If dual core are around the corner doesn't it make sense for apple to just implement a slight upgrade to the power mac range rather than make some big announcement, I've been waiting to buy a new machine for some time now and for someone like me who is using an old G4 these machines are impressive, I don't need to buy today so I can wait for WWDC and see what happens.. at the end of the day if they hyped up these machines and then replaced them with dual core with all the bells and whistles in a couple of months time I'd be pissed....
If dual core are around the corner doesn't it make sense for apple to just implement a slight upgrade to the power mac range rather than make some big announcement, I've been waiting to buy a new machine for some time now and for someone like me who is using an old G4 these machines are impressive, I don't need to buy today so I can wait for WWDC and see what happens.. at the end of the day if they hyped up these machines and then replaced them with dual core with all the bells and whistles in a couple of months time I'd be pissed....
If IBM doesn't have dual core chips under production, then what exactly is Apple supposed to do? I HIGHLY doubt any PM updates will come out of WWDC. It wouldn't make sense for them to update a product twice in the span of several months.
You n00bs do realize that the operating frequency of AMD chips maxes out at 2.4ghz, right?
They max out @ 2.6Ghz, not 2.4Ghz.
But anywho, speculation below:
If you've taken a look at prices for the DC Athlons and Opterons you've propably noticed that they are quite on the pricy side atm.The price for a dual dual core 2.2Ghz Opteron system from Levono/IBM will set you back ~$5000US when it's released (irc) in the middle of June, so all's "not lost" yet for Apple in the prefomance race.
But, the price will not stay up like that forever though. Once the fabbing capacety goes up for dual core, the duals will phase out the singles more or less, and at the same price points as their older single core counterparts.
<speculation>What Apple could do is release a high end dual dualcore setup (an xMac) in the same price bracket as the Levono/IBM offerings in June, and then let the Power Mac and xMac gravitate downwards in the pricing structure as prices for dual core CPUs fall. This way Apple will have a tower in the iMac bracket, broadening the market offering in that segment by offering power and expandabillety in place of convenience and formfactor. The xMac would take the pricepoint of the current Power Mac. </speculation>
If IBM doesn't have dual core chips under production, then what exactly is Apple supposed to do? I HIGHLY doubt any PM updates will come out of WWDC. It wouldn't make sense for them to update a product twice in the span of several months.
So in that case should I buy now? When realistically are the rumoured dual core macs going to ship?
A very nice price drop for those that want a 30" display to go along with their PM - the 30" works with the 2.7 PM. That's a $500+ price drop for those lucky enough to be able to buy one.
A very nice price drop for those that want a 30" display to go along with their PM - the 30" works with the 2.7 PM. That's a $500+ price drop for those lucky enough to be able to buy one.
that was well over due though. You can't sell computers that don't work with your hardware out-the-box.
If dual core are around the corner doesn't it make sense for apple to just implement a slight upgrade to the power mac range rather than make some big announcement, I've been waiting to buy a new machine for some time now and for someone like me who is using an old G4 these machines are impressive, I don't need to buy today so I can wait for WWDC and see what happens.. at the end of the day if they hyped up these machines and then replaced them with dual core with all the bells and whistles in a couple of months time I'd be pissed....
very unlikely dude, if you're up for it, a dual 2.5ghz g5 with 1gb of RAM will be bloody sweet...! compared to your old G4... seriously...
about the GPU: if you are unhappy with the GPU and are a serious gamer, get the nVidia ultra 5800 for $500 more when ordering
otherwise also Ati's got some mac offerings, see below, if you want more power than the 9600/9650 in the new g5s. you'll have to sell/ebay/etc the 9600/9650 in the g5 though if you want upgrade the GPU after you receive the g5 system...
If it is listed explicitly in IBM documents, then it is a real 2.7 GHz chip. Otherwise, the possibility that Apple overclocked the 2.5 Ghz chips cannot be excluded (look also at the availability: 1-2 days).
I really don't understand this sentiment whatsoever. Overclocking is a fairly precise term describing what a customer can do to a processor, after it is bought. Whatever CPU is shipped in the Power Mac is officially rated, defined by default, to be a CPU capable of running at X.Y clock rate, and Apple advertizes it as such. I can gaurantee you (meaning I'm very confident) that every single 2.7 GHz CPU shipped in the new top-end Power Mac will be stamped with a part indentifier indicating its a 2.7 GHz part. Otherwise, we are talking lawsuits.
The immediately availability would indicate the part yield is good. Apple could and should have done this 2 months ago. If the part yield is bad, then the availability would be on the order of weeks because of low inventories.
If you've taken a look at prices for the DC Athlons and Opterons you've propably noticed that they are quite on the pricy side atm.The price for a dual dual core 2.2Ghz Opteron system from Levono/IBM will set you back ~$5000US when it's released (irc) in the middle of June, so all's "not lost" yet for Apple in the prefomance race.
Yes, Apple's bang-for-the-buck is still competitive. On the Intel side, Dell offers a dual-core Pentium 840, 3.2 GHz dual core w/800 MHz FSB and a GB of RAM for ~3000$. The dual 2.3 G5 should be very competitive with this machine. The 2.7 GHz G5 should outperform it for the most part.
