A dual-dual core on the mid-range PowerMac would definately tilt my decision; if it only makes it to the top-o-the line, I'll have to pass. No D-D-core and they better have a price drop.
The earlier post is spot on. All the frantic activity here is based on rumors. Apple has to sit back and shake their collective heads as the rumors flow forth and people, including me, get up for, then disappointed at, what is or isn't happening. It is like the recent Apple stock selloff - let's get this straight, people sold because Apple, while posting record profits, didn't make someone else's ESTIMATE of what their sales would be? How insane is that?
I say, keep selling, so the price drops and the rest of us can buy.
As to dualies, yes, YES, dual-dual would be butt-kicking great PPC products in the pipeline. I fear there is no price drop, and dual-dual will only be at the top. We'll have to see where the prices come in, but I suspect the top is too rich for me, which may leave me buying the midrange - usually the best value, and a whole lot faster than what I have now. But - dual/dual would be sweet.
Either way, I need a PB and a PM both, so I'll be very interested when they arrive. But I'm not buying anyone's timetable any more.
does anyone think they could run 4 of the regular existing G5 processors in the new PM's? heat would be an issue I'm sure. Also, if they intro a new lineup would the middle of the road machine be slower than the current 2.7?
A single 970MP in the bottom 2 machines seems like a waste... they should run 2 970MP's
does anyone think they could run 4 of the regular existing G5 processors in the new PM's? heat would be an issue I'm sure. Also, if they intro a new lineup would the middle of the road machine be slower than the current 2.7?
A single 970MP in the bottom 2 machines seems like a waste... they should run 2 970MP's
Well, it won't be the '3 gig' I was hoping to buy.
But, let's face it. Moving to dual dual core for something like Lightwave will be significant. And there won't be that much difference between it and the next PowerMac upgrade before the Intel transition.
Dual Dual Core 2.5?
Dual Dual Core 3.0?
Not worth waiting for another 9 months eg next July or Sept when the pattern of IBM's updates to the G5 is pretty well mapped out. ie Slow progress.
I'll be getting a Dual Dual Core 2.5 if it is there.
You'd be insane not to. It should wipe the floor with anything else out there on multithreaded apps.
.I'll be getting a Dual Dual Core 2.5 if it is there.
You'd be insane not to. It should wipe the floor with anything else out there on multithreaded apps.
Lemon Bon Bon
I'm afraid I must respectfully disagree with that statement or at least qualify it. It will wipe the floor with anything else if you are using Apple apps or Altivec enabled apps. But in cross-platform apps like Lightwave, Maya or Nuendo (all of which I use) a dual dual-core opteron box is still going to be WAY faster/more powerful. I will admit it may not be cheaper though (that may not matter so much to the target user) esp. once you start adding QuadroFX's....
I'm afraid I must respectfully disagree with that statement or at least qualify it. It will wipe the floor with anything else if you are using Apple apps or Altivec enabled apps. But in cross-platform apps like Lightwave, Maya or Nuendo (all of which I use) a dual dual-core opteron box is still going to be WAY faster/more powerful. I will admit it may not be cheaper though (that may not matter so much to the target user) esp. once you start adding QuadroFX's....
Gee, I guess the best way you could 'respectfully disagree with that statement or at least qualify it' would be to actually run them against each other...
Oh, wait, you can't do that yet, therefore you must (indeed) be talking out of your arse...
MOSR has this story about how some Apple 'sources' are telling them that there will be a 4 cpu PowerMac, but it will not be with dual 970MPs, but rather with four 970FXa processors, which these sources are saying the choice to use the four has to do with shared frontside bus technology as a limit for the 970MPs.
However, it also sounds like there will be the 970MPs coming, whether that will be announced Weds, or not, did not seem detailed in the story.
It seems just a bit confusing to have arrival of both of these imminent.
The way Apple keeps everything so top secret. No telling until Wed! What ever comes along we do know it will have:
DDR2, PCIe, and a PPC chip.... other than that I think all of these sites are hit and miss.......... and I bet they are on their best behavior with Apple's legal teams watching them.... Just look at the iMac and Video iPod... we knew something was coming but not exactly... kudos to Team Apple!
Really, I lost my excitement and frustration...if they do keep pushing stuff back I'll wait to spend the big bucks for the rev.B intel PM, as will many others. Everyday is a day closer to there release! For all we know all the PM/PB talk could be a smokescreen for Photo Pro. We could see a big fat nothing or shitty updates AGAIN... I hope not but who knows............I was going to buy something if announced last week... then the announcement came for "PRO" stuff... this is the last event for me.... I have to buy... time is money.. a G4/733 can't do AE very fast...
