Well on my 12" iBook, dashboard maps to F12. In order to use that, I have to hold "Fn" and hit the eject key that doubles as F12 which is a pain. Yeah, I can remap it, and I have, but having a dedicated key with an icon or something (like the brightness and sound controls) would be great. I agree with Hattig too, it would be nice to have Expose ones as well coming to think of it.
The volume and brightness controls get so little use, I think it automatically makes sense to switch the buttons to be F1-F12 as default. The F12 is a dedicated key really - nothing else in OS X maps to it by default.
I have no prob with them adding icons for the Dashboard - Expose function arsenal.. but the F markings have to be there still, Eject has to be there still (unless they move it), and the new icons won't be legible unless they up the size of the F keys. (This would be great! So much easier to hit F keys themselves, and esc. I can't say I use F keys a lot but I use vim so the small esc kinda sucks...)
SATA also allows for much more intelligent communication due to TCQ and NCQ and ability to support additional optimizations in the future.
(Homer voice) Mmmm... NCQ.
Except for capacity, rpm, and noise level, most hard drives have looked the same to me... until now. Real world benchmarks say NCQ is going to have huge impact. This is the one buzzword in the last five years for which I'd definitely fork over $20 more on a $100 desktop hard drive.
You're wrong about simplicity. Synchronizigng singals on 2 wires is a LOT harder than on 80 wires and requires many more transistors.
???
Perhaps you juggled the definitions. But I still don't see how you're right. For parallel, you just clock your bus registers at the rate you know the signaling will work for. As far as Master-Slave synchronization, the ATA data bus is uniformly latched, and essentially acts as one wire. So there shouldn't be much difference in the architecure except one sends a one bit signal and the other a 32 bit signal.
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High clock rates aren't problem these days. And even then, clock of SATA isn't that different, overall, from ATA. Serial is a lot simpler logic . . . Power requirement is actually better in SATA because you the clock synch voltage is lower (due to simplicity). SATA also allows for much more intelligent communication due to TCQ and NCQ and ability to support additional optimizations in the future.
1. High clock rates are responsible for higher TDP, since CMOS really only dissipates during switching.
2. In any high speed serial comm layer, data verification, aggregation (buffering), and correction must be done on the fly. This means that the controller must have (A) a clock speed much higher than the sync clock so that instructions can be issued between interrupts and (B) the ability to pre-emptively multi-task the idle-time, TX, RX, Aggregation, and verification/correction processes. This means (you guessed it) a lot more transistors that also happen to be (you guessed it) clocked at a high speed.
3. If the wires are short, which they are in a laptop, indutance and hence parasitic impedance are low, so there's not really any notable power loss due to the signaling voltage.
4. I don't have anything against SATA. I'm just pointing out that it's not as efficient as parallel ATA at moving data. It makes up for this in other ways.
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Additionally, SATA allows external drive connections due to longer cables. For a laptop that would be nice and would not require an additional chip for firewire.
See point 4. Even so, a lot of stuff has Firewire, so I don't expect to see that go anytime soon. Although an external SATA port would do fine to replace the FW800 port. I haven't seen TDP numbers for SATA vs PATA, but science says parallel will be more efficient in the laptop application.
For parallel, you just clock your bus registers at the rate you know the signaling will work for.
Easy in theory. Tough in reality. Easier to do on 2 wires than 80, still.
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High clock rates are responsible for higher TDP, since CMOS really only dissipates during switching.
Higher clock rates are only for sending and recieving. The controller must still process the same amount of data, be it transfered via SATA or ATA interface.
I would really like to see some actual typical TDP numbers for SATA vs. ATA. I highly doubt that they're much different.
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I'm just pointing out that it's not as efficient as parallel ATA at moving data.
Are you referring to energy efficiency, incorporation into mobo efficiecy, ease of deployment efficiency... ?
SATA would be a big advantage in a laptop. You get lower pincount and lower power usage over the interface. Further I think Toshiba was showing a prototype at the end of last year.
Now there are certianly other bumps in the road. To make a clean transisiton you would need an optical solution that is also SATA, that will happen sooner or later.
The volume and brightness controls get so little use, I think it automatically makes sense to switch the buttons to be F1-F12 as default. The F12 is a dedicated key really - nothing else in OS X maps to it by default.
I have no prob with them adding icons for the Dashboard - Expose function arsenal.. but the F markings have to be there still, Eject has to be there still (unless they move it), and the new icons won't be legible unless they up the size of the F keys. (This would be great! So much easier to hit F keys themselves, and esc. I can't say I use F keys a lot but I use vim so the small esc kinda sucks...)
Personally I use the brightness and volume controls all the time as well as expose, dashboard and eject so it would annoy me no end if they mapped to F keys by default. I certainly wasn't suggesting removing any keys or markings though, I largely like the existing keyboards.
That right there... is the biggest marketing BS I have seen. First of all its not the thinnest (even though in theory it should be). Second of all its definitely not the strongest. I will take aluminum or titanium over carbon fiber for strength any day. I race with carbon fiber materials on my motocross bike. These parts are replaced way too often than the aluminum parts that go there. Its light but not by much. Its also about 5 mm thicker than the aluminum parts taht go in those same positions. With this extra thickness, the weights almost even out.
It is important to note that there are diferent grades, streanghts, and mixs of carbon fiber. Racing carbon fiber is mostly for how light it is and that it can flex. The Carbon Fiber used in the laptops actualy is stronger then a aluminum when you take into acount per unit of thickness per weight. A Carbon Fiber shell is less likely to break then an aluminum case, but is not as sturdy as it has more give. However it can take more horizontal and verticle implact force. Titanium wins hands down though.
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* A fast Pentium-M (or it's sucessor) with a bus to match.
* ATI Radeon X700 Mobility (or better) with 128MB VRAM
* 6+ hour battery life
* A proper default key to map dashboard to
* Gigabit ethernet
* No thicker than the current 12" Powerbook
* No unusual hardware that would cause problems dual booting Windows.
