Extremely. *NO* vendor provides an open architecture laptop. They simply don't exist. Buy from Dell, IBM, Toshiba, or Apple, and you're going to get a closed system. And yet, somehow, the consumer has made this the fastest growing market in computers. Odd, no?
You want to hear some stories about that. I spoke to a guy that got $6000 back in 2003. I said "You know you should probably talk to a tax advisor so that you can setup your exemptions so that you are keeping your money during the year"
and he said "I like getting big returns" WTF???? Imagine if he had that $6000 in a 6 month CD. Wouldn't be a lot of interest but you would get that interest and not Uncle Sam.
DaveGee here's what I want to do. If I'm on a fixed income I want to grab the latest Publication 15 from irs.gov and find out what my total tax liability should be. Once I get that number I know that my taxes will not exceed that amount unless I get a Bonus, Commission or sell stock. Bonusus are taxed at the Supplemental rate of %25 anyways so I'm ok there.
Then I will exempt myself from Federal Income Tax and take a monthly amount that should be going to FIT and deposit to a CD or any investment that allows me to deposit for up to one year.
Come tax time the "Gubment" ask for their money I pay from the CD and any interest I've earned is mine.
Also I've seen people with monthly daycare expenses that didn't know that they could apply for a Flexible Spending Account. $600 a month in daycare expenses is not uncommon for multiple children. Getting that tax free saves you at least a $100 or more annually.
Plus you have Health Care Spending accounts for prescriptions and other things. Did you all know you can cover Lasik Eye surgery with a HCSA sometimes? Tax free baby!!
Last but not least 401k. All you young folks just entering the job force. Try to max out your 401k when you're young. Live frugally and when you're 30 you'll be sitting on a very nice plot of cash.
The Government is not going to tell you how to strip "your" money away from them. You have to seek it out and match it to your needs but you will save money.
Again folks sorry for the Off Topic rant. I just had to respond to DaveGees post because what he says happens all the time. It's not bad when your returns are very low but when you start making some cheese you're best to earn the interest on your money yourself.
If families cannot afford $1300 every 3 years for a computer there is finacial mismanagement going on generally.
"I want Apple to charge less for Macs so I don't have to worry about buying $5 drinks at the local pub. So I don't have to worry about spending $60 on a sweater at the Mall so I don't have to worry about spending $2000 on those rims for my car..etc etc etc"
Couldn't have said it better myself. People bitch about computers being very expensive. Well, save! GET A JOB. Manage your money. Get out of your parents' basement and and stop throwing cash down the drain. Even people with 6 figure salaries overspend. Even people that make minimum wage live debt free. It's all about managing your dough.
It can be done. It's a matter of wanting to do it. It takes some conscious saving, though. Money won't appear magically.
I'd surprise you, in my neck of the woods, you buy the beer, I' buy the steak -- good prices on Canadian beef lately
Sounds risky but I'd be MAD not to pass on those special Canadian COW.
Monkeyastronaught- you'd be amazed at how many people that make 6 figures
1. Do their own taxes(probably costing themselve thousands)
2. Have no clue how our tax system works(exemptions etc)
As for $1299 I don't want to trivialize the plightt of some families. I probably sounded a bit obtuse but I'm thinking that if I'm on a pretty severe budget the eMac isn't looking half bad. Sure it's not a LCD but to a family that needs a computer and wants a Mac..it is not bad.
I haven't finished this entire thread yet (only got to page 4), but I wanted to share my story with you folks.
I work in IT. I have built my own PCs (albeit, the last was many moons ago). And I am going to buy the new iMac as soon as it is released.
I am the consumer that Apple is trying to convert. I last bought a PC in 2000. Price was a major factor and I needed to upgrade to a PC that I could burn CDs on. It was a cheap Celeron PC that I spent about $700 on. Hell, this PC was obsolete 1 year after I bought it. Yet here I am today with the same PC. And I never upgraded it. I only took the case off once to replace a bad NIC. I could upgrade it, but I don't care to. I don't want to fight upgrades. I don't want to download new drivers. I don't want to change settings in the bios. I don't want to run uninstall programs. I don't want my PC to hang when I try to burn a CD. I don't want viruses.
