Now here's someone who's hit the nail right on the head! Apple is in the best position they've been in for ages to grow market share and what are they doing? From what I can see they're doig zilch to capitalise on their current successes.
I'm sure they could produce an affordable headless G5 that could be upgraded but why the heck won't they?
Hey Steve! Give us a decent, upgradeable, headless G5 PLEASE!!?
They were in the same position a few years ago, and created a CUBE. A Lot of people in here wanted a headless Mac, but very few actually came through on the purchase.
Apple does not want to repeat history all over again.
That's because a headless machine with crappy specs at $1299 is expensive an undesirable. The cube was not the last headless mac. It was the last headless mac targeted at consumers, and it failed because it didn't have anything to offer (low price was one of those missing offerings), besides just being headless and GPU upgradeable.
That's precisely my point. The cube was 450Mhz and competitive with the rest of the line in speed. It was GPU and CPU upgradable. It was nigh silent as well. It failed. Just as a headless Mac today even with GPU upgradability would fail. Consumer are far too conditioned to thinking that a Tower means power and upgradability.
I actually agree with hmurchison...most people have financial management problems. If someone really wanted and cared for a good computer, they could shave a couple hundred dollars here and there to buy a Mac...a small sacrifice, IMO.
Yes, but from his perspective, why should he? This hypothetical customer probably wants a lot of things he can't easily afford, not just a good computer. Why shouldn't he "shave a couple hundred dollars" by buying a PC instead of a Mac so that he can pay for a vacation or something else on his wish list?
That's precisely my point. The cube was 450Mhz and competitive with the rest of the line in speed. It was GPU and CPU upgradable. It was nigh silent as well. It failed. Just as a headless Mac today even with GPU upgradability would fail. Consumer are far too conditioned to thinking that a Tower means power and upgradability.
It was perceived as fast as, or slower than the iMac (450 Mhz G4 vs, 500 Mhz G3), and it was more expensive, and of course didn't include any monitor (and the 15" Studio Displays were really expensive. Did you even get a rebate if you purchased it with a Cube?), so the total purchase was much more expensive than the iMac. It just wasn't the sweet deal it could've been.
Yes, but from his perspective, why should he? This hypothetical customer probably wants a lot of things he can't easily afford, not just a good computer. Why shouldn't he "shave a couple hundred dollars" by buying a PC instead of a Mac so that he can pay for a vacation or something else on his wish list?
That's exactly my point. People want to fund their other desires by pressuring Apple to lower its pricing. Every company faces this. Apple tries to make people see the value of the Macintosh brand. If they fail to do that then they're happy with their efforts and should that person buy a PC that is the way the ball bounces.
Apple is a premium brand. Whoring their product does nothing for the name. Just like cloning diminished the platform so does trying to compete with the conformity that is the PC landscape.
Microsoft almost did it. They almost sowed the whole market up but this industry does't want a monolithic standard. Linux will continue to make inroads from the Server down. Microsoft in 10 years will not be as powerful as today. A vibrant computer industry has many players and open standards in which to share information. Microsoft is an anathema to this.
Apple will always be the boutique brand of computing. I think Apple moving into the consumer electronics place is good thing. Look for Apple to eventually attend CES every year to market their wares. Look for more US IT companies to encroach into Asian strongholds and take marketshare. China builds'em cheap for everyone so the winners will be the cool designs. The Mac has had its day. Apple will seek new areas to generate revenue but they know chasing PC pricing is folly.
That's precisely my point. The cube was 450Mhz and competitive with the rest of the line in speed. It was GPU and CPU upgradable. It was nigh silent as well. It failed. Just as a headless Mac today even with GPU upgradability would fail. Consumer are far too conditioned to thinking that a Tower means power and upgradability.
I really wouldn't hold that up as your shining great example. The cube was a really great example of how Apple could take a great idea and shoot themselves in the foot with it. Even Apple admitted to pricing it wrong.
