(The stock price is certainly agreeing with this news too - but I'm not buying in at their P/E Ratio of 32... but it definately got me thinking about being an AAPL share holder!)
Well, this is pretty useless, neither of the XP licenses/disks I have are Service Pack 2 based. This might have helped me decide to get an Intel Mac mini sooner, so I could get rid of the aging PC I keep around for Windows stuff. I'm not going to buy another copy of Windows just to do it though.
Since this is probably true for most anyone with a system older than a couple years, this doesn't seem like that useful of an approach. Apple ought to be aiming for people with aging XP systems as a way to get them over to Mac OS. People with newer copies of XP probably aren't the ones who will go out and buy a Mac just to run XP on it.
I believe there are ways to take the SP2 download and your original XP disc and merge the two onto a new CD-R so you start with an XP/SP2 install. I believe the term you want to search on is "slipstream". That's what I've heard it called.
[edit]
Here's a step by step instruction on slipstreaming XP + SP2:
Did anyone else notice that in the installer, it doesn't erase all your data to repartition the hard drive? Perhaps this signals another new feature of Leapord!?
There was a way of non-destructively resizing HFS+ partitions but it was necessary to turn journaling off first. It seems that Apple have managed to non-destructively resize HFS+ partitions without turning journaling off which isn't such an amazing feat given Apple's resources.
Yea but I purchased a ThinkPad to run software for my TWO yachts a week prior to your purchase so they really should pre-announced it TWO weeks ago... Oh yea an my brother purchased a ThinkPad to run software for his THREE yachts with the optional helicopter landing pads just two weeks prior to my purchase... So lets see.. exactly how far back should we have Apple pre-announce things?
Truth is... no matter what you say some schmuck somewhere in the world was going to buy a ThinkPad for his or her yacht just a week prior to the announcement and/or pre-announcement.
Dave
I just wished Apple had announced BootCamp on 20-Feb. Then I would've picked up a shiny IntelliMac instead of an HP.
I agree. Boot Camp may work for some but I need virtualization app to really do what i want, ie switch between os with out re-boot.
Lets face it... There are really two (nee four) distinct "Mac Users"
1. Those who love OS X but want to play the hot new games
2. Those who love OS X but have a need to run some random app not available to OS X.
3. Those who love OS X and wouldn't dare run Windows EVAR!
4. Those who hate OS X but instead of switch choose to bitch to us instead
Group 1 = Dual boot is the ONLY way to fly (game gets the most speed)
Group 2 = Virtualization would be king since booting into Windows just to run some silly app would suck!
Group 3 = Will just wring their hands over this whole thing
Group 4 = Will find something to bitch with this too.
Now people in the Windows world... that's a different story. As of late I've noticed more and more Windows users taking the "Mac OS X" plunge (even my little cousin - a die hard windows user made the switch and is now trying to convince his father to do the same). I consider those Windows users 'totally fed up' with Windows and all the crap (virus, spyware, popups, malware, worms, etc) that goes along with it.
Another percentage of Windows users who just aren't ready to totally pull the Windows plug but are OS X curious.
Small businesses... who could perhaps be persuaded to switch if they could do it in their own time and not give up Windows cold turkey. (virtualization would be a god send for these folks)
Finally businesses and hardcore windows users who, no matter what happens will live and die Microsoft & Dell. Huge corporate IT departments HATE to change ANYTHING and to that point most have just in the last few years given up Windows NT (since MS pretty much forced their hand) and are now mostly just running Windows 2000.
All in all, Apple really has a chance at winning over some new blood with this move!
Lets face it... There are really two (nee four) distinct "Mac Users"
1. Those who love OS X but want to play the hot new games
2. Those who love OS X but have a need to run some random app not available to OS X.
3. Those who love OS X and wouldn't dare run Windows EVAR!
4. Those who hate OS X but instead of switch choose to bitch to us instead
Group 1 = Dual boot is the ONLY way to fly (game gets the most speed)
Group 2 = Virtualization would be king since booting into Windows just to run some silly app would suck!
Group 3 = Will just wring their hands over this whole thing
Group 4 = Will find something to bitch with this too.
Now people in the Windows world... that's a different story. As of late I've noticed more and more Windows users taking the "Mac OS X" plunge (even my little cousin - a die hard windows user made the switch and is now trying to convince his father to do the same). I consider those Windows users 'totally fed up' with Windows and all the crap (virus, spyware, popups, malware, worms, etc) that goes along with it.
Another percentage of Windows users who just aren't ready to totally pull the Windows plug but are OS X curious.
