Believe in god or go to hell, have nothing to do in modern religion. If god exist, he will never sentance someone to a perpetual pain. That's illogical. In fact only a supreme evil being should do that.
Jesus is all forgiveness, he sacrifies himself to save others. That's not to sent people in hell if they don't believe in him, especially if they follow his message.
This assertion, has been made by the catholic church, who wanted to control minds at the time. Religion, especially in the hands of clerics, was more an instrument of power, than a mystic quest (dispite many exceptions).
The punishment has only one goal : educate people, otherway it's retaliation : when someone die, his education is over : punishment is worthless.
Now if we consider that the death is the continuation of what we where during life, a sort of eternal perpetuation, then we should consider that if someone did not have the faith, in his perpetual state, he has no chance to met god (it was before, that he should have met him). You can consider the faith as a gate that lead to god. You can only pass this door while alive, because when you are dead, you only perpetuate what you where alive.
If we go this way, we will so also that it's not black and white. It's not sufficiant to be 51% good to go to heaven. The people who is 51 % good will go to a place good at 51 %, but not at 100 % like heaven.
Note that this theory has some backwards. If we consider that life is perpetuation of what we where, people would have suffering during their life, because of bad luck will continue to suffer.
That's not justice either. Contiuation of what we where, is just good for lucky people.
Believe in god to enlight your days, not for preparing your afterlife. When your conduct yourself a bad way : you are bad for something bigger than you : the human specie, and more generally life.
Perhaps god is life. Perhaps we are only cells of a giant body, made by all the life of the universe who interact together. When a cell act wrongly, she hurt the whole system : she is wrong in that way.
There is no life without death. Life is ever changing, eternity is immobilism. Death is the contrary of eternity. By making live stop, death allow, species to evolve. Without death there will be no humans, no intelligents species.
This is perhaps the biggest paradox, but perhaps there is no paradox. Because death only apply to living beings, you can kill something who do not exist.
'God' does not exist . . .but G-d exists: The Other is always beyond you and your thoughts and yet it is integral to what you are . .. we are defined by what we are not. . .
Other people are other to you and yet they are also you
and as Neitszche said:
"Love of the Neighbor is Fear of the Neighbor'
Compulsion to love is not love
Strive to love your fate . . . all things are related to what is the eternal instance and if you can say 'yes' to being . .. then you love that which is beyond comprehension: G-d
Prophetic ideas are inherently in contradiction to the idea of free-will: [EDIT: oops] you are either not-free and your actions will take part in some culminating prophesized event, or, you are free and the prophesized event does not need to happen.
also: just remember the title of one of Nietszche's books:
"Beyond Good And Evil"
and as the Dalai Lama said:
'Evil' is not something mysterious and extra-human . . it is human anger in all of its manefestations . . .
pfflam I just don't buy this notion. I have gained so much wisdom and experience from "Loving my Neighbors" and it had nothing to do with fear it had to do with giving and receiving.
Compuslion to love is love.
Neitszche must not understand love from what I can gather from these statements above.
Neitszche must not understand love from what I can gather from these statements above.
I don't believe that 'compulsion' here is intended to be an internal one, but an external coercion.
It's the difference between seeing someone on the street, feeling sympathy for them, and giving them $10, versus them holding a gun to your head and robbing you.
Love given *under external compulsion* is not love, it is fear.
"Love me or else" is the battle cry of the abusive spouse, parent, and in some religious viewpoints, deities. My opinion is that the love given in each case is not love, but survival.
If on the other hand, the compulsion to love is *internal*, then it is a product of free-will and can be quite genuine.
Compulsion to love means loving at the point of a gun
a shotgun wedding
You can't be forced to love someone that you don't love
Meditation on humanity and understanding, these will help us to see the other in ourselves . . . but enforced love results in repressed hatred . . that wears a false smile
Nietszche's ideas are very 'out there' . . .his ethics are not always worth taking to heart . . . but I learned alot from my years of studying him
He says many things that are deliberately antagonistic to what he saw as a corrupt morality of life-hatred masquerading as 'love' . . . I don't think that he is right in all cases but his insights can shed light on some phenomena . .
Comments
Jesus is all forgiveness, he sacrifies himself to save others. That's not to sent people in hell if they don't believe in him, especially if they follow his message.
This assertion, has been made by the catholic church, who wanted to control minds at the time. Religion, especially in the hands of clerics, was more an instrument of power, than a mystic quest (dispite many exceptions).
The punishment has only one goal : educate people, otherway it's retaliation : when someone die, his education is over : punishment is worthless.