Again though it was basically a low form factor desktop (think laptop in a desktop box almost). That sort of design adds too much cost.
To me, the current and rumored new iMac suffer from the same pricing conundrum as the Cube. The Cube had to be sandwiched between the iMac and the PowerMac. So since the SE iMacs at the time were so popular, and there was so much pressure to push the PowerMacs to "less than" $2000 ($1999, that is), the Cube got caught in the high teens. The current and future iMac is stuck between the eMac which tops out at $1200 and the PowerMac which is still $1999 at the base config. People who want a $999 iMac should be willing to dump the eMac, or leaving it only for the education market.
Having said that, I do think Apple is a little too insistent on having absolutely no overlap in their lines though. Having the low-end iMac dip just below the price of the high-end eMac might not be so bad, the differences would have to be pronounced enough so that the buyer can make an informed decision.
It occured to me that I've just paid over $1000 for a new TV, and paid about that much for a digital camera. TVs in particular are really expensie and people seem willing to pay for it. How upside is this world when people expect their most versatile and powerful piece of electronics to be their cheapest too? It's kind of crazy to complain about Mac prices being high, when I could have bought another Mac with the same resolution, more power, more features and a better experience than my new Samsung? People must have different priorities.
It occured to me that I've just paid over $1000 for a new TV, and paid about that much for a digital camera. TVs in particular are really expensie and people seem willing to pay for it. How upside is this world when people expect their most versatile and powerful piece of electronics to be their cheapest too? It's kind of crazy to complain about Mac prices being high, when I could have bought another Mac with the same resolution, more power, more features and a better experience than my new Samsung? People must have different priorities.
It's the same reason that that has caused the average TV viewer to spend 5hrs a day. Many people are not thinkers. They work 8hrs a day and are mentally bushed. They come home and are willing to sit passively and watch TV.
They view computers are a glorfied typewriter in many cases. They don't see what makes Macintosh special and they have no desire to use iLife because, again, they are bushed and abhor thinking creatively.
I view the computer as a vital piece of my day. My broadband connection is a mall pittance to pay because the access I have grants me the ability to find exceptional deals on just about anything. I literally save money with my computer.
Someday I'm going to make a lot of money with my computers and that will change my whole value proposition. Spending $3000 won't seem like so much of a big deal then. I realize everyone's definition of value is different however and that's why we're discussing this on the boards.
Boy 5200fx or not I'm excited about seeing another generation of the iMac. Wives are going to love this thing.
They were in the same position a few years ago, and created a CUBE.
I disagree, OS X wasn't available(if memory serves it was first offered in 3/2001) and many people considered OS 9 unacceptable and not a true modern operating system. There was not the current level of notority from iTunes, iPods weren't released until the following year in October 2001. The Cube (offered in 7/2000) it did have upgradable GPU, however, it was/is not a standard size, extremely limiting available options. The Cube was more expensive than the iMac yet is was considered only slightly faster if not as fast as the iMac. And on top of that for virtually the same money( what's a couple hundred bucks amoungst us financially well managed Mac heads ), you could get a full blown tower
Apple was just coming out of the 18 month stall by Motorola and Intel and AMD were stoking the GHz wars. Many people had only disdain(mostly from FUD circulating) for the G4 and considered it some kind of novelty with Altivec. Security holes in Windows wasn't that big a concern for most Windows users as it is now.
If I've made mastakes in dates please feel free to correct me, I am getting old and the memory ain't what it used to be.
Apple is in a far better position at this date and time than it was during the Cube years...when Moto was sucking wind on delivering faster than 500 MHz chips.
Wow, all this fuss over an Apple consumer product. Can someone give me one example when Apple didn?t make a crippled, crappy spec?ed, barely modern consumer level computer? We have come to expect this from Apple and frankly I would probably go into shock if they deviated from this pattern, I don?t by their general consumer targeted machines, I am a professional programmer and web designer, I only use Apple?s professional products because they happen to offer me the speed and features I need at a fair price. Unix, RISC, dual processor and none Intel, these are my requirements when purchasing a work machine. However they do not offer a home machine that I would even deem close to desirable. iBook?s are cheaply built and slow and the iMac is too expensive and especially slow.