The way Apple keeps everything so top secret. No telling until Wed! What ever comes along we do know it will have:
DDR2, PCIe, and a PPC chip.... other than that I think all of these sites are hit and miss..........
The first two are a given , what with the 'new' iMac having these also...
Quote:
Originally posted by namachtag
...if they do keep pushing stuff back I'll wait to spend the big bucks for the rev.B intel PM, as will many others.
I feel pretty confident that this machine will have Dual dual-core 970MPs, with the only real 'upgrade' between their release & the first of the Intel-powered PowerMacs (WWDC '06?!?) being faster CPUs & more/larger RAM/HDDs,,,
Quote:
Originally posted by namachtag
A toast to Wed... may we be surprised this time!
I am looking for SLI out the gate with these 'last of a breed' PowerMacs, that would be the surprise for me...
These machines should sell pretty well to those who have a need for them now... The folks who complain about not having this feature or that implementation of said arbitrary feature are usually just fence-sitters anyway, not ready to get the work to pay for the machine...
I am looking for SLI out the gate with these 'last of a breed' PowerMacs, that would be the surprise for me...
I don't see this happening for PPC for a number of reasons.
This is not heavily developed for 2D, and 3D graphics yet in SLI-1, and mostly used for gaming.
Games are not that big on the Mac side, and most people don't buy Macs just to game on because game availability is dominantly PC.
I don't expect game developers to suddenly move over to the Mac to produce games for the last in line of PPC Macs.
And probably the best reason is that PPC Macs just don't have the kind of graphic card options to choose from that would make this an attractive option to a greater number of consumers.
MOSR has this story about how some Apple 'sources' are telling them that there will be a 4 cpu PowerMac, but it will not be with dual 970MPs, but rather with four 970FXa processors, which these sources are saying the choice to use the four has to do with shared frontside bus technology as a limit for the 970MPs.
However, it also sounds like there will be the 970MPs coming, whether that will be announced Weds, or not, did not seem detailed in the story.
It seems just a bit confusing to have arrival of both of these imminent.
This is very unlikely -- the current chipset is pushing the complexity limits now and adding 2 extra FSB ports would make it far worse, not to mention that it is the end of the line as the next major update will be Intel. Power/heat would be a bigger issue than with a pair of dual cores as well. Besides, memory is already a bottleneck so "solving" the FSB bottleneck in this way would actually help much.
This is very unlikely -- the current chipset is pushing the complexity limits now and adding 2 extra FSB ports would make it far worse, not to mention that it is the end of the line as the next major update will be Intel. Power/heat would be a bigger issue than with a pair of dual cores as well. Besides, memory is already a bottleneck so "solving" the FSB bottleneck in this way would actually help much.
One of the many reasons we poke so much fun at MOSR.
In the thread "Apple media event to kick-off tomorrow at noon"
Chopper3 posted:
"Just spoke to a mate who has signed an apple nda, we're in for more disappointment I'm afraid. Minor speedbumps, bigger HDs on the PBs, nothing else sorry. Pretty-much just speed-bumps on the PMs as well, nothing of any real interest. Sorry. Guess they're holding all the cool stuff back for the intels"
They will at least have PCIe, DDR2.... or at least they had better! Not long to wait now!
In the thread "Apple media event to kick-off tomorrow at noon"
Chopper3 posted:
"Just spoke to a mate who has signed an apple nda, we're in for more disappointment I'm afraid. Minor speedbumps, bigger HDs on the PBs, nothing else sorry. Pretty-much just speed-bumps on the PMs as well, nothing of any real interest. Sorry. Guess they're holding all the cool stuff back for the intels"
They will at least have PCIe, DDR2.... or at least they had better! Not long to wait now!
The proper term for this would be 'downer'. Some time the new 970 MPs must come out. What would be the point of making them if they were never to be seen? Apple must surely plan to make as much use of any advancement that it can, before the switch to intel chips.
I must look forward to a last shining moment for the PPC. 'Twill seem to be a long wait if things are just shut in to the basement.
The proper term for this would be 'downer'. Some time the new 970 MPs must come out. What would be the point of making them if they were never to be seen? Apple must surely plan to make as much use of any advancement that it can, before the switch to intel chips.
I must look forward to a last shining moment for the PPC. 'Twill seem to be a long wait if things are just shut in to the basement.
