I don't know about others, but I think the costs of upgrading the OS X every year (or so) are easily justifiable, simply through the often forgotten aspects of the OS - the applications! Sure, some upgrades may be available to older OS owners, but not major developments.
Apple needs to fund the development of its integrated apps - iCal, address book, font book, calculator (the new one specifically), mail, ichat, isync etc - somehow. Yes, some of these are included/available freely with other OS's (Windows), but not to the extent that Apple provides them - commerical free and comprehensive enough for most users.
I can recall many occasions when I have been using a Windows machines and gone searching for a decent calendar application - if there is ever one, it's been purchased by the computer owner.
Plus, I guess this has been mentioned, but I understand from what I have read that the majority of Tiger's improvements are under the hood - coredata, etc - which I guess makes it a more signficant improvement that most seem to think it is. I admit the surface improvements don't look groundbreaking (although I am looking forward to Spotlight and Automator) but I guess Apple felt compelled to include some eye candy (Dashboard) to convince to masses to upgrade.
Actually I kind of got the impression that this Thurrot character is a Mac fan. Most of his stories are Apple related, wouldn?t a Windows guy talk more about Microsoft. Anyway I think it's like that little boy who pulls at the freckled girls hair in the playground. He secretly loves her but doesn?t want his friends to know so he mean.
Actually I kind of got the impression that this Thurrot character is a Mac fan. Most of his stories are Apple related, wouldn?t a Windows guy talk more about Microsoft. Anyway I think it's like that little boy who pulls at the freckled girls hair in the playground. He secretly loves her but doesn?t want his friends to know so he mean.
ROFLMAO i love freckly red-headed gir--- um i mean women... actually brown and blonde-haired ladies are nice too...
re:MetaData and NebagaKid
you have a point, but old habits die hard. i still sometimes make sure all my files have a 3-letter extension, because *gasp* otherwise the computer won't know what to do with it..! and it is tough for me to use spaces instead of underscores in most of my file and folder names. (well ftp is partly to blame for that)
you have a point, but old habits die hard. i still sometimes make sure all my files have a 3-letter extension, because *gasp* otherwise the computer won't know what to do with it..! and it is tough for me to use spaces instead of underscores in most of my file and folder names. (well ftp is partly to blame for that)
Old habits do die hard, true, but for me at least, unless I am preparing something for the web, I give it a really long descriptive name. In the iWork apps, there is a panel to input metadata information. For the Office apps, Microsoft already (eerily) does it for you. You can input metadata, and it is a wonderful thing to do! It can only improve your life.
I agree, but that does not mean that people cannot do both. Save it to the folder you want, and then use Spotlight. Spotlight is incredibly fast and responsive. I am sure it will change the way people use their computers
WindowsXP Pro shipped in October of 2001 for $200 (home for $150). Microsoft home users won't have to pay for another Windows release until 2006.
In that same time, a Mac user will have paid ~$500+ to keep their Mac in the latest OS release.
Would you rather be $500 poorer with a secure OS; or cash in your pocket and no security, lots of headaches, and a crappy future with lots of already empty promises ahead of you?
Would you rather be $500 poorer with a secure OS; or cash in your pocket and no security, lots of headaches, and a crappy future with lots of already empty promises ahead of you?
I've been running XP since before its release (Whistler beta tester, baby) and I have never had a virus or any real piece of spyware.
The only bad thing that happened was someone on this board (Brad THE REVOLUTIONARY, if I remember correctly) posted some malicious code meant to crash all XP machines. That was 2002ish.
So I'd rather be $300 in the black with a secure OS with no security headaches. But then again, I make token efforts to make sure my machine is secure (password protected account, a handful of completely free security apps).
As far as crappy future, more meaningless rhetoric.
As far as crappy future, more meaningless rhetoric.
No, not at all. When will Longhorn be released? Who knows. What definite features will it include? Some could be trimmed at any moment. Win FS already has...
I could continue but I won't.
Spyware is just a matter of time when the OS hit's the shelves.
No, not at all. When will Longhorn be released? Who knows. What definite features will it include? Some could be trimmed at any moment. Win FS already has...
Longhorn will be released some time next year.
It could include zero new features and still not qualify as "crappy".
Apple's upgrades are too expensive and so is anything else targeted at existing mac users. I can't remember the last time Apple showed the slightest bit of appreciation to its insanely loyal users. But they don't have to, they constantly make the profits, and I guess that's the whole thing.
