Sorry guys, I have satellite, Apparently the satelite company doesn't care what coast I live on, becuase I get the east coast feed of several channels, inculding TechTV. It wasn't on. Sorry, I tried.
you will not see an iPhone announcement in paris (a gsm market).
<hr></blockquote>
niji, thanks for the excellent wrapup in operator technology !
I just wanted to add that (with the exception of
CDMA 2000 in Korea and soon the US), all 3G systems have been an expensive flop so far. So I don't see we will see W-CDMA in the near future (It even flopped in Japan where it's sold as FOMA by Docomo). Most GSM parts of the world will stay with GPRS and EDGE for the next 2-4 years...especially in Europe. Operators don't have money to build up 3G networks and overspent on licenses...and nobody seems to want 3G. Multimedia content is/ will be too expensive. And GPRS/EDGE on GSM (ideally) offers what people have at home with a 56k modem.
If all of you want to know more about the (upcoming) technology standards used in the handsets, check this site:
It now holds all the relevant smaller organizations (and also all the vendors):
- WAPForum (WAP2.0). The Japanese i-mode will also converge with WAP2.0 in the near future. There is not much difference today with WAP2.0 and i-mode anyway on the technical level)
- Wireless Village (proposed IM standard for phones)
- SyncML (where Apple is now listed as promotor -> SyncML)
Two things aren't mentioned / part of OMA (yet):
- Executable content : Java isn't mentioned explicitly, but J2ME looks like the clear winner. Japan and Europe phones are going for that for executable content ( I don't think BREW or the Microsoft Pockect PC 2002 stuff have a change here. Millions of Java phones already shipped in Japan...Sun couldn't be happier about that
- As for streaming, Apple had some announcements with Ericsson and Sun, but I don't see streaming take off to be honest because of the costs involved in the near future (that's just my opinion
PS: niji, I have to disagree about the potential introduction.
If I were Apple I would introduce a GSM/GPRS tri-band (900, 1800, 1900) phone today. Japan is too far ahead in terms of phone technology. With GSM, you will get all of Europe plus the US....but we shouldn't forget Apple could introduce something new (Airport..) and pack that in as well.
What if you got a 'normal' phone, but could 'load' it up with content every time you pass a WiFi point (videos, news...etc.) or load your phone up at home by syncing with the desktop.
I am really looking forward to Apple Expo Paris to get some news. If they repeat the same thing at the keynote with European operators and SonyEric people again....there is almost definitively something going on.
Goods and Services\tIC 038. US 100 101 104. G & S: Telecommunication services; cellular telephone communication; Communication by computer terminals, communication by telephone, facsimile transmission; providing of electronic mail (E-Mail); computer aided transmission of messages and images; communication between computer peripherals and devices; information about telecommunication.
IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: electrical and electronic equipment; computer hardware; computer firmware; computers; computer peripheral devices; handheld computers; telephones, mobile telephones, communication devices; telecommunications equipment and devices; wireless information devices; computer software programs; computer operating system programs; computer utility programs; computer application programs; computer software for the design, development, modeling, simulation, compiling, de-bugging, verification, construction and interfacing of electrical and electronic equipment, integrated circuits, cables and connectors all for use with computers, telecommunications equipment and devices, or computer peripheral devices; parts and fittings for all the aforesaid goods.
Mark Drawing Code\t(1) TYPED DRAWING
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Filed ITU\tFILED AS ITU
Owner\t(APPLICANT) Apple Computer, Inc. CORPORATION CALIFORNIA 1 Intinite Loop Cupertino CALIFORNIA 95014
Attorney of Record\tThomas R. La Perle
Section 44 Indicator\tSECT44
Priority Date\tMarch 9, 2001
Type of Mark\tTRADEMARK. SERVICE MARK
Register\tPRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator\tLIVE
(*************************)
now it's all starting to make sense, in a nonsensical sort of way... test
Hey Eupfhoria, thanks for trying. Awww I really wish i could find a pic of that phone I have looked everywhere. It will probably be on display again at the next CES. The thing about it though is it looks to nice to be a real product. Its so thin and expensive looking. But then again the clie's are pretty thin now and OLED screens will actually be thinner as well as better looking so maybe it will be possible b 2003...
