Good point. In PC land (e.g. my eMachine), you have to get up above $550-600 just to get an integrated GeForce, forget about an independent graphics card. And that price obviously doesn't include a monitor. what's the cheapest Dell bundle you can get with a real graphics card?
I dont know, I gave up on dell in disgust when I say there precision work stations, machines costing 4000 to 5000 dollars AUD didn't come with a grpahics card, or any facility to add one.
Well, they asked for it! People wanted to be able to buy eMacs and now they can. So they shouldn't complain. They are good at what they're designed for as people have said. HOWEVER, the solution to this is a headless iMac, I believe. Seriously. The screen in the iMac is like half the cost. I think the 20" iMac is just nuts, unless you're super rich, because in a few years you'll want a faster computer, but the screen will be adequate for at least 5 or 6 years, until some cool new tech like OLED comes out. Even then...You plopped down a few g's and unless you're rich you wouldn't want to just stop using that screen. To make the mandatory car anology: It's like buying a really nice new sports car, let's say a nice Corvette, only the engine will wear out in a few years. Why not put a new engine in, you say? Because this Corvette is the special "Apple" edition, where the engine is freakin welded to the car frame. It can't come out, nothing can plug in. What a waste of money you say! Who the heck would make such a dumb decision at Chevy!
Do iMacs have video in? I always thought that was beyond retarded. I also don't understand for the life me where the HELL video IN is on the PowerBook 17" and even 15". Again, half that money is the display. The PB 17" is so big, it could be a display for a desktop! If it had video in I could actually see spending money to buy that, and in a few years, a new desktop, but using the PB as a display. Hehe I could sure live with 17" display, I've gotten used to a 12" one!
"On the downside, it's slow, underpowered, and pathetic."
Slow? What is he on? If my powerbook running at 1 ghz is faster then a comparable 2 ghz PC, I don't count that as slow.
Pathetic- Just an add-on to try to add to his case, he should really do some proof-reading. It has no support whatsoever, same goes with underpowered because it relates to his slow reasoning.
Well I just bought my mother an eMac for Christmas so I hope they don't suck too much....
The general point is that they are not a "worst product of 2004" machine but I think we all agree need updated.
Would not be surprised to see that in January as a quiet release or even a demo with a slightly different form factor.
I must also comment as I have before on this AIO issue and the screen outlasting the computer.
I currently have 3 AIO. 2 G3 iMacs and a Powerbook. They all work great. I could never ditch an old Mac because I have a new one and want to use the old screen. I say keep your old computers forever. I hope to have a computer in every room one day. Not fancy but conveneient little places to check email or look up a recipe... Espcially for guest bedrooms and guests...
um, despite being PC magazine their "best products" of the year included the iBook, iMac G5, and iPod mini.
PC Mag has been VERY favorable to Apple lately. Almost to a point where its strange
Macs are personal computers, and iMac and iBook are very good ones. iPod is a computer accessory. What's strange about them getting in the "best products"?
At least it HAS a graphics cheap, not intels bloody Intel Intergrated Graphics, which believe it or not, Dell still puts in their machines costing up to $5000.
What's wrong with integrated graphics if you only run software that has no graphics acceleration? Nothing.
I dont know, I gave up on dell in disgust when I say there precision work stations, machines costing 4000 to 5000 dollars AUD didn't come with a grpahics card, or any facility to add one.
Huh? Please elaborate how there was no way to add a graphics card. I know Dell has done some ridiculous things with certain components to prevent people from using generic parts, but how did they do this?
The eMac is just fine! This extreme hatred for it seems more indicative of some (other) lurking issue with apple.
My brother just got an eMac. It is the only desktop Mac within his budget. The eMac meets market needs quite well. He can now run OSX just fine. If the eMac didn?t exist, he?d still be running a budget wintel box.
Worst product? I?d say it?s one of apple?s most reasonable products. It?s actually affordable to those just earning an hourly wage.
This reminds me of BMW enthusiasts sneering at quality of the Honda Civic.
um, despite being PC magazine their "best products" of the year included the iBook, iMac G5, and iPod mini.
PC Mag has been VERY favorable to Apple lately. Almost to a point where its strange
In that case, I wonder how much apple is paying them.