I agree with everyone?s complaints about the leaked specs of the future iMac, but we already knew what to except from Apple. If you can?t afford the professional line from Apple don?t bother, you?ll just get frustrated and you will get RIPPED OFF.
Someday I'm going to make a lot of money with my computers and that will change my whole value proposition.
Although I bought my PB to use for music (location work), it gets used a great deal at the moment for the Internet too, just like everyone else. We'll be building a house in the next year, and by researching new building techniques, I reckon I've saved myself a good $35K already on what will be a c. $550K build. I'll be doing some of the design work on it too.
The PowerBook is such a pleasure to use on 10.3.5 that I'll happily sit for hours doing work like that instead of goofing off to the studio or picking up a guitar. So it's making me money every which way.
OMG fuzzylogic a $550k budget?? I envy you in the deepest shade of green known to man. Someday I'll build my own house and I too will be the General Contractor because I'm pretty good and finding deals when I need to. Good luck!!
Actually I happen to feel like I get ripped off buying PCs. Only sold on "bigger, better deal" but I get the same lame Operation System that pretty much lets any outside source modify my computer(spyware) whenever it wants. Or a browser that lets just about anyone usurp my internet search. I'm tired of dealing with these PC platform vagaries. Running Mac OS is serene by comparision. You don't fear installing apps. Look at how paranoid PC users that freak out at the idea of surfing the net without a firewall or virus program. Kinda speaks volumes doesn't it?
Actually I happen to feel like I get ripped off buying PCs. Only sold on "bigger, better deal" but I get the same lame Operation System that pretty much lets any outside source modify my computer(spyware) whenever it wants. Or a browser that lets just about anyone usurp my internet search. I'm tired of dealing with these PC platform vagaries. Running Mac OS is serene by comparision. You don't fear installing apps. Look at how paranoid PC users that freak out at the idea of surfing the net without a firewall or virus program. Kinda speaks volumes doesn't it?
Have to respond to this because there's some FUD in here.
First, only MS OSs seem to be targeted for viruses / worms. You can always run Linux or one of the FreeBSD OSs. I was personally impressed by SuSE's Linux product for PCs.
Of course, this means you are limited in what software you can run, but this is the same on Mac. Although I say that Apple has the advantage here (vs. Linux).
If you run Internet Exploder and Virus Express, yes, you may infect your computer with unwanted code. You could choose to run any of the free alternatives out there (Mozilla / Firefox, Opera, etc.) and that would mitigate 90%+ chance of getting infected with unwanted code.
I run all my computers behind a hardware router. Easiest way to block unwanted attempts to infiltrate my computer. If you think that just because you run OS X you're protected then post your current IP address.
I don't fear installing apps on my home PC because I'm not downloading from P2P networks. Granted, viruses can and do sneak onto CDs from time to time, but this is a rarity.
I'm not some kind of crazy Windows defender (actually I feel a bit dirty typing this post ) but just because you're running Windows doesn't mean you're hanging out a "I'm available, hack me!" sign.
Have to respond to this because there's some FUD in here.
First, only MS OSs seem to be targeted for viruses / worms. You can always run Linux or one of the FreeBSD OSs. I was personally impressed by SuSE's Linux product for PCs.
Of course, this means you are limited in what software you can run, but this is the same on Mac. Although I say that Apple has the advantage here (vs. Linux).
If you run Internet Exploder and Virus Express, yes, you may infect your computer with unwanted code. You could choose to run any of the free alternatives out there (Mozilla / Firefox, Opera, etc.) and that would mitigate 90%+ chance of getting infected with unwanted code.
I run all my computers behind a hardware router. Easiest way to block unwanted attempts to infiltrate my computer. If you think that just because you run OS X you're protected then post your current IP address.
