This is a perfect example of why anyone telling me PC-Express is a "dumb idea" is wrong. Even apple doesn't follow the rules. They went so far as to bring another company on stage for a product that 2 people have bought (and haven't gotten shipped buy the way, the Sony HD cam) at 3,500. Doesn't make PC-Express card slot sound so silly?
Quote:
Originally posted by mugwump
Well now hold on just one minute. Just because no one here can see the benefit to a mobile PCI-Express doesn't mean that it requires the users to wake up before Apple does.
As one example, that Sony HDV camera shown onstage at the recent Macworld has a little secret that could benefit greatly from an Express Powerbook. It records high-def onto mini-DV tape, which any ibook could handle easily. But unknown to most users so far, the component out to the monitor is uncompressed high def, the same signal as extremely high end equipment.
The only problem is, only a powerful desktop could capture such bandwidth, or an expensive HD recording deck. But a Powerbook with pci express would also be able to capture it, and Apple would own that developing prosumer market.
Anyhow, doesn't PCI Express have very good heat/performance ratio compared to other Cardbus tech? Maybe this was in comparison to the AGP bus.
Here's a good explanation of MXM (based on PCI Express) iterations for laptops. Low-power may be doable soon, but unless you want to add another power-sucking, Type III card to the system (and consume more power than a PowerTuned 970fx, for comparison) you are gonna fry the skin off your legs (I won't even go into the reproductive system damage that would be caused).
What if the electron leaves one battery terminal, goes through a circuit, and comes back to the other terminal? Isn't that one less electron that will leave that battery on that charge cycle?
Argue yer physics all day, batteries are chemistry
It is the work done by the electrons seeking to go to a lower potential (i.e. from one chemical reduction potential to the next) that eventually ends up as heat.
Argue your chemistry all day, chemistry is all physics.
It is the work done by the electrons seeking to go to a lower potential (i.e. from one chemical reduction potential to the next) that eventually ends up as heat.
Argue your chemistry all day, chemistry is all physics.
I think the problem here is that the point is moot to begin with, as no electronic device can function without producing heat \
Nailed it! My dad just bought a new Toshiba notebook. It crashed after he was trying to watch the flash demo on the Nikon digital camera CD-ROM. It refused to boot afterwards. He went back to COMPUSA for an exchange on last Saturday.
History repeats itself again. My sister just email me and said the Toshiba refused to boot again after my dad tried to play game on it. This time, he's getting the money back.
Back on topic, I don't that's the innovation from Intel. "Most wintel laptops have dual layer burners." Where?
yes, except for the energy to keep the circutes cooled to just above absolute zero. Speaking of absolut, it's time to go home.
Not that I drink or anything like that.
Actually, you can get superconductors at 125K, which means that all you'd really need is liquid nitrogen...now there's a thought...A liquid nitrogen tank for a G5 laptop.
It just feels really cruel that I spend $3,200 on a powerbook and my coworker spend $1,700 has faster video, better drive options, waaaay faster computer, and pretty damn decent battery life.
Apple needs to innovate because the laptop offerings are barely impressive. Just beautiful, but why can't they be beautiful and BLOW my socks off? Am I wrong? EVEN BTO option would be okay.
Huh- I alwasy thought the powerbooks started at $1499 and went up to $2699.
Also, I would guess that the PC laptop is much thicker than any powerbook. And made of plastic too.
I've had a PC laptop and have friends who have PC laptops (though not much anymore, and they're seeing the light), and they suck. No questions.
My 4 year old iBook kicks more ass than my friends new IBM thinkpad x40 or whatever.
I'm just going to quote this, because it makes the point I was going to bring up. Apple waits until the need and the quality solution converge. Cramming in tech where there's no clearly defined use, or racing to meet a demand with an ill-begotten solution is not very Apple-like. When they do these things, they will most likely do them right.
Quote:
Originally posted by Kickaha
Nope. Apple used to push the technology every which way, and almost died. Then they learned.
It isn't about pushing every available technology out there as soon as possible. It's about pushing technology that *solves problems*.
USB? Hotswap (ADB didn't), decent speed, standard
FireWire? Hotswap (SCSI didn't), plug and play (SCSI wasn't), fast fast fast, provided as standard
WiFi? Do I really have to point this one out?
Notice how the iPod doesn't have every whizbang feature, but still has 70% market share. Why? Because it pushed the envelope only to solve problems, it didn't toss things on there just to have them on there.