I want the better OS. I want to be able to edit and burn home movies without jumping through hoops. I want to use Garage Band to mix things recorded on my digital 8 track. I want a box that is wireless ready with a minimal amount of cords hanging out the back that I can put anywhere in my house. I want a widescreen LCD. I want an iPod. I want to open the box and have the PC work. And I NEVER want to open up the computer. Never. And most people are like me. They want to fool around with thier home videos and pictures and just have fun.
Does that include gaming? Not for me, but it does for some (I have a GameCube for that and until computers come with 36 inch flat screen monitors and sound that can rival my home theather setup, I won't be playing any games on a computer in the near future). It seems to me the gamers would be better off with the PowerMac, just like PC gamers would be better off with the High End Dell Gamer machine or an AlienWare PC or something highly customizable. The price points on these would be similar.
I MAY pay a couple hundred bucks more for the iMac over a similar PC, but for the reasons listed above (and many more I am sure), I feel that I will get a better deal in the long run with an iMac. I think some here are losing sight of the big picture. Apple wants to convert people like me...because I am the most common type of computer user in the world.
Funny how discussion of rumored computer specs can degenerate into this kind of hate-filled vitriol.
Also funny is that 10 years ago, I was giving plenty of computer purchasing advice to people twice my age (at least) and they respected my opinion. Age has nothing to do with intelligence and aptitude, as you so aptly demonstrate in your post.
I think his point was that Applenut is just a damn kid who doesn't know how to handle money. I'm sure Applenut or you or anyone can give computer purchasing advice. Hmurchison was explaining how affordable a mac can be if you manage your budget right, and that's something he probably knows about since he's got a kid, etc.
Sad it comes down to bad words and stuff, but hey, let's not forget this is just a forum to express (frequently) opposing views.
Hehe, TS corrected the graphics nomenclature conflicts in the current version of the "exclusive". Originally they used GeForce MX 5200 Ultra, now it is FX. It's the web for you, where publishers can correct mistakes without mention, not even a bump in version numbers.
The question is not whether there is demand, but whether there's enough. There was demand for the Cube, too. After all, I have one.
Just remember: Graphics card expandability means constraining the design to accept a 12" card of nearly arbitrary heat and noise characteristics (which means a beefed-up cooling system), adding height to satisfy the recent NVIDIA proclivity for taking up a neighboring PCI slot, beefing up the power supply to handle an essentially arbitrary power draw, and of course paying more for an entire graphics card, and for the additional overhead of swapping it in from a BTO list, instead of just paying for a single GPU soldered to the board. So everyone is accepting a larger, louder, less elegant and costlier design for the distinct minority that will ever upgrade the GPU. At best, this will make the iMac no better a design than any random PC tower, and those aren't designed for consumer use at all - in fact, it's a stretch to even say they're designed.
Yes, laptops are a special case. I was going to throw in a disclaimer but I wanted to get a post out there regarding non-upgradeable video and an AIO enclosure. Many people have posted to budget for a new computer every 3 years. I can live with that. What I was trying to say was sometimes the AIO form factor (in my example the Rev A PBG4) won't allow a computer to make it even 3 years.
At this point, I'm not concerned about the case. If they have to tweak it to allow an AGP/PCI-e slot that's fine with me. I just want a (slightly) expandable Mac without paying $2K USD. I want it so I can get rid of my 5 year old PC and move exclusively to OS X at home. If the new iMac can't give me what I'm looking for then I'll have to keep plugging on with my AlBook.
I think his point was that Applenut is just a damn kid who doesn't know how to handle money. I'm sure Applenut or you or anyone can give computer purchasing advice. Hmurchison was explaining how affordable a mac can be if you manage your budget right, and that's something he probably knows about since he's got a kid, etc.
Sad it comes down to bad words and stuff, but hey, let's not forget this is just a forum to express (frequently) opposing views.