Small businesses... who could perhaps be persuaded to switch if they could do it in their own time and not give up Windows cold turkey. (virtualization would be a god send for these folks)
Finally businesses and hardcore windows users who, no matter what happens will live and die Microsoft & Dell. Huge corporate IT departments HATE to change ANYTHING and to that point most have just in the last few years given up Windows NT (since MS pretty much forced their had) and or now mostly just running Windows 2000.
All in all, Apple really has a chance at winning over some new blood with this move!
Dave
excellent post. i wish this was like digg so comments could be promoted. anyways, i'm a moderate group 1. i want to dual boot only for gaming, but i want to play games like roller coaster tycoon and stuff, nothing big. i know RCT is available for mac, but the pc version has tons of add-ons, etc.
First thing that will happen: Alienware will lose a large part of their portable customers.
Next thing: A moderate progress in the number of switchers.
Then: New middle to large sized apps will be Windows only. Most developers stop developing for Mac at the next large transition (be that processor or API), UNLESS Apple give them a good reason not to (much greater distance between Mac OS and WIndows).
So short term good move, long term bad move, UNLESS Apple use its comparable legacy-free situation to make advantages compared to WIndows
First thing that will happen: Alienware will lose a large part of their portable customers.
Heh... Didn't Dell just buy Alienware?
Quote:
Originally posted by Anders
Then: New middle to large sized apps will be Windows only. Most developers stop developing for Mac at the next large transition (be that processor or API), UNLESS Apple give them a good reason not to (much greater distance between Mac OS and WIndows).
Well "much greater distance" ..OR.. a bigger/growing market share. No software developer is going to abandon a growing user base that's just not smart and the stockholders of the respective companies will no doubt voice their displeasure at the move.
For a second that this was to appease pro users who can't wait for Adobe's Creative Suite 3.
Simply boot up in XP and run CS2. But then I realized they'd need to buy XP versions of CS2.
Regardless, this will be a great added feature of OSX/Leopard. I'm guessing Jobs will certainly make mention of it, but not harp on it. Why tout XP when OSX is still the better OS.
Brilliant move by Apple. I wonder how long Steve has been waiting to pull the trigger on this. To minimize the OS/2 effect he had to get Adobe and MS on board with OS X Intel promises...
1. A few people are going to put Windows on MacTels anyway.
2. PC people shopping in the Apple Stores now can be told by the sales guy that the Macs will run Windows and Mac OS.
3. Adobe and other developers won't kill the OS X versions of their apps because:
- Apple's hardware marketshare is going to take off now that there will be "future proofing" for buyers who know that IF they need to run a Windows app, they will be able to. This doesn't mean that they WILL buy Windows XP, but they WILL buy the Mac.
- If developers offer only the Windows version of their app, it requires the buyer to buy Windows XP also, killing most of their Mac market because Mac buyers won't do this.
4. Now MS could throw a monkeywrench in this by selling XP to Adobe for a dollar a copy, so that Adobe can sell the "PhotoShop for Windows with Windows included" for the Mac market, but MS have no reason to do this - they'd be happy with the retail sales of XP to the Mac market.
Next on the agenda: Cocoa for Windows, in Xcode. All developers can move to Xcode and have a single codebase for the entire market. As the Mac market share skyrockets, developers will have more and more reason to do this. Cocoa already has objects and methods to do everything you can imagine, and all Apple has to do is change the internals of the frameworks so that they call into Windows dlls instead of Mac OS X frameworks. If Mac hardware sales get to, let's say 15% of the market, then some developers will move to Xcode to take advantage of that revenue stream, and others will follow.
As far as Mac game developers, they can bite me. All their blathering over the last 20 years about the market being too small, and their insistence on porting Windows games instead of actually designing anything should come back to haunt them. If they had possessed any sense of vision, they might have seen that developing native games would have increased Mac hardware market share and in turn made their market larger.
It'll ultimately scare Microsoft because it is the start of the end for them.
Switchers now have no reason not to buy a Mac since they can run both OSs easily.
Someone needs to be devil's advocate here:
A 150% price increase is still a very good reason not to switch for most Windows users. If I was Bill Gates I'd be popping open the champaign right now, their 95% market share will get closer to 100%, with 5% having both OS's.
And how are those Apple mice going to work with Windows XP, anyway?
How is this going to make Apple just a high-end PC maker? How is this going to slow down OSX innovation?
How is this going to make XP any better as an everyday OS?
How is going to make XP andy less buggy and virus laden?
How is this going to make anyone move from OSX to XP?
