The updates aren't stellar but they aren't that bad. We can choose to be like PC people and revel in the specs at teh expense of actually getting stuff done or we can look at the current Powermacs as the further evolution of a stable platform.
The market has certainly changed but I'm not so sure customers have changed as well.
I really don't understand this sentiment whatsoever. Overclocking is a fairly precise term describing what a customer can do to a processor, after it is bought.
Overclocking is sometimes used by commercial system builders or component resellers to sell items at higher profit margins. By buying lower-value components, overclocking them, and selling on as higher value ones, the retailer is able to make a greater profit. In some cases an overclocked component is functionally identical to a factory-clocked one, especially if it was deliberately underrated by the manufacturer; however, it is generally considered dishonest if the customer is not told they are buying overclocked equipment. It is felt that because there is a risk of shortened component lifespan, the customer should at least be allowed the informed choice to use overclocked components or not.
That is why I say that, unless we find explicit reference on IBM's site about 2.7 GHz parts, Apple is overclocking the already available 2.5 GHz G5.
Yes, Apple's bang-for-the-buck is still competitive. On the Intel side, Dell offers a dual-core Pentium 840, 3.2 GHz dual core w/800 MHz FSB and a GB of RAM for ~3000$. The dual 2.3 G5 should be very competitive with this machine. The 2.7 GHz G5 should outperform it for the most part.
Meanwhile, the computers that MOST PEOPLE buy (white boxes) can have all that for $1,200..
This update, especially after AMD's dual core announcement, is a huge freakin joke.
Tiger will probably boost the speed more than this bump.
That is why I say that, unless we find explicit reference on IBM's site about 2.7 GHz parts, Apple is overclocking the already available 2.5 GHz G5.
This isn't correct PB for this reason. IBM doesn't sell the 970 chips through standard retail channels so they don't really have to put the most current information on the website.
Motorola was the same. I remember when people claimed the 1.42 was an overclocked processor until months later when Motorola finally put the information on the website.
The theory of companies overclocking shipping computers is kind of silly. If the chip can run reliably at a certain speed and maintains its warranty is it really overclocked?
The single 1.8ghz Powermac still has 256mb of RAM....not good..also, that means there is NO chance what so ever that to iBooks,Mac mini or eMac will be getting 512.
The single 1.8ghz Powermac still has 256mb of RAM....not good..also, that means there is NO chance what so ever that to iBooks,Mac mini or eMac will be getting 512.
I'm sure this computer is on the way out - there just waiting till the run out.
That is why I say that, unless we find explicit reference on IBM's site about 2.7 GHz parts, Apple is overclocking the already available 2.5 GHz G5.
I don't think this is the situation at all. If Apple doesn't explicitly say that the 2.7 GHz G5 use overclocked 2.5 GHz CPUs, it's going to be a lawsuit time, and they will lose. I don't see it anywhere in the machine specs. Those parts are 2.7 GHz parts, officially rated as such from IBM.
This sentiment is more conspiracy theory than reality.
This isn't correct PB for this reason. IBM doesn't sell the 970 chips through standard retail channels so they don't really have to put the most current information on the website.
I really hope I am wrong and you are right, otherwise this could potentially lead to bad things, for both sides, Apple and their customers.
Might be minor, but while you are all debating video cards, etc., did anyone notice that there is no modem listed for these?
Yeah, but come on there not exactly expensive or used very much these days. Apple act for price/customers wants. I expect the number of people who use a modem is very minimal.
Meanwhile, the computers that MOST PEOPLE buy (white boxes) can have all that for $1,200..
This update, especially after AMD's dual core announcement, is a huge freakin joke.
Oh, I agree the update was paltry after nearly a year of no update. They should have announced these during MWSF05, and they should introduce PCIe, dual-core Macs Summer 05, but I don't run Apple, so who knows what they want to do.
Isn't it a tiny exaggeration that one can get a dual-core white box for $1200? Maybe in the summer when the Pentium D comes out, but not now. I can't even find the chip on pricewatch. Saw a dual-core 1.8 GHz Opteron CPU for ~$900, pre-order for sometime in late May, but one can also buy a dual 1.8 G5 system for ~$1700 now too.
Might be minor, but while you are all debating video cards, etc., did anyone notice that there is no modem listed for these?
it is built-to-order option on the higher end g5s. because if you have a dual 2.7ghz g5 and you need a modem, well, for emergencies i understand, but otherwise, you've got broadband or in an office or otherwise you're an idiot.