Why? Apple would have to revamp the motherboard to do that, and to only use that motherboard for one revision would be a loss of design $$$, and revamp money, that probably should go to the intel designs. The Apple board design has always lasted through like 5-6 speedbups, or sets of PowerMacs previously. That might change with intel inside. but they wouldn't be getting their moneys worth for the design if they did a revision to it right now.
They already know a lot of users are just going to let the PPC pass right by until the intel revisions come, and they might as well just squeeze these old ones as much as they can because the old processor designs are cheaper, the motherboard design has already paid for itself, and they may have intel machines coming sooner than they had planned back at WWDC.
Intel has been ahead of schedule on their new processors, and I think Apple would rather see an intel based Mac sooner than later.
I'm pretty sure all of Apples Applications are ready for intel by now, and with how fast some venders got their Applications running on intel after WWDC; I don't think PPC matters to them. Plus, rosetta is always there to help out. Might as well start the transition when we are ready for something big to happen to give us all something to talk about, and continual products to look forward to, and speculate on.
Why? Apple would have to revamp the motherboard to do that, and to only use that motherboard for one revision would be a loss of design $$$, and revamp money, that probably should go to the intel designs.
Sorry a head of time for the long post:
From as early as March there has been signs that they have been working on motherboards or something to do with dual core.... Look through the posts of apples past! I'm sure that they were developing these new machines in advance of the big INTEL announcement. It has been IBM that is the hold up, as it has been all along. As far as loss of design $$$.... they will at least be able to recoup some they had already spent by releasing developed tech... not to mention I'm sure they can write off the expenses as a loss too.....they aren't some mom and pop shop but a large corporation that can absorb some loss.. It is called being in business. What happens if there are problems with the intel PM's? They just going to keep increasing the standard ram and HD's?
Also, I wouldn't be so sure that all of the apps are going to be magically converted. I work in software development for multiple platforms... it can be a difficult task. Especially to get ports running smoothly.... I see the benefit in getting something that all software will perform on now (PPC). Time is money... and in the working world a machine is outdated after 2 years in heavy media intensive tasks. Debate all you want, PM's lag behind WinTels as far as raw power.... I'm sure there are a ton who will flame me for that but it is the truth... like it or not. I am an apple fan that has never owned a Intel PC, I started on a Apple ][+, and I own stock in Apple... I love Apple... just see it the way it is. At least with the Intel switch it will be an even field... and OSX will shine!
The last project I finished cost $10 million dollars.. costs are a concern but in the larger picture PPC/INTEL Macintosh is trivial, the time frames for project due dates are not. Buggy new versions of software can cause headaches! It may cost a company more if they take more time to release a product. It's called efficiency.
For the average home or small office user/print graphic designer which keeps a machine longer than 2 years I can see holding out 1 year....
Comments
Originally posted by MacTitan
A dual-dual core on the mid-range PowerMac would definately tilt my decision; if it only makes it to the top-o-the line, I'll have to pass. No D-D-core and they better have a price drop.
The earlier post is spot on. All the frantic activity here is based on rumors. Apple has to sit back and shake their collective heads as the rumors flow forth and people, including me, get up for, then disappointed at, what is or isn't happening. It is like the recent Apple stock selloff - let's get this straight, people sold because Apple, while posting record profits, didn't make someone else's ESTIMATE of what their sales would be? How insane is that?
I say, keep selling, so the price drops and the rest of us can buy.
As to dualies, yes, YES, dual-dual would be butt-kicking great PPC products in the pipeline. I fear there is no price drop, and dual-dual will only be at the top. We'll have to see where the prices come in, but I suspect the top is too rich for me, which may leave me buying the midrange - usually the best value, and a whole lot faster than what I have now. But - dual/dual would be sweet.
Either way, I need a PB and a PM both, so I'll be very interested when they arrive. But I'm not buying anyone's timetable any more.
A single 970MP in the bottom 2 machines seems like a waste... they should run 2 970MP's
A single 970MP in the bottom 2 machines seems like a waste... they should run 2 970MP's
But, let's face it. Moving to dual dual core for something like Lightwave will be significant. And there won't be that much difference between it and the next PowerMac upgrade before the Intel transition.
Dual Dual Core 2.5?
Dual Dual Core 3.0?
Not worth waiting for another 9 months eg next July or Sept when the pattern of IBM's updates to the G5 is pretty well mapped out. ie Slow progress.
I'll be getting a Dual Dual Core 2.5 if it is there.
You'd be insane not to. It should wipe the floor with anything else out there on multithreaded apps.
Lemon Bon Bon
Originally posted by namachtag
does anyone think they could run 4 of the regular existing G5 processors in the new PM's?