I will send an email to Techtv and see if they can tell me where I can find info about the prototype.
I just thought that I would point this out...I guess this is making pretty big ripples:
Fox News Network (on their bottom of the screen text scrolling thing) pointed out that Apple may be making a handheld device with "Palm-like" capabilities with xxxx (brand name, I think they said SonyEricson, but I didn't quite nail it...)...and somewhere in that rewording that I made, they pointed out its "phone" qualities.
I just think that that was worth pointing out. Maybe someone who was watching the text more closely could point out the small parts I missed.
recall that they bought these usb-enabled bondi-blue phones hand over fist, but no one ever knew WHY. i'm not saying apple's gonna re-brand them, but maybe they wantde to crack open several thousand, see how they tick, and come up with a new and improved phone of their own (and yes, they registered <a href="http://www.iphone.org"; target="_blank">www.iphone.org</a> shortly after this purchase, which is why i was so curious...)
Goods and Services\tIC 038. US 100 101 104. G & S: Telecommunication services; cellular telephone communication; Communication by computer terminals, communication by telephone, facsimile transmission; providing of electronic mail (E-Mail); computer aided transmission of messages and images; communication between computer peripherals and devices; information about telecommunication.
(...)
[ 08-19-2002: Message edited by: rok ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Ok, based on this thread here is my guess what Gigawire will be:
GIGAWIRE = VoIP from Apple
Your iPhone lets you talk at the normal fixed line rate at home and/or in the office. How ? Using your Airport Base station....you leave home and it's a wireless phone.
I can't read through all the old threads, but I think most people seemed to think that Gigawire is related to Firewire.
<strong>I am curious, though about introduction dates: they have ben ranging from September through next July...</strong><hr></blockquote>
I hope Apple introduces an iPhone soon. I've been wanting to get a mobile phone again after cancelling my contract with AT&T a year ago. A new phone would have to replace my Palm and synch with my Mac as well. Realistically, it probably makes sense for Apple to wait until next year. US carriers are just starting to roll out their new high speed wireless networks and won't be done for quite a while. My guess is that we will see this mystical device in Spring 2003.
<strong>Ok, based on this thread here is my guess what Gigawire will be:
GIGAWIRE = VoIP from Apple
Your iPhone lets you talk at the normal fixed line rate at home and/or in the office. How ? Using your Airport Base station....you leave home and it's a wireless phone.
I can't read through all the old threads, but I think most people seemed to think that Gigawire is related to Firewire.
I hope noone beat me to it with this prediction </strong><hr></blockquote>
Hm, I do believe you're the first one to suggest VoIP for Gigawire. However, the Airport can't automagically convert POTS* to VoIP. Apple would need a box, large or small, to do that and Cisco isn't making them cheap (but they're for enterprise -- hundreds of users).
Still, if Gigawire were some extention of your wireless service. Hm...
I am most likely wrong (unlike the stuff posted earlier in this thred I got from sources) This is spure speculation on my part and Gigawire is probably just FireWire2 or something else unrelated to any new iDevice.
I just looked at current cell phones and brainstormed where Apple could do something completely new and unexpected by taking the music analogy I mentioned before...
Sony and others = Conventional portable music paradigm (lasting for 20 years) = Walkman/Discman
Apple = New paradigm in portable music (disruptive technology) =iPod
So why would Apple be able to repeat this and beat big companies like SonyEric or Nokia at their own game ?
Most importantly, Apple wouldn't get their hands dirty in the low-end phone market. This will be the high-end of the phone market (like SonyEric P800 and T68i/T300, Nokia 7650, Panasonic GD 87 or the Nokia 9210i before those...).
Who would have believed 5 years ago Apple can create a portable music player powerful enough to rattle the indiputed leader in portable music technology Sony and the Walkman and Discman brands ? Apple is on their way to achieve that in 2003 with the iPod if prices keep falling and marketing is targeting PC users well this and next Christmas season...
So I came up with the following when applying the same disruptive concept to mobile phones/ smartphones:
- Storage: tiny HD (better than the current MemorySticks in Japanese phones). This will be the first phone to be able to store enough content (eg. for storing pictures shot with the built-in camera).
