<strong>Is motorola's "G5" a 64 bit chip as well? The boxes that *cough* got were 64-bit chips and the algorithms they were running were in 64-bit.
I don't know if that means it was absolutely IBM's chip or not.</strong><hr></blockquote>
yes, motorola's "G5" was a 64 bit chip as well.
i heard about the same shoebox, back in october/november 2001, the guy who played with it (i don't know him personally; lucky he and me) knew what was in there: 2x 1.6Mhz 64bit processors G5s with 400fsb from motorola running osX...
offcourse he could have been full of shit...
i didn't see his toy myself, but it was just before the rumours started about a G5 with mwsf2002.
<strong>Remember all that talk about the G5's going out to developers in welded-shut beige cases?</strong><hr></blockquote>
If you really mean "welded" then I cry bollocks! if you mean sealed, then maybe.
You can't electro weld something with electronic components inside it, they'd just get fried. You could perhaps do it with a blow torch, but it'd be pretty risky - I reckon you'd still damage at least half of them, if you were lucky.
If you really mean "welded" then I cry bollocks! if you mean sealed, then maybe.
You can't electro weld something with electronic components inside it, they'd just get fried. You could perhaps do it with a blow torch, but it'd be pretty risky - I reckon you'd still damage at least half of them, if you were lucky.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually, thats probably how the machines came. The box's were actually welded shut, to keep even people "in the know" from knowing absolutely whats in the machine. Thats what we've heard from alot of people reporting about these machines. I'm sure apple is very careful in their methods of welding the cases shut as to not damage the internal electronics.
You cannot elctro-weld stuff like that, and you'd just be running too much of a risk to be doing it with a blow torch. Besides which in both cases you melt all the paint off the case and do some serious damage to the zinc plating on the metal frames (and probably poison yourself at the same time).
There are relatively easy ways to seal cases, and welding isn't one of them.
<strong>Maybe it was a liberal application of good old JB Weld...!</strong><hr></blockquote>
How about they just put a padlock on the things or just use commercially available "seal" kits!?
Anyone talking about welded shut cases is living on the moon.
If its that secret the things wouldn't even be given out. Welding the case shut provides no more security than putting a seal on the case - even a wax seal! The case has vent holes in it right? So you get yourself one of those spy camera fibre optic things and... guess what, you can see in the case, welded or not.
... I just found references to stuff that you can buy for around GBP:50.00, complete with a light source, that will go through a 2mm diameter hole to view the "inside" of anything.
I assume its welded because the absolute was that you couldn't get into the case (with a rediculous amount of trouble, but the none of the people that have them are that interested in whats inside. just getting their products to work correctly with the new machines)). and the reports from months ago were that the cases were welded shut. Earlier reports + the fact that these cases were completely sealed = assumption that this case was welded as well.
It's a surprise to me that no one has mentioned the Architosh article on the G5 here. It's been mentioned here before many times, and IMHO, it's the best and most logical analysis of what happened between Apple and Motorola, and it fits what we've seen from places like The Register and from people who've popped up on AI talking about things like "ApplePI" and such.
While the article doesn't mention fab/yield problems contributing to the G5's death, it wouldn't surprise me if it played a factor. Aside from the G4, it wouldn't be the only time Moto left Apple holding the bag. If the people interviewed by Paul Kunkel for the book "AppleDesign: The Work of the Apple Industrial Design Group" can be believed, Motorola failed to deliver on manufacturing the CPU that was at the heart of the old Jaguar project--a CPU that Apple designed in-house...
You cannot elctro-weld stuff like that, and you'd just be running too much of a risk to be doing it with a blow torch. Besides which in both cases you melt all the paint off the case and do some serious damage to the zinc plating on the metal frames (and probably poison yourself at the same time).
There are relatively easy ways to seal cases, and welding isn't one of them.</strong><hr></blockquote>
<strong>It's a surprise to me that no one has mentioned the Architosh article on the G5 here.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Interesting article, but it didn't really convince me of the reasons there may have been a falling out between Apple and Motorola - ie why there is no G5 today.
Given that they are citing super-fast chips running at 2.4GHz, well over a year ago, I can't see that Apple would have had a choice other than to go for that chip if it could be feasibly manufactured.
They could not possibly have been thinking at that time that "in a couple of months something else will turn up". Even at this stage we are considering that the 970 will appear some two years after these test machines were around - at the earliest.
Sorry, this whole thing doesn't really add up to me.
It would be incredibly simple to have a small flange surrounding either side of however the box usually opens and simply spot weld the opposing sides together every inch or so.
No one would strike an arc and lay a fat bead all around a case. Of course that would wack out the innards.
Apple design is amazing. You don't think that they could figure out how to efficiently weld/seal a test mule?
Interesting article, but it didn't really convince me of the reasons there may have been a falling out between Apple and Motorola - ie why there is no G5 today.