No seriosly, That was just a joke. But, from PC Mags favourable impressions of SOME apple products, it's just good that the other side is seeing reason.
Computer Price with 256mb Ram, 40gb Hard drive, and 17" CRT monitor: $499.
Win XP Pro: $79
Combo Drive: $79
Firewire Card: $30
Speakers: $20
USB Keyboard and Optical Mouse: $10
Total: $746
Oh I forgot Norton Anti-Virius to deal with the Virius Problem: $69
New Total: $815
Emac: $799.
Anybody want to bet the idiot would recommend the Dell as a good beginner's PC at the $499 specs which include only a CD-Rom?
Dont forget the lack of a graphics card on the Dell. While the eMac's graphics card may be low end, it's leaps and bounds ahead of intels intergrated spaggheti.
Lets face it folks the Emac is just fine for grandma but it has a 5 year old chip in it running at a pathetic 1.25 ghz and has a pathetic videochip that cant run any new AAA title. Emac is a solid overpriced machine made with componets from years ago.Perfect for Grandma but not close for little johnny who likes to game. How long can apple push a non advancing G4? for that matter how long can they push a non advancing G5 and stale FX5200s??? Not much has changed best OS and hardware thats not but it is stylish.
Lets face it folks the Emac is just fine for grandma but it has a 5 year old chip in it running at a pathetic 1.25 ghz and has a pathetic videochip that cant run any new AAA title.
Bingo! Let's face it... the eMac is just fine for grandma.
This isn't a bad thing. There are hundreds of millions of grandmas on the planet.
Computer Price with 256mb Ram, 40gb Hard drive, and 17" CRT monitor: $499.
Win XP Pro: $79
Combo Drive: $79
Firewire Card: $30
Speakers: $20
USB Keyboard and Optical Mouse: $10
Total: $746
Oh I forgot Norton Anti-Virius to deal with the Virius Problem: $69
New Total: $815
Emac: $799.
Anybody want to bet the idiot would recommend the Dell as a good beginner's PC at the $499 specs which include only a CD-Rom?
But in the real world, the computer doesn't need to be specced to be 'just the same' than an eMac. It has to fulfill a specific need. How many folks need that exact profile of features eMac has? (let's break this into parts)
I'd venture to guess many of the 'beginners' don't need Firewire. Combo drive, maybe, but that depends as well. I have never seen any Windows user, skilled or not, do anything with FW. The Dell has internal expansion space and probably USB2 if you need that stuff. Now, the Dell box we're talking about is clearly not a gamer or DVD watching machine, so it might be OK with just CD. My mom's iBook only has CD and that hasn't slowed her down any yet. She hasn't used Firewire either.
Many folks will want to replace the one-button mouse on the eMac right away (ca-ching, add $cash), and many will be happy with the standard mouse/keyboard on the Dell. It's a desktop, it's not like you're plugging and unplugging the input devices every day.
Have you heard there is antivirus software that costs *nothing*? (AVG, BitDefender, maybe others.. just do a remotely reasonable google, like "free virus scan" or "free antivirus" and these things pop right up)
And a Windows computer, firewall up (I hear they finally ship like this), is not prone to getting viruses unless you're into warez or use IE on shady sites. Computer viruses aren't airborne. They're more like the venereal diseases of the computer world. You have to be asking for trouble to get some.
Speakers are like displays. Many people already have some. And some will not be satisfied with eMac's, whereupon they'll pay just what they would as a Dell user. For the speakers, that is - of course they can't change the display even if they'd like.
I'm not saying the Dell is a better computer, in fact I think the opposite. (IMO what the eMac has going for it is OS X, AIO form factor if someone happens to like that, and that's about it. OS X is the only big selling point here.)
My point is, how about you learn about the real strengths and weaknesses of Windows computers before criticizing them on a Mac forum where people don't need dumbed-down propaganda in order to make the wiser choice?
Gon is right. May people would just go out and buy the Dell Dimension 3000 just becuase it runs windows, has an intel chip (many people in the windows world havent even heard/like AMD), will boot up, run a few apps, and becuase Dell advertises in the consumer world, and people just dont know anyone else.