I don't fear installing apps on my home PC because I'm not downloading from P2P networks. Granted, viruses can and do sneak onto CDs from time to time, but this is a rarity.
I'm not some kind of crazy Windows defender (actually I feel a bit dirty typing this post ) but just because you're running Windows doesn't mean you're hanging out a "I'm available, hack me!" sign.
This is true and I also am a fan of SuSE. The problem is it takes a conscious effort on the part of the person using tthe PC. I prowl several other boards and on a few game related ones there is a steady flow of threads started by people asking help/advice to get rid of virus/adware/spyware. Running OS X may not be perfection but it allows for the user to worry a good deal less about such things.
I have a PC at home I use for gaming. I built it myself and I ensure that Explorer is never used except to retrieve Windows updates. I never use P2P and aside from gaming the machine languishes unused and pretty safe overall.
The PC does require a good deal more vigilance to ensure safe troublefree use and if you can accept it then the PC is ok.
First, only MS OSs seem to be targeted for viruses / worms. You can always run Linux or one of the FreeBSD OSs. I was personally impressed by SuSE's Linux product for PCs.
Isn't that tantamount to coming out of a movie that you thought would SUCK and saying. "It wasn't as bad as I thought".
Quote:
If you run Internet Exploder and Virus Express, yes, you may infect your computer with unwanted code. You could choose to run any of the free alternatives out there (Mozilla / Firefox, Opera, etc.) and that would mitigate 90%+ chance of getting infected with unwanted code.
I'm %90 Firefox and loving it baby! But there are always sites that do the unthinkable and go to IE favored sites(think allmusic.com and others) you have to keep IE on your PC and you will have to use it for some sites.
Quote:
I don't fear installing apps on my home PC because I'm not downloading from P2P networks. Granted, viruses can and do sneak onto CDs from time to time, but this is a rarity.
That's not taking a holistic view of the problem. P2P just has the nasty stuff but those cute little "Smiley's" and email effects programs load up data miners. My mother is a sucker for those because she doesn't realize that the reason why they are free is because they are selling her information.
Ok now let us summarize some points here
The PC buying experience
1. Buy your PC
2. Fill out the 30 mail in rebates and pray you get half.
3. Download Mozilla and Thunderbird.
4. Buy a router, Firewall and Virus App.
5. Turn off annoying services like Netsend so that you don't get harrassed by idiot PC companies abusing another MS technology.
6 Patch your XP with umpteen security updates. Reboot....reboot...reboot.
7 Download Picasa so that you can get a "real" photo manager and not some folder with crappy iconized pics on the cover.
YMMV
People what is your time worth? Do you really nitpick over your computer, watching what apps you use because they are a securit risks? I'm being told here by the "Mac Faithful" that OSX isn't good enough to mention and that this bland experience in XP is ok. Well I've had enough running my PCs for 3 years have left me bland. XP is like eating a Tofu dinner and washing it down with Soy.
You go ahead and save a few bucks to get your fill of the "Tofu and Soy". I'll pass and wait for the flavor.
2. Fill out the 30 mail in rebates and pray you get half.
3. Download Mozilla and Thunderbird.
4. Buy a router, Firewall and Virus App.
5. Turn off annoying services like Netsend so that you don't get harrassed by idiot PC companies abusing another MS technology.
6 Patch your XP with umpteen security updates. Reboot....reboot...reboot.
7 Download Picasa so that you can get a "real" photo manager and not some folder with crappy iconized pics on the cover.
My Mac buying experience
1. Buy my laptop + 30GB iPod
2. Fill out student mail-in rebate for $200 off iPod.
Requires copy of student ID, school letterhead,
receipts, etc.
3. Download Firefox.
4. Already have router for home LAN and cable-modem
sharing.
5. Activate OS X firewall. Turn off all unused ports so I
don't get harassed by anyone period.
6. Download 10.3.3, 10.3.4, 10.3.5 + all security updates
inbetween Reboot, reboot, reboot (so much for long
uptimes)
7. Hope iPhoto 4.0.3 can finally open my 1K photo archive
in less than 5 minutes.
