Cons: not a public API, but then neither were the methods used previously.
Sure, if you want to use a private API, go ahead. Commercial software vedors will avoid them at all costs. Apple does not want you to use them, and most assuredly it will break in the future, perhaps even in an inline to Tiger. Apple has provided altnerate (kernel based) interfaces for antivirus developers, which all of them are using for Tiger. Kernel based solutions have their problems, but so does using a private unpublished and mostly changing SPI.
And PS: The previously used methods were not public, but supported by Apple, because nothing else existed. The Spotlight APIs are undoubtedly not supported.
Looking at this code, there are some glaring omissions that would make it undesirable for AV vendors. I won't go into all of them here but suffice it to say there are many of them. But most importantly, it is only a notification API, not a permission API. It is not possible to deny access to an infected file when a client attempts to open it or close it. Therefore the file could be sent across the wire in an email program without the AV program doing anything about it.
ClamAV doesn't rely on kernel extensions because it doesn't perform on-access scanning on OS X. You must manually scan files as they are accessed, such as when they are download from the Internet. Norton AntiVirus scans files for viruses as soon as they are created, so when you copy them from a file server or download them. In order to perform on-access scanning, you must have a kernel extension, which is why all the antivirus programs on OS X have kernel extensions.
ClamAV also has many other deficiences, such as no support for scanning inside of StuffIt files and many other compressed archive formats.
People like to hate Symantec. It's too bad, otherwise they might still be producing all of their products for us, rather than discontinuing Systemworks.
I have all of the repair and recover utilities, and Norton's is no worse than Techtool, or others, but it gets bad press, and thus low sales.
People like to hate Symantec. It's too bad, otherwise they might still be producing all of their products for us, rather than discontinuing Systemworks.
I have all of the repair and recover utilities, and Norton's is no worse than Techtool, or others, but it gets bad press, and thus low sales.
Anti-Virus has always worked well.
People dislike Norton in general, and Systemworks in particular, for good reason. Their product has caused as many problems as it has solved. They completely and utterly fail to support their product and have an attrocious attitude toward Mac customers.
Why do you think that there is so much advice to "step away from the Norton (Systemworks)" for the few people still being misled into using that product?
The reason that they have discontinued Systemworks is, presumably, that it is no longer commercially viable. It will not be missed...well, actually it will. Good riddance!
It ordinarily is not desirable to have vendors dropping Mac support. In this case, it is.
Their anti-virus software, when I last used it, was a buggy piece of junk as well. I know that their Windows anti-virus is better than the Mac product.
I have all of the repair and recover utilities, and Norton's is no worse than Techtool, or others, but it gets bad press, and thus low sales.
I have yet to see TechTool, DiskWarrior et al produce trashed disks from known good ones. I have seen it with Norton. Their reputation on the Mac is well deserved. Sad, really. They used to be a good Mac house, many years ago. Now? Meh. They never really made the transition to X successfully.
Thank you. The "virii misspelling of "viruses" is starting to spread like a virus. BTW I'm working my Ph.D. in the field of...virology. Virologists say it and spell it as "viruses". Debate over.
Another annoyance: Pundits are pronouncing ideology as "eye-dee-ology" rather than the proper "ih-dee-ology" (sounds, appropriately enough, like "idiot"). Doesn't really matter I suppose, but I still get annoyed - although it probably has more to do with the bloviating than mispronunciation.
It used to be "neu-cue-lur" that annoyed me, but nobody says that anymore. Well, almost nobody
People dislike Norton in general, and Systemworks in particular, for good reason. Their product has caused as many problems as it has solved. They completely and utterly fail to support their product and have an attrocious attitude toward Mac customers.
Why do you think that there is so much advice to "step away from the Norton (Systemworks)" for the few people still being misled into using that product?
The reason that they have discontinued Systemworks is, presumably, that it is no longer commercially viable. It will not be missed...well, actually it will. Good riddance!