The big problem of course is the lack of a pro 3D card (Quadro card) and SATA RAID. But on CPU performance it should be competitive.
Quote:
What Apple could do is release a high end dual dualcore setup (an xMac) in the same price bracket as the Levono/IBM offerings in June, and then let the Power Mac and xMac gravitate downwards in the pricing structure as prices for dual core CPUs fall.
I don't really see the point of playing in the $5000 space. They can just wait until Fall and deliver dual-core machines. They need to make that low end, unchanged single 1.8 GHz a dual 1.6, but they want to protect the 2+ GHz machines too much. Jobs just really need to subvert his ego and have Apple release a true 3-tiered desktop lineup with equal performance/price across the range.
So, basically they got a little speed bump, added more RAM and a bigger hard drive, and new dual layer DVD burner. Nothing at all on the cooling side or motherboard redesign/enhancement?
I'm sure the 2.7GHz machines will sell to those who make $$$ with their Macs and every MHz of speed cuts number crunching time, but otherwise, I suspect most everyone else who wanted a PowerMac bought one two years ago. From a fence sitter's point of view, there is no reason to buy one of these machines.
I cut Apple some slack back when IBM hit the GHz wall and Apple had to put in that radiator to keep things cool. But Apple has now had over a year to move on to PCIe - which CoreImage and CoreVideo will benefit from (if I'm not mistaken) and put in some other goodies on the hardware side. Sure, TODAY, these are pretty powerful machines, but in a year or two, when PCIe is REALLY replacing AGP these machines will be sad. IMHO, most people don't buy a machine for today, they buy it for the expected lifetime, probably 2-3 years. In that time, these machines will be eclipsed. Sad.
- Jasen.
Don't worry Jasen. At least we'll never have to worry about any iPod line ever becoming outdated.
Comments
Originally posted by PB
Likely. I expect Apple will leave Tiger alone in the scene for at least one week. After that on can reasonably expect updates.
can we expect reasonable updates too ?
Originally posted by MacCrazy
Also it's not Apple's fault but IBMs
Yes, because IBM held a gun to Job's head, and made him use their processors.
Originally posted by wilco
Yes, because IBM held a gun to Job's head, and made him use their processors.
And the alternative was to be still using Motorola!
If most of the lines get refreshed at the release of Tiger, wouldn't that be an even bigger incentive to buy a mac?
Originally posted by MacCrazy
And the alternative was to be still using Motorola!
Or to switch to AMD or Intel, which looks mighty tasty right now.
I think they should have made valiant attempts at somehow getting four processors in there.
Originally posted by paulerskine
If dual core are around the corner doesn't it make sense for apple to just implement a slight upgrade to the power mac range rather than make some big announcement, I've been waiting to buy a new machine for some time now and for someone like me who is using an old G4 these machines are impressive, I don't need to buy today so I can wait for WWDC and see what happens.. at the end of the day if they hyped up these machines and then replaced them with dual core with all the bells and whistles in a couple of months time I'd be pissed....
If IBM doesn't have dual core chips under production, then what exactly is Apple supposed to do? I HIGHLY doubt any PM updates will come out of WWDC. It wouldn't make sense for them to update a product twice in the span of several months.
Originally posted by g3pro
You n00bs do realize that the operating frequency of AMD chips maxes out at 2.4ghz, right?
They max out @ 2.6Ghz, not 2.4Ghz.
But anywho, speculation below:
If you've taken a look at prices for the DC Athlons and Opterons you've propably noticed that they are quite on the pricy side atm.The price for a dual dual core 2.2Ghz Opteron system from Levono/IBM will set you back ~$5000US when it's released (irc) in the middle of June, so all's "not lost" yet for Apple in the prefomance race.
But, the price will not stay up like that forever though. Once the fabbing capacety goes up for dual core, the duals will phase out the singles more or less, and at the same price points as their older single core counterparts.
<speculation>What Apple could do is release a high end dual dualcore setup (an xMac) in the same price bracket as the Levono/IBM offerings in June, and then let the Power Mac and xMac gravitate downwards in the pricing structure as prices for dual core CPUs fall. This way Apple will have a tower in the iMac bracket, broadening the market offering in that segment by offering power and expandabillety in place of convenience and formfactor. The xMac would take the pricepoint of the current Power Mac. </speculation>
Originally posted by bucci
If IBM doesn't have dual core chips under production, then what exactly is Apple supposed to do? I HIGHLY doubt any PM updates will come out of WWDC. It wouldn't make sense for them to update a product twice in the span of several months.
So in that case should I buy now? When realistically are the rumoured dual core macs going to ship?
Originally posted by g3pro
You n00bs do realize that the operating frequency of AMD chips maxes out at 2.4ghz, right?
If most of the lines get refreshed at the release of Tiger, wouldn't that be an even bigger incentive to buy a mac?
no you make them buy tiger and then woe them with a new machine!
Originally posted by paulerskine
So in that case should I buy now? When realistically are the rumoured dual core macs going to ship?