So, exactly what's different in your PC scenario? Software has bugs. People will hack your computer if you don't take precautions. You have to reboot after installing an OS update or security update. The smart person will use every possible defense against network intrusion. Software will require updating to eradicate said bugs.
Comments
Originally posted by AdvocateUK
Now here's someone who's hit the nail right on the head! Apple is in the best position they've been in for ages to grow market share and what are they doing? From what I can see they're doig zilch to capitalise on their current successes.
I'm sure they could produce an affordable headless G5 that could be upgraded but why the heck won't they?
Hey Steve! Give us a decent, upgradeable, headless G5 PLEASE!!?
They were in the same position a few years ago, and created a CUBE. A Lot of people in here wanted a headless Mac, but very few actually came through on the purchase.
Apple does not want to repeat history all over again.
That's because a headless machine with crappy specs at $1299 is expensive an undesirable. The cube was not the last headless mac. It was the last headless mac targeted at consumers, and it failed because it didn't have anything to offer (low price was one of those missing offerings), besides just being headless and GPU upgradeable.
That's precisely my point. The cube was 450Mhz and competitive with the rest of the line in speed. It was GPU and CPU upgradable. It was nigh silent as well. It failed. Just as a headless Mac today even with GPU upgradability would fail. Consumer are far too conditioned to thinking that a Tower means power and upgradability.
Originally posted by kim kap sol
I actually agree with hmurchison...most people have financial management problems. If someone really wanted and cared for a good computer, they could shave a couple hundred dollars here and there to buy a Mac...a small sacrifice, IMO.
Yes, but from his perspective, why should he? This hypothetical customer probably wants a lot of things he can't easily afford, not just a good computer. Why shouldn't he "shave a couple hundred dollars" by buying a PC instead of a Mac so that he can pay for a vacation or something else on his wish list?
Originally posted by hmurchison
That's precisely my point. The cube was 450Mhz and competitive with the rest of the line in speed. It was GPU and CPU upgradable. It was nigh silent as well. It failed. Just as a headless Mac today even with GPU upgradability would fail. Consumer are far too conditioned to thinking that a Tower means power and upgradability.
It was perceived as fast as, or slower than the iMac (450 Mhz G4 vs, 500 Mhz G3), and it was more expensive, and of course didn't include any monitor (and the 15" Studio Displays were really expensive. Did you even get a rebate if you purchased it with a Cube?), so the total purchase was much more expensive than the iMac. It just wasn't the sweet deal it could've been.
Originally posted by 3.1416
Yes, but from his perspective, why should he? This hypothetical customer probably wants a lot of things he can't easily afford, not just a good computer. Why shouldn't he "shave a couple hundred dollars" by buying a PC instead of a Mac so that he can pay for a vacation or something else on his wish list?
That's exactly my point. People want to fund their other desires by pressuring Apple to lower its pricing. Every company faces this. Apple tries to make people see the value of the Macintosh brand. If they fail to do that then they're happy with their efforts and should that person buy a PC that is the way the ball bounces.
Apple is a premium brand. Whoring their product does nothing for the name. Just like cloning diminished the platform so does trying to compete with the conformity that is the PC landscape.
Microsoft almost did it. They almost sowed the whole market up but this industry does't want a monolithic standard. Linux will continue to make inroads from the Server down. Microsoft in 10 years will not be as powerful as today. A vibrant computer industry has many players and open standards in which to share information. Microsoft is an anathema to this.
Apple will always be the boutique brand of computing. I think Apple moving into the consumer electronics place is good thing. Look for Apple to eventually attend CES every year to market their wares. Look for more US IT companies to encroach into Asian strongholds and take marketshare. China builds'em cheap for everyone so the winners will be the cool designs. The Mac has had its day. Apple will seek new areas to generate revenue but they know chasing PC pricing is folly.