Anybody who knows the Mac market knows that Norton SystemWorks for Macintosh was one of the top sellers in the utilities market. But that's aside the point. Systemworks may or may not have had trouble (I never used it so I don't know) but that's way off topic here. Symantec says they killed the product to focus on their bread and butter, Internet Security, and given their recent moves on the PC side, I am not surprised.
Quote:
It ordinarily is not desirable to have vendors dropping Mac support. In this case, it is.
<rant>
People like you make me thankful that my company deals mainly with enterprise customers. Customers like you have a bad experience and then make generalized assumptions about the quality of a product. If everybody thought like you, then Apple would've been out of business years ago when iBooks started dying left and right (causing a recall later on). Judging by the Apple tech support boards at the time (and currently, as the iBook issues lately seem to be a dime a dozen these days) it happened to a lot of people. But few ran around saying Apple sucks and they should stop making computers. Or the OS X 10.3 Firewire drive bug that caused data corruption. Or the OS X CoreAudio kernel panic that was quite rampant with people that have iSubs. I could go on.
In reality, they were all a small problem ocurring to a small group of customers, but on the Internet everybody thinks they're a journalist. Worse everybody believes everything they read on the Internet.</rant>
I have yet to see TechTool, DiskWarrior et al produce trashed disks from known good ones. I have seen it with Norton. Their reputation on the Mac is well deserved. Sad, really. They used to be a good Mac house, many years ago. Now? Meh. They never really made the transition to X successfully.
I've had disks trashed by Techtools, thank you. And DiskWarrior had many problems through 10.3. We've had many a discussion about these problems in my user group.
We Mac users tend to be very critical of a lack of perceived perfection. Maybe that's good, maybe not. Often it's led to better products for us. Other times its led to products that were pretty good not being given a chance.
Symantec was pretty good to us over the years. As more Mac only products sprang up from small companies, Nortons sales shrank, and their updates became sparser. Companies reflect their user base. If the user base loses interest, then they do as well. The Mac is a small market. Sometimes small companies can thrive in it while large ones don't.
I'm sorry to see it go. Don't think that this will make Techtools any better, or the company any easier to deal with. Their update for 10.4 is already causing corruption, and Diskwarrior, as much as I like it, is not a full fledged utility.
Thank you. The "virii misspelling of "viruses" is starting to spread like a virus. BTW I'm working my Ph.D. in the field of...virology. Virologists say it and spell it as "viruses". Debate over.
Another annoyance: Pundits are pronouncing ideology as "eye-dee-ology" rather than the proper "ih-dee-ology" (sounds, appropriately enough, like "idiot"). Doesn't really matter I suppose, but I still get annoyed - although it probably has more to do with the bloviating than mispronunciation.
It used to be "neu-cue-lur" that annoyed me, but nobody says that anymore. Well, almost nobody
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like you say the use is spreading. Thats all that matters.
Look, if language didn't change and evolve, we would all be speaking like Chaucer, or Shakespeare.
The arguments are worthless. Language is alive. Only the French, with their Academe, are foolishly trying to hold it back.
Thank you. The "virii misspelling of "viruses" is starting to spread like a virus. BTW I'm working my Ph.D. in the field of...virology. Virologists say it and spell it as "viruses". Debate over.
The "virii" spelling is just as correct as "viruses".
Quote:
Another annoyance: Pundits are pronouncing ideology as "eye-dee-ology" rather than the proper "ih-dee-ology" (sounds, appropriately enough, like "idiot").
[B]Anybody who knows the Mac market knows that Norton SystemWorks for Macintosh was one of the top sellers in the utilities market. But that's aside the point. Systemworks may or may not have had trouble (I never used it so I don't know) but that's way off topic here. Symantec says they killed the product to focus on their bread and butter, Internet Security, and given their recent moves on the PC side, I am not surprised.