I have 2 kids and due to cost of daycare my wife stays at home, meanwhile I'm making ~30k a year gross. I could save up for an iMac but why would I want a lesser computer, you keep goin on and on about how the LCD is worth this the comp is worth this and yet you can't see that to me that LCD is worthless. The 300 or so bucks I'd be forced to spend on that LCD I can save to buy clothes and presents for my kids. The 19" CRT I currently have looks better to me than most 15" and 17" LCD's I've seen including Apple's. Furthermore I like to play games occasionally w/o needing to take over the TV from my son or wife and that means being able to change the video card. You may not like it but the market has spoken,
AIO desktops are NOT what most consumers want or need. After all if that 'great' LCD that Apple forces on you died out w/in 2 years I for one wouldn't be able to justify buying yet another $1300 AIO, and I seriously doubt most other consumers could either.
For those of you who point out that laptops are beginning to outsell desktops and yet they are AIO's are again missing the point. Laptops unlike the iMac are portable and often lighter (yes there are some PC laptops that might actually be heavier but they are still portable in a way the iMac is not).
Furthermore I like to play games occasionally w/o needing to take over the TV from my son or wife and that means being able to change the video card. You may not like it but the market has spoken,
AIO desktops are NOT what most consumers want or need. After all if that 'great' LCD that Apple forces on you died out w/in 2 years I for one wouldn't be able to justify buying yet another $1300 AIO, and I seriously doubt most other consumers could either.
...
Yes, I'm fully aware the iMac is not the solution to all consumer needs. But as I said before, I think the iMac has become a computer more concerned with being Apple's showcase for good design, rather than a machine that wants to meet the desires of the people in the market for an upgradable consumer machine.
The machine you describe may be what you want, but it's not an iMac. It's not a PowerMac or an eMac. It's just something Apple is not manufacturing. However, I think they do a fine job in providing adequate alternatives for different type of computing needs. Not perfect, just adequate.
I'm not a big fan of the LCDs on desktop machines. I say, "if you don't have to move it around, why the heck do you need to spend an extra 300 on the screen?!" It's not the feature I liked the most about the iMac G4 (the circular, white-igloo like body was), but it's sure pretty and expensive.
I guess I'm rambling a little, but some see it as "Apple doesn't make the iMac a computer that reflects what consumers want. Let me choose the screen and upgrade, etc." but then you get on the whole argument regarding the headless Mac that may never happen. I guess* Apple just ain't interested in biting away from lower-end PowerMac sales.
I have 2 kids and due to cost of daycare my wife stays at home, meanwhile I'm making ~30k a year gross. I could save up for an iMac but why would I want a lesser computer, you keep goin on and on about how the LCD is worth this the comp is worth this and yet you can't see that to me that LCD is worthless. The 300 or so bucks I'd be forced to spend on that LCD I can save to buy clothes and presents for my kids. The 19" CRT I currently have looks better to me than most 15" and 17" LCD's I've seen including Apple's. Furthermore I like to play games occasionally w/o needing to take over the TV from my son or wife and that means being able to change the video card. You may not like it but the market has spoken,
So get a PC!
Nah, just kidding. You echo the sentiments of probably many people that consider the Mac and then turn their head. It's one thing to force things on consumers and have them be successful (iTunes/iPod). It's a totally different thing to force things on a consumer (attached monitor, soldered video card, etc.) and have it not be successful at all. Just look at unit sales; Apple has to rethink their lineup and do some market analysis. They can do better than 3% of the pie by starting with the midrange market.
Quote:
AIO desktops are NOT what most consumers want or need.
If only Apple's design team would understand this.
The machine you describe may be what you want, but it's not an iMac. It's not a PowerMac or an eMac. It's just something Apple is not manufacturing. However, I think they do a fine job in providing adequate alternatives for different type of computing needs. Not perfect, just adequate.
Well said. If only "the computer for the rest of us" was meant to target what Apple is currently not.
Nah, just kidding. You echo the sentiments of probably many people that consider the Mac and then turn their head. It's one thing to force things on consumers and have them be successful (iTunes/iPod). It's a totally different thing to force things on a consumer (attached monitor, soldered video card, etc.) and have it not be successful at all. Just look at unit sales; Apple has to rethink their lineup and do some market analysis. They can do better than 3% of the pie by starting with the midrange market.
If only Apple's design team would understand this.