This is the difference that PC boxen makers and many PC weenies don't get, and likely never will. Good design isn't about slapping on widgets, it's about stripping away the crap to leave the good stuff.
you reaaaaallly need to stop participating in threads such as this one. you just make yourself and apple users in general look like dicks. im not saying it to be a prick but its true. you use the same unintelligent arguments for every thread like this one and belittle the original poster, toss aside his/her arguments as dumb or not important, and only serve to boost your own undeserved ego.
you reaaaaallly need to stop participating in threads such as this one. you just make yourself and apple users in general look like dicks. im not saying it to be a prick but its true. you use the same unintelligent arguments for every thread like this one and belittle the original poster, toss aside his/her arguments as dumb or not important, and only serve to boost your own undeserved ego.
Applenut. Quite the impressive rebuttal. I humbly acquiesce in amazement of your considerable intellectual skills. I have finally found my superior!! Hallelujah!
Apple users "are" dicks. We have to be because we're the minority platform. We are constantly defending our platform of choice and that sometimes comes across rather rough. You know you "do" have to be a bit of an Apple apologist to support Apple. Many of us old timers remember a 15 yr old Applenut who was quite different from the Applenut we know today. Times change...arguments change. I try not to belittle anyone but the anonymity of the internet makes putting people down far easier.
You know..I start to defend Apple but then I come face to face with reality. Apple "controls the whole widget" and they are constantly behind. In any other arena this is unacceptable and a forbearer of bad things coming. Webmail has every right to be upset over what he perceives as a diminishing value in Apple Powerbooks. I have every right to rebut his assertions however in my old age I am beginning to see that every issue has multiple sides and in fact, both views are correct.
Good luck to you in baseball this year at Cal AN. Personally I like your piss and vinegar so I provoke you when I can but it's all in good fun. Unintelligent or not.
Let's distinguish between PCI Express for graphics and for expansion. ATI and nVidia are dropping AGP; soon they will only manufacture PCIe GPUs. Apple will have to adopt PCIe for graphics.
For expansion, PCIe doesn't buy you very much (as people have noted), but it uses fewer pins, so the cards can be smaller. ExpressCard is smaller than CardBus, and Mini PCIe is half the size of Mini PCI. Power is a concern, but the link can power down when not in use.
BTW, I thought the whole point of HDV is so that you don't need an HD component or HD-SDI capture card.
The whole point of HDV is to record HD content on miniDV tapes.
Not wishing to be pedantic, but the point behind HDV is to allow the "average" prosumer to create high-definition content. The miniDV thing is actually a marketing/packaging consideration that makes the format attractive as the same mechanism/media can be used for both SD and HD cameras, although there is "dedicated" HD media out there which allegedly improves on the performance that can be delivered on SD media.
There is an analogy here with HD-DVD, which if compared to BluRay, can be produced on the same production lines as standard DVD. Also, HD-DVD players will be able to play standard DVD discs naturally. The same story applies to SACD/CD.
As for the Wintel community "innovating" more in the laptop marketplace, please don't make me laugh as I could easily lose a kidney in my current parlous state. If I want a mobile production rig, I'd rather have a flightcase-friendly solution where the dual-layer drive was external/stable/maintainable. To paraphrase the chaotician (Ian Malcolm??) in Jurassic Park, some of these guys are so obsessed with whether something can or could be done that they fail to ask whether something should be done - hence why so many mobile phones are a fscking ergonomic mess with crap battery life.
Here's about the PCI-E expansion card, and here's why it's better. Thanks to another poster for linking me to more details...
The smaller cards use less power, and are less expensive to manufacture, Pitta said. The PCMCIA envisions a gradual move to the 34mm cards, but some current cards require the extra width for the electronics required to run their applications, Pitta said. Examples of ExpressCard products that require the 54mm width include smart card readers, Compact Flash adapters or even miniature hard drives.
Comments
Originally posted by mugwump
Well now hold on just one minute. Just because no one here can see the benefit to a mobile PCI-Express doesn't mean that it requires the users to wake up before Apple does.
As one example, that Sony HDV camera shown onstage at the recent Macworld has a little secret that could benefit greatly from an Express Powerbook. It records high-def onto mini-DV tape, which any ibook could handle easily. But unknown to most users so far, the component out to the monitor is uncompressed high def, the same signal as extremely high end equipment.