<rant>
People like you make me thankful that my company deals mainly with enterprise customers. Customers like you have a bad experience and then make generalized assumptions about the quality of a product. If everybody thought like you, then Apple would've been out of business years ago when iBooks started dying left and right (causing a recall later on). Judging by the Apple tech support boards at the time (and currently, as the iBook issues lately seem to be a dime a dozen these days) it happened to a lot of people. But few ran around saying Apple sucks and they should stop making computers. Or the OS X 10.3 Firewire drive bug that caused data corruption. Or the OS X CoreAudio kernel panic that was quite rampant with people that have iSubs. I could go on.
In reality, they were all a small problem ocurring to a small group of customers, but on the Internet everybody thinks they're a journalist. Worse everybody believes everything they read on the Internet.</rant>
I am glad I don't use your product as you obviously do not know what you are talking about and, if that is an example, you probably don't know what you are doing with your product.
If you had any first hand experience with NSW you would not make such foolish statements as you have done here.
I am glad I don't use your product as you obviously do not know what you are talking about and, if that is an example, you probably don't know what you are doing with your product.
If you had any first hand experience with NSW you would not make such foolish statements as you have done here.
i agree with RBR. all these bloody "enterprise" people think they're hella smart but really... they spend more time talking sh1t with know-nothing managers than actually doing real IT work in front of their computers.
i'm not taking this out on anyone personally, just that recently i've been really pissed off by some SAP guy and Veritas guy that thought they were the bee's knees. f8ck them. and f8ck the guy above talking about NSW even though he's not even really used it....
Yeah, I think this thread has gotten a little too personal. What say we all back off, cool off, and try and keep it a little more congenial, hmm?
Continuing the discussion of language (mis)use, how badly Norton tools bite (or not), etc, should happen in a new thread over in General Discussion or AppleOutsider.
Yeah, I think this thread has gotten a little too personal. What say we all back off, cool off, and try and keep it a little more congenial, hmm?
Continuing the discussion of language (mis)use, how badly Norton tools bite (or not), etc, should happen in a new thread over in General Discussion or AppleOutsider.
Thenk yew.
A language thread would be interesting, if enough people would want to join.
just had a horrid finder problem after 20 days uptime with Tiger, couldn't rename folders or files - it was like the keyboard was dead when in edit mode on a name. repaired permissions but no cigar...took a reboot and killed my uptime. blah.
also, automator beach balls for me more than anything. and QT7 is buggy, build slide shows and it can crash. i built a slide show using automator (download images from web pages, pipe into QT7) some slideshows don't show all the images, just one or two, its kind of random. Not happy after paying $29 for it. But the live recording in QT7 is cool especially with RAW and H.264 built right in!
and Dashboard scares the heck out of me now because widgets are autodownloaded (turned that off in safari). NOT a good plan apple. what a security NIGHTMARE.
and Dashboard scares the heck out of me now because widgets are autodownloaded (turned that off in safari). NOT a good plan apple. what a security NIGHTMARE.
I agree that this is a legitimate security concern, but please... If you're surfing and some random new widget opens and prompts you to accept it, are you gonna click Accept?
I agree that this is a legitimate security concern, but please... If you're surfing and some random new widget opens and prompts you to accept it, are you gonna click Accept?
Comments
Bing, and go. From arstech:
Spotlight uses fsevents, the source code of which can be found in the Darwin 8 repository (ADC membership required):
http://www.opensource.apple.com/darw...vfs_fsevents.c
Pros: it works.
Cons: not a public API, but then neither were the methods used previously.
Originally posted by Kickaha
Pros: it works.
Cons: not a public API, but then neither were the methods used previously.
Sure, if you want to use a private API, go ahead. Commercial software vedors will avoid them at all costs. Apple does not want you to use them, and most assuredly it will break in the future, perhaps even in an inline to Tiger. Apple has provided altnerate (kernel based) interfaces for antivirus developers, which all of them are using for Tiger. Kernel based solutions have their problems, but so does using a private unpublished and mostly changing SPI.