I wouldn't call Paul an idiot, exactly -- just lazy -- but his blend of fair and downright bizarro criticism is incredibly frustrating.
His Tiger review is littered with misinformation. He accuses Apple of "breaking their promise that every other OS release would be free" (wha?? what 'promise'?), implies Exposé is some kind of exotic feature that can only be invoked by some obscure function key (of course, it can be mapped + used via keyboard, screen corners, or mouse buttons -- a big difference), fails to even mention Dashboard's eye-candy (while you just know he's going to go gaga over the glitzy effects in Longhorn), completely leaves out *any* mention, let alone discussion, of Automator (which is a big deal, IMO), CoreImage + CoreVideo (another big deal), and worst of all, repeatedly derides Tiger as a "minor update."
And comparing Tiger to a service pack, XP SP2, and demanding it should *free*? Laughable -- the comparison is flat-out absurd, never mind apples and oranges. (And yes, I've used both Tiger, briefly, and XP SP2.)
Now, is Tiger the REVOLUTIONARY update Apple wants us to think? For some, maybe, but not quite -- I'd call Apple's OS X updates "semi-major." A few major features (Spotlight esp.), and a *lot* of small but very welcome enhancements and features. And is Tiger too expensive? Well, *I* think so -- it shouldn't really be more than $100. But you can find Tiger for that much if you do even the slightest google.
There's a decent review in there somewhere, but it's clouded by his either intentional or unintentionally dimissive, rah-rah-Windows agenda.
Congrats, groverat, someone took the time to set up Windows XP correctly. Too bad that's not done in most houesholds or out of the box.
Also, if you think Tiger is google and Konfab, you're deliberately ignoring a lot of stuff to be -- what? -- an instigator?
Also, it just doesn't make sense to say that MS users pay less for Windows because Windows versions don't come out as often. First, no one is making Mac users pay for the latest thing, and it's not forced by current software. Second, if MS were able to publish major new versions often enough, don't you think they would? (That's rhetorical.) Third, considering that one major upgrade of OS X is $130 and one major upgrade of Windows is $200 for the uncripplware version, isn't that really the apple-to-apple comparison?
Also, if you're looking for "original" ideas to be something out of the blue with no precedent, as I am so completely fucking sick of people doing, you;re going to be looking for a long, long time. I hate it when people get into a rheotrical debate about constitutes "original" or "innovative" by raising the bar to some impossible standard, like these things come down from heaven riding a lightning bolt. Everything is derivative of some existing need, problem or solution can can be imporved or reconsidered. Everything. If your idea of original is a solution looking for a problem, then the only true original ideas are pretty damn useless anyway.
Why do people always stoop to the level of Thurott in these discussions?
Apple's upgrades are too expensive and so is anything else targeted at existing mac users. I can't remember the last time Apple showed the slightest bit of appreciation to its insanely loyal users. But they don't have to, they constantly make the profits, and I guess that's the whole thing.
Logic Pro 7.1 upgrade. New features and 300MB of updates. $20
Final Cut Pro HD- Free upgrade which supported HD codecs from Panny and more features.
Apple does appreciate and bypass profits. In fact they still don't serialize the OS meaning that they are losing MILLIONS on OS upgrades. The Family Pack is strictly for those with a conscious.
I don't know what's worse...Apple charging money or this Apple User RDF about how "loyal" they are. PC people could say the same. You're loyal to "your" own needs. If Apple didn't give you what you want then you'd look elsewhere.
Thurrot has the amazing ability to simply Apple's best technology and overhype(task based interfaces anyone?) Microsofts basic stuff. Sobeit. I'll continue to use both platforms but I see myself enjoying Mac OS X much more than windows.
The time, effort and productivity that is wasted using Windows makes the $130 for Mac OS X look like a steal.
Well, 'steal' may be a little strong, but... groverat, w/r/t your argument that the ever-delayed Longhorn saves you money... C'mon. Would you rather have the option of paying to upgrade every 18 months or so -- you can always skip an upgrade or two if you don't feel it's worth it -- or *have* to wait 5+ years for the things you want? No contest -- not in my book.
Comments
Apple needs to fund the development of its integrated apps - iCal, address book, font book, calculator (the new one specifically), mail, ichat, isync etc - somehow. Yes, some of these are included/available freely with other OS's (Windows), but not to the extent that Apple provides them - commerical free and comprehensive enough for most users.