The only problem is, only a powerful desktop could capture such bandwidth, or an expensive HD recording deck. But a Powerbook with pci express would also be able to capture it, and Apple would own that developing prosumer market.
Anyhow, doesn't PCI Express have very good heat/performance ratio compared to other Cardbus tech? Maybe this was in comparison to the AGP bus.
Here's a good explanation of MXM (based on PCI Express) iterations for laptops. Low-power may be doable soon, but unless you want to add another power-sucking, Type III card to the system (and consume more power than a PowerTuned 970fx, for comparison) you are gonna fry the skin off your legs (I won't even go into the reproductive system damage that would be caused).
Nvidia's MXM site
It would seem they think Type I for thin/light (read: Apple). Still 18W is a lot!
Another good read on the matter is
this document on ATI's site.
Originally posted by slughead
What if the electron leaves one battery terminal, goes through a circuit, and comes back to the other terminal? Isn't that one less electron that will leave that battery on that charge cycle?
Argue yer physics all day, batteries are chemistry
It is the work done by the electrons seeking to go to a lower potential (i.e. from one chemical reduction potential to the next) that eventually ends up as heat.
Argue your chemistry all day, chemistry is all physics.
Originally posted by webmail
...
I don't think I should feel punished by apple. It just feels really cruel ...
I feel so sorry for you. Maybe see a therapist?
What can you do on a PCI-X laptop that you cant do on a AGP laptop?
Originally posted by benzene
It is the work done by the electrons seeking to go to a lower potential (i.e. from one chemical reduction potential to the next) that eventually ends up as heat.
Argue your chemistry all day, chemistry is all physics.
I think the problem here is that the point is moot to begin with, as no electronic device can function without producing heat
Dovetail
Originally posted by cubist
PC laptops stink.
Nailed it! My dad just bought a new Toshiba notebook. It crashed after he was trying to watch the flash demo on the Nikon digital camera CD-ROM. It refused to boot afterwards. He went back to COMPUSA for an exchange on last Saturday.
History repeats itself again. My sister just email me and said the Toshiba refused to boot again after my dad tried to play game on it. This time, he's getting the money back.
Back on topic, I don't that's the innovation from Intel. "Most wintel laptops have dual layer burners." Where?
Originally posted by slughead
I think the problem here is that the point is moot to begin with, as no electronic device can function without producing heat
Wouldn't a device comprised of supraconductors function without producing heat?
Originally posted by RolandG
Wouldn't a device comprised of supraconductors function without producing heat?
Guten Abend, Roland.
yes, except for the energy to keep the circuits cooled to just above absolute zero. Speaking of absolut, it's time to go home.
Not that I drink or anything like that.
edited atrocious spelling
Originally posted by wwwork
What can you do on a PCI-X laptop that you cant do on a AGP laptop?
If you're gonna flame someone, at least don't confuse PCI Express and PCI-X.
Originally posted by rickag
Guten Abend, Roland.
yes, except for the energy to keep the circutes cooled to just above absolute zero. Speaking of absolut, it's time to go home.
Not that I drink or anything like that.
Actually, you can get superconductors at 125K, which means that all you'd really need is liquid nitrogen...now there's a thought...A liquid nitrogen tank for a G5 laptop.
That'd be innovation for you!
Originally posted by webmail
It just feels really cruel that I spend $3,200 on a powerbook and my coworker spend $1,700 has faster video, better drive options, waaaay faster computer, and pretty damn decent battery life.
Apple needs to innovate because the laptop offerings are barely impressive. Just beautiful, but why can't they be beautiful and BLOW my socks off? Am I wrong? EVEN BTO option would be okay.
Huh- I alwasy thought the powerbooks started at $1499 and went up to $2699.
Also, I would guess that the PC laptop is much thicker than any powerbook. And made of plastic too.
I've had a PC laptop and have friends who have PC laptops (though not much anymore, and they're seeing the light), and they suck. No questions.
My 4 year old iBook kicks more ass than my friends new IBM thinkpad x40 or whatever.
Originally posted by Kickaha
Nope. Apple used to push the technology every which way, and almost died. Then they learned.
It isn't about pushing every available technology out there as soon as possible. It's about pushing technology that *solves problems*.
USB? Hotswap (ADB didn't), decent speed, standard
FireWire? Hotswap (SCSI didn't), plug and play (SCSI wasn't), fast fast fast, provided as standard
WiFi? Do I really have to point this one out?