And PS: The previously used methods were not public, but supported by Apple, because nothing else existed. The Spotlight APIs are undoubtedly not supported.
Originally posted by Kickaha
You're right. Now you've got me trying to find the discussion about what Spotlight uses to accomplish the same thing.
Bing, and go. From arstech:
Spotlight uses fsevents, the source code of which can be found in the Darwin 8 repository (ADC membership required):
http://www.opensource.apple.com/darw...vfs_fsevents.c
Looking at this code, there are some glaring omissions that would make it undesirable for AV vendors. I won't go into all of them here but suffice it to say there are many of them. But most importantly, it is only a notification API, not a permission API. It is not possible to deny access to an infected file when a client attempts to open it or close it. Therefore the file could be sent across the wire in an email program without the AV program doing anything about it.
Originally posted by rmcgann220
ClamAV doesn't rely on kernel extensions because it doesn't perform on-access scanning on OS X. You must manually scan files as they are accessed, such as when they are download from the Internet. Norton AntiVirus scans files for viruses as soon as they are created, so when you copy them from a file server or download them. In order to perform on-access scanning, you must have a kernel extension, which is why all the antivirus programs on OS X have kernel extensions.
ClamAV also has many other deficiences, such as no support for scanning inside of StuffIt files and many other compressed archive formats.
People like to hate Symantec. It's too bad, otherwise they might still be producing all of their products for us, rather than discontinuing Systemworks.
I have all of the repair and recover utilities, and Norton's is no worse than Techtool, or others, but it gets bad press, and thus low sales.
Anti-Virus has always worked well.
Originally posted by melgross
People like to hate Symantec. It's too bad, otherwise they might still be producing all of their products for us, rather than discontinuing Systemworks.
I have all of the repair and recover utilities, and Norton's is no worse than Techtool, or others, but it gets bad press, and thus low sales.
Anti-Virus has always worked well.
People dislike Norton in general, and Systemworks in particular, for good reason. Their product has caused as many problems as it has solved. They completely and utterly fail to support their product and have an attrocious attitude toward Mac customers.
Why do you think that there is so much advice to "step away from the Norton (Systemworks)" for the few people still being misled into using that product?
The reason that they have discontinued Systemworks is, presumably, that it is no longer commercially viable. It will not be missed...well, actually it will. Good riddance!
It ordinarily is not desirable to have vendors dropping Mac support. In this case, it is.
Their anti-virus software, when I last used it, was a buggy piece of junk as well. I know that their Windows anti-virus is better than the Mac product.
Originally posted by melgross
I have all of the repair and recover utilities, and Norton's is no worse than Techtool, or others, but it gets bad press, and thus low sales.
I have yet to see TechTool, DiskWarrior et al produce trashed disks from known good ones. I have seen it with Norton. Their reputation on the Mac is well deserved. Sad, really. They used to be a good Mac house, many years ago. Now? Meh. They never really made the transition to X successfully.
Originally posted by aegisdesign
btw plural of virus is viruses
Thank you. The "virii misspelling of "viruses" is starting to spread like a virus. BTW I'm working my Ph.D. in the field of...virology. Virologists say it and spell it as "viruses". Debate over.
Another annoyance: Pundits are pronouncing ideology as "eye-dee-ology" rather than the proper "ih-dee-ology" (sounds, appropriately enough, like "idiot"). Doesn't really matter I suppose, but I still get annoyed - although it probably has more to do with the bloviating than mispronunciation.
It used to be "neu-cue-lur" that annoyed me, but nobody says that anymore. Well, almost nobody
Originally posted by RBR
People dislike Norton in general, and Systemworks in particular, for good reason. Their product has caused as many problems as it has solved. They completely and utterly fail to support their product and have an attrocious attitude toward Mac customers.
Why do you think that there is so much advice to "step away from the Norton (Systemworks)" for the few people still being misled into using that product?