No, because that would require a whole new chipset with a bunch of extra pins.
Also, if they intro a new lineup would the middle of the road machine be slower than the current 2.7?
Maybe the current 2.7 will be the middle machine.
With dual 16x SLI...
Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
.I'll be getting a Dual Dual Core 2.5 if it is there.
You'd be insane not to. It should wipe the floor with anything else out there on multithreaded apps.
Lemon Bon Bon
I'm afraid I must respectfully disagree with that statement or at least qualify it. It will wipe the floor with anything else if you are using Apple apps or Altivec enabled apps. But in cross-platform apps like Lightwave, Maya or Nuendo (all of which I use) a dual dual-core opteron box is still going to be WAY faster/more powerful. I will admit it may not be cheaper though
Originally posted by Thereubster
I'm afraid I must respectfully disagree with that statement or at least qualify it. It will wipe the floor with anything else if you are using Apple apps or Altivec enabled apps. But in cross-platform apps like Lightwave, Maya or Nuendo (all of which I use) a dual dual-core opteron box is still going to be WAY faster/more powerful. I will admit it may not be cheaper though
Gee, I guess the best way you could 'respectfully disagree with that statement or at least qualify it' would be to actually run them against each other...
Oh, wait, you can't do that yet, therefore you must (indeed) be talking out of your arse...
However, it also sounds like there will be the 970MPs coming, whether that will be announced Weds, or not, did not seem detailed in the story.
It seems just a bit confusing to have arrival of both of these imminent.
DDR2, PCIe, and a PPC chip.... other than that I think all of these sites are hit and miss.......... and I bet they are on their best behavior with Apple's legal teams watching them.... Just look at the iMac and Video iPod... we knew something was coming but not exactly... kudos to Team Apple!
Really, I lost my excitement and frustration...if they do keep pushing stuff back I'll wait to spend the big bucks for the rev.B intel PM, as will many others. Everyday is a day closer to there release! For all we know all the PM/PB talk could be a smokescreen for Photo Pro. We could see a big fat nothing or shitty updates AGAIN... I hope not but who knows............I was going to buy something if announced last week... then the announcement came for "PRO" stuff... this is the last event for me.... I have to buy... time is money.. a G4/733 can't do AE very fast...
A toast to Wed... may we be surprised this time!
Originally posted by namachtag
The way Apple keeps everything so top secret. No telling until Wed! What ever comes along we do know it will have:
DDR2, PCIe, and a PPC chip.... other than that I think all of these sites are hit and miss..........
The first two are a given , what with the 'new' iMac having these also...
Originally posted by namachtag
...if they do keep pushing stuff back I'll wait to spend the big bucks for the rev.B intel PM, as will many others.
I feel pretty confident that this machine will have Dual dual-core 970MPs, with the only real 'upgrade' between their release & the first of the Intel-powered PowerMacs (WWDC '06?!?) being faster CPUs & more/larger RAM/HDDs,,,
Originally posted by namachtag
A toast to Wed... may we be surprised this time!
I am looking for SLI out the gate with these 'last of a breed' PowerMacs, that would be the surprise for me...
These machines should sell pretty well to those who have a need for them now... The folks who complain about not having this feature or that implementation of said arbitrary feature are usually just fence-sitters anyway, not ready to get the work to pay for the machine...
Originally posted by MacRonin
I am looking for SLI out the gate with these 'last of a breed' PowerMacs, that would be the surprise for me...
I don't see this happening for PPC for a number of reasons.
Originally posted by NordicMan
MOSR has this story about how some Apple 'sources' are telling them that there will be a 4 cpu PowerMac, but it will not be with dual 970MPs, but rather with four 970FXa processors, which these sources are saying the choice to use the four has to do with shared frontside bus technology as a limit for the 970MPs.
However, it also sounds like there will be the 970MPs coming, whether that will be announced Weds, or not, did not seem detailed in the story.
It seems just a bit confusing to have arrival of both of these imminent.
This is very unlikely -- the current chipset is pushing the complexity limits now and adding 2 extra FSB ports would make it far worse, not to mention that it is the end of the line as the next major update will be Intel. Power/heat would be a bigger issue than with a pair of dual cores as well. Besides, memory is already a bottleneck so "solving" the FSB bottleneck in this way would actually help much.
Originally posted by Programmer
This is very unlikely -- the current chipset is pushing the complexity limits now and adding 2 extra FSB ports would make it far worse, not to mention that it is the end of the line as the next major update will be Intel. Power/heat would be a bigger issue than with a pair of dual cores as well. Besides, memory is already a bottleneck so "solving" the FSB bottleneck in this way would actually help much.
