The proper term for this would be 'downer'. Some time the new 970 MPs must come out. What would be the point of making them if they were never to be seen? Apple must surely plan to make as much use of any advancement that it can, before the switch to intel chips.
I must look forward to a last shining moment for the PPC. 'Twill seem to be a long wait if things are just shut in to the basement.
Why? Apple would have to revamp the motherboard to do that, and to only use that motherboard for one revision would be a loss of design $$$, and revamp money, that probably should go to the intel designs. The Apple board design has always lasted through like 5-6 speedbups, or sets of PowerMacs previously. That might change with intel inside. but they wouldn't be getting their moneys worth for the design if they did a revision to it right now.
They already know a lot of users are just going to let the PPC pass right by until the intel revisions come, and they might as well just squeeze these old ones as much as they can because the old processor designs are cheaper, the motherboard design has already paid for itself, and they may have intel machines coming sooner than they had planned back at WWDC.
Intel has been ahead of schedule on their new processors, and I think Apple would rather see an intel based Mac sooner than later.
I'm pretty sure all of Apples Applications are ready for intel by now, and with how fast some venders got their Applications running on intel after WWDC; I don't think PPC matters to them. Plus, rosetta is always there to help out. Might as well start the transition when we are ready for something big to happen to give us all something to talk about, and continual products to look forward to, and speculate on.
Why? Apple would have to revamp the motherboard to do that, and to only use that motherboard for one revision would be a loss of design $$$, and revamp money, that probably should go to the intel designs.
Sorry a head of time for the long post:
From as early as March there has been signs that they have been working on motherboards or something to do with dual core.... Look through the posts of apples past! I'm sure that they were developing these new machines in advance of the big INTEL announcement. It has been IBM that is the hold up, as it has been all along. As far as loss of design $$$.... they will at least be able to recoup some they had already spent by releasing developed tech... not to mention I'm sure they can write off the expenses as a loss too.....they aren't some mom and pop shop but a large corporation that can absorb some loss.. It is called being in business. What happens if there are problems with the intel PM's? They just going to keep increasing the standard ram and HD's?
Also, I wouldn't be so sure that all of the apps are going to be magically converted. I work in software development for multiple platforms... it can be a difficult task. Especially to get ports running smoothly.... I see the benefit in getting something that all software will perform on now (PPC). Time is money... and in the working world a machine is outdated after 2 years in heavy media intensive tasks. Debate all you want, PM's lag behind WinTels as far as raw power.... I'm sure there are a ton who will flame me for that but it is the truth... like it or not. I am an apple fan that has never owned a Intel PC, I started on a Apple ][+, and I own stock in Apple... I love Apple... just see it the way it is. At least with the Intel switch it will be an even field... and OSX will shine!
The last project I finished cost $10 million dollars.. costs are a concern but in the larger picture PPC/INTEL Macintosh is trivial, the time frames for project due dates are not. Buggy new versions of software can cause headaches! It may cost a company more if they take more time to release a product. It's called efficiency.
For the average home or small office user/print graphic designer which keeps a machine longer than 2 years I can see holding out 1 year....
From as early as March there has been signs that they have been working on motherboards or something to do with dual core.... Look through the posts of apples past! I'm sure that they were developing these new machines in advance of the big INTEL announcement. It has been IBM that is the hold up as it has been all along.
Ok, I read your post and agree with everything you said. But, a note on what I quoted. Apple may have had prototypes for some random dual core PPC processors, but that doesn't mean they are going to put them into production if the Intel processors were coming soon, and cost of revamping the line twice in a short time is more than they intend on spending in that time frame.
I know zip about about motherboard production, I know zip about computer assembly lines, but I do believe Apple will have a new PowerMac case design with intel, obviously a new motherboard as well, and it just seems more logical to revamp them both (case and board) once; when the PPC is through for that model. Rather than revamp an assembly system for the boards then revamp it again, and then change the assembly procedures, or whatever they do for the whole thing together with the new case design.
It also seems like if they do it the other way they also have to worry longer about assembly problems.
I think they will have the same case but change some features. Watch it will be anodized black or something.....I wish they would add another bay... the one DVD slot is funky... check out Think Secret's update.. what ever is coming tomorrow I'm getting one tomorrow!
Why? Apple would have to revamp the motherboard to do that, and to only use that motherboard for one revision would be a loss of design $$$, and revamp money, that probably should go to the intel designs. The Apple board design has always lasted through like 5-6 speedbups, or sets of PowerMacs previously. That might change with intel inside. but they wouldn't be getting their moneys worth for the design if they did a revision to it right now.
They already know a lot of users are just going to let the PPC pass right by until the intel revisions come, and they might as well just squeeze these old ones as much as they can because the old processor designs are cheaper, the motherboard design has already paid for itself, and they may have intel machines coming sooner than they had planned back at WWDC.
Intel has been ahead of schedule on their new processors, and I think Apple would rather see an intel based Mac sooner than later.