I don't think this is the situation at all. If Apple doesn't explicitly say that the 2.7 GHz G5 use overclocked 2.5 GHz CPUs, it's going to be a lawsuit time, and they will lose. I don't see it anywhere in the machine specs. Those parts are 2.7 GHz parts, officially rated as such from IBM.
This sentiment is more conspiracy theory than reality.
[edit: grammer...]
i would have to agree, apple has had a very good history of rating a certain CPU at xxx mhz/ghz and it is very likely that they have underclocked in the past rather than overclocked, to avoid bad reputation, repeated servicing, handling heavy heavy use (especially by obsessive creative overnight types)
i've been living at 3degrees north latitude for the past several months and i don't always have airconditioning, just a fan. some days i'm just surprised my laptop doesn't just start smoking and/or melting. iBook g4 has an almost undetectable fan noise.... unless you are heavily encoding an mpeg4 in hot weather or something like that...
hey my 933mhz g4 in my iBook is probably under-clocked... now how to hack the firmware...
Yes, because IBM and Motorola are the only two companies that make processors.
A few years ago Apple moved from Motorola to IBM because they were doing the best. The Motorola's are still on 167MHz system bus! AMD and Intel aren't doing much better and switching to one of those processors isn't as straightforward as the software on the Mac is built for the PowerPC.
[B]very unlikely dude, if you're up for it, a dual 2.5ghz g5 with 1gb of RAM will be bloody sweet...! compared to your old G4... seriously...
about the GPU: if you are unhappy with the GPU and are a serious gamer, get the nVidia ultra 5800 for $500 more when ordering
otherwise also Ati's got some mac offerings, see below, if you want more power than the 9600/9650 in the new g5s. you'll have to sell/ebay/etc the 9600/9650 in the g5 though if you want upgrade the GPU after you receive the g5 system...
all the best
But all I'm reading is these new G5's aren't a massive step forward, so should I shell out now on old technology or wait, this box is going to earn me money for 3-4 years and as I don't need to buy today I could hold off and buy something in the summer which is cutting edge...
The single 1.8ghz Powermac still has 256mb of RAM....not good..also, that means there is NO chance what so ever that to iBooks,Mac mini or eMac will be getting 512.
Strangely though, the 1.8 may as well be discontinued. Maybe they are just shifting old stock or something, as there is no mention of thr 1.8GHz model at http://www.apple.com/powermac/
It is still for sale, and can be seen on the PowerMac specs page, but if you read the main PowerMac page, it is written as if the 1.8Ghz doesn't exist.
Very strange, it seems its days are numbered, so I don't think this has much impact on whether 512Mb is added to other Macs soon.
[/B]But all I'm reading is these new G5's aren't a massive step forward, so should I shell out now on old technology or wait, this box is going to earn me money for 3-4 years and as I don't need to buy today I could hold off and buy something in the summer which is cutting edge... [/B]
BUT will you be more productive for a few months if you don't wait. Or will you be more productive if you wait for a minor upgrade again which will last you 3-4 years.
Strangely though, the 1.8 may as well be discontinued. Maybe they are just shifting old stock or something, as there is no mention of thr 1.8GHz model at http://www.apple.com/powermac/
It is still for sale, and can be seen on the PowerMac specs page, but if you read the main PowerMac page, it is written as if the 1.8Ghz doesn't exist.
Very strange, it seems its days are numbered, so I don't think this has much impact on whether 512Mb is added to other Macs soon.
I wrote that earlier - it wasn't mentioned in the press release either. http://www.apple.com/pr
But all I'm reading is these new G5's aren't a massive step forward, so should I shell out now on old technology or wait, this box is going to earn me money for 3-4 years and as I don't need to buy today I could hold off and buy something in the summer which is cutting edge...
i understand your concerns, best thing i can advice for now is to have a look at macrumors.com buyers guide. you will see that it took almost a year for apple to update the powermac, so if they update again in 3-4 months it will be absolutely unprecedented in the powermac line.
you will have to assess the risks though in any case and decide what's best for your needs. remember in any case that with the powermac g5s just released, if you are looking at 3-4 years time horizon, remember GPU card, RAM, hard disks, are easily upgradable. also in the powermac G4 line there has emerged a strong trend of upgrades there as well which may continue through to the powermag g5 line
Comments
The market has certainly changed but I'm not so sure customers have changed as well.