Originally posted by hmurchison
That's precisely my point. The cube was 450Mhz and competitive with the rest of the line in speed. It was GPU and CPU upgradable. It was nigh silent as well. It failed. Just as a headless Mac today even with GPU upgradability would fail. Consumer are far too conditioned to thinking that a Tower means power and upgradability.
I really wouldn't hold that up as your shining great example. The cube was a really great example of how Apple could take a great idea and shoot themselves in the foot with it. Even Apple admitted to pricing it wrong.
Again though it was basically a low form factor desktop (think laptop in a desktop box almost). That sort of design adds too much cost.
Edit: There should be sun when I'm awake damn it.
Having said that, I do think Apple is a little too insistent on having absolutely no overlap in their lines though. Having the low-end iMac dip just below the price of the high-end eMac might not be so bad, the differences would have to be pronounced enough so that the buyer can make an informed decision.
It occured to me that I've just paid over $1000 for a new TV, and paid about that much for a digital camera. TVs in particular are really expensie and people seem willing to pay for it. How upside is this world when people expect their most versatile and powerful piece of electronics to be their cheapest too? It's kind of crazy to complain about Mac prices being high, when I could have bought another Mac with the same resolution, more power, more features and a better experience than my new Samsung? People must have different priorities.
It occured to me that I've just paid over $1000 for a new TV, and paid about that much for a digital camera. TVs in particular are really expensie and people seem willing to pay for it. How upside is this world when people expect their most versatile and powerful piece of electronics to be their cheapest too? It's kind of crazy to complain about Mac prices being high, when I could have bought another Mac with the same resolution, more power, more features and a better experience than my new Samsung? People must have different priorities.
It's the same reason that that has caused the average TV viewer to spend 5hrs a day. Many people are not thinkers. They work 8hrs a day and are mentally bushed. They come home and are willing to sit passively and watch TV.
They view computers are a glorfied typewriter in many cases. They don't see what makes Macintosh special and they have no desire to use iLife because, again, they are bushed and abhor thinking creatively.
I view the computer as a vital piece of my day. My broadband connection is a mall pittance to pay because the access I have grants me the ability to find exceptional deals on just about anything. I literally save money with my computer.
Someday I'm going to make a lot of money with my computers and that will change my whole value proposition. Spending $3000 won't seem like so much of a big deal then. I realize everyone's definition of value is different however and that's why we're discussing this on the boards.
Boy 5200fx or not I'm excited about seeing another generation of the iMac. Wives are going to love this thing.
Originally posted by hmurchison
Boy 5200fx or not I'm excited about seeing another generation of the iMac. Wives are going to love this thing.
Now that is an accurate statement.
Originally posted by onlooker
They were in the same position a few years ago, and created a CUBE.
I disagree, OS X wasn't available(if memory serves it was first offered in 3/2001) and many people considered OS 9 unacceptable and not a true modern operating system. There was not the current level of notority from iTunes, iPods weren't released until the following year in October 2001. The Cube (offered in 7/2000) it did have upgradable GPU, however, it was/is not a standard size, extremely limiting available options. The Cube was more expensive than the iMac yet is was considered only slightly faster if not as fast as the iMac. And on top of that for virtually the same money( what's a couple hundred bucks amoungst us financially well managed Mac heads
Apple was just coming out of the 18 month stall by Motorola and Intel and AMD were stoking the GHz wars. Many people had only disdain(mostly from FUD circulating) for the G4 and considered it some kind of novelty with Altivec. Security holes in Windows wasn't that big a concern for most Windows users as it is now.
If I've made mastakes in dates please feel free to correct me, I am getting old and the memory ain't what it used to be.
Apple is in a far better position at this date and time than it was during the Cube years...when Moto was sucking wind on delivering faster than 500 MHz chips.
I agree with everyone?s complaints about the leaked specs of the future iMac, but we already knew what to except from Apple. If you can?t afford the professional line from Apple don?t bother, you?ll just get frustrated and you will get RIPPED OFF.