Given that they are citing super-fast chips running at 2.4GHz, well over a year ago, I can't see that Apple would have had a choice other than to go for that chip if it could be feasibly manufactured.</strong><hr></blockquote>
If it could be feasibly manufactured, yes.
Unfortunately, that's been Mot's Achilles heel for some time now. The talk swirling around the Mot G5 also mentions that they had a bad habit of exploding inside the cases. This, to me, indicates that manufacture was not going smoothly.
Maybe some day an insider will write a book about the whole G4-G5 story at Motorola. Throw in some good stories about Steve having fits and yelling at Motorola and you might have a pretty interesting book. I would be curious why they went to IBM as well.
On a slightly different subject, wasn't it Apple who pulled Motorola into AIM in the first place? I seem to remember that IBM wanted to use Intel as a third partner. I wonder how that relationship would have worked out. Would the Wintel world have switched to the PowerPC as well or would Intel have dropped support for the PowerPC to keep developing the X86 instead? Maybe a good Sci-Fi book there.
"Maybe some day an insider will write a book about the whole G4-G5 story at Motorola. Throw in some good stories about Steve having fits and yelling at Motorola and you might have a pretty interesting book. I would be curious why they went to IBM as well."
I'm buying that book.
"If the people interviewed by Paul Kunkel for the book "AppleDesign: The Work of the Apple Industrial Design Group" can be believed, Motorola failed to deliver on manufacturing the CPU that was at the heart of the old Jaguar project--a CPU that Apple designed in-house..."
Hmmm. That's interesting. A CPU that would go with Jaguar. And Moto' stuffed up. That would kinda make sense. And Moto's been giving Apple discounts on G4s for dual machines since?
It would be incredibly simple to have a small flange surrounding either side of however the box usually opens and simply spot weld the opposing sides together every inch or so.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Like there's no high voltage electricity involved in spot welding? Get serious.
If they had a flange right around the case they could just put a pop-rivet or a bolt through it, or a commercial wire seal.
<strong> The talk swirling around the Mot G5 also mentions that they had a bad habit of exploding inside the cases. This, to me, indicates that manufacture was not going smoothly.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Comments
I don't know if that means it was absolutely IBM's chip or not.
<strong>Is motorola's "G5" a 64 bit chip as well? The boxes that *cough* got were 64-bit chips and the algorithms they were running were in 64-bit.
I don't know if that means it was absolutely IBM's chip or not.</strong><hr></blockquote>
If it were IBM chips it would mean 970 SOON. But wasn't Motorolas 7500 also 64bit?
<strong>Is motorola's "G5" a 64 bit chip as well? The boxes that *cough* got were 64-bit chips and the algorithms they were running were in 64-bit.
I don't know if that means it was absolutely IBM's chip or not.</strong><hr></blockquote>
yes, motorola's "G5" was a 64 bit chip as well.
i heard about the same shoebox, back in october/november 2001, the guy who played with it (i don't know him personally; lucky he and me) knew what was in there: 2x 1.6Mhz 64bit processors G5s with 400fsb from motorola running osX...
offcourse he could have been full of shit...
i didn't see his toy myself, but it was just before the rumours started about a G5 with mwsf2002.
[ 01-17-2003: Message edited by: gar ]</p>
<strong>Remember all that talk about the G5's going out to developers in welded-shut beige cases?</strong><hr></blockquote>
If you really mean "welded" then I cry bollocks! if you mean sealed, then maybe.
You can't electro weld something with electronic components inside it, they'd just get fried. You could perhaps do it with a blow torch, but it'd be pretty risky - I reckon you'd still damage at least half of them, if you were lucky.
<strong>
If you really mean "welded" then I cry bollocks! if you mean sealed, then maybe.
You can't electro weld something with electronic components inside it, they'd just get fried. You could perhaps do it with a blow torch, but it'd be pretty risky - I reckon you'd still damage at least half of them, if you were lucky.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually, thats probably how the machines came. The box's were actually welded shut, to keep even people "in the know" from knowing absolutely whats in the machine. Thats what we've heard from alot of people reporting about these machines. I'm sure apple is very careful in their methods of welding the cases shut as to not damage the internal electronics.
<strong>
Actually, thats probably how the machines came. The box's were actually welded...</strong><hr></blockquote>
BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!!
And again BOLLOCKS.
You cannot elctro-weld stuff like that, and you'd just be running too much of a risk to be doing it with a blow torch. Besides which in both cases you melt all the paint off the case and do some serious damage to the zinc plating on the metal frames (and probably poison yourself at the same time).
There are relatively easy ways to seal cases, and welding isn't one of them.
That's a two-part metallic epoxy, for those who don't know...
[ 01-17-2003: Message edited by: MacRonin ]</p>
<strong>Maybe it was a liberal application of good old JB Weld...!</strong><hr></blockquote>
How about they just put a padlock on the things or just use commercially available "seal" kits!?
