OK Guys- Size is an issue to me. My first PC laptop was a big bulky heavy sony vaio. It was like 1.5 inches thick and about 8 pounds.
Having a large desktop replacement with a huge 15 inch screen, "desktop class pentium 4", and whatever does not motivate me to pack up my laptop and take it with me when I'm on the go. I want something that I can just pick up when I need to leave, whip it into my bag, and not worrie about battery life, weight, etc.
I have my iBook on almost all day. All I do when I need to go to class is unhook all of my connections, close it, and stick it in my bag. The computer instantly goes asleep and the battery lasts a very long time.
One time I left for home on winter break, I live 7 hours from where I go to school, I just closed my iBook and stuck it in my backpack. Along with all of my DVDs. On the way home my friend and I watched a DVD and when we were finished we just closed the iBook back up (with about 35% of the battery left). When I got home I didn't use the iBook at all for about a week. It was still in my bag asleep the entire time. When I decided to check my e-mail I opened it up and it was only at 30%!!!
BTW- the iBook wakes from sleep instantly (in OS X).
The main thing that makes the Tibook and the iBook so appealing is the size and weight.
This winbook with the 2.2 GHz P4 is huge. The J4 or whatever. Check this out:
Size/Weight
Height: 1.64"/1.81" (41.8/46.2mm) (front/back)
Dimensions: 13.07"(332mm) x 10.8"(275mm) x 1.64/1.81"(41.8/46.2mm)
Unit Weight: 8.36 lbs (3.8kg) - w/15" SXGA+ LCD
Travel Weight: 9.46 lbs (4.3kg)
Nothing comes close to the iBooks size and price with a built in optical drive. Yes, you can get a cheaper laptop from dell or whoever but its going to be a lot bigger.
Yuck! that winbook is huge. What would want to make you pick this thing up and just stick it in your bag? I don't know about you but the reason for me getting a laptop was portablilty. If I wanted a desktop in my bag I would get a real desktop and stick it in there (its cheaper).
Heh, yeah, I don't mention some of the things like "built-in" antenna because most everyone does that. I assumed it would be obvious. So although I had misunderstood some of the facts on the iBook, they still come up short. I thought by saying the word "winbook" you might know the site to look at, I'll let you puzzle your way through that. So correction, you've said the iBook has 2 USB's (still 2 less) and combo and a modem and is keeping pace. Now where you come up w/ saying that the p4 2.2's only last 30 mins or a 400MHz bus isn't good just leaves me speechless. I'll remind my friends that there's should be going out any day now and that you would rather they trade down.</strong><hr></blockquote>
· Impressive ATI Mobile Radeon� 7500 w/64MB DDR Graphics
· 20 GB Hard Drive
· 256 MB SDRAM
· DVD-ROM Drive
· Microsoft Windows XP Professional
· No Wireless LAN (but this one has the integrated antenna)
Subtotal:Â* $1698.00
Of note.
Expected Battery Life 3 hours, power managed. (Getting closer to the 5 hours the iBook gives.)
DVD-ROM Drive, Not Combo.
Still only 2 USB ports. Where are you finding the other 2 ports here? Show me this wonder system.
[quote]<strong>Basically, what this means is ... we could go all day on the details of these systems (i.e. battery, weight, things more important to others or us that others don't prioritize as we do) and if you look at the specs on other laptops, you'll find things that they carry that the iBook doesn't and a few things on the iBook that they don't (which I havn't seen any yet) and blah, blah, blah. So as I look back at my original post by not agreeing with ...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Starts back-pedaling here as he likely went to the Winbook site and saw how full of crap he was. Care to elaborate?
[quote]<strong>And comments like his about the software is why I'm waiting for the next powerbook. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Explain? What can this not do that you need? What can the powerbook not do that you have to wait? i don't care if you wait, but I am seeking the logic in this.
[quote]<strong>Bottom line: If your going to tell me that Apple hardware is the most fully featured for the price, save your breath. <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> Now if you say stylish and innovative on design, I'm convinced. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Apple is the most fully featured for the price. They either wipe the floor with the competition ala the iBook, or they compare favorably and pricewise ala the Powerbook.
I would check out your school's licencing policies. CMU has it so that I can buy (and have bought) Office v.X and Office 2001 for $10 each. That's pocket change, and it's fully licenced to me while I'm a student here. Compunded with the fact that $20 for both copies of Office is peanuts, I don't even have to go look on stupid Hotline or Carracho for warez (err...not that I would have done that in the first place), nor do I have to waste CD-Rs or drive space on it.
First, Apple will likely refresh the iBooks before school starts. Apple has a thing for making the consumer models look good for the college students.
Second, If you buy while you are a student, you get a discount from Apple. This can save you $50-100.