Hey, any of you guys remember when it was possible to upgrade VRAM? On some of those machines, you put chips in sockets; in other ones, you put in a SIMM.
So people who wanted to upgrade their video could do so cheaply, and people who didn't, didn't have to pay a lot more for the machine. All it took was a fifty-cent socket or two. (sigh)
Hey, any of you guys remember when it was possible to upgrade VRAM? On some of those machines, you put chips in sockets; in other ones, you put in a SIMM.
So people who wanted to upgrade their video could do so cheaply, and people who didn't, didn't have to pay a lot more for the machine. All it took was a fifty-cent socket or two. (sigh)
That was possible on the Bondi blue iMacs, wasn't it? I wasn't a mac user back then. I was just a mac fan without a mac.
True and what did apple do? they closed that slot right away. who ran the show ? Steve. He is the one who doesnt want expansion in consumer models while the otherside is starting to have upgradeable video in laptops.
Hey, any of you guys remember when it was possible to upgrade VRAM? On some of those machines, you put chips in sockets; in other ones, you put in a SIMM.
So people who wanted to upgrade their video could do so cheaply, and people who didn't, didn't have to pay a lot more for the machine. All it took was a fifty-cent socket or two. (sigh)
That was way before the iMacs, IIRC. That was when Apple integrated their own graphics on the motherboard, similar to Intel Integrated Graphics? today. I remember being able to do that in the 680x0 days, and also with the early Power Macs. Nowadays, Apple uses video cards from ATI or NVidia, which don't have extra VRAM slots on them.
The rev A bondis I think could have another few mb of vram added to them, the rev B came with 6mb and the rev A 2mb.. after that what you got given was all you could get.
Comments
Originally posted by hmurchison
If I met anyone one of you in Seattle I'd let you buy me a beer. Well unless you're Matsu..then you'd "have" to buy him his beer
I'd surprise you, in my neck of the woods, you buy the beer, I' buy the steak -- good prices on Canadian beef lately
Originally posted by Amorph
Laptops are a special case.
Extremely. *NO* vendor provides an open architecture laptop. They simply don't exist. Buy from Dell, IBM, Toshiba, or Apple, and you're going to get a closed system. And yet, somehow, the consumer has made this the fastest growing market in computers. Odd, no?
DaveGee
You want to hear some stories about that. I spoke to a guy that got $6000 back in 2003. I said "You know you should probably talk to a tax advisor so that you can setup your exemptions so that you are keeping your money during the year"
and he said "I like getting big returns" WTF???? Imagine if he had that $6000 in a 6 month CD. Wouldn't be a lot of interest but you would get that interest and not Uncle Sam.
DaveGee here's what I want to do. If I'm on a fixed income I want to grab the latest Publication 15 from irs.gov and find out what my total tax liability should be. Once I get that number I know that my taxes will not exceed that amount unless I get a Bonus, Commission or sell stock. Bonusus are taxed at the Supplemental rate of %25 anyways so I'm ok there.
Then I will exempt myself from Federal Income Tax and take a monthly amount that should be going to FIT and deposit to a CD or any investment that allows me to deposit for up to one year.
Come tax time the "Gubment" ask for their money I pay from the CD and any interest I've earned is mine.
Also I've seen people with monthly daycare expenses that didn't know that they could apply for a Flexible Spending Account. $600 a month in daycare expenses is not uncommon for multiple children. Getting that tax free saves you at least a $100 or more annually.
Plus you have Health Care Spending accounts for prescriptions and other things. Did you all know you can cover Lasik Eye surgery with a HCSA sometimes? Tax free baby!!
Last but not least 401k. All you young folks just entering the job force. Try to max out your 401k when you're young. Live frugally and when you're 30 you'll be sitting on a very nice plot of cash.
The Government is not going to tell you how to strip "your" money away from them. You have to seek it out and match it to your needs but you will save money.
Again folks sorry for the Off Topic rant. I just had to respond to DaveGees post because what he says happens all the time. It's not bad when your returns are very low but when you start making some cheese you're best to earn the interest on your money yourself.