- Better built-in camera than any other phone out there.
- J2ME application support.
- GPS support (of course with iApps on the phone and your desktop to make use of this technology, eg. Sherlock, iChat buddy list )
- Airport/WiFi support. Don't know if that is feasible given the sizes, but there are WiFi PMCIA cards out there , so it must be possible in theory...
- iPhone supports VoIP when you are at home, thus works with your Mac/Airport base station. You could have one phone and it would be much cheaper to use at home or whereever you have a broadband connection...
Think of VoIP and and Mail.app on steroids to go with it....It lists the missed calls as well as incoming mails and is a digital answering machine as well. Phone call or incoming e-mail, you don't care anymore, everything is in your mail box. Look at this product which does something similar for PC LANs (VoIP and everything is stored in MS Outlook):
Especially the last one is pure speculation on my part
If anybody with more knowledge of VoIP HW costs (for single users) could clue me in how much a Airport base station capable of VoIP would cost for an individual and a VoIP capable iPhone, thanks for any clues...
PS: But would it be hard for the iPhone part if you could browse data anyway over Airport in WiFi networks ...?
As another poster pointed out, Apple could also see offer a complete platform for other device manufacturers...but what is the incentive for other manufacturers to go with Apple and their tiny market share ? MS can do this (and they do with the Pocket PC 2002 Mobile Edition !) but not Apple.
But unlike the iPod, Apple will be able to generate new (recurring !) revenue streams here beyond one-time HW sales.
Until recently, I always thought the next iDevice is going to be an Apple home server, but the more I think about an iPhone, the more exciting this option becomes...
We'll be looking at the possibilities for Apple's next Digital Lifestyle device, doing a number of reviews, and talking a lot of software jive in the week ahead, so keep your bookmarks pointed right here - and as always, we love to get email from our readers (we've been tworking to respond to a lot more of our hundreds of daily emails).
I wonder how much they will copy from this thread and other boards <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
$39 (IIRC) for UNLIMITED CALLS IN/OUT to anywhere in the US. Free voice mail, call waiting, caller id and a bunch of other stuff. Oh and I think the cisco router is like $99 (or maybe free with a 1 year contract).
I think the "iPhone" will be introduced in January.
As pointed out in the NYT article, the tough thing is that the service is what people pay for -not the phone.
Although I would love to ditch my Nokia in favor of a device as easy to use (cool) as my iPod I'm not gonna want to pay more for the monthy fee.
If they could swing a deal with Cingular which would not cost me more per month than I'm paying now -sure, I'd pay $300 - $400 for a phone with iCal and Inkwell.
Comments
<strong><a href="http://www.iphone.org"; target="_blank">www.iphone.org</a>
Must be there for some reason.</strong><hr></blockquote>
is this registered to apple or just a domain running a copy of the apple website?
...but wow that is crazy apple would buy this domain for no reason
[ 08-19-2002: Message edited by: ast3r3x ]</p>
[QB]summary of the competing world fon standards:
(...)
you will not see an iPhone announcement in paris (a gsm market).
<hr></blockquote>
niji, thanks for the excellent wrapup in operator technology !
I just wanted to add that (with the exception of
CDMA 2000 in Korea and soon the US), all 3G systems have been an expensive flop so far. So I don't see we will see W-CDMA in the near future (It even flopped in Japan where it's sold as FOMA by Docomo). Most GSM parts of the world will stay with GPRS and EDGE for the next 2-4 years...especially in Europe. Operators don't have money to build up 3G networks and overspent on licenses...and nobody seems to want 3G. Multimedia content is/ will be too expensive. And GPRS/EDGE on GSM (ideally) offers what people have at home with a 56k modem.