Originally posted by THT
I really don't understand this sentiment whatsoever. Overclocking is a fairly precise term describing what a customer can do to a processor, after it is bought.
Not always:
Overclocking is sometimes used by commercial system builders or component resellers to sell items at higher profit margins. By buying lower-value components, overclocking them, and selling on as higher value ones, the retailer is able to make a greater profit. In some cases an overclocked component is functionally identical to a factory-clocked one, especially if it was deliberately underrated by the manufacturer; however, it is generally considered dishonest if the customer is not told they are buying overclocked equipment. It is felt that because there is a risk of shortened component lifespan, the customer should at least be allowed the informed choice to use overclocked components or not.
That is why I say that, unless we find explicit reference on IBM's site about 2.7 GHz parts, Apple is overclocking the already available 2.5 GHz G5.
Originally posted by THT
Yes, Apple's bang-for-the-buck is still competitive. On the Intel side, Dell offers a dual-core Pentium 840, 3.2 GHz dual core w/800 MHz FSB and a GB of RAM for ~3000$. The dual 2.3 G5 should be very competitive with this machine. The 2.7 GHz G5 should outperform it for the most part.
Meanwhile, the computers that MOST PEOPLE buy (white boxes) can have all that for $1,200..
This update, especially after AMD's dual core announcement, is a huge freakin joke.
Tiger will probably boost the speed more than this bump.
I'm glad I bought my 2.5 G5 when I did.
That is why I say that, unless we find explicit reference on IBM's site about 2.7 GHz parts, Apple is overclocking the already available 2.5 GHz G5.
This isn't correct PB for this reason. IBM doesn't sell the 970 chips through standard retail channels so they don't really have to put the most current information on the website.
Motorola was the same. I remember when people claimed the 1.42 was an overclocked processor until months later when Motorola finally put the information on the website.
The theory of companies overclocking shipping computers is kind of silly. If the chip can run reliably at a certain speed and maintains its warranty is it really overclocked?
Originally posted by xflare
The single 1.8ghz Powermac still has 256mb of RAM....not good..also, that means there is NO chance what so ever that to iBooks,Mac mini or eMac will be getting 512.
I'm sure this computer is on the way out - there just waiting till the run out.
Originally posted by PB
That is why I say that, unless we find explicit reference on IBM's site about 2.7 GHz parts, Apple is overclocking the already available 2.5 GHz G5.
I don't think this is the situation at all. If Apple doesn't explicitly say that the 2.7 GHz G5 use overclocked 2.5 GHz CPUs, it's going to be a lawsuit time, and they will lose. I don't see it anywhere in the machine specs. Those parts are 2.7 GHz parts, officially rated as such from IBM.
This sentiment is more conspiracy theory than reality.
[edit: grammer...]
Originally posted by hmurchison
This isn't correct PB for this reason. IBM doesn't sell the 970 chips through standard retail channels so they don't really have to put the most current information on the website.
I really hope I am wrong and you are right, otherwise this could potentially lead to bad things, for both sides, Apple and their customers.
Originally posted by clonenode
Might be minor, but while you are all debating video cards, etc., did anyone notice that there is no modem listed for these?
Yeah, but come on there not exactly expensive or used very much these days. Apple act for price/customers wants. I expect the number of people who use a modem is very minimal.
Originally posted by slughead
Meanwhile, the computers that MOST PEOPLE buy (white boxes) can have all that for $1,200..
This update, especially after AMD's dual core announcement, is a huge freakin joke.
Oh, I agree the update was paltry after nearly a year of no update. They should have announced these during MWSF05, and they should introduce PCIe, dual-core Macs Summer 05, but I don't run Apple, so who knows what they want to do.
Isn't it a tiny exaggeration that one can get a dual-core white box for $1200? Maybe in the summer when the Pentium D comes out, but not now. I can't even find the chip on pricewatch. Saw a dual-core 1.8 GHz Opteron CPU for ~$900, pre-order for sometime in late May, but one can also buy a dual 1.8 G5 system for ~$1700 now too.
Originally posted by MacCrazy
And the alternative was to be still using Motorola!
Yes, because IBM and Motorola are the only two companies that make processors.
Originally posted by clonenode
Might be minor, but while you are all debating video cards, etc., did anyone notice that there is no modem listed for these?
it is built-to-order option on the higher end g5s. because if you have a dual 2.7ghz g5 and you need a modem, well, for emergencies i understand, but otherwise, you've got broadband or in an office or otherwise you're an idiot.