Now if we consider that the death is the continuation of what we where during life, a sort of eternal perpetuation, then we should consider that if someone did not have the faith, in his perpetual state, he has no chance to met god (it was before, that he should have met him). You can consider the faith as a gate that lead to god. You can only pass this door while alive, because when you are dead, you only perpetuate what you where alive.
If we go this way, we will so also that it's not black and white. It's not sufficiant to be 51% good to go to heaven. The people who is 51 % good will go to a place good at 51 %, but not at 100 % like heaven.
Note that this theory has some backwards. If we consider that life is perpetuation of what we where, people would have suffering during their life, because of bad luck will continue to suffer.
That's not justice either. Contiuation of what we where, is just good for lucky people.
Believe in god to enlight your days, not for preparing your afterlife. When your conduct yourself a bad way : you are bad for something bigger than you : the human specie, and more generally life.
Perhaps god is life. Perhaps we are only cells of a giant body, made by all the life of the universe who interact together. When a cell act wrongly, she hurt the whole system : she is wrong in that way.
There is no life without death. Life is ever changing, eternity is immobilism. Death is the contrary of eternity. By making live stop, death allow, species to evolve. Without death there will be no humans, no intelligents species.
This is perhaps the biggest paradox, but perhaps there is no paradox. Because death only apply to living beings, you can kill something who do not exist.
I'd applaud, but I'm too slackjawed.
Nice.
Originally posted by BR
For the last time man I don't want to go to Oregon with you to get married.
Whoops, wrong thread.
LOL
fellows
'God' does not exist . . .but G-d exists: The Other is always beyond you and your thoughts and yet it is integral to what you are . .. we are defined by what we are not. . .
Other people are other to you and yet they are also you
and as Neitszche said:
"Love of the Neighbor is Fear of the Neighbor'
Compulsion to love is not love
Strive to love your fate . . . all things are related to what is the eternal instance and if you can say 'yes' to being . .. then you love that which is beyond comprehension: G-d
Prophetic ideas are inherently in contradiction to the idea of free-will: [EDIT: oops] you are either not-free and your actions will take part in some culminating prophesized event, or, you are free and the prophesized event does not need to happen.
also: just remember the title of one of Nietszche's books:
"Beyond Good And Evil"
and as the Dalai Lama said:
'Evil' is not something mysterious and extra-human . . it is human anger in all of its manefestations . . .
Originally posted by pfflam
Remember: List of stuff
and as Neitszche said:
"Love of the Neighbor is Fear of the Neighbor'
Compulsion to love is not love
pfflam I just don't buy this notion. I have gained so much wisdom and experience from "Loving my Neighbors" and it had nothing to do with fear it had to do with giving and receiving.
Compuslion to love is love.
Neitszche must not understand love from what I can gather from these statements above.
fellows
Originally posted by Fellowship
Compuslion to love is love.
Neitszche must not understand love from what I can gather from these statements above.
I don't believe that 'compulsion' here is intended to be an internal one, but an external coercion.
It's the difference between seeing someone on the street, feeling sympathy for them, and giving them $10, versus them holding a gun to your head and robbing you.
Love given *under external compulsion* is not love, it is fear.
"Love me or else" is the battle cry of the abusive spouse, parent, and in some religious viewpoints, deities. My opinion is that the love given in each case is not love, but survival.
If on the other hand, the compulsion to love is *internal*, then it is a product of free-will and can be quite genuine.
Originally posted by Fellowship
Compuslion to love is love.
Compulsion to love means loving at the point of a gun
a shotgun wedding
You can't be forced to love someone that you don't love
Meditation on humanity and understanding, these will help us to see the other in ourselves . . . but enforced love results in repressed hatred . . that wears a false smile
Nietszche's ideas are very 'out there' . . .his ethics are not always worth taking to heart . . . but I learned alot from my years of studying him
He says many things that are deliberately antagonistic to what he saw as a corrupt morality of life-hatred masquerading as 'love' . . . I don't think that he is right in all cases but his insights can shed light on some phenomena . .
I did not know Compulsion (Dictionary link) was refering to "gun point" love. This is why I misunderstood the meaning of the quote.
fellows
Also, what would a Nietszche cookbook look like? I can't decide on what wouldn't exist---the ingredients or the stove?
Originally posted by dmz
Yes, but if we are the children of God, we might need need a paddling.
That only makes sense if you believe in reincarnation.
"Okay, learned your lesson? Good, now go try it again."
and
Would the Nietszche cookbook deny the existence of Jacques Pepin and Julia Child?
Originally posted by BR
For the last time man I don't want to go to Oregon with you to get married.
Whoops, wrong thread.
BR, I really do love it when you are in a good mood.