I'm pretty sure all of Apples Applications are ready for intel by now, and with how fast some venders got their Applications running on intel after WWDC; I don't think PPC matters to them. Plus, rosetta is always there to help out. Might as well start the transition when we are ready for something big to happen to give us all something to talk about, and continual products to look forward to, and speculate on.
Well, this is a late response, but if the iMac was updated, to make use of modern developments, in PCI e, and DDR 2, then it is difficult to fathom that the PowerMac, which a whole lot of professionals rely upon, will not be updated. A lot of people are looking for this, and would prefer a PPC that works well with existing software, and then go to an intel Mac after the switch is made, and things shake out a bit.
Yes, it is a good idea to start a transition when the waiting fans are up in hopes.
It just seems counterproductive to leave off from what has been a useful cpu design, when there is more potency available, that Apple has already been working on. When Apple went from G3 to G4, with the AltiVec, which necessitated developers taking advantage of it, they still made use of swifter G3 cpus, that worked. This example may be uneven in comparison.
I am ready for new PPC juice, I would likely wait to see how intel Macs do.
Well our guesses were right for once. It actually looks like quite a good update, IMO. The top of the line nVidia cards are certainly a relief -- hopefully their drivers are updated to match.
Now the problem is which one... the Quad is the best buy but you add ram and you are running into the 4k range. I wonder how much of an improvement the new 2.0/2.3 are compared to the old 2.0/2.3/2.7? I was dissapointed in the fact they don't offer the lower 2 models in quad formations... I'm sure the next rev would be the whole lineup being quads... that sucks because i need something now..... hopefullly barefeats will have some comparisons soon! I some link that said the new 2.3 was about equal to the old 2.5. The quad seems like the best deal to last way into the Intel revs...
Now the problem is which one... the Quad is the best buy but you add ram and you are running into the 4k range. I wonder how much of an improvement the new 2.0/2.3 are compared to the old 2.0/2.3/2.7? I was dissapointed in the fact they don't offer the lower 2 models in quad formations... I'm sure the next rev would be the whole lineup being quads... that sucks because i need something now..... hopefullly barefeats will have some comparisons soon! I some link that said the new 2.3 was about equal to the old 2.5. The quad seems like the best deal to last way into the Intel revs...
Well, there might be one more PowerMac revision where they all go quad. You could also get the quad with 1 GB and buy another 1 GB every six months for a few years to keep it fresh.
Comments
Originally posted by NordicMan
The proper term for this would be 'downer'. Some time the new 970 MPs must come out. What would be the point of making them if they were never to be seen? Apple must surely plan to make as much use of any advancement that it can, before the switch to intel chips.
I must look forward to a last shining moment for the PPC. 'Twill seem to be a long wait if things are just shut in to the basement.
Why? Apple would have to revamp the motherboard to do that, and to only use that motherboard for one revision would be a loss of design $$$, and revamp money, that probably should go to the intel designs. The Apple board design has always lasted through like 5-6 speedbups, or sets of PowerMacs previously. That might change with intel inside. but they wouldn't be getting their moneys worth for the design if they did a revision to it right now.
They already know a lot of users are just going to let the PPC pass right by until the intel revisions come, and they might as well just squeeze these old ones as much as they can because the old processor designs are cheaper, the motherboard design has already paid for itself, and they may have intel machines coming sooner than they had planned back at WWDC.
Intel has been ahead of schedule on their new processors, and I think Apple would rather see an intel based Mac sooner than later.
I'm pretty sure all of Apples Applications are ready for intel by now, and with how fast some venders got their Applications running on intel after WWDC; I don't think PPC matters to them. Plus, rosetta is always there to help out. Might as well start the transition when we are ready for something big to happen to give us all something to talk about, and continual products to look forward to, and speculate on.
Originally posted by onlooker
Why? Apple would have to revamp the motherboard to do that, and to only use that motherboard for one revision would be a loss of design $$$, and revamp money, that probably should go to the intel designs.
Sorry a head of time for the long post:
From as early as March there has been signs that they have been working on motherboards or something to do with dual core.... Look through the posts of apples past! I'm sure that they were developing these new machines in advance of the big INTEL announcement. It has been IBM that is the hold up, as it has been all along. As far as loss of design $$$.... they will at least be able to recoup some they had already spent by releasing developed tech... not to mention I'm sure they can write off the expenses as a loss too.....they aren't some mom and pop shop but a large corporation that can absorb some loss.. It is called being in business. What happens if there are problems with the intel PM's? They just going to keep increasing the standard ram and HD's?
Also, I wouldn't be so sure that all of the apps are going to be magically converted. I work in software development for multiple platforms... it can be a difficult task. Especially to get ports running smoothly.... I see the benefit in getting something that all software will perform on now (PPC). Time is money... and in the working world a machine is outdated after 2 years in heavy media intensive tasks. Debate all you want, PM's lag behind WinTels as far as raw power.... I'm sure there are a ton who will flame me for that but it is the truth... like it or not. I am an apple fan that has never owned a Intel PC, I started on a Apple ][+, and I own stock in Apple... I love Apple... just see it the way it is. At least with the Intel switch it will be an even field... and OSX will shine!