* The screen is not a widescreen ratio
It is important to note that PCI-express was never ment to be used in a laptop. As such if you put in this graphics card it will have to drop down to 1x lane (from 4x or 8x) and still it will drain faster then the old AGP implementations.
6+ hour battery life is only possible with intigrated graphics or two batteries
I agree with a button specificly able to call up the dashboard. sometimes other programs want that key. I would like to see programable function keys (not the F whatever keys but more like media keys) that can be maped for different things. Like to launch a program, control iTunes, bring up the dashboard, execute automator tasks, execute programs, etc.
Gigabit ethernet is already standard on the higher end Powerbooks and is intigrated into the Centrino chipset, just not always enabled.
If its under two inches thick and 6 pounds I will be happy.
I dont want to be able to dual boot Windows, I want to be able to do a virtual machine and run windows programs like a fast VPC 7 with the intigrated stuff from the Mac eddition. Half of the reason I want a mac is it will help me be less tempted to screw around with a bunch of software and games.
Wide screen is a must for the higher ends modles. Apple has made it clear they are going for the HD future and all HD video requires a wide screen.
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There's nothing inherently better about SATA. In fact, at similar clock rates, it's a lot slower. SATA may actually be worse for laptops, since the 2.5" drives aren't very fast (certainly not fast enough to saturate the ATA conroller), and by using a slower data clock the controllers on both sides -- ie the one on the board and the one on the disk -- can be kept simpler. This all means a lower power requirement.
SATA:
* uses difirential signaling for lower power (lower signaling power)
* has faster avarage and burst transfer speeds
* allows for hot swaping
* 2 standard supports NCQ and other queing to be done
* Only SCSI and SATA will be able to fully support hybrid discs (expected to come out in a year or two with cached burst of 100 mbps+)
It is important to note that PCI-express was never ment to be used in a laptop. As such if you put in this graphics card it will have to drop down to 1x lane (from 4x or 8x) and still it will drain faster then the old AGP implementations.
Well according to ATI that doesn't seem to be a problem.
6+ hour battery life is only possible with intigrated graphics or two batteries
I get that on my 12"iBook with a Radeon 9200 Mobility and single battery today if I lower the brightness a little. Every piece of news I have seen too indicates that future laptop processors will use less power. Windows laptop makers are talking of 6-7 hour battery life as well for future laptops. I don't think it is unreasonable.
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Originally posted by cwestpha
Wide screen is a must for the higher ends modles. Apple has made it clear they are going for the HD future and all HD video requires a wide screen.
Sure, I have no issue with larger widescreen models. I just don't feel it's that practical for a 12" screen. Either you lose screen real estate or the the resoltion is so high that text is too fine to read. The DPI of the current iBook is 106DPI I believe and without being able to change system font sizes like Windows, any more would be a problem.
Well according to ATI that doesn't seem to be a problem.
I get that on my 12"iBook with a Radeon 9200 Mobility and single battery today if I lower the brightness a little. Every piece of news I have seen too indicates that future laptop processors will use less power. Windows laptop makers are talking of 6-7 hour battery life as well for future laptops. I don't think it is unreasonable.
I think the problem with battery life is the batteries, not other components. Batteries today are bulky, heavy and don't last nearly enough. Of course, that's not just an Apple problem, but it is an area where R&D $$$ could be invested.
where is the future of any laptop the neat thing about apple they are year or so ahead of other companies, no one other than apple is willing to make a mark, and take a chance, e.g. no floppy, usb, titanium the list goes on. so you need to think 2 years ahead on the typical cows of wintel to see the apple future which will put a major spark in the industry. that's why intel likes the synergy. they want to move faster ahead to flex it's muscles compared to rivals.
I sell whitebooks (third pary notebooks). With the release of Sonoma the platform took a little bit of a power hit. Despite lowering power with including SATA, DDR2 (on die termination is a big plus for laptops), and a few other tweeks the inclusion of PCI-Express negated all of those benefits. one line of mobile PCI-express takes up the same power as a 4x AGP implementation. So every 1 line to that graphics card will decrease your battery life by a few minuits. That is why ATI and NVIDIA have their portable PCI-express chips drop down to one or two lanes when on battery and go back up to 4 or (sometimes) 8 when pluged in. It saves ten to fifteen minutes droping the performance. Granted the LCD still sucks up more power then any other component, that is why most people are praying for OLED screen soon (no more backlight).
Oh, and the stuff ATI and Nvidia tell system intigrators and the public are often different. They have to tell us some of the tricks they use to make the PR true.
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I get that on my 12"iBook with a Radeon 9200 Mobility and single battery today if I lower the brightness a little. Every piece of news I have seen too indicates that future laptop processors will use less power. Windows laptop makers are talking of 6-7 hour battery life as well for future laptops. I don't think it is unreasonable.
The components that suck up power in a Sonoma based DTR: Monitor, GPU, optical drive, CPU, hard drive, wifi, northbridge (wifi and northbridge are sometimes about the same when not searching).
Monitor improvements are done through light sensors and soon sensors detecting where you are actualy looking and dimming that part of the screen. In five to ten years expect OLED screens that drop screen power usage by 70%+.
GPU: GPus are keept in place through clock throteling and manipulation of active PCI-express lanes. Soon we will start seeing good gate clocking/throteling implementations in mobile GPUs.
Optical Drive: you have a motor, often multiple lasers, and they are now spinning at over 12x DVD speed.
CPU: Currently improvements are done through manipulation of gates (changing gate construction material, ability to turn off portions of the chip, etc) and the KISS method to design (keep it simple stupid). With Yonah we will have dual core processors that, when on battery power, will switch between the two cores to keep heat down (gates leak more the hotter they get).
