In my shelf I have a book that lists all traffic accidents that led to death of at least one person in 2001-2003 in Finland. The book has short summaries of all the crash examination reports and especially the reasons for the crash. It seems the chances for death in Finnish traffic are minuscule unless you're elderly, tired, drunk, driving a motorcycle, or have the misfortune of one of the above colliding with you. "Plain" speeders were pretty much absent from the list, as were the stereotypical young speeders.
There is no road racing culture here to speak of, nor many performance cars (cars are taxed at about 100%). In three years of driving I've never witnessed any "road rage" incidents either. Somebody screws up, somebody else honks their horn, that's it. Of course we have our share of bad drivers. I find the worst ones are firstly old people, secondly middle-aged businessmen who are on the phone while driving in the city centre.
In my experience, the worst drivers have that lethal combination of overconfidence, aggressive habits and ignorance. Every time there's a hard rain or snow there's a rash of accidents caused by people who think they can sling their trucks around corners as if it were dry.
The other major source of in-town accidents, at least here, is the strip with a speed limit of 35. A lot of people seem to think that it's a highway with a speed limit of 45 or 50, and so they don't even look for the guy stopped to make a left turn, and *SLAM*.
Tailgaters are a particular case, but there's also the more general case of people who ride up on you when traffic slows down. Apparently word needs to get out that that's what keeps traffic jams going long after whatever caused them has cleared up. You leave two car lengths between you and the guy in front of you, period. Also, people who run right up to a 2->1 lane merge and then try to cut in are even more guilty of generally slowing traffic to a standstill. The number of people who don't realize - or don't care - that selfish driving results in ugly and unsafe traffic is staggering.
I'm all for not allowing anyone a license until they're 25. Or even 30.
Hey, hey, hey... One of the biggest reasons young adults get in so many accidents is because of their lack of experience. If you delay licenses until they are 25, than 25 year-olds will be the worst drivers on the road. Possibly more dangerous since it is harder to learn when you are older.
I hate to say it, but I'd rather have a road full of a$$holes that think they're Bob Bundurant than deal with people who are drinking coffee, eating breakfast, dialing the phone, reading the paper, putting on mascara, watching a DVD, disciplining their little darlings....
Mr Speedy might be an a$$hole, but at least he's paying some attention.
The other day I was riding with this guy. As he came upon a red light, he just blew right thru it. I asked him he saw the light thinking he had just not seen it. He said "Yea, I saw it. But that's alright, my brother does it all the time." As we continue on, we approach another red light. Again, he just plows right on thru with out slowing down. I look at him and he says "It's alright, my brother does it all the time." A few blocks later we approach a green light. Next thing I know he slams on the brakes. After prying my face of the dash, I ask him why he stopped, afterall the light was green. He says, "Had to. My brother might be coming the other way."
Hey, hey, hey... One of the biggest reasons young adults get in so many accidents is because of their lack of experience. If you delay licenses until they are 25, than 25 year-olds will be the worst drivers on the road. Possibly more dangerous since it is harder to learn when you are older.
I disagree, and I've been driving more than half my life now. I don't have any data to back me up, but here's my grumpy-old-man-complaining-about-the-kids-these-days response:
Yes. Kids have less experience. They have less LIFE experience. Many kids, even with their limited experience driving, simply drive too fast and too aggressively, with little or no concern for the simple fact that they're hurtling down the road at a high speed in a two-ton chunk of glass and steel.
Don't get me wrong, here. There are bad drivers everywhere, and many of the people who exhibit these problems I've marked out are not kids and ought to bloody well know better. And I've lived amongst what I thought were the worst drivers on earth (Mississippi and Oklahoma). I cut my teeth on traffic-driving in New Orleans, where at certain times of the day you'd better be doing 80 when you come off the ramp or you ain't getting on the highway.
But when I moved to Utah, I revised all of that. This traffic is worse than NO; it's worse than Dallas; it's worse than Denver. Why? Because a) there are lots and lots and lots of kids on the road (UT's birth rate is equal-to or greater-than that of India) and b) these kids drive really, really aggressively.
Get'em off the road, I say!
Aside: I was talking to one of my classes a while back about the bad drivers here (they all agree) and I told them that in my ideal world, when I'm on the road, no cars would be allowed within a 20-mile perimeter of me.
In the USA, Atlanta drivers are amongst the worst anywhere....they make California drivers seem like the essence of politeness and consideration. But even Atlanta drivers can't compare with some of the maniacs in Paris, Milan, London and numerous other European cities
Hey, hey, hey... One of the biggest reasons young adults get in so many accidents is because of their lack of experience. If you delay licenses until they are 25, than 25 year-olds will be the worst drivers on the road. Possibly more dangerous since it is harder to learn when you are older.
I've been an adherent to midwinter's policy for a number of years except I think we should hold off until people are 35 before we let 'em on the roads. Initially, I was of the belief this restriction should apply to males only but given the aggressiveness of female drivers these days, I don't think it's unreasonable to include the girls.
What you're not allowing for Ebby is that by this age people have gotten over that whole "I'm invincible, I'm never going to die thing" that puts the rest of us at risk on a daily basis and ensures parents live in the complete horrors throughout their children's teenage years.
I've been an adherent to midwinter's policy for a number of years except I think we should hold off until people are 35 before we let 'em on the roads. Initially, I was of the belief this restriction should apply to males only but given the aggressiveness of female drivers these days, I don't think it's unreasonable to include the girls.