If all of you want to know more about the (upcoming) technology standards used in the handsets, check this site:
<a href="http://www.openmobilealliance.org/"; target="_blank">http://www.openmobilealliance.org/</a>;
It now holds all the relevant smaller organizations (and also all the vendors):
- WAPForum (WAP2.0). The Japanese i-mode will also converge with WAP2.0 in the near future. There is not much difference today with WAP2.0 and i-mode anyway on the technical level)
- Wireless Village (proposed IM standard for phones)
- SyncML (where Apple is now listed as promotor -> SyncML)
Two things aren't mentioned / part of OMA (yet):
- Executable content : Java isn't mentioned explicitly, but J2ME looks like the clear winner. Japan and Europe phones are going for that for executable content ( I don't think BREW or the Microsoft Pockect PC 2002 stuff have a change here. Millions of Java phones already shipped in Japan...Sun couldn't be happier about that
- As for streaming, Apple had some announcements with Ericsson and Sun, but I don't see streaming take off to be honest because of the costs involved in the near future (that's just my opinion
But if streaming takes off, it will use MPEG-4. This heavily backed start-up company is the leader there: <a href="http://www.packetvideo.com"; target="_blank">http://www.packetvideo.com</a>;
PS: niji, I have to disagree about the potential introduction.
If I were Apple I would introduce a GSM/GPRS tri-band (900, 1800, 1900) phone today. Japan is too far ahead in terms of phone technology. With GSM, you will get all of Europe plus the US....but we shouldn't forget Apple could introduce something new (Airport..) and pack that in as well.
What if you got a 'normal' phone, but could 'load' it up with content every time you pass a WiFi point (videos, news...etc.) or load your phone up at home by syncing with the desktop.
<strong>Didn't Steve have the Cingular Wireless CEO on stage at Macworld?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes, part of the quotes (also from SonyEric) are still on this site...
<a href="http://www.apple.com/isync/"; target="_blank">http://www.apple.com/isync/</a>;
I am really looking forward to Apple Expo Paris to get some news. If they repeat the same thing at the keynote with European operators and SonyEric people again....there is almost definitively something going on.
<a href="http://www.neteconomie.com/perl/navig.pl/neteconomie/guides/photos/fiche/20010407000655"; target="_blank">http://www.neteconomie.com/perl/navig.pl/neteconomie/guides/photos/fiche/20010407000655</a>;
Of course, it's a fake. I mean, would Apple produce anything that looks like THAT? And where are the keys?
<strong>re: <a href="http://www.iphone.org"; target="_blank">www.iphone.org</a>
is this registered to apple or just a domain running a copy of the apple website?
...but wow that is crazy apple would buy this domain for no reason
[ 08-19-2002: Message edited by: ast3r3x ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
gosh, then apple must be planning something big with <a href="http://www.mammals.org/"; target="_blank">THIS!</a>
[insert maniacal laughter here...]
Hope springs eternal,
Mandricard
AppleOutsider
Typed Drawing
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Word Mark\tGIGAWIRE
Goods and Services\tIC 038. US 100 101 104. G & S: Telecommunication services; cellular telephone communication; Communication by computer terminals, communication by telephone, facsimile transmission; providing of electronic mail (E-Mail); computer aided transmission of messages and images; communication between computer peripherals and devices; information about telecommunication.
IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: electrical and electronic equipment; computer hardware; computer firmware; computers; computer peripheral devices; handheld computers; telephones, mobile telephones, communication devices; telecommunications equipment and devices; wireless information devices; computer software programs; computer operating system programs; computer utility programs; computer application programs; computer software for the design, development, modeling, simulation, compiling, de-bugging, verification, construction and interfacing of electrical and electronic equipment, integrated circuits, cables and connectors all for use with computers, telecommunications equipment and devices, or computer peripheral devices; parts and fittings for all the aforesaid goods.
Mark Drawing Code\t(1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial Number\t78082678
Filing Date\tSeptember 5, 2001
Filed ITU\tFILED AS ITU
Owner\t(APPLICANT) Apple Computer, Inc. CORPORATION CALIFORNIA 1 Intinite Loop Cupertino CALIFORNIA 95014
Attorney of Record\tThomas R. La Perle
Section 44 Indicator\tSECT44
Priority Date\tMarch 9, 2001
Type of Mark\tTRADEMARK. SERVICE MARK
Register\tPRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator\tLIVE
(*************************)
now it's all starting to make sense, in a nonsensical sort of way...
[ 08-19-2002: Message edited by: rok ]</p>
I will send an email to Techtv and see if they can tell me where I can find info about the prototype.
Thanks again Eupfhoria!