Hard drive: Currently hard drive consumption is keept down by keeping then spinning slower then in desktops. In the future hybrid drives will come out that use large "smart caches" of about 64 to 256 megs in size to store most of the information used in normal work. This will result in a 90%+ drop in hard drive power and access usage with transfers in the 100s of megs a seccond for everyday usage. Also this will allow "instant on" in many circumstances. The OS will save the basic OS components and active application components in the smart cache before going into hibrinate. You can then turn on your computer and as the drive spins up it will quickly load all of the basic OS components and everything else. By then the drive has spun up and has started sending the rest of the information and this cuts down access time and speed. Furthermore since most people dont do multimedia things often it would be simple to transfer documents and other commonly used files that wont fit in memory to the smart cache and you now have read/wite speeds over 100 megs a seccond.
This is actualy something Microsoft is trying to push with a few other companies for Longhorn. just think what a 30%+ speed increase in hard drive access could do? This also cuts down on how often that hard drive needs to spin up and read so it drematicly cuts down power there too.
Then again this is from my experience as a system intigrator and PC repair specialist.
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Sure, I have no issue with larger widescreen models. I just don't feel it's that practical for a 12" screen. Either you lose screen real estate or the the resoltion is so high that text is too fine to read. The DPI of the current iBook is 106DPI I believe and without being able to change system font sizes like Windows, any more would be a problem.
true, the worst thing you can do for power is to increase screen size. And having a 12" wide screen is insain using Apple LCDs (there are some ultra density ones that when teamed up with a OS that suports proper font scaling looks great). Infact I want Apple to make HD screens for their powebook line. I want as wondeful a picture on a HD one as on a 15 or 17 inch powerbook.
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I think the problem with battery life is the batteries, not other components. Batteries today are bulky, heavy and don't last nearly enough. Of course, that's not just an Apple problem, but it is an area where R&D $$$ could be invested.
Well there is a physical limit to how the density of battery fluids. Apple could use the space in their batterys more smartly (they do wast a pretty good amount of space), but most of the problem is physical. You can fit in more l-ion electrochemicals without making the battery physicly bigger or compressing the chemicles (which makes it heavier anyways, is more costly, and is more dangerus).
Fuel cells are the best bet. Those are 10 years off before they become common in laptops though.
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where is the future of any laptop the neat thing about apple they are year or so ahead of other companies, no one other than apple is willing to make a mark, and take a chance, e.g. no floppy, usb, titanium the list goes on. so you need to think 2 years ahead on the typical cows of wintel to see the apple future which will put a major spark in the industry. that's why intel likes the synergy. they want to move faster ahead to flex it's muscles compared to rivals.
Apple is both ahead and behind. Apple controls the platform so they can do a 180 turn m uch faster then someone with a larger install base and competition with the platform components. It also helps that Apple targets people that tend to have more money then the bottom of the line Dell market. They can put premium features in a premium package easily.
USB was actualy a IBM compatable technology, FireWire was the Apple technology. It was a few years latter that Apple fully embrased USB. Also I would like to point out that the thinkpad actualy tends to be where new laptop technologies are tried out first (touch pad improvements, sudden motion sensor, new Centrino technologies, light sensors, etc).
Apple however does like to be bleeding edge whenever it comes to media. Everything else they tend to be slightly ahead of the IBM compatable generic market.
where is the future of any laptop the neat thing about apple they are year or so ahead of other companies, no one other than apple is willing to make a mark, and take a chance, e.g. no floppy, usb, titanium the list goes on. so you need to think 2 years ahead on the typical cows of wintel to see the apple future which will put a major spark in the industry. that's why intel likes the synergy. they want to move faster ahead to flex it's muscles compared to rivals. [/
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Yup, Apple is REALLY at the forefront of laptop technology!
All of the HP's can be reasonably tricked out in the $1500-$1700 price range, the Ferrari can be had for $2K, of course the RockHard is a tad spendy at ~$5K (US). Of course, HP dosen't officially support x64 on their laptop line (yet, but it appears that they are working on it now), but end users have successfully installed x64 on the ZV6000 and the R4000 with a full set of working drivers.
BTW, HP has also just announced the ML-40 (2.2GHz Turion's) for the nx6125, on the same day that AMD officially released them!
Yup, your right, Apple is definately -2 years ahead of the Wintel crowd!
However, I do have some encouragement for you, Yugo has announced they will use the new embedded G4 in their soon to be re-released autos:
No, CIJ didn't get it right, 2005 isn't the year of HD, it IS the year of the LAPTOP (check the units sold of laptop's versus desktop's over the past 12 months or so)!
Actualy this holiday season and next year is going to be the year of HD once HDTVs reach under the $1,000 mark and all of the HighDef DVD formats.
I would like to point out that the last thing any consumer wants right now is XP 64. The drivers currently avalible for it are limited, buggy, missing features, or doent perform as well as those for 32-bit.
Lastly why would you want an HP laptop, they just break with a tech support staff that just bills you for warentee repair (its quite sad actualy). Atleast apple honors there warentee when it's stuff breaks.
P.S. If you buy an Acer you cant even uprade the memory yourself without voiding all warentees your laptop may fall under.
Actualy this holiday season and next year is going to be the year of HD once HDTVs reach under the $1,000 mark and all of the HighDef DVD formats.
I would like to point out that the last thing any consumer wants right now is XP 64. The drivers currently avalible for it are limited, buggy, missing features, or doent perform as well as those for 32-bit.
Lastly why would you want an HP laptop, they just break with a tech support staff that just bills you for warentee repair (its quite sad actualy). Atleast apple honors there warentee when it's stuff breaks.
P.S. If you buy an Acer you cant even uprade the memory yourself without voiding all warentees your laptop may fall under.
All 3 are 12 month limited warranty's, I believe these are fairly standard in the industry, I believe all 3 have language such that ANY non-approved modifications/parts void their respective warranties, this I assume would be anything including end user memory upgrades (I may be wrong here, but one would think that the language would need to be fairly explicit). Also, each warranty states that parts and labor are included for the first year, where does it say that HP charges for warranty service? Could you please point me to the specific manufacturer's website URL's to correct me if I'm wrong here? Nevertheless, a warranty has never stopped me in the past (I've installed upgrades for every removable part of several computers, and I'm batting 1000% (so far)). So what if I "technically" void the warranty, oops, I broke something by installing something that broke the computer, oops, I installed the original equipment and returned said computer to the manufacturer, oops, the manufacturer repairs said computer at no expense to me (and pays for the shipping to boot). Dishonest? Yes! Do I care? No, not in the least!