What you're not allowing for Ebby is that by this age people have gotten over that whole "I'm invincible, I'm never going to die thing" that puts the rest of us at risk on a daily basis and ensures parents live in the complete horrors throughout their children's teenage years.
Damn straight! And BTW, CrazyChester, every time I see your nickname, I get that song stuck in my head!
Comments
There is no road racing culture here to speak of, nor many performance cars (cars are taxed at about 100%). In three years of driving I've never witnessed any "road rage" incidents either. Somebody screws up, somebody else honks their horn, that's it. Of course we have our share of bad drivers. I find the worst ones are firstly old people, secondly middle-aged businessmen who are on the phone while driving in the city centre.
Originally posted by Splinemodel
Geez, it's like I'm dealing with a bunch of hall monitors here.
No. It's just some people are conscious of what a bloody dangerous weapon a car is.
While you, on the other hand, aren't.
Originally posted by Neø
was that dude banned?
-Neø
That dude is me a year ago.
The other major source of in-town accidents, at least here, is the strip with a speed limit of 35. A lot of people seem to think that it's a highway with a speed limit of 45 or 50, and so they don't even look for the guy stopped to make a left turn, and *SLAM*.
Tailgaters are a particular case, but there's also the more general case of people who ride up on you when traffic slows down. Apparently word needs to get out that that's what keeps traffic jams going long after whatever caused them has cleared up. You leave two car lengths between you and the guy in front of you, period. Also, people who run right up to a 2->1 lane merge and then try to cut in are even more guilty of generally slowing traffic to a standstill. The number of people who don't realize - or don't care - that selfish driving results in ugly and unsafe traffic is staggering.
I'm all for not allowing anyone a license until they're 25. Or even 30.
Originally posted by midwinter
Yup.
I'm all for not allowing anyone a license until they're 25. Or even 30.
Hey, hey, hey... One of the biggest reasons young adults get in so many accidents is because of their lack of experience. If you delay licenses until they are 25, than 25 year-olds will be the worst drivers on the road. Possibly more dangerous since it is harder to learn when you are older.
Mr Speedy might be an a$$hole, but at least he's paying some attention.
Originally posted by Ebby
Hey, hey, hey... One of the biggest reasons young adults get in so many accidents is because of their lack of experience. If you delay licenses until they are 25, than 25 year-olds will be the worst drivers on the road. Possibly more dangerous since it is harder to learn when you are older.
I disagree, and I've been driving more than half my life now. I don't have any data to back me up, but here's my grumpy-old-man-complaining-about-the-kids-these-days response:
Yes. Kids have less experience. They have less LIFE experience. Many kids, even with their limited experience driving, simply drive too fast and too aggressively, with little or no concern for the simple fact that they're hurtling down the road at a high speed in a two-ton chunk of glass and steel.
Don't get me wrong, here. There are bad drivers everywhere, and many of the people who exhibit these problems I've marked out are not kids and ought to bloody well know better. And I've lived amongst what I thought were the worst drivers on earth (Mississippi and Oklahoma). I cut my teeth on traffic-driving in New Orleans, where at certain times of the day you'd better be doing 80 when you come off the ramp or you ain't getting on the highway.
But when I moved to Utah, I revised all of that. This traffic is worse than NO; it's worse than Dallas; it's worse than Denver. Why? Because a) there are lots and lots and lots of kids on the road (UT's birth rate is equal-to or greater-than that of India) and b) these kids drive really, really aggressively.
Get'em off the road, I say!
Aside: I was talking to one of my classes a while back about the bad drivers here (they all agree) and I told them that in my ideal world, when I'm on the road, no cars would be allowed within a 20-mile perimeter of me.
Originally posted by Ebby
Hey, hey, hey... One of the biggest reasons young adults get in so many accidents is because of their lack of experience. If you delay licenses until they are 25, than 25 year-olds will be the worst drivers on the road. Possibly more dangerous since it is harder to learn when you are older.
I've been an adherent to midwinter's policy for a number of years except I think we should hold off until people are 35 before we let 'em on the roads. Initially, I was of the belief this restriction should apply to males only but given the aggressiveness of female drivers these days, I don't think it's unreasonable to include the girls.
What you're not allowing for Ebby is that by this age people have gotten over that whole "I'm invincible, I'm never going to die thing" that puts the rest of us at risk on a daily basis and ensures parents live in the complete horrors throughout their children's teenage years.
Originally posted by crazychester
I've been an adherent to midwinter's policy for a number of years except I think we should hold off until people are 35 before we let 'em on the roads. Initially, I was of the belief this restriction should apply to males only but given the aggressiveness of female drivers these days, I don't think it's unreasonable to include the girls.
What you're not allowing for Ebby is that by this age people have gotten over that whole "I'm invincible, I'm never going to die thing" that puts the rest of us at risk on a daily basis and ensures parents live in the complete horrors throughout their children's teenage years.
Damn straight! And BTW, CrazyChester, every time I see your nickname, I get that song stuck in my head!
Originally posted by midwinter
Damn straight! And BTW, CrazyChester, every time I see your nickname, I get that song stuck in my head!
Ah well, it could have been worse. I could have called myself January and then you'd have that song by Pilot stuck in your head.
"January...sick and tired you've been hanging on me...."
Originally posted by crazychester
Ah well, it could have been worse. I could have called myself January and then you'd have that song by Pilot stuck in your head.
"January...sick and tired you've been hanging on me...."
Well, I'd have to KNOW that song.