Didn't Steve say a while ago that Apple wouldn't change processors until OSX is finished? I only hope that 10.3 would be considered done. That combined with a "year of the notebook" slogan, I would bet a 2004 roll out.
<strong>Didn't Steve say a while ago that Apple wouldn't change processors until OSX is finished? I only hope that 10.3 would be considered done. That combined with a "year of the notebook" slogan, I would bet a 2004 roll out.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Positive he meant architecture or platform or whatever, as in x86... not processors. The 970 should be transparent as far as coding requirements. It is evolutionary in PPC development.. though a big leap in ability still fundamentally similar.
This isn't the 970, this is the POWER4+. Not the same thing. The IBM machines have massive memory subsystems which cost way too much to appear in Apple machines.
[quote] Pessamistically, I am afrade that Apple will drop the Dual systems in the current PM price points when they move them to 970's, or only make the Duals in the top of the line. This is dishartening, and is counter productive in Apple's long term strategy of MP pro computers, becouse Developers will be less likely to add MP optimization to thier software if Apple it is still a "nitch" market within Apple sales. <hr></blockquote>
I'm a little nervous about seeing dual 970s in the introduction. I know IBM will be chugging at breakneck speed making these things, but I fear that Apple will, nontheless, give us single processor systems. From what I've read, my understanding is that the 1.8Ghz 970 is roughly the performance of a 2.8Ghz P4; SPEC FP for the 970 at 1.8Ghz is about 1050 and about 1040-1060 for the 2.8Ghz P4.
If the 970 hit the market in PowerMacs tomorrow, I'd be happy with a single processor, but we're talking Q3, hopefully. The 970 will perform phenomenally in comparison to any flavor of G4, but with what Intel and AMD will put on the market in Q3, a single 1.8Ghz won't do, and 1.8Ghz is where the 970 will top out at for introduction. Dual 970 configurations (whether it be 1.4Ghzx2 or 1.8Ghzx2) for Q3 would put the Mac platform ahead of the rest of the consumer market in terms of performance. The chip is intended for SMP. However I have learned to have doubt coincide with my hopes when I think of future Apple hardware. To be honest it'll be a little scary if there aren't dual configs. Single 970s just won't compete. Dual 970 will shine. Quads in the future will be absolutely mind blowing.
<strong>duals sound like a lot of bandwidth to deal with with 2-processors, big leap for apple equipment</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well considering that Dual Procs in Powermacs have to "share" a 1.3Gbps FSB I don't think apple will be too concerned by having "only" 3.2Gbps for each PPC 970.
BUT...if 1.4 and 1.6 pad out the 'single' cpu line feared by others on these boards and myself...then this reduces the impact of the 970 for anything other than Mac users who've had to suffer the G4's lame performance.
I feel Apple have a chance to come back in style. Put the 'boot in' so to speak. Dual 970s will really boost the Towers appeal beyond the captive 'power'Mac audience.
68% of 3d folk want to switch or buy a Mac suite to pad out their pipeline. A dual 970 will really convince them. (Hmmm, I wonder...that 'poll', did they know something we don't...ie about what's coming down the Apple performance/cpu line...)
It really alerts x86 users, Unix, gamers...potential tower switchers...to Apple's performance levels. A dual 970 anything should brush past any x86 consumer machine. Especially on the top end. And if Apple keep the current prices of the towers then I'm sure we'll see the tower sales get a real boost from Mac waiters and x86 switchers alike.
I just hope Apple see the 'big picture' and don't do a 970 premium price hike for single 970s. It's been typical of Apple in the past when something is 'new' to hoik an annoying price spike on it. A shame. Still, we'll see if they are to learn their lesson on that one.
os10geek, PLEASE tell me you're joking about the 970 not being fit for consumer products! If I have to deal with G4's much longer I'm going to hurl. The best thing that could happen to Apple at this point is Moto ceasing to exist. This way they could move on and never have to worry about working with such an absolutely horrible company like Moto again. As for the 970, put them in every single computer Apple has to offer. What are you afraid of? That Apple might have the most powerful products on the planet...even the low end models? I'll take that reputation any day. The 970 is the future, and the G3 / G4 is the past. I'd rather see us move forward rather than backward...or even worse, stall out. We'll have the 970 for a year or so and then the 980 will peek over the horizon as the Power5 chip ramps up. We can all see things going this way and IBM doesn't at all blush about it. IBM wants to leave Intel in it's dust. This isn't a deep dark secret. So lets leave the G3 and G4 behind, and promptly migrate all Apple offerrings to the 970. That way the 970 can become the new G3 in a year or two's timeframe. Now that would not only rock, but it would force people to remember the days when Apple computers actually were faster than anything out there. Why not do that again. I bet Steve's ego would just love to be able to gloat like that and no G3 or G4 will make that happen, regardless of the speed bumps. Hail, Hail the 970!