So you don't like XP x64? Too buggy you say? I could have a dual-boot (XP x32/x64), or quad-boot (XP x32/x64/Linux x32/x64) setup? How do you like them Apple(s)? "Options, I like options." But who cares, for I write 64-bit FORTRAN (uni/vector/parallel) code (yes a relic I know (at least to non-engineers/scientists) but still the best game in town for true speed freaks (FORTRAN 2003 anyone?)), and have done so on supercomputers for over 10 years now. And I need to go really, really, REALLY fast (Yes, a Ferrari suits me just fine), in a very, very, VERY portable fashion. I don't really need a GUI, but its nice to have one, all I really need is a fast CPU, fast DDR, vanilla LCD, and fast HD! If I really need the rest of the laptop functioning, I'll use x32 whatever.
Unfortunately, neither 64-bit compiler will work on Apple's SlowerBook (and probably won't work on the first MacTel laptops, since It's rumored that they will be dual-core 32-bit Yonah's). So no, Apple is NOT at the forefront of laptop technology, and will not be at the forefront of laptop technology for the foreseeable future!
Apple's laptops may look like a Ferrari, but they still have a Yugo engine!
Finally, 1-2 months of HD DVD product availability does not make "2005 the year of HD," $1000 HD DVD players does not make "2005 the year of HD," $3-10K HD camcorders does not make "2005 the year of HD." When the price point comes down to the Joe Sixpack level, then you can say that "2007 is the year of HD."
BTW, my name's Bill O'Cracker, you'd know me from the O'Cracker Factor!
I think that, with the next generation iBook and Powerbook, the 12" Powerbook will spin off into it's own line, seperate from the Powerbook. It has more in common architechturally with the iBook, now, and I hope that Apple wouldn't treat it as a "Powerbook mini" or as an "iBook Pro," but as it's own line. It'd be Apple's "Prosumer" line, in a way - people who want power in a smaller package.
Such a notebook would likely have a 13" widescreen display, and maybe even an 11" model, who knows.
As far as the Powerbook proper, I want brighter, higher resolution screens more than anything.
(By the way, I think that with the new 14" and 15" iBook, the 12" model will become the "iBook mini," but that's kinda off-topic.)
What isn't off-topic is that I think that we could see the new Powerbook as early as MWSF - and yes, with Intel Inside. The Powerbook seems to be the ideal place to launch the "Mactel" platform - not only is it where a new processor is needed most, but it's also one of Apple's "flagship" products, and you had better bet that the sleek new Powerbook would be plastered on the cover of every computer magazine. Who knows...maybe we'll see all of Apple's notebooks go Intel there (rampant speculation is fun!).
I believe all 3 have language such that ANY non-approved modifications/parts void their respective warranties, this I assume would be anything including end user memory upgrades (I may be wrong here, but one would think that the language would need to be fairly explicit).
Yes, you are wrong, at least as far as the Apple hardware is concerned. Apple even includes detailed instructions in the user manual on how to install extra memory. Guess you are not a Mac user .
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Also, each warranty states that parts and labor are included for the first year, where does it say that HP charges for warranty service? Could you please point me to the specific manufacturer's website URL's to correct me if I'm wrong here?
Although it is to cwestpha to respond to your question, I think (s)he means that HP will often try to charge you for repairs under warranty, pretending that you broke something, not that this is an official warranty term. This happens at times in the Apple side too, but it is rare.
I think he meant a 'Dashboard' key on the keyboard.
this is my only complaint with Tiger, the expose key is the same as the eject key on a standard (non-apple) USB keyboard, his is annoying for 2 reasons, when I eject a DVD/DC i get dashboard and when I bring up dashboard and hold the key a minnisecond too long it ejects the CD...I would love to see the default keymap fixe3d in this respect (but changing it in prefs isnt a big deal either)
ehile I am posting, the change I would like to see is more durable enclosures, the aluminum on the display models (I don't acctually own one) seems so soft, and I have heard that it dents and dings easily...to me this is un-acceptable...I don't beat the hell outa things but I want it to hold up if something would happen...
I think he meant a 'Dashboard' key on the keyboard.
this is my only complaint with Tiger, the expose key is the same as the eject key on a standard (non-apple) USB keyboard, his is annoying for 2 reasons, when I eject a DVD/DC i get dashboard and when I bring up dashboard and hold the key a minnisecond too long it ejects the CD...I would love to see the default keymap fixe3d in this respect (but changing it in prefs isnt a big deal either)
ehile I am posting, the change I would like to see is more durable enclosures, the aluminum on the display models (I don't acctually own one) seems so soft, and I have heard that it dents and dings easily...to me this is un-acceptable...I don't beat the hell outa things but I want it to hold up if something would happen...
Comments
Originally posted by MattB
Well on my 12" iBook, dashboard maps to F12. In order to use that, I have to hold "Fn" and hit the eject key that doubles as F12 which is a pain. Yeah, I can remap it, and I have, but having a dedicated key with an icon or something (like the brightness and sound controls) would be great. I agree with Hattig too, it would be nice to have Expose ones as well coming to think of it.
The volume and brightness controls get so little use, I think it automatically makes sense to switch the buttons to be F1-F12 as default. The F12 is a dedicated key really - nothing else in OS X maps to it by default.
I have no prob with them adding icons for the Dashboard - Expose function arsenal.. but the F markings have to be there still, Eject has to be there still (unless they move it), and the new icons won't be legible unless they up the size of the F keys. (This would be great! So much easier to hit F keys themselves, and esc. I can't say I use F keys a lot but I use vim so the small esc kinda sucks...)
Originally posted by skatman
SATA also allows for much more intelligent communication due to TCQ and NCQ and ability to support additional optimizations in the future.