The last project I finished cost $10 million dollars.. costs are a concern but in the larger picture PPC/INTEL Macintosh is trivial, the time frames for project due dates are not. Buggy new versions of software can cause headaches! It may cost a company more if they take more time to release a product. It's called efficiency.
For the average home or small office user/print graphic designer which keeps a machine longer than 2 years I can see holding out 1 year....
Originally posted by onlooker
Why? Apple would have to revamp the motherboard to do that, and to only use that motherboard for one revision...
On the other hand they just did it for the iMac. The 970MP won't require design changes, it ought to just drop in (at least compared to DDR -> DDR2).
Originally posted by namachtag
Sorry a head of time for the long post:
From as early as March there has been signs that they have been working on motherboards or something to do with dual core.... Look through the posts of apples past! I'm sure that they were developing these new machines in advance of the big INTEL announcement. It has been IBM that is the hold up as it has been all along.
Ok, I read your post and agree with everything you said. But, a note on what I quoted. Apple may have had prototypes for some random dual core PPC processors, but that doesn't mean they are going to put them into production if the Intel processors were coming soon, and cost of revamping the line twice in a short time is more than they intend on spending in that time frame.
I know zip about about motherboard production, I know zip about computer assembly lines, but I do believe Apple will have a new PowerMac case design with intel, obviously a new motherboard as well, and it just seems more logical to revamp them both (case and board) once; when the PPC is through for that model. Rather than revamp an assembly system for the boards then revamp it again, and then change the assembly procedures, or whatever they do for the whole thing together with the new case design.
It also seems like if they do it the other way they also have to worry longer about assembly problems.
Originally posted by Programmer
On the other hand they just did it for the iMac. The 970MP won't require design changes, it ought to just drop in (at least compared to DDR -> DDR2).
970MP doesn't just drop in to a 970 socket, but I see your point, and It's a convincing one.
I think they will have the same case but change some features. Watch it will be anodized black or something.....I wish they would add another bay... the one DVD slot is funky... check out Think Secret's update.. what ever is coming tomorrow I'm getting one tomorrow!
Originally posted by onlooker
Why? Apple would have to revamp the motherboard to do that, and to only use that motherboard for one revision would be a loss of design $$$, and revamp money, that probably should go to the intel designs. The Apple board design has always lasted through like 5-6 speedbups, or sets of PowerMacs previously. That might change with intel inside. but they wouldn't be getting their moneys worth for the design if they did a revision to it right now.
They already know a lot of users are just going to let the PPC pass right by until the intel revisions come, and they might as well just squeeze these old ones as much as they can because the old processor designs are cheaper, the motherboard design has already paid for itself, and they may have intel machines coming sooner than they had planned back at WWDC.
Intel has been ahead of schedule on their new processors, and I think Apple would rather see an intel based Mac sooner than later.
I'm pretty sure all of Apples Applications are ready for intel by now, and with how fast some venders got their Applications running on intel after WWDC; I don't think PPC matters to them. Plus, rosetta is always there to help out. Might as well start the transition when we are ready for something big to happen to give us all something to talk about, and continual products to look forward to, and speculate on.
Well, this is a late response, but if the iMac was updated, to make use of modern developments, in PCI e, and DDR 2, then it is difficult to fathom that the PowerMac, which a whole lot of professionals rely upon, will not be updated. A lot of people are looking for this, and would prefer a PPC that works well with existing software, and then go to an intel Mac after the switch is made, and things shake out a bit.
Yes, it is a good idea to start a transition when the waiting fans are up in hopes.
It just seems counterproductive to leave off from what has been a useful cpu design, when there is more potency available, that Apple has already been working on. When Apple went from G3 to G4, with the AltiVec, which necessitated developers taking advantage of it, they still made use of swifter G3 cpus, that worked. This example may be uneven in comparison.
I am ready for new PPC juice, I would likely wait to see how intel Macs do.
thoughts anyone.
BTW, you Mods could probably move some of these threads in there.
Originally posted by onlooker
BTW, you Mods could probably move some of these threads in there.
Or better, lock this one since its mission has been accomplished.
Timeframe for next PowerMac?
Isn't there always a next PowerMac?
Originally posted by namachtag
Now the problem is which one... the Quad is the best buy but you add ram and you are running into the 4k range. I wonder how much of an improvement the new 2.0/2.3 are compared to the old 2.0/2.3/2.7? I was dissapointed in the fact they don't offer the lower 2 models in quad formations... I'm sure the next rev would be the whole lineup being quads... that sucks because i need something now..... hopefullly barefeats will have some comparisons soon! I some link that said the new 2.3 was about equal to the old 2.5. The quad seems like the best deal to last way into the Intel revs...
Well, there might be one more PowerMac revision where they all go quad. You could also get the quad with 1 GB and buy another 1 GB every six months for a few years to keep it fresh.