Originally posted by hmurchison
I literally save money with my computer.
Someday I'm going to make a lot of money with my computers and that will change my whole value proposition.
Although I bought my PB to use for music (location work), it gets used a great deal at the moment for the Internet too, just like everyone else. We'll be building a house in the next year, and by researching new building techniques, I reckon I've saved myself a good $35K already on what will be a c. $550K build. I'll be doing some of the design work on it too.
The PowerBook is such a pleasure to use on 10.3.5 that I'll happily sit for hours doing work like that instead of goofing off to the studio or picking up a guitar. So it's making me money every which way.
Originally posted by Relic
Can someone give me one example when Apple didn?t make a crippled, crappy spec?ed, barely modern consumer level computer?
Sure: the original iMac. The only mildly disappointing spec was the Rage II video, but that was quickly updated to the Rage Pro.
Actually I happen to feel like I get ripped off buying PCs. Only sold on "bigger, better deal" but I get the same lame Operation System that pretty much lets any outside source modify my computer(spyware) whenever it wants. Or a browser that lets just about anyone usurp my internet search. I'm tired of dealing with these PC platform vagaries. Running Mac OS is serene by comparision. You don't fear installing apps. Look at how paranoid PC users that freak out at the idea of surfing the net without a firewall or virus program. Kinda speaks volumes doesn't it?
Originally posted by hmurchison
Actually I happen to feel like I get ripped off buying PCs. Only sold on "bigger, better deal" but I get the same lame Operation System that pretty much lets any outside source modify my computer(spyware) whenever it wants. Or a browser that lets just about anyone usurp my internet search. I'm tired of dealing with these PC platform vagaries. Running Mac OS is serene by comparision. You don't fear installing apps. Look at how paranoid PC users that freak out at the idea of surfing the net without a firewall or virus program. Kinda speaks volumes doesn't it?
Have to respond to this because there's some FUD in here.
First, only MS OSs seem to be targeted for viruses / worms. You can always run Linux or one of the FreeBSD OSs. I was personally impressed by SuSE's Linux product for PCs.
Of course, this means you are limited in what software you can run, but this is the same on Mac. Although I say that Apple has the advantage here (vs. Linux).
If you run Internet Exploder and Virus Express, yes, you may infect your computer with unwanted code. You could choose to run any of the free alternatives out there (Mozilla / Firefox, Opera, etc.) and that would mitigate 90%+ chance of getting infected with unwanted code.
I run all my computers behind a hardware router. Easiest way to block unwanted attempts to infiltrate my computer. If you think that just because you run OS X you're protected then post your current IP address.
I don't fear installing apps on my home PC because I'm not downloading from P2P networks. Granted, viruses can and do sneak onto CDs from time to time, but this is a rarity.
I'm not some kind of crazy Windows defender (actually I feel a bit dirty typing this post
Originally posted by PBG4 Dude
Have to respond to this because there's some FUD in here.
First, only MS OSs seem to be targeted for viruses / worms. You can always run Linux or one of the FreeBSD OSs. I was personally impressed by SuSE's Linux product for PCs.
Of course, this means you are limited in what software you can run, but this is the same on Mac. Although I say that Apple has the advantage here (vs. Linux).
If you run Internet Exploder and Virus Express, yes, you may infect your computer with unwanted code. You could choose to run any of the free alternatives out there (Mozilla / Firefox, Opera, etc.) and that would mitigate 90%+ chance of getting infected with unwanted code.
I run all my computers behind a hardware router. Easiest way to block unwanted attempts to infiltrate my computer. If you think that just because you run OS X you're protected then post your current IP address.
I don't fear installing apps on my home PC because I'm not downloading from P2P networks. Granted, viruses can and do sneak onto CDs from time to time, but this is a rarity.