(Homer voice) Mmmm... NCQ.
Except for capacity, rpm, and noise level, most hard drives have looked the same to me... until now. Real world benchmarks say NCQ is going to have huge impact. This is the one buzzword in the last five years for which I'd definitely fork over $20 more on a $100 desktop hard drive.
Originally posted by Gon
Let's pack a tiny amount of oxidizer inside the magnesium chassis, and we've got ourselves a Mission: Impossible Special Edition Powerbook.
Just imagine in the Apple menu: Sleep, Restart, Shutdown, Self Destruct...
I like that!! Especially if you try to load Windows on it!!
Blue Screen of Death then WOOF the entire computer ignites with a last screen saying "You should have stayed with OSX!
Originally posted by skatman
You're wrong about simplicity. Synchronizigng singals on 2 wires is a LOT harder than on 80 wires and requires many more transistors.
???
Perhaps you juggled the definitions. But I still don't see how you're right. For parallel, you just clock your bus registers at the rate you know the signaling will work for. As far as Master-Slave synchronization, the ATA data bus is uniformly latched, and essentially acts as one wire. So there shouldn't be much difference in the architecure except one sends a one bit signal and the other a 32 bit signal.
High clock rates aren't problem these days. And even then, clock of SATA isn't that different, overall, from ATA. Serial is a lot simpler logic . . . Power requirement is actually better in SATA because you the clock synch voltage is lower (due to simplicity). SATA also allows for much more intelligent communication due to TCQ and NCQ and ability to support additional optimizations in the future.
1. High clock rates are responsible for higher TDP, since CMOS really only dissipates during switching.
2. In any high speed serial comm layer, data verification, aggregation (buffering), and correction must be done on the fly. This means that the controller must have (A) a clock speed much higher than the sync clock so that instructions can be issued between interrupts and (B) the ability to pre-emptively multi-task the idle-time, TX, RX, Aggregation, and verification/correction processes. This means (you guessed it) a lot more transistors that also happen to be (you guessed it) clocked at a high speed.
3. If the wires are short, which they are in a laptop, indutance and hence parasitic impedance are low, so there's not really any notable power loss due to the signaling voltage.
4. I don't have anything against SATA. I'm just pointing out that it's not as efficient as parallel ATA at moving data. It makes up for this in other ways.
Additionally, SATA allows external drive connections due to longer cables. For a laptop that would be nice and would not require an additional chip for firewire.
See point 4. Even so, a lot of stuff has Firewire, so I don't expect to see that go anytime soon. Although an external SATA port would do fine to replace the FW800 port. I haven't seen TDP numbers for SATA vs PATA, but science says parallel will be more efficient in the laptop application.
For parallel, you just clock your bus registers at the rate you know the signaling will work for.
Easy in theory. Tough in reality. Easier to do on 2 wires than 80, still.
High clock rates are responsible for higher TDP, since CMOS really only dissipates during switching.
Higher clock rates are only for sending and recieving. The controller must still process the same amount of data, be it transfered via SATA or ATA interface.
I would really like to see some actual typical TDP numbers for SATA vs. ATA. I highly doubt that they're much different.
I'm just pointing out that it's not as efficient as parallel ATA at moving data.
Are you referring to energy efficiency, incorporation into mobo efficiecy, ease of deployment efficiency... ?
SATA would be a big advantage in a laptop. You get lower pincount and lower power usage over the interface. Further I think Toshiba was showing a prototype at the end of last year.
Now there are certianly other bumps in the road. To make a clean transisiton you would need an optical solution that is also SATA, that will happen sooner or later.
Dave
Originally posted by mynamehere
SATA Hard drives? In a laptop?
Originally posted by Gon
The volume and brightness controls get so little use, I think it automatically makes sense to switch the buttons to be F1-F12 as default. The F12 is a dedicated key really - nothing else in OS X maps to it by default.
I have no prob with them adding icons for the Dashboard - Expose function arsenal.. but the F markings have to be there still, Eject has to be there still (unless they move it), and the new icons won't be legible unless they up the size of the F keys. (This would be great! So much easier to hit F keys themselves, and esc. I can't say I use F keys a lot but I use vim so the small esc kinda sucks...)
Personally I use the brightness and volume controls all the time as well as expose, dashboard and eject so it would annoy me no end if they mapped to F keys by default. I certainly wasn't suggesting removing any keys or markings though, I largely like the existing keyboards.
That right there... is the biggest marketing BS I have seen. First of all its not the thinnest (even though in theory it should be). Second of all its definitely not the strongest. I will take aluminum or titanium over carbon fiber for strength any day. I race with carbon fiber materials on my motocross bike. These parts are replaced way too often than the aluminum parts that go there. Its light but not by much. Its also about 5 mm thicker than the aluminum parts taht go in those same positions. With this extra thickness, the weights almost even out.
It is important to note that there are diferent grades, streanghts, and mixs of carbon fiber. Racing carbon fiber is mostly for how light it is and that it can flex. The Carbon Fiber used in the laptops actualy is stronger then a aluminum when you take into acount per unit of thickness per weight. A Carbon Fiber shell is less likely to break then an aluminum case, but is not as sturdy as it has more give. However it can take more horizontal and verticle implact force. Titanium wins hands down though.
* A fast Pentium-M (or it's sucessor) with a bus to match.
* ATI Radeon X700 Mobility (or better) with 128MB VRAM
* 6+ hour battery life
* A proper default key to map dashboard to
* Gigabit ethernet
* No thicker than the current 12" Powerbook
* No unusual hardware that would cause problems dual booting Windows.
* The screen is not a widescreen ratio
It is important to note that PCI-express was never ment to be used in a laptop. As such if you put in this graphics card it will have to drop down to 1x lane (from 4x or 8x) and still it will drain faster then the old AGP implementations.
6+ hour battery life is only possible with intigrated graphics or two batteries
I agree with a button specificly able to call up the dashboard. sometimes other programs want that key. I would like to see programable function keys (not the F whatever keys but more like media keys) that can be maped for different things. Like to launch a program, control iTunes, bring up the dashboard, execute automator tasks, execute programs, etc.