Notice how the iPod doesn't have every whizbang feature, but still has 70% market share. Why? Because it pushed the envelope only to solve problems, it didn't toss things on there just to have them on there.
This is the difference that PC boxen makers and many PC weenies don't get, and likely never will. Good design isn't about slapping on widgets, it's about stripping away the crap to leave the good stuff.
Originally posted by hmurchison
You're right.
Apple freakin sucks!
you reaaaaallly need to stop participating in threads such as this one. you just make yourself and apple users in general look like dicks. im not saying it to be a prick but its true. you use the same unintelligent arguments for every thread like this one and belittle the original poster, toss aside his/her arguments as dumb or not important, and only serve to boost your own undeserved ego.
Originally posted by applenut
you reaaaaallly need to stop participating in threads such as this one. you just make yourself and apple users in general look like dicks. im not saying it to be a prick but its true. you use the same unintelligent arguments for every thread like this one and belittle the original poster, toss aside his/her arguments as dumb or not important, and only serve to boost your own undeserved ego.
Applenut. Quite the impressive rebuttal. I humbly acquiesce in amazement of your considerable intellectual skills. I have finally found my superior!! Hallelujah!
Apple users "are" dicks. We have to be because we're the minority platform. We are constantly defending our platform of choice and that sometimes comes across rather rough. You know you "do" have to be a bit of an Apple apologist to support Apple. Many of us old timers remember a 15 yr old Applenut who was quite different from the Applenut we know today. Times change...arguments change. I try not to belittle anyone but the anonymity of the internet makes putting people down far easier.
You know..I start to defend Apple but then I come face to face with reality. Apple "controls the whole widget" and they are constantly behind. In any other arena this is unacceptable and a forbearer of bad things coming. Webmail has every right to be upset over what he perceives as a diminishing value in Apple Powerbooks. I have every right to rebut his assertions however in my old age I am beginning to see that every issue has multiple sides and in fact, both views are correct.
Good luck to you in baseball this year at Cal AN. Personally I like your piss and vinegar so I provoke you when I can but it's all in good fun. Unintelligent or not.
For expansion, PCIe doesn't buy you very much (as people have noted), but it uses fewer pins, so the cards can be smaller. ExpressCard is smaller than CardBus, and Mini PCIe is half the size of Mini PCI. Power is a concern, but the link can power down when not in use.
BTW, I thought the whole point of HDV is so that you don't need an HD component or HD-SDI capture card.
Originally posted by wmf
....
BTW, I thought the whole point of HDV is so that you don't need an HD component or HD-SDI capture card.
The whole point of HDV is to record HD content on miniDV tapes.
Originally posted by Mr. Me
The whole point of HDV is to record HD content on miniDV tapes.
Not wishing to be pedantic, but the point behind HDV is to allow the "average" prosumer to create high-definition content. The miniDV thing is actually a marketing/packaging consideration that makes the format attractive as the same mechanism/media can be used for both SD and HD cameras, although there is "dedicated" HD media out there which allegedly improves on the performance that can be delivered on SD media.
There is an analogy here with HD-DVD, which if compared to BluRay, can be produced on the same production lines as standard DVD. Also, HD-DVD players will be able to play standard DVD discs naturally. The same story applies to SACD/CD.
As for the Wintel community "innovating" more in the laptop marketplace, please don't make me laugh as I could easily lose a kidney in my current parlous state. If I want a mobile production rig, I'd rather have a flightcase-friendly solution where the dual-layer drive was external/stable/maintainable. To paraphrase the chaotician (Ian Malcolm??) in Jurassic Park, some of these guys are so obsessed with whether something can or could be done that they fail to ask whether something should be done - hence why so many mobile phones are a fscking ergonomic mess with crap battery life.
Originally posted by PB
You forgot perhaps the most important:
Dual-core Pentium 4s coming in second quarter.
Alright, there is actually a second player in the game:
AMD Dual-Core Demonstrations Get Two Thumbs Up At Linuxworld.
So, dual-core x86 processors from Intel and AMD in this year. Now, where is Apple
The smaller cards use less power, and are less expensive to manufacture, Pitta said. The PCMCIA envisions a gradual move to the 34mm cards, but some current cards require the extra width for the electronics required to run their applications, Pitta said. Examples of ExpressCard products that require the 54mm width include smart card readers, Compact Flash adapters or even miniature hard drives.