PS, and becuase dell will throw in something 'free' as well.
Bingo! Let's face it... the eMac is just fine for grandma.
This isn't a bad thing. There are hundreds of millions of grandmas on the planet.
Well since my grandfather is the one who got me started with computers I think that statement is a little under researched. He?s not just the only computer literate old dude I know either; there must be over 120 guys all over 55 that are in his computer club. The eMac is for education foremost; maybe people on a budget who like Macs or for someone who wants to try the Mac platform without putting up his house for collateral. Calling this one of the worst products of the year was unfair what about that iPod sock, stupid PC reviewer.
Me thinks you're taking the grandparents generalization too personally. It is true, useful, and non-insulting. Why would it be insulting to not need the processing power of the very newest computers on the planet? Grandparents can typically get by with less processing power because they're not gaming or compositing video effects. (There are also many outliers to the generalization about educational users needing less processing power.)
Also note that aging eyes can bennefit from the lower screen dpi available through a CRT.
It's probably more useful to talk about needs that an eMac fulfills than to codify a unifying label for all those users.
The eMac is the cheapest and most durable machine that runs OS X. Many users are drawn to a cheap and durable AIO. The eMac deserves praise for meeting these needs... even though it doesn't score any techno-weenie points in pretentious geek circles.
Me thinks you're taking the grandparents generalization too personally. It is true, useful, and non-insulting. Why would it be insulting to not need the processing power of the very newest computers on the planet? Grandparents can typically get by with less processing power because they're not gaming or compositing video effects. (There are also many outliers to the generalization about educational users needing less processing power.)
Never took the grandpa comment as an insult towards the elderly but more of a non-educated gross generalization.
Quote:
The eMac is the cheapest and most durable machine that runs OS X. Many users are drawn to a cheap and durable AIO. The eMac deserves praise for meeting these needs... even though it doesn't score any techno-weenie points in pretentious geek circles.
I would still personally rather have a PC with Linux though. The eMac just isn?t powerful enough for the price.
Comments
Originally posted by Towel
Good point. In PC land (e.g. my eMachine), you have to get up above $550-600 just to get an integrated GeForce, forget about an independent graphics card. And that price obviously doesn't include a monitor. what's the cheapest Dell bundle you can get with a real graphics card?
I dont know, I gave up on dell in disgust when I say there precision work stations, machines costing 4000 to 5000 dollars AUD didn't come with a grpahics card, or any facility to add one.
For the public consumer, not great.
Well, they asked for it! People wanted to be able to buy eMacs and now they can. So they shouldn't complain. They are good at what they're designed for as people have said. HOWEVER, the solution to this is a headless iMac, I believe. Seriously. The screen in the iMac is like half the cost. I think the 20" iMac is just nuts, unless you're super rich, because in a few years you'll want a faster computer, but the screen will be adequate for at least 5 or 6 years, until some cool new tech like OLED comes out. Even then...You plopped down a few g's and unless you're rich you wouldn't want to just stop using that screen. To make the mandatory car anology: It's like buying a really nice new sports car, let's say a nice Corvette, only the engine will wear out in a few years. Why not put a new engine in, you say? Because this Corvette is the special "Apple" edition, where the engine is freakin welded to the car frame. It can't come out, nothing can plug in. What a waste of money you say! Who the heck would make such a dumb decision at Chevy!
Do iMacs have video in? I always thought that was beyond retarded. I also don't understand for the life me where the HELL video IN is on the PowerBook 17" and even 15". Again, half that money is the display. The PB 17" is so big, it could be a display for a desktop! If it had video in I could actually see spending money to buy that, and in a few years, a new desktop, but using the PB as a display. Hehe I could sure live with 17" display, I've gotten used to a 12" one!
Slow? What is he on? If my powerbook running at 1 ghz is faster then a comparable 2 ghz PC, I don't count that as slow.
Pathetic- Just an add-on to try to add to his case, he should really do some proof-reading. It has no support whatsoever, same goes with underpowered because it relates to his slow reasoning.
Originally posted by pyriX
I wonder how much Microsoft is paying him. it is PC magazine after all.
um, despite being PC magazine their "best products" of the year included the iBook, iMac G5, and iPod mini.
