + monitor" thing. Some sort of previously untried "WOW!" factor to elevate above what it could be, while still addressing the shortcomings of the AIO.
What could a case, roughly the size of one of those thin Performas -or even a 7100 - be made for?
This is a good post.
Lemon Bon Bon
I think that would be great. And I'm not in favor of applying any sort of "aluminum look" to the iMac. I think the pro stuff should be that look (as currently is) and the consumer, iStuff stay in that nice sleek, glossy white (iMac, iBook and eMac). Makes a nice distinction.
Pro/"Power" stuff: aluminum
Consumer/"iStuff": white
Nice and simple and anyone can keep it straight.
Aluminum iMacs? Ugh...no thanks!
Originally posted by tak1108
...And as far as the "three step process"
1) Plug in computer
2) Plug in monitor
3) there is no step three.
...
I recently set up a Dell for a friend. There were 6 steps to setting up the PC itself, which took almost no time. The real shocker was the printer - it had 12 steps, some of them quite involved. I told the friend I had another appointment and got out of there.
Originally posted by pscates
Short of Apple going on an all-out, in-your-face marketing blitz (I won't hold my breath), maybe the best, most straightforward way to go after that "other 95%" is to simply give people what they've been screaming for going on 4 years now (hey, watch Matsu glow!): a small, sexy, semi-upgradeable "headless iMac", designed, from the ground up, to be paired with cool-ass, sexy matching Apple displays OR simply used with someone's current, beloved display, be it LCD or CRT.
It's the OS and the iApps and .Mac and iLife 04 and Keynote and Final Cut Express that makes being a Mac user cool. Yes, the hardware rocks, but if it's been "getting in the way" in its current form, then you look to change that. I know Steve says "AIO", but I bet he's also said a lot of other things over the past 4-5 years he's kinda had to go back on. He doesn't know everything and he's not always 100% dead-on.
If people want choice, flexibility, a pizza box, a headless iMac, a reborn Cube (done right this time), etc. then think about giving it to them.
Besides, I have no doubts Ive can come up with something to make it extra special and dazzling, so it'll be far from your typical cheeseball, cookie-cutter "tower + monitor" thing. Some sort of previously untried "WOW!" factor to elevate above what it could be, while still addressing the shortcomings of the AIO.
Exactly! Choice, a word which isn't bandied around here very often
With the inroads Apple are now making with the iTunes Music Store and the iPod, it would be an extremely foolish move to not capitalise on this success. If the customer wants a cheap computer other than an AIO, give it to them. If it isn't as successful as people on here would like it to be (myself included), well, nothing ventured, nothing gained. Better to have tried it than to just stick to your guns (cutting off your nose to spite your face?) and, potentially, missing that huge market.
I actually had someone ask me, many times and people actually ask, "Where is the computer." Then you tell them that the base is the computer and they are shocked. Even if it IS easier for smart people(Mac users), it's harder for people's dumb habbits (the Windows way) to be broken by even the most intelligent of designs and concepts.
So why doesnt Apple just give Mac users an upgradeable two piece computer? It will be easy for us to figure out and it WONT BE A CHANGE for the other 95%!!!
When I took my iMac DV to my Mom's to get her "hooked on Macs", I sat it on her desk and began plugging it in, connecting the keyboard, etc. and she stoops over and begins looking under the desk, behind the desk, etc.
"What are you looking for?" I asked.
"I don't see the computer part of it...where is it?"
I point to the iMac.
"Yeah, that's the monitor...but where's the other part?"
She totally freaked when I told her "this is IT...the entire thing, all inside here." She was highly impressed.
"IT'S ALL IN THERE?!? That's cool!"
(cutting off your nose to spite your face?)
Or cutting yer sales off yer profits to spite your marketshare...
Lemon Bon Bon
they look ultra cool but the design defies logic...
and how do they ship the things without the arm snapping?(because UPS has their elephants sit on every box(never had a box from ups arrive in good condition))
and FTLOG LET ME USE MY FSCKING CRT (its a $$ thing why spend an extra 500$ when my 17 inch crt works finr)
Originally posted by pscates
Yeah, I think things are quite different now from 3-4 years ago. We've all said "but it HAS to be an AIO because..", but people on the PC side - even those not "into" computers - manage to hook displays and peripherals to separate towers all the time.
Actually, they grab the designated Computer Savvy Person and have them do it.