Originally posted by hmurchison
If families cannot afford $1300 every 3 years for a computer there is finacial mismanagement going on generally.
"I want Apple to charge less for Macs so I don't have to worry about buying $5 drinks at the local pub. So I don't have to worry about spending $60 on a sweater at the Mall so I don't have to worry about spending $2000 on those rims for my car..etc etc etc"
Couldn't have said it better myself. People bitch about computers being very expensive. Well, save! GET A JOB. Manage your money. Get out of your parents' basement and and stop throwing cash down the drain. Even people with 6 figure salaries overspend. Even people that make minimum wage live debt free. It's all about managing your dough.
It can be done. It's a matter of wanting to do it. It takes some conscious saving, though. Money won't appear magically.
Originally posted by Matsu
I'd surprise you, in my neck of the woods, you buy the beer, I' buy the steak -- good prices on Canadian beef lately
Sounds risky but I'd be MAD not to pass on those special Canadian COW.
Monkeyastronaught- you'd be amazed at how many people that make 6 figures
1. Do their own taxes(probably costing themselve thousands)
2. Have no clue how our tax system works(exemptions etc)
As for $1299 I don't want to trivialize the plightt of some families. I probably sounded a bit obtuse but I'm thinking that if I'm on a pretty severe budget the eMac isn't looking half bad. Sure it's not a LCD but to a family that needs a computer and wants a Mac..it is not bad.
I work in IT. I have built my own PCs (albeit, the last was many moons ago). And I am going to buy the new iMac as soon as it is released.
I am the consumer that Apple is trying to convert. I last bought a PC in 2000. Price was a major factor and I needed to upgrade to a PC that I could burn CDs on. It was a cheap Celeron PC that I spent about $700 on. Hell, this PC was obsolete 1 year after I bought it. Yet here I am today with the same PC. And I never upgraded it. I only took the case off once to replace a bad NIC. I could upgrade it, but I don't care to. I don't want to fight upgrades. I don't want to download new drivers. I don't want to change settings in the bios. I don't want to run uninstall programs. I don't want my PC to hang when I try to burn a CD. I don't want viruses.
I want the better OS. I want to be able to edit and burn home movies without jumping through hoops. I want to use Garage Band to mix things recorded on my digital 8 track. I want a box that is wireless ready with a minimal amount of cords hanging out the back that I can put anywhere in my house. I want a widescreen LCD. I want an iPod. I want to open the box and have the PC work. And I NEVER want to open up the computer. Never. And most people are like me. They want to fool around with thier home videos and pictures and just have fun.
Does that include gaming? Not for me, but it does for some (I have a GameCube for that and until computers come with 36 inch flat screen monitors and sound that can rival my home theather setup, I won't be playing any games on a computer in the near future). It seems to me the gamers would be better off with the PowerMac, just like PC gamers would be better off with the High End Dell Gamer machine or an AlienWare PC or something highly customizable. The price points on these would be similar.
I MAY pay a couple hundred bucks more for the iMac over a similar PC, but for the reasons listed above (and many more I am sure), I feel that I will get a better deal in the long run with an iMac. I think some here are losing sight of the big picture. Apple wants to convert people like me...because I am the most common type of computer user in the world.
Originally posted by PBG4 Dude
You're a grownup? You sound like a snot to me.
Funny how discussion of rumored computer specs can degenerate into this kind of hate-filled vitriol.
Also funny is that 10 years ago, I was giving plenty of computer purchasing advice to people twice my age (at least) and they respected my opinion. Age has nothing to do with intelligence and aptitude, as you so aptly demonstrate in your post.
I think his point was that Applenut is just a damn kid who doesn't know how to handle money. I'm sure Applenut or you or anyone can give computer purchasing advice. Hmurchison was explaining how affordable a mac can be if you manage your budget right, and that's something he probably knows about since he's got a kid, etc.
Sad it comes down to bad words and stuff, but hey, let's not forget this is just a forum to express (frequently) opposing views.
$999 15" iMac (the 15" Powerbook widescreen)
Standard: 1.6 GHz G5, 32 MB graphics, 40 GB drive, combo optical, 256 MB
BTO options: 1.8/2.0 GHz, 64 MB graphics, Superdrive, etc.