Fox News Network (on their bottom of the screen text scrolling thing) pointed out that Apple may be making a handheld device with "Palm-like" capabilities with xxxx (brand name, I think they said SonyEricson, but I didn't quite nail it...)...and somewhere in that rewording that I made, they pointed out its "phone" qualities.
I just think that that was worth pointing out. Maybe someone who was watching the text more closely could point out the small parts I missed.
<a href="http://advergence.com/newspage/1999/19990624_mcpiper.shtml"; target="_blank">Why would Apple buy 30,000 McPipers???</a>
recall that they bought these usb-enabled bondi-blue phones hand over fist, but no one ever knew WHY. i'm not saying apple's gonna re-brand them, but maybe they wantde to crack open several thousand, see how they tick, and come up with a new and improved phone of their own (and yes, they registered <a href="http://www.iphone.org"; target="_blank">www.iphone.org</a> shortly after this purchase, which is why i was so curious...)
even at the time it made no sense.
why buy THIRTY THOUSAND of them???? weird
anyway, about 29,900 must either being taking up space in some warehouse or landfil (maybe atop all the ancient Apple I's
<strong>
Typed Drawing
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Word Mark\tGIGAWIRE
Goods and Services\tIC 038. US 100 101 104. G & S: Telecommunication services; cellular telephone communication; Communication by computer terminals, communication by telephone, facsimile transmission; providing of electronic mail (E-Mail); computer aided transmission of messages and images; communication between computer peripherals and devices; information about telecommunication.
(...)
[ 08-19-2002: Message edited by: rok ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Ok, based on this thread here is my guess what Gigawire will be:
GIGAWIRE = VoIP from Apple
Your iPhone lets you talk at the normal fixed line rate at home and/or in the office. How ? Using your Airport Base station....you leave home and it's a wireless phone.
I can't read through all the old threads, but I think most people seemed to think that Gigawire is related to Firewire.
I hope noone beat me to it with this prediction
<strong>I am curious, though about introduction dates: they have ben ranging from September through next July...</strong><hr></blockquote>
I hope Apple introduces an iPhone soon. I've been wanting to get a mobile phone again after cancelling my contract with AT&T a year ago. A new phone would have to replace my Palm and synch with my Mac as well. Realistically, it probably makes sense for Apple to wait until next year. US carriers are just starting to roll out their new high speed wireless networks and won't be done for quite a while. My guess is that we will see this mystical device in Spring 2003.
Escher
<strong>Ok, based on this thread here is my guess what Gigawire will be:
GIGAWIRE = VoIP from Apple
Your iPhone lets you talk at the normal fixed line rate at home and/or in the office. How ? Using your Airport Base station....you leave home and it's a wireless phone.
I can't read through all the old threads, but I think most people seemed to think that Gigawire is related to Firewire.
I hope noone beat me to it with this prediction
Hm, I do believe you're the first one to suggest VoIP for Gigawire. However, the Airport can't automagically convert POTS* to VoIP. Apple would need a box, large or small, to do that and Cisco isn't making them cheap (but they're for enterprise -- hundreds of users).
Still, if Gigawire were some extention of your wireless service. Hm...
Screed
*Plain Old Telephone Service
[ 08-19-2002: Message edited by: sCreeD ]</p>
<strong>
Hm, I do believe you're the first one to suggest VoIP for Gigawire. However, the Airport can't automagically convert POTS* to VoIP.
(....)
[ 08-19-2002: Message edited by: sCreeD ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
I am most likely wrong
I just looked at current cell phones and brainstormed where Apple could do something completely new and unexpected by taking the music analogy I mentioned before...
Sony and others = Conventional portable music paradigm (lasting for 20 years) = Walkman/Discman
Apple = New paradigm in portable music (disruptive technology) =iPod
So why would Apple be able to repeat this and beat big companies like SonyEric or Nokia at their own game ?
Most importantly, Apple wouldn't get their hands dirty in the low-end phone market. This will be the high-end of the phone market (like SonyEric P800 and T68i/T300, Nokia 7650, Panasonic GD 87 or the Nokia 9210i before those...).