PC Mag has been VERY favorable to Apple lately. Almost to a point where its strange
The general point is that they are not a "worst product of 2004" machine but I think we all agree need updated.
Would not be surprised to see that in January as a quiet release or even a demo with a slightly different form factor.
I must also comment as I have before on this AIO issue and the screen outlasting the computer.
I currently have 3 AIO. 2 G3 iMacs and a Powerbook. They all work great. I could never ditch an old Mac because I have a new one and want to use the old screen. I say keep your old computers forever. I hope to have a computer in every room one day. Not fancy but conveneient little places to check email or look up a recipe... Espcially for guest bedrooms and guests...
Anyhow,
Originally posted by applenut
um, despite being PC magazine their "best products" of the year included the iBook, iMac G5, and iPod mini.
PC Mag has been VERY favorable to Apple lately. Almost to a point where its strange
Macs are personal computers, and iMac and iBook are very good ones. iPod is a computer accessory. What's strange about them getting in the "best products"?
Originally posted by pyriX
At least it HAS a graphics cheap, not intels bloody Intel Intergrated Graphics, which believe it or not, Dell still puts in their machines costing up to $5000.
What's wrong with integrated graphics if you only run software that has no graphics acceleration? Nothing.
Originally posted by pyriX
I dont know, I gave up on dell in disgust when I say there precision work stations, machines costing 4000 to 5000 dollars AUD didn't come with a grpahics card, or any facility to add one.
Huh? Please elaborate how there was no way to add a graphics card. I know Dell has done some ridiculous things with certain components to prevent people from using generic parts, but how did they do this?
Computer Price with 256mb Ram, 40gb Hard drive, and 17" CRT monitor: $499.
Win XP Pro: $79
Combo Drive: $79
Firewire Card: $30
Speakers: $20
USB Keyboard and Optical Mouse: $10
Total: $746
Oh I forgot Norton Anti-Virius to deal with the Virius Problem: $69
New Total: $815
Emac: $799.
Anybody want to bet the idiot would recommend the Dell as a good beginner's PC at the $499 specs which include only a CD-Rom?
Originally posted by salmonstk
Well I just bought my mother an eMac for Christmas so I hope they don't suck too much....
It does not suck, it serves its purpose very well.
My brother just got an eMac. It is the only desktop Mac within his budget. The eMac meets market needs quite well. He can now run OSX just fine. If the eMac didn?t exist, he?d still be running a budget wintel box.
Worst product? I?d say it?s one of apple?s most reasonable products. It?s actually affordable to those just earning an hourly wage.
This reminds me of BMW enthusiasts sneering at quality of the Honda Civic.
Originally posted by applenut
um, despite being PC magazine their "best products" of the year included the iBook, iMac G5, and iPod mini.
PC Mag has been VERY favorable to Apple lately. Almost to a point where its strange
In that case, I wonder how much apple is paying them.
No seriosly, That was just a joke. But, from PC Mags favourable impressions of SOME apple products, it's just good that the other side is seeing reason.
Originally posted by BenRoethig
Let's compare it to a Dell Dimension 3000
Computer Price with 256mb Ram, 40gb Hard drive, and 17" CRT monitor: $499.
Win XP Pro: $79
Combo Drive: $79
Firewire Card: $30
Speakers: $20
USB Keyboard and Optical Mouse: $10
Total: $746
Oh I forgot Norton Anti-Virius to deal with the Virius Problem: $69
New Total: $815
Emac: $799.
Anybody want to bet the idiot would recommend the Dell as a good beginner's PC at the $499 specs which include only a CD-Rom?
Dont forget the lack of a graphics card on the Dell. While the eMac's graphics card may be low end, it's leaps and bounds ahead of intels intergrated spaggheti.
Originally posted by Aurora
Lets face it folks the Emac is just fine for grandma but it has a 5 year old chip in it running at a pathetic 1.25 ghz and has a pathetic videochip that cant run any new AAA title.
Bingo! Let's face it... the eMac is just fine for grandma.
This isn't a bad thing. There are hundreds of millions of grandmas on the planet.