$1299 17" iMac
Standard: 1.6 GHz G5, 64 MB graphics, 80 GB drive, combo optical, 256 MB
BTO options: 1.8/2.0 GHz, 128 MB graphics, Superdrive, etc.
$1799 20" iMac
Standard: 1.8 GHz G5, 64 MB graphics, 80 GB drive, Superdrive, 512 MB
BTO options: 2.0 GHz, 128 MB graphics, etc.
Originally posted by Amorph
Laptops are a special case.
The question is not whether there is demand, but whether there's enough. There was demand for the Cube, too. After all, I have one.
Just remember: Graphics card expandability means constraining the design to accept a 12" card of nearly arbitrary heat and noise characteristics (which means a beefed-up cooling system), adding height to satisfy the recent NVIDIA proclivity for taking up a neighboring PCI slot, beefing up the power supply to handle an essentially arbitrary power draw, and of course paying more for an entire graphics card, and for the additional overhead of swapping it in from a BTO list, instead of just paying for a single GPU soldered to the board. So everyone is accepting a larger, louder, less elegant and costlier design for the distinct minority that will ever upgrade the GPU. At best, this will make the iMac no better a design than any random PC tower, and those aren't designed for consumer use at all - in fact, it's a stretch to even say they're designed.
Yes, laptops are a special case. I was going to throw in a disclaimer but I wanted to get a post out there regarding non-upgradeable video and an AIO enclosure. Many people have posted to budget for a new computer every 3 years. I can live with that. What I was trying to say was sometimes the AIO form factor (in my example the Rev A PBG4) won't allow a computer to make it even 3 years.
At this point, I'm not concerned about the case. If they have to tweak it to allow an AGP/PCI-e slot that's fine with me. I just want a (slightly) expandable Mac without paying $2K USD. I want it so I can get rid of my 5 year old PC and move exclusively to OS X at home. If the new iMac can't give me what I'm looking for then I'll have to keep plugging on with my AlBook.
Originally posted by monkeyastronaut
I think his point was that Applenut is just a damn kid who doesn't know how to handle money. I'm sure Applenut or you or anyone can give computer purchasing advice. Hmurchison was explaining how affordable a mac can be if you manage your budget right, and that's something he probably knows about since he's got a kid, etc.
Sad it comes down to bad words and stuff, but hey, let's not forget this is just a forum to express (frequently) opposing views.
I have 2 kids and due to cost of daycare my wife stays at home, meanwhile I'm making ~30k a year gross. I could save up for an iMac but why would I want a lesser computer, you keep goin on and on about how the LCD is worth this the comp is worth this and yet you can't see that to me that LCD is worthless. The 300 or so bucks I'd be forced to spend on that LCD I can save to buy clothes and presents for my kids. The 19" CRT I currently have looks better to me than most 15" and 17" LCD's I've seen including Apple's. Furthermore I like to play games occasionally w/o needing to take over the TV from my son or wife and that means being able to change the video card. You may not like it but the market has spoken,
AIO desktops are NOT what most consumers want or need. After all if that 'great' LCD that Apple forces on you died out w/in 2 years I for one wouldn't be able to justify buying yet another $1300 AIO, and I seriously doubt most other consumers could either.
For those of you who point out that laptops are beginning to outsell desktops and yet they are AIO's are again missing the point. Laptops unlike the iMac are portable and often lighter (yes there are some PC laptops that might actually be heavier but they are still portable in a way the iMac is not).
Originally posted by Dazaran
...
Furthermore I like to play games occasionally w/o needing to take over the TV from my son or wife and that means being able to change the video card. You may not like it but the market has spoken,
AIO desktops are NOT what most consumers want or need. After all if that 'great' LCD that Apple forces on you died out w/in 2 years I for one wouldn't be able to justify buying yet another $1300 AIO, and I seriously doubt most other consumers could either.
...
Yes, I'm fully aware the iMac is not the solution to all consumer needs. But as I said before, I think the iMac has become a computer more concerned with being Apple's showcase for good design, rather than a machine that wants to meet the desires of the people in the market for an upgradable consumer machine.