I can recall many occasions when I have been using a Windows machines and gone searching for a decent calendar application - if there is ever one, it's been purchased by the computer owner.
Plus, I guess this has been mentioned, but I understand from what I have read that the majority of Tiger's improvements are under the hood - coredata, etc - which I guess makes it a more signficant improvement that most seem to think it is. I admit the surface improvements don't look groundbreaking (although I am looking forward to Spotlight and Automator) but I guess Apple felt compelled to include some eye candy (Dashboard) to convince to masses to upgrade.
Plus he is a known pro-Windows guy. I don't see what all the fuss is about.
Originally posted by Relic
Actually I kind of got the impression that this Thurrot character is a Mac fan. Most of his stories are Apple related, wouldn?t a Windows guy talk more about Microsoft. Anyway I think it's like that little boy who pulls at the freckled girls hair in the playground. He secretly loves her but doesn?t want his friends to know so he mean.
ROFLMAO
re:MetaData and NebagaKid
you have a point, but old habits die hard. i still sometimes make sure all my files have a 3-letter extension, because *gasp* otherwise the computer won't know what to do with it..!
Originally posted by sunilraman
re:MetaData and NebagaKid
you have a point, but old habits die hard. i still sometimes make sure all my files have a 3-letter extension, because *gasp* otherwise the computer won't know what to do with it..!
Old habits do die hard, true, but for me at least, unless I am preparing something for the web, I give it a really long descriptive name. In the iWork apps, there is a panel to input metadata information. For the Office apps, Microsoft already (eerily) does it for you. You can input metadata, and it is a wonderful thing to do! It can only improve your life.
I agree, but that does not mean that people cannot do both. Save it to the folder you want, and then use Spotlight. Spotlight is incredibly fast and responsive. I am sure it will change the way people use their computers
Originally posted by groverat
WindowsXP Pro shipped in October of 2001 for $200 (home for $150). Microsoft home users won't have to pay for another Windows release until 2006.
In that same time, a Mac user will have paid ~$500+ to keep their Mac in the latest OS release.
Would you rather be $500 poorer with a secure OS; or cash in your pocket and no security, lots of headaches, and a crappy future with lots of already empty promises ahead of you?
Originally posted by aplnub
Would you rather be $500 poorer with a secure OS; or cash in your pocket and no security, lots of headaches, and a crappy future with lots of already empty promises ahead of you?
I've been running XP since before its release (Whistler beta tester, baby) and I have never had a virus or any real piece of spyware.
The only bad thing that happened was someone on this board (Brad THE REVOLUTIONARY, if I remember correctly) posted some malicious code meant to crash all XP machines. That was 2002ish.
So I'd rather be $300 in the black with a secure OS with no security headaches. But then again, I make token efforts to make sure my machine is secure (password protected account, a handful of completely free security apps).
As far as crappy future, more meaningless rhetoric.
Originally posted by groverat
As far as crappy future, more meaningless rhetoric.
No, not at all. When will Longhorn be released? Who knows. What definite features will it include? Some could be trimmed at any moment. Win FS already has...
I could continue but I won't.
Spyware is just a matter of time when the OS hit's the shelves.
Originally posted by aplnub
No, not at all. When will Longhorn be released? Who knows. What definite features will it include? Some could be trimmed at any moment. Win FS already has...
Longhorn will be released some time next year.
It could include zero new features and still not qualify as "crappy".
WinFS is delayed... so what?
Do you actually use Windows?
Originally posted by groverat
Do you actually use Windows?
Do you actually want someone to answer that?
Originally posted by groverat
I've been running XP since before its release (Whistler beta tester, baby) and I have never had a virus or any real piece of spyware.
I believe you!
Apple's upgrades are too expensive and so is anything else targeted at existing mac users. I can't remember the last time Apple showed the slightest bit of appreciation to its insanely loyal users. But they don't have to, they constantly make the profits, and I guess that's the whole thing.