What this will do is double Apple's share in two years and level a playing field that will force Apple to make OSX even better to use than XP no matter what M$ tries to do. We already have proof that a hacked MacBook Pro can run XP faster than Dell laptops. We have proof that customers would like a virus "free" alternative. We have a huge installed iPod user base. As M$ transitions to Vista and everyone is forced to upgrade to do anything with all of the bloatware, they will have finally a real choice to make!
What it won't do is get Windows-only developers to add Mac development unless Xcode (as described above) is cheap and easier and has ULTRA Universal binary capability.
It won't make switchers of ma and pa Kettle who only can afford a $400 PC with monitor since this basically makes a Mac at least twice as expensive with higher priced hardware and the Windows disc.
The big risk is the developer community in one or two years down the road. I'd like to hear from Adobe NOW about their upgrade plans and I'd love to see them on-stage at WWDC! As a matter of fact, that may need to be about 50% of the keynote is all of the big developers on stage with Steve pledging undying loyalty and describing how OSX innovation makes their apps better on a Mac.
It is a risk, but Steve had to move to closer to the middle of the market. Apple had to do this and it had a 6 month window (pun) to do it.
Comments
(The stock price is certainly agreeing with this news too - but I'm not buying in at their P/E Ratio of 32... but it definately got me thinking about being an AAPL share holder!)
Originally posted by pmjoe
Well, this is pretty useless, neither of the XP licenses/disks I have are Service Pack 2 based. This might have helped me decide to get an Intel Mac mini sooner, so I could get rid of the aging PC I keep around for Windows stuff. I'm not going to buy another copy of Windows just to do it though.
Since this is probably true for most anyone with a system older than a couple years, this doesn't seem like that useful of an approach. Apple ought to be aiming for people with aging XP systems as a way to get them over to Mac OS. People with newer copies of XP probably aren't the ones who will go out and buy a Mac just to run XP on it.
I believe there are ways to take the SP2 download and your original XP disc and merge the two onto a new CD-R so you start with an XP/SP2 install. I believe the term you want to search on is "slipstream". That's what I've heard it called.
[edit]
Here's a step by step instruction on slipstreaming XP + SP2:
http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase...slipstream.asp
Originally posted by a_greer
Well, I am glad to see that Apple is maturing the mac line like this, finally, Macs will be more than mere toys.
<ducks>
<Toying with the ban button>
Consumers now have a reason to make the switch. They can have a system that runs both OS X and Windows. My views have now been validated by Apple 8)
Originally posted by andrewcod
Did anyone else notice that in the installer, it doesn't erase all your data to repartition the hard drive? Perhaps this signals another new feature of Leapord!?
There was a way of non-destructively resizing HFS+ partitions but it was necessary to turn journaling off first. It seems that Apple have managed to non-destructively resize HFS+ partitions without turning journaling off which isn't such an amazing feat given Apple's resources.
Originally posted by DaveGee
Yea but I purchased a ThinkPad to run software for my TWO yachts a week prior to your purchase so they really should pre-announced it TWO weeks ago... Oh yea an my brother purchased a ThinkPad to run software for his THREE yachts with the optional helicopter landing pads just two weeks prior to my purchase... So lets see.. exactly how far back should we have Apple pre-announce things?
Truth is... no matter what you say some schmuck somewhere in the world was going to buy a ThinkPad for his or her yacht just a week prior to the announcement and/or pre-announcement.
Dave
I just wished Apple had announced BootCamp on 20-Feb.
Originally posted by kmhtkmhtkmht
Could XP run OS X?
Uhhhh... Come again
Originally posted by kmhtkmhtkmht
Could XP run OS X?
It's only a matter of time...and lawsuits. :-)
Originally posted by backtomac
I agree. Boot Camp may work for some but I need virtualization app to really do what i want, ie switch between os with out re-boot.
Lets face it... There are really two (nee four) distinct "Mac Users"
1. Those who love OS X but want to play the hot new games
2. Those who love OS X but have a need to run some random app not available to OS X.
3. Those who love OS X and wouldn't dare run Windows EVAR!
4. Those who hate OS X but instead of switch choose to bitch to us instead
Group 1 = Dual boot is the ONLY way to fly (game gets the most speed)
Group 2 = Virtualization would be king since booting into Windows just to run some silly app would suck!
Group 3 = Will just wring their hands over this whole thing
Group 4 = Will find something to bitch with this too.
Now people in the Windows world... that's a different story. As of late I've noticed more and more Windows users taking the "Mac OS X" plunge (even my little cousin - a die hard windows user made the switch and is now trying to convince his father to do the same). I consider those Windows users 'totally fed up' with Windows and all the crap (virus, spyware, popups, malware, worms, etc) that goes along with it.
Another percentage of Windows users who just aren't ready to totally pull the Windows plug but are OS X curious.