The machine you describe may be what you want, but it's not an iMac. It's not a PowerMac or an eMac. It's just something Apple is not manufacturing. However, I think they do a fine job in providing adequate alternatives for different type of computing needs. Not perfect, just adequate.
I'm not a big fan of the LCDs on desktop machines. I say, "if you don't have to move it around, why the heck do you need to spend an extra 300 on the screen?!" It's not the feature I liked the most about the iMac G4 (the circular, white-igloo like body was), but it's sure pretty and expensive.
I guess I'm rambling a little, but some see it as "Apple doesn't make the iMac a computer that reflects what consumers want. Let me choose the screen and upgrade, etc." but then you get on the whole argument regarding the headless Mac that may never happen. I guess* Apple just ain't interested in biting away from lower-end PowerMac sales.
*and bound to be wrong.
Originally posted by Dazaran
I have 2 kids and due to cost of daycare my wife stays at home, meanwhile I'm making ~30k a year gross. I could save up for an iMac but why would I want a lesser computer, you keep goin on and on about how the LCD is worth this the comp is worth this and yet you can't see that to me that LCD is worthless. The 300 or so bucks I'd be forced to spend on that LCD I can save to buy clothes and presents for my kids. The 19" CRT I currently have looks better to me than most 15" and 17" LCD's I've seen including Apple's. Furthermore I like to play games occasionally w/o needing to take over the TV from my son or wife and that means being able to change the video card. You may not like it but the market has spoken,
So get a PC!
Nah, just kidding. You echo the sentiments of probably many people that consider the Mac and then turn their head. It's one thing to force things on consumers and have them be successful (iTunes/iPod). It's a totally different thing to force things on a consumer (attached monitor, soldered video card, etc.) and have it not be successful at all. Just look at unit sales; Apple has to rethink their lineup and do some market analysis. They can do better than 3% of the pie by starting with the midrange market.
AIO desktops are NOT what most consumers want or need.
If only Apple's design team would understand this.
Originally posted by monkeyastronaut
The machine you describe may be what you want, but it's not an iMac. It's not a PowerMac or an eMac. It's just something Apple is not manufacturing. However, I think they do a fine job in providing adequate alternatives for different type of computing needs. Not perfect, just adequate.
Well said. If only "the computer for the rest of us" was meant to target what Apple is currently not.
Originally posted by bborofka
So get a PC!
Nah, just kidding. You echo the sentiments of probably many people that consider the Mac and then turn their head. It's one thing to force things on consumers and have them be successful (iTunes/iPod). It's a totally different thing to force things on a consumer (attached monitor, soldered video card, etc.) and have it not be successful at all. Just look at unit sales; Apple has to rethink their lineup and do some market analysis. They can do better than 3% of the pie by starting with the midrange market.
If only Apple's design team would understand this.
So true. One more reply and you hit 100!
So people who wanted to upgrade their video could do so cheaply, and people who didn't, didn't have to pay a lot more for the machine. All it took was a fifty-cent socket or two. (sigh)
Originally posted by cubist
Hey, any of you guys remember when it was possible to upgrade VRAM? On some of those machines, you put chips in sockets; in other ones, you put in a SIMM.
So people who wanted to upgrade their video could do so cheaply, and people who didn't, didn't have to pay a lot more for the machine. All it took was a fifty-cent socket or two. (sigh)
That was possible on the Bondi blue iMacs, wasn't it? I wasn't a mac user back then. I was just a mac fan without a mac.
Originally posted by cubist
Hey, any of you guys remember when it was possible to upgrade VRAM? On some of those machines, you put chips in sockets; in other ones, you put in a SIMM.
So people who wanted to upgrade their video could do so cheaply, and people who didn't, didn't have to pay a lot more for the machine. All it took was a fifty-cent socket or two. (sigh)
That was way before the iMacs, IIRC. That was when Apple integrated their own graphics on the motherboard, similar to Intel Integrated Graphics? today. I remember being able to do that in the 680x0 days, and also with the early Power Macs. Nowadays, Apple uses video cards from ATI or NVidia, which don't have extra VRAM slots on them.