His Tiger review is littered with misinformation. He accuses Apple of "breaking their promise that every other OS release would be free" (wha?? what 'promise'?), implies Exposé is some kind of exotic feature that can only be invoked by some obscure function key (of course, it can be mapped + used via keyboard, screen corners, or mouse buttons -- a big difference), fails to even mention Dashboard's eye-candy (while you just know he's going to go gaga over the glitzy effects in Longhorn), completely leaves out *any* mention, let alone discussion, of Automator (which is a big deal, IMO), CoreImage + CoreVideo (another big deal), and worst of all, repeatedly derides Tiger as a "minor update."
And comparing Tiger to a service pack, XP SP2, and demanding it should *free*? Laughable -- the comparison is flat-out absurd, never mind apples and oranges. (And yes, I've used both Tiger, briefly, and XP SP2.)
Now, is Tiger the REVOLUTIONARY update Apple wants us to think? For some, maybe, but not quite -- I'd call Apple's OS X updates "semi-major." A few major features (Spotlight esp.), and a *lot* of small but very welcome enhancements and features. And is Tiger too expensive? Well, *I* think so -- it shouldn't really be more than $100. But you can find Tiger for that much if you do even the slightest google.
There's a decent review in there somewhere, but it's clouded by his either intentional or unintentionally dimissive, rah-rah-Windows agenda.
Also, if you think Tiger is google and Konfab, you're deliberately ignoring a lot of stuff to be -- what? -- an instigator?
Also, it just doesn't make sense to say that MS users pay less for Windows because Windows versions don't come out as often. First, no one is making Mac users pay for the latest thing, and it's not forced by current software. Second, if MS were able to publish major new versions often enough, don't you think they would? (That's rhetorical.) Third, considering that one major upgrade of OS X is $130 and one major upgrade of Windows is $200 for the uncripplware version, isn't that really the apple-to-apple comparison?
Also, if you're looking for "original" ideas to be something out of the blue with no precedent, as I am so completely fucking sick of people doing, you;re going to be looking for a long, long time. I hate it when people get into a rheotrical debate about constitutes "original" or "innovative" by raising the bar to some impossible standard, like these things come down from heaven riding a lightning bolt. Everything is derivative of some existing need, problem or solution can can be imporved or reconsidered. Everything. If your idea of original is a solution looking for a problem, then the only true original ideas are pretty damn useless anyway.
Why do people always stoop to the level of Thurott in these discussions?
Originally posted by progmac
wow, $500, i hadn't thought of it like that.
Apple's upgrades are too expensive and so is anything else targeted at existing mac users. I can't remember the last time Apple showed the slightest bit of appreciation to its insanely loyal users. But they don't have to, they constantly make the profits, and I guess that's the whole thing.
Logic Pro 7.1 upgrade. New features and 300MB of updates. $20
Final Cut Pro HD- Free upgrade which supported HD codecs from Panny and more features.
Apple does appreciate and bypass profits. In fact they still don't serialize the OS meaning that they are losing MILLIONS on OS upgrades. The Family Pack is strictly for those with a conscious.
I don't know what's worse...Apple charging money or this Apple User RDF about how "loyal" they are. PC people could say the same. You're loyal to "your" own needs. If Apple didn't give you what you want then you'd look elsewhere.
Thurrot has the amazing ability to simply Apple's best technology and overhype(task based interfaces anyone?) Microsofts basic stuff. Sobeit. I'll continue to use both platforms but I see myself enjoying Mac OS X much more than windows.
Congrats, groverat, someone took the time to set up Windows XP correctly. Too bad that's not done in most houesholds or out of the box.
You are very right.
Also, if you think Tiger is google and Konfab, you're deliberately ignoring a lot of stuff to be -- what? -- an instigator?
It?s an oversimplification, but again, I was getting at the idea of Jobs? accusation of ?copying?.
First, no one is making Mac users pay for the latest thing, and it's not forced by current software.
Untrue. Lots of software comes out that requires one of the various point upgrades.
lso, if you're looking for "original" ideas to be something out of the blue with no precedent, as I am so completely fucking sick of people doing
Direct your outrage to the arrogant assclown on the Apple campus in Cupertino.
Apple damn near has a deadlock of bleating ceaselessly about how wonderfully original and innovative they are.
Originally posted by groverat
Direct your outrage to the arrogant assclown on the Apple campus in Cupertino.
Originally posted by DanMacMan
The time, effort and productivity that is wasted using Windows makes the $130 for Mac OS X look like a steal.
Well, 'steal' may be a little strong, but... groverat, w/r/t your argument that the ever-delayed Longhorn saves you money...