Anyone talking about welded shut cases is living on the moon.
If its that secret the things wouldn't even be given out. Welding the case shut provides no more security than putting a seal on the case - even a wax seal! The case has vent holes in it right? So you get yourself one of those spy camera fibre optic things and... guess what, you can see in the case, welded or not.
... I just found references to stuff that you can buy for around GBP:50.00, complete with a light source, that will go through a 2mm diameter hole to view the "inside" of anything.
<strong>Maybe it was a liberal application of good old JB Weld...!
That's a two-part metallic epoxy, for those who don't know...
[ 01-17-2003: Message edited by: MacRonin ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
The handymans second best friend, after Vice Grips <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
<a href="http://www.architosh.com/news/2002-10/2002c-1023-mcp7457-rm1.phtml"; target="_blank">http://www.architosh.com/news/2002-10/2002c-1023-mcp7457-rm1.phtml</a>;
While the article doesn't mention fab/yield problems contributing to the G5's death, it wouldn't surprise me if it played a factor. Aside from the G4, it wouldn't be the only time Moto left Apple holding the bag. If the people interviewed by Paul Kunkel for the book "AppleDesign: The Work of the Apple Industrial Design Group" can be believed, Motorola failed to deliver on manufacturing the CPU that was at the heart of the old Jaguar project--a CPU that Apple designed in-house...
<strong>
BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! BOLLOCKS!!!!!!!
And again BOLLOCKS.
You cannot elctro-weld stuff like that, and you'd just be running too much of a risk to be doing it with a blow torch. Besides which in both cases you melt all the paint off the case and do some serious damage to the zinc plating on the metal frames (and probably poison yourself at the same time).
There are relatively easy ways to seal cases, and welding isn't one of them.</strong><hr></blockquote>
So you are saying they probably weren't welded?
<strong>It's a surprise to me that no one has mentioned the Architosh article on the G5 here.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Interesting article, but it didn't really convince me of the reasons there may have been a falling out between Apple and Motorola - ie why there is no G5 today.
Given that they are citing super-fast chips running at 2.4GHz, well over a year ago, I can't see that Apple would have had a choice other than to go for that chip if it could be feasibly manufactured.
They could not possibly have been thinking at that time that "in a couple of months something else will turn up". Even at this stage we are considering that the 970 will appear some two years after these test machines were around - at the earliest.
Sorry, this whole thing doesn't really add up to me.
It would be incredibly simple to have a small flange surrounding either side of however the box usually opens and simply spot weld the opposing sides together every inch or so.
No one would strike an arc and lay a fat bead all around a case. Of course that would wack out the innards.
Apple design is amazing. You don't think that they could figure out how to efficiently weld/seal a test mule?
Back to the topic...
<strong>So you are saying they probably weren't welded?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Something like that.
<strong>
Interesting article, but it didn't really convince me of the reasons there may have been a falling out between Apple and Motorola - ie why there is no G5 today.
Given that they are citing super-fast chips running at 2.4GHz, well over a year ago, I can't see that Apple would have had a choice other than to go for that chip if it could be feasibly manufactured.</strong><hr></blockquote>
If it could be feasibly manufactured, yes.
Unfortunately, that's been Mot's Achilles heel for some time now. The talk swirling around the Mot G5 also mentions that they had a bad habit of exploding inside the cases. This, to me, indicates that manufacture was not going smoothly.
On a slightly different subject, wasn't it Apple who pulled Motorola into AIM in the first place? I seem to remember that IBM wanted to use Intel as a third partner. I wonder how that relationship would have worked out. Would the Wintel world have switched to the PowerPC as well or would Intel have dropped support for the PowerPC to keep developing the X86 instead? Maybe a good Sci-Fi book there.
I'm buying that book.
"If the people interviewed by Paul Kunkel for the book "AppleDesign: The Work of the Apple Industrial Design Group" can be believed, Motorola failed to deliver on manufacturing the CPU that was at the heart of the old Jaguar project--a CPU that Apple designed in-house..."
Hmmm. That's interesting. A CPU that would go with Jaguar. And Moto' stuffed up. That would kinda make sense. And Moto's been giving Apple discounts on G4s for dual machines since?
Lemon Bon Bon
[ 01-18-2003: Message edited by: Lemon Bon Bon ]</p>
<strong>You guys are nuts.
It would be incredibly simple to have a small flange surrounding either side of however the box usually opens and simply spot weld the opposing sides together every inch or so.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Like there's no high voltage electricity involved in spot welding? Get serious.
If they had a flange right around the case they could just put a pop-rivet or a bolt through it, or a commercial wire seal.
NO WELDED CASES!
<strong> The talk swirling around the Mot G5 also mentions that they had a bad habit of exploding inside the cases. This, to me, indicates that manufacture was not going smoothly.</strong><hr></blockquote>
This makes much more sense.