One of the many reasons we poke so much fun at MOSR.
Chopper3 posted:
"Just spoke to a mate who has signed an apple nda, we're in for more disappointment I'm afraid. Minor speedbumps, bigger HDs on the PBs, nothing else sorry. Pretty-much just speed-bumps on the PMs as well, nothing of any real interest. Sorry. Guess they're holding all the cool stuff back for the intels"
They will at least have PCIe, DDR2.... or at least they had better! Not long to wait now!
Originally posted by namachtag
In the thread "Apple media event to kick-off tomorrow at noon"
Chopper3 posted:
"Just spoke to a mate who has signed an apple nda, we're in for more disappointment I'm afraid. Minor speedbumps, bigger HDs on the PBs, nothing else sorry. Pretty-much just speed-bumps on the PMs as well, nothing of any real interest. Sorry. Guess they're holding all the cool stuff back for the intels"
They will at least have PCIe, DDR2.... or at least they had better! Not long to wait now!
The proper term for this would be 'downer'. Some time the new 970 MPs must come out. What would be the point of making them if they were never to be seen? Apple must surely plan to make as much use of any advancement that it can, before the switch to intel chips.
I must look forward to a last shining moment for the PPC. 'Twill seem to be a long wait if things are just shut in to the basement.
Originally posted by NordicMan
The proper term for this would be 'downer'. Some time the new 970 MPs must come out. What would be the point of making them if they were never to be seen? Apple must surely plan to make as much use of any advancement that it can, before the switch to intel chips.
I must look forward to a last shining moment for the PPC. 'Twill seem to be a long wait if things are just shut in to the basement.
Why? Apple would have to revamp the motherboard to do that, and to only use that motherboard for one revision would be a loss of design $$$, and revamp money, that probably should go to the intel designs. The Apple board design has always lasted through like 5-6 speedbups, or sets of PowerMacs previously. That might change with intel inside. but they wouldn't be getting their moneys worth for the design if they did a revision to it right now.
They already know a lot of users are just going to let the PPC pass right by until the intel revisions come, and they might as well just squeeze these old ones as much as they can because the old processor designs are cheaper, the motherboard design has already paid for itself, and they may have intel machines coming sooner than they had planned back at WWDC.
Intel has been ahead of schedule on their new processors, and I think Apple would rather see an intel based Mac sooner than later.
I'm pretty sure all of Apples Applications are ready for intel by now, and with how fast some venders got their Applications running on intel after WWDC; I don't think PPC matters to them. Plus, rosetta is always there to help out. Might as well start the transition when we are ready for something big to happen to give us all something to talk about, and continual products to look forward to, and speculate on.
Originally posted by onlooker
Why? Apple would have to revamp the motherboard to do that, and to only use that motherboard for one revision would be a loss of design $$$, and revamp money, that probably should go to the intel designs.
Sorry a head of time for the long post:
From as early as March there has been signs that they have been working on motherboards or something to do with dual core.... Look through the posts of apples past! I'm sure that they were developing these new machines in advance of the big INTEL announcement. It has been IBM that is the hold up, as it has been all along. As far as loss of design $$$.... they will at least be able to recoup some they had already spent by releasing developed tech... not to mention I'm sure they can write off the expenses as a loss too.....they aren't some mom and pop shop but a large corporation that can absorb some loss.. It is called being in business. What happens if there are problems with the intel PM's? They just going to keep increasing the standard ram and HD's?
Also, I wouldn't be so sure that all of the apps are going to be magically converted. I work in software development for multiple platforms... it can be a difficult task. Especially to get ports running smoothly.... I see the benefit in getting something that all software will perform on now (PPC). Time is money... and in the working world a machine is outdated after 2 years in heavy media intensive tasks. Debate all you want, PM's lag behind WinTels as far as raw power.... I'm sure there are a ton who will flame me for that but it is the truth... like it or not. I am an apple fan that has never owned a Intel PC, I started on a Apple ][+, and I own stock in Apple... I love Apple... just see it the way it is. At least with the Intel switch it will be an even field... and OSX will shine!
The last project I finished cost $10 million dollars.. costs are a concern but in the larger picture PPC/INTEL Macintosh is trivial, the time frames for project due dates are not. Buggy new versions of software can cause headaches! It may cost a company more if they take more time to release a product. It's called efficiency.
For the average home or small office user/print graphic designer which keeps a machine longer than 2 years I can see holding out 1 year....