Gigabit ethernet is already standard on the higher end Powerbooks and is intigrated into the Centrino chipset, just not always enabled.
If its under two inches thick and 6 pounds I will be happy.
I dont want to be able to dual boot Windows, I want to be able to do a virtual machine and run windows programs like a fast VPC 7 with the intigrated stuff from the Mac eddition. Half of the reason I want a mac is it will help me be less tempted to screw around with a bunch of software and games.
Wide screen is a must for the higher ends modles. Apple has made it clear they are going for the HD future and all HD video requires a wide screen.
There's nothing inherently better about SATA. In fact, at similar clock rates, it's a lot slower. SATA may actually be worse for laptops, since the 2.5" drives aren't very fast (certainly not fast enough to saturate the ATA conroller), and by using a slower data clock the controllers on both sides -- ie the one on the board and the one on the disk -- can be kept simpler. This all means a lower power requirement.
SATA:
* uses difirential signaling for lower power (lower signaling power)
* has faster avarage and burst transfer speeds
* allows for hot swaping
* 2 standard supports NCQ and other queing to be done
* Only SCSI and SATA will be able to fully support hybrid discs (expected to come out in a year or two with cached burst of 100 mbps+)
ATA:
* higher power consumption
* lower overall and burst speeds possible
* no hotswap
* no native standards requirement for queing
* wont support future hybrid hard drives
Originally posted by cwestpha
It is important to note that PCI-express was never ment to be used in a laptop. As such if you put in this graphics card it will have to drop down to 1x lane (from 4x or 8x) and still it will drain faster then the old AGP implementations.
Well according to ATI that doesn't seem to be a problem.
http://www.ati.com/products/MobilityRadeonx700/
http://www.ati.com/products/MobilityRadeonx800/
Originally posted by cwestpha
6+ hour battery life is only possible with intigrated graphics or two batteries
I get that on my 12"iBook with a Radeon 9200 Mobility and single battery today if I lower the brightness a little. Every piece of news I have seen too indicates that future laptop processors will use less power. Windows laptop makers are talking of 6-7 hour battery life as well for future laptops. I don't think it is unreasonable.
Originally posted by cwestpha
Wide screen is a must for the higher ends modles. Apple has made it clear they are going for the HD future and all HD video requires a wide screen.
Sure, I have no issue with larger widescreen models. I just don't feel it's that practical for a 12" screen. Either you lose screen real estate or the the resoltion is so high that text is too fine to read. The DPI of the current iBook is 106DPI I believe and without being able to change system font sizes like Windows, any more would be a problem.
Originally posted by MattB
Well according to ATI that doesn't seem to be a problem.
I get that on my 12"iBook with a Radeon 9200 Mobility and single battery today if I lower the brightness a little. Every piece of news I have seen too indicates that future laptop processors will use less power. Windows laptop makers are talking of 6-7 hour battery life as well for future laptops. I don't think it is unreasonable.
I think the problem with battery life is the batteries, not other components. Batteries today are bulky, heavy and don't last nearly enough. Of course, that's not just an Apple problem, but it is an area where R&D $$$ could be invested.
Well according to ATI that doesn't seem to be a problem.
http://www.ati.com/products/MobilityRadeonx700/
http://www.ati.com/products/MobilityRadeonx800/
I sell whitebooks (third pary notebooks). With the release of Sonoma the platform took a little bit of a power hit. Despite lowering power with including SATA, DDR2 (on die termination is a big plus for laptops), and a few other tweeks the inclusion of PCI-Express negated all of those benefits. one line of mobile PCI-express takes up the same power as a 4x AGP implementation. So every 1 line to that graphics card will decrease your battery life by a few minuits. That is why ATI and NVIDIA have their portable PCI-express chips drop down to one or two lanes when on battery and go back up to 4 or (sometimes) 8 when pluged in. It saves ten to fifteen minutes droping the performance. Granted the LCD still sucks up more power then any other component, that is why most people are praying for OLED screen soon (no more backlight).
Oh, and the stuff ATI and Nvidia tell system intigrators and the public are often different. They have to tell us some of the tricks they use to make the PR true.
I get that on my 12"iBook with a Radeon 9200 Mobility and single battery today if I lower the brightness a little. Every piece of news I have seen too indicates that future laptop processors will use less power. Windows laptop makers are talking of 6-7 hour battery life as well for future laptops. I don't think it is unreasonable.
The components that suck up power in a Sonoma based DTR: Monitor, GPU, optical drive, CPU, hard drive, wifi, northbridge (wifi and northbridge are sometimes about the same when not searching).
Monitor improvements are done through light sensors and soon sensors detecting where you are actualy looking and dimming that part of the screen. In five to ten years expect OLED screens that drop screen power usage by 70%+.
GPU: GPus are keept in place through clock throteling and manipulation of active PCI-express lanes. Soon we will start seeing good gate clocking/throteling implementations in mobile GPUs.
Optical Drive: you have a motor, often multiple lasers, and they are now spinning at over 12x DVD speed.
CPU: Currently improvements are done through manipulation of gates (changing gate construction material, ability to turn off portions of the chip, etc) and the KISS method to design (keep it simple stupid). With Yonah we will have dual core processors that, when on battery power, will switch between the two cores to keep heat down (gates leak more the hotter they get).
Hard drive: Currently hard drive consumption is keept down by keeping then spinning slower then in desktops. In the future hybrid drives will come out that use large "smart caches" of about 64 to 256 megs in size to store most of the information used in normal work. This will result in a 90%+ drop in hard drive power and access usage with transfers in the 100s of megs a seccond for everyday usage. Also this will allow "instant on" in many circumstances. The OS will save the basic OS components and active application components in the smart cache before going into hibrinate. You can then turn on your computer and as the drive spins up it will quickly load all of the basic OS components and everything else. By then the drive has spun up and has started sending the rest of the information and this cuts down access time and speed. Furthermore since most people dont do multimedia things often it would be simple to transfer documents and other commonly used files that wont fit in memory to the smart cache and you now have read/wite speeds over 100 megs a seccond.