Originally posted by BenRoethig
Let's compare it to a Dell Dimension 3000
Computer Price with 256mb Ram, 40gb Hard drive, and 17" CRT monitor: $499.
Win XP Pro: $79
Combo Drive: $79
Firewire Card: $30
Speakers: $20
USB Keyboard and Optical Mouse: $10
Total: $746
Oh I forgot Norton Anti-Virius to deal with the Virius Problem: $69
New Total: $815
Emac: $799.
Anybody want to bet the idiot would recommend the Dell as a good beginner's PC at the $499 specs which include only a CD-Rom?
But in the real world, the computer doesn't need to be specced to be 'just the same' than an eMac. It has to fulfill a specific need. How many folks need that exact profile of features eMac has? (let's break this into parts)
I'd venture to guess many of the 'beginners' don't need Firewire. Combo drive, maybe, but that depends as well. I have never seen any Windows user, skilled or not, do anything with FW. The Dell has internal expansion space and probably USB2 if you need that stuff. Now, the Dell box we're talking about is clearly not a gamer or DVD watching machine, so it might be OK with just CD. My mom's iBook only has CD and that hasn't slowed her down any yet. She hasn't used Firewire either.
Many folks will want to replace the one-button mouse on the eMac right away (ca-ching, add $cash), and many will be happy with the standard mouse/keyboard on the Dell. It's a desktop, it's not like you're plugging and unplugging the input devices every day.
Have you heard there is antivirus software that costs *nothing*? (AVG, BitDefender, maybe others.. just do a remotely reasonable google, like "free virus scan" or "free antivirus" and these things pop right up)
And a Windows computer, firewall up (I hear they finally ship like this), is not prone to getting viruses unless you're into warez or use IE on shady sites. Computer viruses aren't airborne. They're more like the venereal diseases of the computer world. You have to be asking for trouble to get some.
Speakers are like displays. Many people already have some. And some will not be satisfied with eMac's, whereupon they'll pay just what they would as a Dell user. For the speakers, that is - of course they can't change the display even if they'd like.
I'm not saying the Dell is a better computer, in fact I think the opposite. (IMO what the eMac has going for it is OS X, AIO form factor if someone happens to like that, and that's about it. OS X is the only big selling point here.)
My point is, how about you learn about the real strengths and weaknesses of Windows computers before criticizing them on a Mac forum where people don't need dumbed-down propaganda in order to make the wiser choice?
PS, and becuase dell will throw in something 'free' as well.
That is why someone would buy a DD3000
Originally posted by dfiler
Bingo! Let's face it... the eMac is just fine for grandma.
This isn't a bad thing. There are hundreds of millions of grandmas on the planet.
Well since my grandfather is the one who got me started with computers I think that statement is a little under researched. He?s not just the only computer literate old dude I know either; there must be over 120 guys all over 55 that are in his computer club. The eMac is for education foremost; maybe people on a budget who like Macs or for someone who wants to try the Mac platform without putting up his house for collateral. Calling this one of the worst products of the year was unfair what about that iPod sock, stupid PC reviewer.
Also note that aging eyes can bennefit from the lower screen dpi available through a CRT.
It's probably more useful to talk about needs that an eMac fulfills than to codify a unifying label for all those users.
The eMac is the cheapest and most durable machine that runs OS X. Many users are drawn to a cheap and durable AIO. The eMac deserves praise for meeting these needs... even though it doesn't score any techno-weenie points in pretentious geek circles.
Originally posted by dfiler
Me thinks you're taking the grandparents generalization too personally. It is true, useful, and non-insulting. Why would it be insulting to not need the processing power of the very newest computers on the planet? Grandparents can typically get by with less processing power because they're not gaming or compositing video effects. (There are also many outliers to the generalization about educational users needing less processing power.)
Never took the grandpa comment as an insult towards the elderly but more of a non-educated gross generalization.
The eMac is the cheapest and most durable machine that runs OS X. Many users are drawn to a cheap and durable AIO. The eMac deserves praise for meeting these needs... even though it doesn't score any techno-weenie points in pretentious geek circles.
I would still personally rather have a PC with Linux though. The eMac just isn?t powerful enough for the price.