The 970 will spread through Apple's products in a similar, but slightly different way than the G4. What the G4 did: First it was in the top of the line desktop. Then in the Pro Portable. Then in the Consumer Desktop, and we are still waiting for it to make it into the consumer portable. Same thing happened with DDR: First in the Pro Desktop, then in the Pro Laptop, and then into the iMac. Still not in the iBook. And with the G3: First in Pro deskto, then in pro laptop, then in the iMac, and finally in the iBook. The 970 will be in the xServe first, then the Powermac, then the Powerbook, then *maybe* in the consumer machines.
NO it will be in the PowerMac first, they need it more than the Xserve. Untill of couple of months ago many of the Xserve's competitors still used P3's! The Xserve market doesn't NEED the fastest chips, already they don't have the fastest: DP1.33 Xserve vs DP1.42 PMac. PM's WILL be the first 64 bit Macs. Guaranteed.
<strong> That way the 970 can become the new G3 in a year or two's timeframe. </strong><hr></blockquote>
when you started your reply on os10geek i was afraid you would be over optimistic about your timeframe of 970's in apple's consumer line but i think your quit right with this timeframe.
although i'll only believe in these 970's to arrive in the pm when i hear sj say that this is the year of the ppc970.
[quote] 68% of Workstation Buyers Plan to buy Macs in 2003
Leonard Teo, Tuesday, 18 February 2003
68% of workstation buyers plan on buying an Apple Macintosh in 2003. That's according to a study done by independent market research company TrendWatch. The TrendWatch Visual Effects/Dynamic Media Report states that 60% of studios plan on buying one or more workstations this year. 68% of these companies said they planned on buying a Mac and half said they plan to buy PC's.
The TrendWatch Visual Effects/Dynamic Media Report, published twice per year, surveys owners and executives of more than 5000 establishments in this U.S. visual effects/dynamic media markets: feature film production companies, TV/commercial production companies, corporate/industrial film and video companies, visual effects studios, animation studios, post production facilities, recording/mixing studios, and film/titling services.
For more information about TrendWatch, please visit their website at <a href="http://www.trendwatch.com."; target="_blank">www.trendwatch.com.</a>
<hr></blockquote>
<img src="graemlins/cancer.gif" border="0" alt="[cancer]" /> That's alot of markets!
Lemon Bon Bon
[quote] Your humor, not the G4, makes me hurl, Lemon Bon Bon. <hr></blockquote>
A natural talent.
(I must be in with a shout for the most annoying Appleinsider poster in the annual Appleinsider Member of the Year awards!)
Since this thread started out speculating on the contents of the new 970 machine I'll throw this late reply into the mix:
Apple will not include a GeForce FX in their line (except as a possible alterntive). They like quiet computers. The GF FX has a vacuum cleaner attached to it for cooling! According to reviewers it is LOUD!
Besides, the Radeon 9700 is on par with it (see review of GF FX on <a href="http://www.anandtech.com)" target="_blank">www.anandtech.com)</a> and the R350 is due out soon - perhaps by summer. It will be faster than the GF FX and much quieter.
<strong>I have an uneasy feeling Apple will do as Fran suggests. 'One more...' G4 upgrade at 1.67 mhz or something daft this Summer with the 970 next Jan'.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Comments
<strong>Didn't Steve say a while ago that Apple wouldn't change processors until OSX is finished? I only hope that 10.3 would be considered done. That combined with a "year of the notebook" slogan, I would bet a 2004 roll out.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Positive he meant architecture or platform or whatever, as in x86... not processors. The 970 should be transparent as far as coding requirements. It is evolutionary in PPC development.. though a big leap in ability still fundamentally similar.
<strong>The pro desktop specs are here. In immense detail. You're welcome.
<a href="http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/redpapers/pdfs/redp0195.pdf"; target="_blank">Specs</a></strong><hr></blockquote>
This isn't the 970, this is the POWER4+. Not the same thing. The IBM machines have massive memory subsystems which cost way too much to appear in Apple machines.
I'm a little nervous about seeing dual 970s in the introduction. I know IBM will be chugging at breakneck speed making these things, but I fear that Apple will, nontheless, give us single processor systems. From what I've read, my understanding is that the 1.8Ghz 970 is roughly the performance of a 2.8Ghz P4; SPEC FP for the 970 at 1.8Ghz is about 1050 and about 1040-1060 for the 2.8Ghz P4.
If the 970 hit the market in PowerMacs tomorrow, I'd be happy with a single processor, but we're talking Q3, hopefully. The 970 will perform phenomenally in comparison to any flavor of G4, but with what Intel and AMD will put on the market in Q3, a single 1.8Ghz won't do, and 1.8Ghz is where the 970 will top out at for introduction. Dual 970 configurations (whether it be 1.4Ghzx2 or 1.8Ghzx2) for Q3 would put the Mac platform ahead of the rest of the consumer market in terms of performance. The chip is intended for SMP. However I have learned to have doubt coincide with my hopes when I think of future Apple hardware. To be honest it'll be a little scary if there aren't dual configs. Single 970s just won't compete. Dual 970 will shine. Quads in the future will be absolutely mind blowing.