Who would have believed 5 years ago Apple can create a portable music player powerful enough to rattle the indiputed leader in portable music technology Sony and the Walkman and Discman brands ? Apple is on their way to achieve that in 2003 with the iPod if prices keep falling and marketing is targeting PC users well this and next Christmas season...
So I came up with the following when applying the same disruptive concept to mobile phones/ smartphones:
- Storage: tiny HD (better than the current MemorySticks in Japanese phones). This will be the first phone to be able to store enough content (eg. for storing pictures shot with the built-in camera).
- Better built-in camera than any other phone out there.
- J2ME application support.
- GPS support (of course with iApps on the phone and your desktop to make use of this technology, eg. Sherlock, iChat buddy list )
- Airport/WiFi support. Don't know if that is feasible given the sizes, but there are WiFi PMCIA cards out there , so it must be possible in theory...
- iPhone supports VoIP when you are at home, thus works with your Mac/Airport base station. You could have one phone and it would be much cheaper to use at home or whereever you have a broadband connection...
Think of VoIP and and Mail.app on steroids to go with it....It lists the missed calls as well as incoming mails and is a digital answering machine as well. Phone call or incoming e-mail, you don't care anymore, everything is in your mail box. Look at this product which does something similar for PC LANs (VoIP and everything is stored in MS Outlook):
<a href="http://www.media-streams.com/pdf_e/DatasheetOutlook.pdf"; target="_blank">http://www.media-streams.com/pdf_e/DatasheetOutlook.pdf</a>;
Especially the last one is pure speculation on my part
If anybody with more knowledge of VoIP HW costs (for single users) could clue me in how much a Airport base station capable of VoIP would cost for an individual and a VoIP capable iPhone, thanks for any clues...
PS: But would it be hard for the iPhone part if you could browse data anyway over Airport in WiFi networks ...?
As another poster pointed out, Apple could also see offer a complete platform for other device manufacturers...but what is the incentive for other manufacturers to go with Apple and their tiny market share ? MS can do this (and they do with the Pocket PC 2002 Mobile Edition !) but not Apple.
But unlike the iPod, Apple will be able to generate new (recurring !) revenue streams here beyond one-time HW sales.
Until recently, I always thought the next iDevice is going to be an Apple home server, but the more I think about an iPhone, the more exciting this option becomes...
[ 08-19-2002: Message edited by: jabba ]</p>
We'll be looking at the possibilities for Apple's next Digital Lifestyle device, doing a number of reviews, and talking a lot of software jive in the week ahead, so keep your bookmarks pointed right here - and as always, we love to get email from our readers (we've been tworking to respond to a lot more of our hundreds of daily emails).
I wonder how much they will copy from this thread and other boards <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
[ 08-19-2002: Message edited by: jabba ]</p>
VoIP is cool stuff and with the cisco box its really cool... oh and with Vonage it works no matter who you call!
Check out : <a href="http://www.vonage.com/"; target="_blank">http://www.vonage.com/</a>;
$39 (IIRC) for UNLIMITED CALLS IN/OUT to anywhere in the US. Free voice mail, call waiting, caller id and a bunch of other stuff. Oh and I think the cisco router is like $99 (or maybe free with a 1 year contract).
Dave
[ 08-19-2002: Message edited by: DaveGee ]</p>
[QB]Jabba,
VoIP is cool stuff and with the cisco box its really cool... oh and with Vonage it works no matter who you call!
<hr></blockquote>
Dave, thanks a lot. Great find. It's even cheaper than I thought, they give the adapter away at the moment, so it can't be that expensive.
The only two small (obvious because of the technology used) setbacks seem to be:
- You have to have an existing high-speed Internet connection (and pay extra for that)
- You need a router if you still want to use your computer.
What if the next Airport base station included such a phone adapter as an option ?
It would work with your land-line phones *and* your iPhone....hmmm.
As pointed out in the NYT article, the tough thing is that the service is what people pay for -not the phone.
Although I would love to ditch my Nokia in favor of a device as easy to use (cool) as my iPod I'm not gonna want to pay more for the monthy fee.
If they could swing a deal with Cingular which would not cost me more per month than I'm paying now -sure, I'd pay $300 - $400 for a phone with iCal and Inkwell.