September would be my estimate - WWDC seems a bit soon.
Originally posted by MacCrazy
no you make them buy tiger and then woe them with a new machine!
Indeed. Those disappointed in this upgrade are woeful now. (I know you meant "wow them".)
Originally posted by kenaustus
A very nice price drop for those that want a 30" display to go along with their PM - the 30" works with the 2.7 PM. That's a $500+ price drop for those lucky enough to be able to buy one.
that was well over due though. You can't sell computers that don't work with your hardware out-the-box.
Originally posted by paulerskine
If dual core are around the corner doesn't it make sense for apple to just implement a slight upgrade to the power mac range rather than make some big announcement, I've been waiting to buy a new machine for some time now and for someone like me who is using an old G4 these machines are impressive, I don't need to buy today so I can wait for WWDC and see what happens.. at the end of the day if they hyped up these machines and then replaced them with dual core with all the bells and whistles in a couple of months time I'd be pissed....
very unlikely dude, if you're up for it, a dual 2.5ghz g5 with 1gb of RAM will be bloody sweet...! compared to your old G4... seriously...
about the GPU: if you are unhappy with the GPU and are a serious gamer, get the nVidia ultra 5800 for $500 more when ordering
otherwise also Ati's got some mac offerings, see below, if you want more power than the 9600/9650 in the new g5s. you'll have to sell/ebay/etc the 9600/9650 in the g5 though if you want upgrade the GPU after you receive the g5 system...
all the best
Originally posted by LudwigVan
Indeed. Those disappointed in this upgrade are woeful now. (I know you meant "wow them".)
actually i meant woo!
Originally posted by MacCrazy
actually i meant woo!
freudian slip ;-)
Originally posted by PB
If it is listed explicitly in IBM documents, then it is a real 2.7 GHz chip. Otherwise, the possibility that Apple overclocked the 2.5 Ghz chips cannot be excluded (look also at the availability: 1-2 days).
I really don't understand this sentiment whatsoever. Overclocking is a fairly precise term describing what a customer can do to a processor, after it is bought. Whatever CPU is shipped in the Power Mac is officially rated, defined by default, to be a CPU capable of running at X.Y clock rate, and Apple advertizes it as such. I can gaurantee you (meaning I'm very confident) that every single 2.7 GHz CPU shipped in the new top-end Power Mac will be stamped with a part indentifier indicating its a 2.7 GHz part. Otherwise, we are talking lawsuits.
The immediately availability would indicate the part yield is good. Apple could and should have done this 2 months ago. If the part yield is bad, then the availability would be on the order of weeks because of low inventories.
Originally posted by Eric_Z
If you've taken a look at prices for the DC Athlons and Opterons you've propably noticed that they are quite on the pricy side atm.The price for a dual dual core 2.2Ghz Opteron system from Levono/IBM will set you back ~$5000US when it's released (irc) in the middle of June, so all's "not lost" yet for Apple in the prefomance race.
Yes, Apple's bang-for-the-buck is still competitive. On the Intel side, Dell offers a dual-core Pentium 840, 3.2 GHz dual core w/800 MHz FSB and a GB of RAM for ~3000$. The dual 2.3 G5 should be very competitive with this machine. The 2.7 GHz G5 should outperform it for the most part.
The big problem of course is the lack of a pro 3D card (Quadro card) and SATA RAID. But on CPU performance it should be competitive.
What Apple could do is release a high end dual dualcore setup (an xMac) in the same price bracket as the Levono/IBM offerings in June, and then let the Power Mac and xMac gravitate downwards in the pricing structure as prices for dual core CPUs fall.
I don't really see the point of playing in the $5000 space. They can just wait until Fall and deliver dual-core machines. They need to make that low end, unchanged single 1.8 GHz a dual 1.6, but they want to protect the 2+ GHz machines too much. Jobs just really need to subvert his ego and have Apple release a true 3-tiered desktop lineup with equal performance/price across the range.
Originally posted by jasenj1
So, basically they got a little speed bump, added more RAM and a bigger hard drive, and new dual layer DVD burner. Nothing at all on the cooling side or motherboard redesign/enhancement?
I'm sure the 2.7GHz machines will sell to those who make $$$ with their Macs and every MHz of speed cuts number crunching time, but otherwise, I suspect most everyone else who wanted a PowerMac bought one two years ago. From a fence sitter's point of view, there is no reason to buy one of these machines.
I cut Apple some slack back when IBM hit the GHz wall and Apple had to put in that radiator to keep things cool. But Apple has now had over a year to move on to PCIe - which CoreImage and CoreVideo will benefit from (if I'm not mistaken) and put in some other goodies on the hardware side. Sure, TODAY, these are pretty powerful machines, but in a year or two, when PCIe is REALLY replacing AGP these machines will be sad. IMHO, most people don't buy a machine for today, they buy it for the expected lifetime, probably 2-3 years. In that time, these machines will be eclipsed. Sad.
- Jasen.
Don't worry Jasen. At least we'll never have to worry about any iPod line ever becoming outdated.