As for the eternal Mac Vs. PC debate, I would say get the Mac. Why? They're better computers. So you can't play as many games. Face it- you are a student and you need to actually do some school work. Part of being an adult seems to consist of limiting your options during moments of lucidity so that you can't do stupid things as easily when you later want to. Do the right thing for your education.
I echo Matsu on the WAIT comment, though I don't necessarily agree about the G4.
The current entry-level iBook doesn't really cut it. 500MHz G3 on a 66 MHz bus. Enough said. Still, it runs OS X acceptably -- just not particularly well.
What I suspect Apple is likely to do, possibly in the next month, is significantly boost the processor speed, say, to 800MHz (still G3) on a 100MHz bus. At that speed, the G3-G4 question becomes much less of an issue. Even at 600 MHz/100MHz, currently available, the iBook is very good with OS X with Appleworks (although still problematic at times in MS Word, where it seems to take a few minutes to get up to speed).
Furthermore, I would expect Apple to boost the graphics chip, probably to a Radeon with 16MB VRAM, which will be enough to benefit significantly from the forthcoming graphics engine upgrades to OS X.
But also note that the OS X upgrade due at the end of the summer includes more general speed improvements (better compiler and so on) that will be of real benefit across the board, no matter the processor. And Microsoft is said to be readying a service release to Office v.X, which will hopefully address its problems.
Lastly, there is the question of the iBook package. The size is good. Having all the interfaces (Firewire, 2 USB, 10/100 Ethernet, composite audio/video support, VGA, 56K model) already there without messing with PC cards is very nice. And the Combo drive as well (or DVD if you want to save a couple hundred) -- you will not find that set of features all together in a subnotebook package on the PC side; you would have to go with a regular sized notebook, and even then probably restrict yourself to Sony at that price. And then there's the question of Apple-only products; if you're into AV, photography or music, Apple has a huge advantage.
Comments
Having a large desktop replacement with a huge 15 inch screen, "desktop class pentium 4", and whatever does not motivate me to pack up my laptop and take it with me when I'm on the go. I want something that I can just pick up when I need to leave, whip it into my bag, and not worrie about battery life, weight, etc.
I have my iBook on almost all day. All I do when I need to go to class is unhook all of my connections, close it, and stick it in my bag. The computer instantly goes asleep and the battery lasts a very long time.
One time I left for home on winter break, I live 7 hours from where I go to school, I just closed my iBook and stuck it in my backpack. Along with all of my DVDs. On the way home my friend and I watched a DVD and when we were finished we just closed the iBook back up (with about 35% of the battery left). When I got home I didn't use the iBook at all for about a week. It was still in my bag asleep the entire time. When I decided to check my e-mail I opened it up and it was only at 30%!!!
BTW- the iBook wakes from sleep instantly (in OS X).
The main thing that makes the Tibook and the iBook so appealing is the size and weight.
This winbook with the 2.2 GHz P4 is huge. The J4 or whatever. Check this out:
Size/Weight
Height: 1.64"/1.81" (41.8/46.2mm) (front/back)
Dimensions: 13.07"(332mm) x 10.8"(275mm) x 1.64/1.81"(41.8/46.2mm)
Unit Weight: 8.36 lbs (3.8kg) - w/15" SXGA+ LCD
Travel Weight: 9.46 lbs (4.3kg)
Nothing comes close to the iBooks size and price with a built in optical drive. Yes, you can get a cheaper laptop from dell or whoever but its going to be a lot bigger.
Yuck! that winbook is huge. What would want to make you pick this thing up and just stick it in your bag? I don't know about you but the reason for me getting a laptop was portablilty. If I wanted a desktop in my bag I would get a real desktop and stick it in there (its cheaper).
GIVE ME APPLE OR GIVE ME DEATH!!!!!
[ 04-18-2002: Message edited by: tacojohn ]</p>
<strong>Paul:
Heh, yeah, I don't mention some of the things like "built-in" antenna because most everyone does that. I assumed it would be obvious. So although I had misunderstood some of the facts on the iBook, they still come up short. I thought by saying the word "winbook" you might know the site to look at, I'll let you puzzle your way through that. So correction, you've said the iBook has 2 USB's (still 2 less) and combo and a modem and is keeping pace. Now where you come up w/ saying that the p4 2.2's only last 30 mins or a 400MHz bus isn't good just leaves me speechless. I'll remind my friends that there's should be going out any day now and that you would rather they trade down.</strong><hr></blockquote>
<a href="http://www.winbook.com/notebooks/n4_overview.html"; target="_blank">http://www.winbook.com/notebooks/n4_overview.html</a>;
WinBook N4
Summary
· Intel® Mobile Pentium® 4 Processor 1.6 GHz & CD-ROM
· Nvidia GeForce2Go 4X AGP graphics with 16MB DDR
· 20 GB Hard Drive
· 128 MB DDR SDRAM
· 15" SXGA+ TFT Display
· 10/100 LAN Port
· 56K Modem
· 2 USB 1.1 Ports
· Microsoft Windows XP Professional
Price $1798.