I know this because I get grabbed a lot.
And here's something I was wondering about too, but I'm not sure how "out there" it is: I wonder about the psychological impact of an AIO...do you think they're somehow seen, right or wrong, as somehow less than a "real" computer? Was that an ugly, untalked-about flipside to the original iMac's cuteness and color: now everything sporting the iMac name - and being an AIO - is somehw seen as "toyish" and not a real or serious computer? I don't know, I'm asking.
...I'm just trying to get into the head of a PC-using Spec Whore type, and the "more is gooder" and "gotta have a tower" mentality shared by many.
I think you're essentially right. The Mac has been scorned as not a "real" computer since 1984, and the "cute AIO" charge has been levelled on and off since 1984. The question is not whether this annoys a particular kind of PC enthusiast that currently (and necessarily) functions as a gatekeeper. The question is whether Apple can get past them to the much, much larger market of people who are afraid enough of computers and of Dell's labyrinthine online store that they have someone else configure and set up their machine.
The same things that make PCs attractive to the swap-meet crowd makes them unsuitable as consumer machines. It's not an easy fence to straddle, and I'd prefer it if Apple stayed on the side that Apple's traditionally been on, and make their case directly to the end users. After all, they did manage to gain significant market share with this strategy, and the closest they've come to regaining it was with a multicolored jellybean AIO.
Placating the gatekeepers might generate a few more sales, but at the cost of selling out the brand. You don't want people to feel intimidated by their machines, to feel that they have to find a Designated Expert every time something out of the ordinary happens.
It's the OS and the iApps and .Mac and iLife 04 and Keynote and Final Cut Express that makes being a Mac user cool. Yes, the hardware rocks, but if it's been "getting in the way" in its current form, then you look to change that. I know Steve says "AIO", but I bet he's also said a lot of other things over the past 4-5 years he's kinda had to go back on. He doesn't know everything and he's not always 100% dead-on.
If people want choice, flexibility, a pizza box, a headless iMac, a reborn Cube (done right this time), etc. then think about giving it to them.
I don't really care what Steve says about it. The iMac is an AIO. This is a design philosophy that I trace back all the way to the original Macintosh, and one that was remarkably successful even when the "real computer" snobs (most of whom used DOS machines, rather than real computers
I think that the people calling for a "flexible" machine are among the gatekeepers, for the most part. The "choice" platform ignores the easiest choice to set up, the most compact choice, and the cheapest choice to manufacture (considering the system, of course, and since people still buy whole systems all at once, statistically, that's what matters).
They can't make a decision and the people they trust to tell them stuff don't seem overly fond of Apple. Meanwhile Apple has a bitchin' and sexy computer that even many Mac users aren't too nuts about anymore (for a variety of reasons).
Apple doesn't really pursue things. Potential customers don't know. PC-based Spec Whores with a grudge against Apple certainly don't help because their less-informed buddies and co-workers see them as the ones "in the know".
Personally, I dig the all-in-one. It's all I've owned in the past 4-plus years (iMac DV and iMac G4. I'm not impressed by towers and shit, but I figure, at some point, it ain't about me.
It SHOULD be (but that's a whole other thread...
But seriously, so what's the approach? Do we wait and see if Apple makes some inroads into business/corporate environments?
Or is this just simply how it is? Great software, a stellar OS and the sexiest hardware that's ever existed. But because of gatekeepers and know-nothings and Spec Whores and MHz myths and Apple's ultra-laidback approach to promoting itself, only a select, devoted and adventuresome 3-4% of us get to experience it?
Hey, I just want more sold. I want more people using them (certainly makes MY life easier, since I'll actually be able to help Mac-using friends and family when they run into problems or have questions). AIOs? Fine. Mini-towers? Fine too. A reborn Cube? Okay, whatever. I don't know. If you look in one direction and see things kinda laying there, you look to other areas.
But we're not sure about that either? I don't know.
In your true, honest opinion amorph...what could/should Apple be doing that they're not doing? I know in that other thread a while back you spoke of waiting and "in a few years". But do you still feel that?
Maybe I don't fully get this. Let me re-read your above post though again, really good.
That was certainly the cresting point, those 1999 times.
Everything changes though and time to move on. But what's keeping the current AIO from being the massive, popular hit the original iMac was?
Such interesting questions.
I think most people don't know what they want. They wait to be told by their co-worker or brother-in-law who "knows them computers and stuff".