This is actualy something Microsoft is trying to push with a few other companies for Longhorn. just think what a 30%+ speed increase in hard drive access could do? This also cuts down on how often that hard drive needs to spin up and read so it drematicly cuts down power there too.
Then again this is from my experience as a system intigrator and PC repair specialist.
Sure, I have no issue with larger widescreen models. I just don't feel it's that practical for a 12" screen. Either you lose screen real estate or the the resoltion is so high that text is too fine to read. The DPI of the current iBook is 106DPI I believe and without being able to change system font sizes like Windows, any more would be a problem.
true, the worst thing you can do for power is to increase screen size. And having a 12" wide screen is insain using Apple LCDs (there are some ultra density ones that when teamed up with a OS that suports proper font scaling looks great). Infact I want Apple to make HD screens for their powebook line. I want as wondeful a picture on a HD one as on a 15 or 17 inch powerbook.
I think the problem with battery life is the batteries, not other components. Batteries today are bulky, heavy and don't last nearly enough. Of course, that's not just an Apple problem, but it is an area where R&D $$$ could be invested.
Well there is a physical limit to how the density of battery fluids. Apple could use the space in their batterys more smartly (they do wast a pretty good amount of space), but most of the problem is physical. You can fit in more l-ion electrochemicals without making the battery physicly bigger or compressing the chemicles (which makes it heavier anyways, is more costly, and is more dangerus).
Fuel cells are the best bet. Those are 10 years off before they become common in laptops though.
where is the future of any laptop the neat thing about apple they are year or so ahead of other companies, no one other than apple is willing to make a mark, and take a chance, e.g. no floppy, usb, titanium the list goes on. so you need to think 2 years ahead on the typical cows of wintel to see the apple future which will put a major spark in the industry. that's why intel likes the synergy. they want to move faster ahead to flex it's muscles compared to rivals.
Apple is both ahead and behind. Apple controls the platform so they can do a 180 turn m uch faster then someone with a larger install base and competition with the platform components. It also helps that Apple targets people that tend to have more money then the bottom of the line Dell market. They can put premium features in a premium package easily.
USB was actualy a IBM compatable technology, FireWire was the Apple technology. It was a few years latter that Apple fully embrased USB. Also I would like to point out that the thinkpad actualy tends to be where new laptop technologies are tried out first (touch pad improvements, sudden motion sensor, new Centrino technologies, light sensors, etc).
Apple however does like to be bleeding edge whenever it comes to media. Everything else they tend to be slightly ahead of the IBM compatable generic market.
where is the future of any laptop the neat thing about apple they are year or so ahead of other companies, no one other than apple is willing to make a mark, and take a chance, e.g. no floppy, usb, titanium the list goes on. so you need to think 2 years ahead on the typical cows of wintel to see the apple future which will put a major spark in the industry. that's why intel likes the synergy. they want to move faster ahead to flex it's muscles compared to rivals. [/
QUOTE]
Yup, Apple is REALLY at the forefront of laptop technology!
Like 2 years ahead of this (dual-core 64-bit):
http://www.rockdirect.com/notebooks/xtreme64_bus.htm
and 2 years ahead of this (64-bit laptop):
http://us.acer.com/acerpanam/page4.d...crc=2064579363
Look at the GPU's on these puppies, and they both officially support XP x64.
Of course my price point favorites are from HP, such as:
http://h71016.www7.hp.com/MiddleFram...D=19701&SBLID=
http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/sh...computer_store
http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/sh...computer_store
http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/sh...computer_store
http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/sh...computer_store
All of the HP's can be reasonably tricked out in the $1500-$1700 price range, the Ferrari can be had for $2K, of course the RockHard is a tad spendy at ~$5K (US). Of course, HP dosen't officially support x64 on their laptop line (yet, but it appears that they are working on it now), but end users have successfully installed x64 on the ZV6000 and the R4000 with a full set of working drivers.
BTW, HP has also just announced the ML-40 (2.2GHz Turion's) for the nx6125, on the same day that AMD officially released them!
Yup, your right, Apple is definately -2 years ahead of the Wintel crowd!
However, I do have some encouragement for you, Yugo has announced they will use the new embedded G4 in their soon to be re-released autos:
http://www.zastava.cz/
Yugo jokes anyone?
No, CIJ didn't get it right, 2005 isn't the year of HD, it IS the year of the LAPTOP (check the units sold of laptop's versus desktop's over the past 12 months or so)!
I would like to point out that the last thing any consumer wants right now is XP 64. The drivers currently avalible for it are limited, buggy, missing features, or doent perform as well as those for 32-bit.
Lastly why would you want an HP laptop, they just break with a tech support staff that just bills you for warentee repair (its quite sad actualy). Atleast apple honors there warentee when it's stuff breaks.
P.S. If you buy an Acer you cant even uprade the memory yourself without voiding all warentees your laptop may fall under.
Originally posted by cwestpha
Actualy this holiday season and next year is going to be the year of HD once HDTVs reach under the $1,000 mark and all of the HighDef DVD formats.
I would like to point out that the last thing any consumer wants right now is XP 64. The drivers currently avalible for it are limited, buggy, missing features, or doent perform as well as those for 32-bit.
Lastly why would you want an HP laptop, they just break with a tech support staff that just bills you for warentee repair (its quite sad actualy). Atleast apple honors there warentee when it's stuff breaks.
P.S. If you buy an Acer you cant even uprade the memory yourself without voiding all warentees your laptop may fall under.