A few things to note.
No CD burner. Just CD Rom.
2 USB ports, not 4.
No wireless included, no antenna included.
And Expected Battery Life more than 2 hours, power managed.
That means like 1 hour of DVD viewing. Yeah. Comparable.
Maybe you meant the other one, the J4?
Hmmm, OK.
<a href="http://www.winbook.com/notebooks/j4_overview.html"; target="_blank">http://www.winbook.com/notebooks/j4_overview.html</a>;
Summary
· Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor 1.6 GHz & 15" SXGA+
· Impressive ATI Mobile Radeon� 7500 w/64MB DDR Graphics
· 20 GB Hard Drive
· 256 MB SDRAM
· DVD-ROM Drive
· Microsoft Windows XP Professional
· No Wireless LAN (but this one has the integrated antenna)
Subtotal:Â* $1698.00
Of note.
Expected Battery Life 3 hours, power managed. (Getting closer to the 5 hours the iBook gives.)
DVD-ROM Drive, Not Combo.
Still only 2 USB ports. Where are you finding the other 2 ports here? Show me this wonder system.
[quote]<strong>Basically, what this means is ... we could go all day on the details of these systems (i.e. battery, weight, things more important to others or us that others don't prioritize as we do) and if you look at the specs on other laptops, you'll find things that they carry that the iBook doesn't and a few things on the iBook that they don't (which I havn't seen any yet) and blah, blah, blah. So as I look back at my original post by not agreeing with ...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Starts back-pedaling here as he likely went to the Winbook site and saw how full of crap he was. Care to elaborate?
[quote]<strong>And comments like his about the software is why I'm waiting for the next powerbook. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Explain? What can this not do that you need? What can the powerbook not do that you have to wait? i don't care if you wait, but I am seeking the logic in this.
[quote]<strong>Bottom line: If your going to tell me that Apple hardware is the most fully featured for the price, save your breath. <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> Now if you say stylish and innovative on design, I'm convinced.
Apple is the most fully featured for the price. They either wipe the floor with the competition ala the iBook, or they compare favorably and pricewise ala the Powerbook.
Do you disagree with Winbooks own site?
you're on a college line now son
psst carracho.com
appleworks blows. period.
thinkFree.com
thinkFree Office provides TRUE office compatibility, and only $50. it's so cheap you might as well pay for it
[ 04-19-2002: Message edited by: janitor ]</p>
WAIT UNTIL SCHOOL STARTS!
Two reasons:
First, Apple will likely refresh the iBooks before school starts. Apple has a thing for making the consumer models look good for the college students.
Second, If you buy while you are a student, you get a discount from Apple. This can save you $50-100.
As for the eternal Mac Vs. PC debate, I would say get the Mac. Why? They're better computers. So you can't play as many games. Face it- you are a student and you need to actually do some school work. Part of being an adult seems to consist of limiting your options during moments of lucidity so that you can't do stupid things as easily when you later want to. Do the right thing for your education.
Anemic outdate G3 iBook is crying for a Quartz Extreme refresh and an iTools (photo/movie/tunes) friendly G4.
WAIT.
You don't NEED it untill school starts, WAIT!!! You'll also get a better deal once you're a university student!
The current entry-level iBook doesn't really cut it. 500MHz G3 on a 66 MHz bus. Enough said. Still, it runs OS X acceptably -- just not particularly well.
What I suspect Apple is likely to do, possibly in the next month, is significantly boost the processor speed, say, to 800MHz (still G3) on a 100MHz bus. At that speed, the G3-G4 question becomes much less of an issue. Even at 600 MHz/100MHz, currently available, the iBook is very good with OS X with Appleworks (although still problematic at times in MS Word, where it seems to take a few minutes to get up to speed).
Furthermore, I would expect Apple to boost the graphics chip, probably to a Radeon with 16MB VRAM, which will be enough to benefit significantly from the forthcoming graphics engine upgrades to OS X.
But also note that the OS X upgrade due at the end of the summer includes more general speed improvements (better compiler and so on) that will be of real benefit across the board, no matter the processor. And Microsoft is said to be readying a service release to Office v.X, which will hopefully address its problems.
Lastly, there is the question of the iBook package. The size is good. Having all the interfaces (Firewire, 2 USB, 10/100 Ethernet, composite audio/video support, VGA, 56K model) already there without messing with PC cards is very nice. And the Combo drive as well (or DVD if you want to save a couple hundred) -- you will not find that set of features all together in a subnotebook package on the PC side; you would have to go with a regular sized notebook, and even then probably restrict yourself to Sony at that price. And then there's the question of Apple-only products; if you're into AV, photography or music, Apple has a huge advantage.