<strong>duals sound like a lot of bandwidth to deal with with 2-processors, big leap for apple equipment</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well considering that Dual Procs in Powermacs have to "share" a 1.3Gbps FSB I don't think apple will be too concerned by having "only" 3.2Gbps for each PPC 970.
BUT...if 1.4 and 1.6 pad out the 'single' cpu line feared by others on these boards and myself...then this reduces the impact of the 970 for anything other than Mac users who've had to suffer the G4's lame performance.
I feel Apple have a chance to come back in style. Put the 'boot in' so to speak. Dual 970s will really boost the Towers appeal beyond the captive 'power'Mac audience.
68% of 3d folk want to switch or buy a Mac suite to pad out their pipeline. A dual 970 will really convince them. (Hmmm, I wonder...that 'poll', did they know something we don't...ie about what's coming down the Apple performance/cpu line...)
It really alerts x86 users, Unix, gamers...potential tower switchers...to Apple's performance levels. A dual 970 anything should brush past any x86 consumer machine. Especially on the top end. And if Apple keep the current prices of the towers then I'm sure we'll see the tower sales get a real boost from Mac waiters and x86 switchers alike.
I just hope Apple see the 'big picture' and don't do a 970 premium price hike for single 970s. It's been typical of Apple in the past when something is 'new' to hoik an annoying price spike on it. A shame. Still, we'll see if they are to learn their lesson on that one.
Lemon Bon Bon
[ 02-22-2003: Message edited by: Lemon Bon Bon ]</p>
[quote] Yeah, that's 12 inches of power in my lap baby!
<hr></blockquote>
I'm glad she's enjoying it! <img src="graemlins/cancer.gif" border="0" alt="[cancer]" />
Lemon Bon Bon
<strong> That way the 970 can become the new G3 in a year or two's timeframe. </strong><hr></blockquote>
when you started your reply on os10geek i was afraid you would be over optimistic about your timeframe of 970's in apple's consumer line but i think your quit right with this timeframe.
although i'll only believe in these 970's to arrive in the pm when i hear sj say that this is the year of the ppc970.
Leonard Teo, Tuesday, 18 February 2003
68% of workstation buyers plan on buying an Apple Macintosh in 2003. That's according to a study done by independent market research company TrendWatch. The TrendWatch Visual Effects/Dynamic Media Report states that 60% of studios plan on buying one or more workstations this year. 68% of these companies said they planned on buying a Mac and half said they plan to buy PC's.
The TrendWatch Visual Effects/Dynamic Media Report, published twice per year, surveys owners and executives of more than 5000 establishments in this U.S. visual effects/dynamic media markets: feature film production companies, TV/commercial production companies, corporate/industrial film and video companies, visual effects studios, animation studios, post production facilities, recording/mixing studios, and film/titling services.
For more information about TrendWatch, please visit their website at <a href="http://www.trendwatch.com."; target="_blank">www.trendwatch.com.</a>
<hr></blockquote>
<img src="graemlins/cancer.gif" border="0" alt="[cancer]" /> That's alot of markets!
Lemon Bon Bon
[quote] Your humor, not the G4, makes me hurl, Lemon Bon Bon. <hr></blockquote>
A natural talent.
(I must be in with a shout for the most annoying Appleinsider poster in the annual Appleinsider Member of the Year awards!)
[ 02-22-2003: Message edited by: Lemon Bon Bon ]
[ 02-22-2003: Message edited by: Lemon Bon Bon ]</p>
<strong>Look, Apple, I've bought the damn table it's going to sit under... Act of faith or what?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Very - what makes you think their new case design will match your glass table?
Apple will not include a GeForce FX in their line (except as a possible alterntive). They like quiet computers. The GF FX has a vacuum cleaner attached to it for cooling! According to reviewers it is LOUD!
Besides, the Radeon 9700 is on par with it (see review of GF FX on <a href="http://www.anandtech.com)" target="_blank">www.anandtech.com)</a> and the R350 is due out soon - perhaps by summer. It will be faster than the GF FX and much quieter.
MM
<strong>keep on your pants kids: next pro desktop won't have a ppc 970 in it. It will still have another rev G4 processor.
You and I have to wait a revision longer to buy us a nice new pm (powermac not private message)</strong><hr></blockquote>
that's a curious thing to say (and something I disagree with, unless unforseen problems are run into during production).
<strong>I have an uneasy feeling Apple will do as Fran suggests. 'One more...' G4 upgrade at 1.67 mhz or something daft this Summer with the 970 next Jan'.</strong><hr></blockquote>
don't worry, be happy.