The reason that they have discontinued Systemworks is, presumably, that it is no longer commercially viable. It will not be missed...well, actually it will. Good riddance!
Anybody who knows the Mac market knows that Norton SystemWorks for Macintosh was one of the top sellers in the utilities market. But that's aside the point. Systemworks may or may not have had trouble (I never used it so I don't know) but that's way off topic here. Symantec says they killed the product to focus on their bread and butter, Internet Security, and given their recent moves on the PC side, I am not surprised.
Quote:
It ordinarily is not desirable to have vendors dropping Mac support. In this case, it is.
<rant>
People like you make me thankful that my company deals mainly with enterprise customers. Customers like you have a bad experience and then make generalized assumptions about the quality of a product. If everybody thought like you, then Apple would've been out of business years ago when iBooks started dying left and right (causing a recall later on). Judging by the Apple tech support boards at the time (and currently, as the iBook issues lately seem to be a dime a dozen these days) it happened to a lot of people. But few ran around saying Apple sucks and they should stop making computers. Or the OS X 10.3 Firewire drive bug that caused data corruption. Or the OS X CoreAudio kernel panic that was quite rampant with people that have iSubs. I could go on.
In reality, they were all a small problem ocurring to a small group of customers, but on the Internet everybody thinks they're a journalist. Worse everybody believes everything they read on the Internet.</rant>
Originally posted by Kickaha
I have yet to see TechTool, DiskWarrior et al produce trashed disks from known good ones. I have seen it with Norton. Their reputation on the Mac is well deserved. Sad, really. They used to be a good Mac house, many years ago. Now? Meh. They never really made the transition to X successfully.
I've had disks trashed by Techtools, thank you. And DiskWarrior had many problems through 10.3. We've had many a discussion about these problems in my user group.
We Mac users tend to be very critical of a lack of perceived perfection. Maybe that's good, maybe not. Often it's led to better products for us. Other times its led to products that were pretty good not being given a chance.
Symantec was pretty good to us over the years. As more Mac only products sprang up from small companies, Nortons sales shrank, and their updates became sparser. Companies reflect their user base. If the user base loses interest, then they do as well. The Mac is a small market. Sometimes small companies can thrive in it while large ones don't.
I'm sorry to see it go. Don't think that this will make Techtools any better, or the company any easier to deal with. Their update for 10.4 is already causing corruption, and Diskwarrior, as much as I like it, is not a full fledged utility.
The less competition there is, the worse it is.
Believe it!
Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg
Thank you. The "virii misspelling of "viruses" is starting to spread like a virus. BTW I'm working my Ph.D. in the field of...virology. Virologists say it and spell it as "viruses". Debate over.
Another annoyance: Pundits are pronouncing ideology as "eye-dee-ology" rather than the proper "ih-dee-ology" (sounds, appropriately enough, like "idiot"). Doesn't really matter I suppose, but I still get annoyed - although it probably has more to do with the bloviating than mispronunciation.
It used to be "neu-cue-lur" that annoyed me, but nobody says that anymore. Well, almost nobody
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like you say the use is spreading. Thats all that matters.
Look, if language didn't change and evolve, we would all be speaking like Chaucer, or Shakespeare.
The arguments are worthless. Language is alive. Only the French, with their Academe, are foolishly trying to hold it back.
Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg
Thank you. The "virii misspelling of "viruses" is starting to spread like a virus. BTW I'm working my Ph.D. in the field of...virology. Virologists say it and spell it as "viruses". Debate over.
The "virii" spelling is just as correct as "viruses".
Another annoyance: Pundits are pronouncing ideology as "eye-dee-ology" rather than the proper "ih-dee-ology" (sounds, appropriately enough, like "idiot").
Both pronunciations are correct. Cf. http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionar...ry&va=ideology
Originally posted by melgross
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like you say the use is spreading. Thats all that matters.
Look, if language didn't change and evolve, we would all be speaking like Chaucer, or Shakespeare.