HP's 1-year limited warranty:
http://h20179.www2.hp.com/HPTotalCar...ty.html#return
Acer's 1-year limited warranty:
http://global.acer.com/support/itw_limit.htm
Apple's 1-year limited warranty:
http://www.apple.com/legal/warranty/hardware.html
All 3 are 12 month limited warranty's, I believe these are fairly standard in the industry, I believe all 3 have language such that ANY non-approved modifications/parts void their respective warranties, this I assume would be anything including end user memory upgrades (I may be wrong here, but one would think that the language would need to be fairly explicit). Also, each warranty states that parts and labor are included for the first year, where does it say that HP charges for warranty service? Could you please point me to the specific manufacturer's website URL's to correct me if I'm wrong here? Nevertheless, a warranty has never stopped me in the past (I've installed upgrades for every removable part of several computers, and I'm batting 1000% (so far)). So what if I "technically" void the warranty, oops, I broke something by installing something that broke the computer, oops, I installed the original equipment and returned said computer to the manufacturer, oops, the manufacturer repairs said computer at no expense to me (and pays for the shipping to boot). Dishonest? Yes! Do I care? No, not in the least!
So you don't like XP x64? Too buggy you say? I could have a dual-boot (XP x32/x64), or quad-boot (XP x32/x64/Linux x32/x64) setup? How do you like them Apple(s)? "Options, I like options." But who cares, for I write 64-bit FORTRAN (uni/vector/parallel) code (yes a relic I know (at least to non-engineers/scientists) but still the best game in town for true speed freaks (FORTRAN 2003 anyone?)), and have done so on supercomputers for over 10 years now. And I need to go really, really, REALLY fast (Yes, a Ferrari suits me just fine), in a very, very, VERY portable fashion. I don't really need a GUI, but its nice to have one, all I really need is a fast CPU, fast DDR, vanilla LCD, and fast HD! If I really need the rest of the laptop functioning, I'll use x32 whatever.
BTW, look what I found for Linux:
http://linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/reviews/5851/1/
http://www.linuxcertified.com/linux-laptop-lc2464.html
http://www.intel.com/cd/software/pro...flin/index.htm
http://www.intel.com/cd/software/pro...clin/index.htm
BTW, look what I found for XP:
http://www.intel.com/cd/software/pro...fwin/index.htm
http://www.intel.com/cd/software/pro...cwin/index.htm
http://www.absoft.com/Products/Compi...compilers.html
BTW, look what I found for Mac OS X:
http://www.absoft.com/Products/Compi...h/OSX/OSX.html
http://www.absoft.com/Products/Clusters/hpcsdk_osx.html
Unfortunately, neither 64-bit compiler will work on Apple's SlowerBook (and probably won't work on the first MacTel laptops, since It's rumored that they will be dual-core 32-bit Yonah's). So no, Apple is NOT at the forefront of laptop technology, and will not be at the forefront of laptop technology for the foreseeable future!
Apple's laptops may look like a Ferrari, but they still have a Yugo engine!
Finally, 1-2 months of HD DVD product availability does not make "2005 the year of HD," $1000 HD DVD players does not make "2005 the year of HD," $3-10K HD camcorders does not make "2005 the year of HD." When the price point comes down to the Joe Sixpack level, then you can say that "2007 is the year of HD."
BTW, my name's Bill O'Cracker, you'd know me from the O'Cracker Factor!
Such a notebook would likely have a 13" widescreen display, and maybe even an 11" model, who knows.
As far as the Powerbook proper, I want brighter, higher resolution screens more than anything.
(By the way, I think that with the new 14" and 15" iBook, the 12" model will become the "iBook mini," but that's kinda off-topic.)
What isn't off-topic is that I think that we could see the new Powerbook as early as MWSF - and yes, with Intel Inside. The Powerbook seems to be the ideal place to launch the "Mactel" platform - not only is it where a new processor is needed most, but it's also one of Apple's "flagship" products, and you had better bet that the sleek new Powerbook would be plastered on the cover of every computer magazine. Who knows...maybe we'll see all of Apple's notebooks go Intel there (rampant speculation is fun!).
I wonder if a hundred gigs of pc133 ram would still be faster than fiber channel?
Originally posted by franksargent
I believe all 3 have language such that ANY non-approved modifications/parts void their respective warranties, this I assume would be anything including end user memory upgrades (I may be wrong here, but one would think that the language would need to be fairly explicit).
Yes, you are wrong, at least as far as the Apple hardware is concerned. Apple even includes detailed instructions in the user manual on how to install extra memory. Guess you are not a Mac user
Also, each warranty states that parts and labor are included for the first year, where does it say that HP charges for warranty service? Could you please point me to the specific manufacturer's website URL's to correct me if I'm wrong here?
Although it is to cwestpha to respond to your question, I think (s)he means that HP will often try to charge you for repairs under warranty, pretending that you broke something, not that this is an official warranty term. This happens at times in the Apple side too, but it is rare.
Originally posted by Hattig
I think he meant a 'Dashboard' key on the keyboard.
this is my only complaint with Tiger, the expose key is the same as the eject key on a standard (non-apple) USB keyboard, his is annoying for 2 reasons, when I eject a DVD/DC i get dashboard and when I bring up dashboard and hold the key a minnisecond too long it ejects the CD...I would love to see the default keymap fixe3d in this respect (but changing it in prefs isnt a big deal either)
ehile I am posting, the change I would like to see is more durable enclosures, the aluminum on the display models (I don't acctually own one) seems so soft, and I have heard that it dents and dings easily...to me this is un-acceptable...I don't beat the hell outa things but I want it to hold up if something would happen...
Originally posted by Hattig
I think he meant a 'Dashboard' key on the keyboard.
this is my only complaint with Tiger, the expose key is the same as the eject key on a standard (non-apple) USB keyboard, his is annoying for 2 reasons, when I eject a DVD/DC i get dashboard and when I bring up dashboard and hold the key a minnisecond too long it ejects the CD...I would love to see the default keymap fixe3d in this respect (but changing it in prefs isnt a big deal either)
ehile I am posting, the change I would like to see is more durable enclosures, the aluminum on the display models (I don't acctually own one) seems so soft, and I have heard that it dents and dings easily...to me this is un-acceptable...I don't beat the hell outa things but I want it to hold up if something would happen...