And that's almost always a disaster, because you KNOW what gets recommended. And bought.
Originally posted by pscates
Interesting. So why can't they bridge that? I mean, you got gatekeepers on one side and raw newbies on the other. Neither seem that impressed or engaged. The newbies/consumers invariably are swayed by their gatekeeping co-workers and brother-in-law and so forth.
In your true, honest opinion amorph...what could/should Apple be doing that they're not doing? I know in that other thread a while back you spoke of waiting and "in a few years". But do you still feel that?
Maybe I don't fully get this. Let me re-read your above post though again, really good.
That's the question, really, and it's not an easy question. I'm not going to sit here and pretend that I know the answer to it, either. Apple got the attention of the press; they released a killer OS; they released one bit of killer hardware after another; they ran an ad campaign targeting the easiest switchers (people who, fairly or unfairly, are completely fed up with Windows) and got it out everywhere. And... *crickets chirp*
That's despite the fact that OS X and the G5 and the PowerBook have an unprecedented amount of gatekeeper cred.
So they're going indirectly. Look at how completely the iPod mini has flummoxed the tech press. They can't understand why you'd buy one, and by all accounts people just have to have them. People who ordinarily don't go ga-ga over gadgetry are demanding them. Apple can use this in two different ways: They can hope that the iPod mini establishes a strong enough link between Apple and the folks on the other side of the gate that they feel confident in going out and getting a Mac themselves, and failing that, they can keep releasing things that get Apple more press and more market penetration and more money so that they can afford to keep trying other ideas.
I say not to wait a few years, but not to expect results for a few years at worst. That's assuming that Apple fights hard the whole time. That's just because Apple is up against network effects, and network effects are incredibly stubborn and resilient. You can't really make linear progress against them. They hold until they collapse. Of course, you can't predict when that'll happen, really, but Apple has to be firing on all cylinders when it does. I say a few years so that people don't get their hopes up that this or that strategy will work. If it were that simple, Apple would have 10% market share now.
Sigh...
I keep hoping that the iPod and iTMS are a stronger, more forceful "Trojan horse" than they've appeared to be so far. The iPods are doing great, but I wonder if PC-owning iPod buyers are seriously looking beyond the iPod, to the degree that perhaps Apple - and many of us - had hoped?
Apple can't put EVERYTHING on the back of the iPod. At some point, they're going to have to raise a bit of a ruckus and call some attention to themselves if they're truly serious about that whole "5% down, 95% to go" business (and even if they're not...they SHOULD be!). Boneheads.
I do think Apple could do a whole lot worse than try to recreate the lifesaver iMacs. Those were a real high point.
Their achilles heel was retail; retailers hated ordering the five-packs. Maybe now that Apple's a retailer they'll think that whole thing through a little more carefully, and give it another shot. Because I really do think that being able to choose a color is important psychologically. It makes the product yours in a way that it isn't if it looks exactly like every other one.
Something to consider. The current iMac, stunning as it is, does not lend itself to coloration at all.
LBB: Good point about iBook sales. That's one reason why I think the iBook is almost there. It doesn't quite replace the iMac yet, but it's close. The huge trend upward in PowerBook sales can be explained, unfortunately, as the PowerBook being a suitable replacement for the PowerMac for a lot of users - or even an improvement, insofar as it's portable.
While publicly Apple has said that they don't make money on the music store, I personally don't see that going on for long. The long term goal is probally to make the music store a profit center along with the iPods. Apple should really be looking at the razor blade manufacture here, they are trying to make their profits in the wrong place. Its should all be in the blades (downloads).
Dave
Originally posted by pscates
Yeah, I totally see. I'm CONSTANTLY amazed (basically everytime I sit down at my PowerBook and launch iPhoto, iTunes or Sherlock) that 10% is just not a given.
Sigh...
I keep hoping that the iPod and iTMS are a stronger, more forceful "Trojan horse" than they've appeared to be so far. The iPods are doing great, but I wonder if PC-owning iPod buyers are seriously looking beyond the iPod, to the degree that perhaps Apple - and many of us - had hoped?
Apple can't put EVERYTHING on the back of the iPod. At some point, they're going to have to raise a bit of a ruckus and call some attention to themselves if they're truly serious about that whole "5% down, 95% to go" business (and even if they're not...they SHOULD be!). Boneheads.