The arguments are worthless. Language is alive. Only the French, with their Academe, are foolishly trying to hold it back.
I couldn't agree more. :-)
Originally posted by sunilraman
thanks buddy.. now i just need to get Tiger
mattyj -- try the above link gsxrboy provided, it may give you better VLC performance on Tiger
Performance is perfect in Tiger now, no view size problems at all! Even live resizing is as smooth as butter on my Powerbook.
Originally posted by rmcgann220
[B]Anybody who knows the Mac market knows that Norton SystemWorks for Macintosh was one of the top sellers in the utilities market. But that's aside the point. Systemworks may or may not have had trouble (I never used it so I don't know) but that's way off topic here. Symantec says they killed the product to focus on their bread and butter, Internet Security, and given their recent moves on the PC side, I am not surprised.
<rant>
People like you make me thankful that my company deals mainly with enterprise customers. Customers like you have a bad experience and then make generalized assumptions about the quality of a product. If everybody thought like you, then Apple would've been out of business years ago when iBooks started dying left and right (causing a recall later on). Judging by the Apple tech support boards at the time (and currently, as the iBook issues lately seem to be a dime a dozen these days) it happened to a lot of people. But few ran around saying Apple sucks and they should stop making computers. Or the OS X 10.3 Firewire drive bug that caused data corruption. Or the OS X CoreAudio kernel panic that was quite rampant with people that have iSubs. I could go on.
In reality, they were all a small problem ocurring to a small group of customers, but on the Internet everybody thinks they're a journalist. Worse everybody believes everything they read on the Internet.</rant>
I am glad I don't use your product as you obviously do not know what you are talking about and, if that is an example, you probably don't know what you are doing with your product.
If you had any first hand experience with NSW you would not make such foolish statements as you have done here.
Originally posted by RBR
I am glad I don't use your product as you obviously do not know what you are talking about and, if that is an example, you probably don't know what you are doing with your product.
If you had any first hand experience with NSW you would not make such foolish statements as you have done here.
i agree with RBR. all these bloody "enterprise" people think they're hella smart but really... they spend more time talking sh1t with know-nothing managers than actually doing real IT work in front of their computers.
i'm not taking this out on anyone personally, just that recently i've been really pissed off by some SAP guy and Veritas guy that thought they were the bee's knees. f8ck them. and f8ck the guy above talking about NSW even though he's not even really used it....
edit:
i lied, i am taking this personally
Continuing the discussion of language (mis)use, how badly Norton tools bite (or not), etc, should happen in a new thread over in General Discussion or AppleOutsider.
Thenk yew.
Originally posted by Kickaha
Yeah, I think this thread has gotten a little too personal. What say we all back off, cool off, and try and keep it a little more congenial, hmm?
Continuing the discussion of language (mis)use, how badly Norton tools bite (or not), etc, should happen in a new thread over in General Discussion or AppleOutsider.
Thenk yew.
A language thread would be interesting, if enough people would want to join.
also, automator beach balls for me more than anything. and QT7 is buggy, build slide shows and it can crash. i built a slide show using automator (download images from web pages, pipe into QT7) some slideshows don't show all the images, just one or two, its kind of random. Not happy after paying $29 for it. But the live recording in QT7 is cool especially with RAW and H.264 built right in!
and Dashboard scares the heck out of me now because widgets are autodownloaded (turned that off in safari). NOT a good plan apple. what a security NIGHTMARE.
Originally posted by sandau
and Dashboard scares the heck out of me now because widgets are autodownloaded (turned that off in safari). NOT a good plan apple. what a security NIGHTMARE.
I agree that this is a legitimate security concern, but please... If you're surfing and some random new widget opens and prompts you to accept it, are you gonna click Accept?
Originally posted by Xool
I agree that this is a legitimate security concern, but please... If you're surfing and some random new widget opens and prompts you to accept it, are you gonna click Accept?
Some people might.