Originally posted by THT
I don't think this is the situation at all. If Apple doesn't explicitly say that the 2.7 GHz G5 use overclocked 2.5 GHz CPUs, it's going to be a lawsuit time, and they will lose. I don't see it anywhere in the machine specs. Those parts are 2.7 GHz parts, officially rated as such from IBM.
This sentiment is more conspiracy theory than reality.
[edit: grammer...]
i would have to agree, apple has had a very good history of rating a certain CPU at xxx mhz/ghz and it is very likely that they have underclocked in the past rather than overclocked, to avoid bad reputation, repeated servicing, handling heavy heavy use (especially by obsessive creative overnight types)
i've been living at 3degrees north latitude for the past several months and i don't always have airconditioning, just a fan. some days i'm just surprised my laptop doesn't just start smoking and/or melting. iBook g4 has an almost undetectable fan noise.... unless you are heavily encoding an mpeg4 in hot weather or something like that...
hey
Originally posted by wilco
Yes, because IBM and Motorola are the only two companies that make processors.
A few years ago Apple moved from Motorola to IBM because they were doing the best. The Motorola's are still on 167MHz system bus! AMD and Intel aren't doing much better and switching to one of those processors isn't as straightforward as the software on the Mac is built for the PowerPC.
[B]very unlikely dude, if you're up for it, a dual 2.5ghz g5 with 1gb of RAM will be bloody sweet...! compared to your old G4... seriously...
about the GPU: if you are unhappy with the GPU and are a serious gamer, get the nVidia ultra 5800 for $500 more when ordering
otherwise also Ati's got some mac offerings, see below, if you want more power than the 9600/9650 in the new g5s. you'll have to sell/ebay/etc the 9600/9650 in the g5 though if you want upgrade the GPU after you receive the g5 system...
all the best
But all I'm reading is these new G5's aren't a massive step forward, so should I shell out now on old technology or wait, this box is going to earn me money for 3-4 years and as I don't need to buy today I could hold off and buy something in the summer which is cutting edge...
Originally posted by xflare
The single 1.8ghz Powermac still has 256mb of RAM....not good..also, that means there is NO chance what so ever that to iBooks,Mac mini or eMac will be getting 512.
Strangely though, the 1.8 may as well be discontinued. Maybe they are just shifting old stock or something, as there is no mention of thr 1.8GHz model at http://www.apple.com/powermac/
It is still for sale, and can be seen on the PowerMac specs page, but if you read the main PowerMac page, it is written as if the 1.8Ghz doesn't exist.
Very strange, it seems its days are numbered, so I don't think this has much impact on whether 512Mb is added to other Macs soon.
[/B]But all I'm reading is these new G5's aren't a massive step forward, so should I shell out now on old technology or wait, this box is going to earn me money for 3-4 years and as I don't need to buy today I could hold off and buy something in the summer which is cutting edge... [/B]
BUT will you be more productive for a few months if you don't wait. Or will you be more productive if you wait for a minor upgrade again which will last you 3-4 years.
Originally posted by G_Warren
Strangely though, the 1.8 may as well be discontinued. Maybe they are just shifting old stock or something, as there is no mention of thr 1.8GHz model at http://www.apple.com/powermac/
It is still for sale, and can be seen on the PowerMac specs page, but if you read the main PowerMac page, it is written as if the 1.8Ghz doesn't exist.
Very strange, it seems its days are numbered, so I don't think this has much impact on whether 512Mb is added to other Macs soon.
I wrote that earlier - it wasn't mentioned in the press release either. http://www.apple.com/pr
Originally posted by paulerskine
But all I'm reading is these new G5's aren't a massive step forward, so should I shell out now on old technology or wait, this box is going to earn me money for 3-4 years and as I don't need to buy today I could hold off and buy something in the summer which is cutting edge...
i understand your concerns, best thing i can advice for now is to have a look at macrumors.com buyers guide. you will see that it took almost a year for apple to update the powermac, so if they update again in 3-4 months it will be absolutely unprecedented in the powermac line.
macrumors.com buyers guide is at:
http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/
you will have to assess the risks though in any case and decide what's best for your needs. remember in any case that with the powermac g5s just released, if you are looking at 3-4 years time horizon, remember GPU card, RAM, hard disks, are easily upgradable. also in the powermac G4 line there has emerged a strong trend of upgrades there as well which may continue through to the powermag g5 line