I'm not some kind of crazy Windows defender (actually I feel a bit dirty typing this post
This is true and I also am a fan of SuSE. The problem is it takes a conscious effort on the part of the person using tthe PC. I prowl several other boards and on a few game related ones there is a steady flow of threads started by people asking help/advice to get rid of virus/adware/spyware. Running OS X may not be perfection but it allows for the user to worry a good deal less about such things.
I have a PC at home I use for gaming. I built it myself and I ensure that Explorer is never used except to retrieve Windows updates. I never use P2P and aside from gaming the machine languishes unused and pretty safe overall.
The PC does require a good deal more vigilance to ensure safe troublefree use and if you can accept it then the PC is ok.
First, only MS OSs seem to be targeted for viruses / worms. You can always run Linux or one of the FreeBSD OSs. I was personally impressed by SuSE's Linux product for PCs.
Isn't that tantamount to coming out of a movie that you thought would SUCK and saying. "It wasn't as bad as I thought".
If you run Internet Exploder and Virus Express, yes, you may infect your computer with unwanted code. You could choose to run any of the free alternatives out there (Mozilla / Firefox, Opera, etc.) and that would mitigate 90%+ chance of getting infected with unwanted code.
I'm %90 Firefox and loving it baby! But there are always sites that do the unthinkable and go to IE favored sites(think allmusic.com and others) you have to keep IE on your PC and you will have to use it for some sites.
I don't fear installing apps on my home PC because I'm not downloading from P2P networks. Granted, viruses can and do sneak onto CDs from time to time, but this is a rarity.
That's not taking a holistic view of the problem. P2P just has the nasty stuff but those cute little "Smiley's" and email effects programs load up data miners. My mother is a sucker for those because she doesn't realize that the reason why they are free is because they are selling her information.
Ok now let us summarize some points here
The PC buying experience
1. Buy your PC
2. Fill out the 30 mail in rebates and pray you get half.
3. Download Mozilla and Thunderbird.
4. Buy a router, Firewall and Virus App.
5. Turn off annoying services like Netsend so that you don't get harrassed by idiot PC companies abusing another MS technology.
6 Patch your XP with umpteen security updates. Reboot....reboot...reboot.
7 Download Picasa so that you can get a "real" photo manager and not some folder with crappy iconized pics on the cover.
YMMV
People what is your time worth? Do you really nitpick over your computer, watching what apps you use because they are a securit risks? I'm being told here by the "Mac Faithful" that OSX isn't good enough to mention and that this bland experience in XP is ok. Well I've had enough running my PCs for 3 years have left me bland. XP is like eating a Tofu dinner and washing it down with Soy.
You go ahead and save a few bucks to get your fill of the "Tofu and Soy". I'll pass and wait for the flavor.
Originally posted by hmurchison
Ok now let us summarize some points here
The PC buying experience
1. Buy your PC
2. Fill out the 30 mail in rebates and pray you get half.
3. Download Mozilla and Thunderbird.
4. Buy a router, Firewall and Virus App.
5. Turn off annoying services like Netsend so that you don't get harrassed by idiot PC companies abusing another MS technology.
6 Patch your XP with umpteen security updates. Reboot....reboot...reboot.
7 Download Picasa so that you can get a "real" photo manager and not some folder with crappy iconized pics on the cover.
My Mac buying experience
1. Buy my laptop + 30GB iPod
2. Fill out student mail-in rebate for $200 off iPod.
Requires copy of student ID, school letterhead,
receipts, etc.
3. Download Firefox.
4. Already have router for home LAN and cable-modem
sharing.
5. Activate OS X firewall. Turn off all unused ports so I
don't get harassed by anyone period.
6. Download 10.3.3, 10.3.4, 10.3.5 + all security updates
inbetween Reboot, reboot, reboot (so much for long
uptimes)
7. Hope iPhoto 4.0.3 can finally open my 1K photo archive
in less than 5 minutes.
So, exactly what's different in your PC scenario? Software has bugs. People will hack your computer if you don't take precautions. You have to reboot after installing an OS update or security update. The smart person will use every possible defense against network intrusion. Software will require updating to eradicate said bugs.
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