Small businesses... who could perhaps be persuaded to switch if they could do it in their own time and not give up Windows cold turkey. (virtualization would be a god send for these folks)
Finally businesses and hardcore windows users who, no matter what happens will live and die Microsoft & Dell. Huge corporate IT departments HATE to change ANYTHING and to that point most have just in the last few years given up Windows NT (since MS pretty much forced their hand) and are now mostly just running Windows 2000.
All in all, Apple really has a chance at winning over some new blood with this move!
Dave
Originally posted by DaveGee
Lets face it... There are really two (nee four) distinct "Mac Users"
1. Those who love OS X but want to play the hot new games
2. Those who love OS X but have a need to run some random app not available to OS X.
3. Those who love OS X and wouldn't dare run Windows EVAR!
4. Those who hate OS X but instead of switch choose to bitch to us instead
Group 1 = Dual boot is the ONLY way to fly (game gets the most speed)
Group 2 = Virtualization would be king since booting into Windows just to run some silly app would suck!
Group 3 = Will just wring their hands over this whole thing
Group 4 = Will find something to bitch with this too.
Now people in the Windows world... that's a different story. As of late I've noticed more and more Windows users taking the "Mac OS X" plunge (even my little cousin - a die hard windows user made the switch and is now trying to convince his father to do the same). I consider those Windows users 'totally fed up' with Windows and all the crap (virus, spyware, popups, malware, worms, etc) that goes along with it.
Another percentage of Windows users who just aren't ready to totally pull the Windows plug but are OS X curious.
Small businesses... who could perhaps be persuaded to switch if they could do it in their own time and not give up Windows cold turkey. (virtualization would be a god send for these folks)
Finally businesses and hardcore windows users who, no matter what happens will live and die Microsoft & Dell. Huge corporate IT departments HATE to change ANYTHING and to that point most have just in the last few years given up Windows NT (since MS pretty much forced their had) and or now mostly just running Windows 2000.
All in all, Apple really has a chance at winning over some new blood with this move!
Dave
excellent post. i wish this was like digg so comments could be promoted. anyways, i'm a moderate group 1. i want to dual boot only for gaming, but i want to play games like roller coaster tycoon and stuff, nothing big. i know RCT is available for mac, but the pc version has tons of add-ons, etc.
Originally posted by kmhtkmhtkmht
Could XP run OS X?
never gonna happen legally
First thing that will happen: Alienware will lose a large part of their portable customers.
Next thing: A moderate progress in the number of switchers.
Then: New middle to large sized apps will be Windows only. Most developers stop developing for Mac at the next large transition (be that processor or API), UNLESS Apple give them a good reason not to (much greater distance between Mac OS and WIndows).
So short term good move, long term bad move, UNLESS Apple use its comparable legacy-free situation to make advantages compared to WIndows
Originally posted by Anders
First thing that will happen: Alienware will lose a large part of their portable customers.
Heh... Didn't Dell just buy Alienware?
Originally posted by Anders
Then: New middle to large sized apps will be Windows only. Most developers stop developing for Mac at the next large transition (be that processor or API), UNLESS Apple give them a good reason not to (much greater distance between Mac OS and WIndows).
Well "much greater distance" ..OR.. a bigger/growing market share. No software developer is going to abandon a growing user base that's just not smart and the stockholders of the respective companies will no doubt voice their displeasure at the move.
Dave
Simply boot up in XP and run CS2. But then I realized they'd need to buy XP versions of CS2.
Regardless, this will be a great added feature of OSX/Leopard. I'm guessing Jobs will certainly make mention of it, but not harp on it. Why tout XP when OSX is still the better OS.
1. A few people are going to put Windows on MacTels anyway.
2. PC people shopping in the Apple Stores now can be told by the sales guy that the Macs will run Windows and Mac OS.
3. Adobe and other developers won't kill the OS X versions of their apps because:
- Apple's hardware marketshare is going to take off now that there will be "future proofing" for buyers who know that IF they need to run a Windows app, they will be able to. This doesn't mean that they WILL buy Windows XP, but they WILL buy the Mac.
- If developers offer only the Windows version of their app, it requires the buyer to buy Windows XP also, killing most of their Mac market because Mac buyers won't do this.
4. Now MS could throw a monkeywrench in this by selling XP to Adobe for a dollar a copy, so that Adobe can sell the "PhotoShop for Windows with Windows included" for the Mac market, but MS have no reason to do this - they'd be happy with the retail sales of XP to the Mac market.
Next on the agenda: Cocoa for Windows, in Xcode. All developers can move to Xcode and have a single codebase for the entire market. As the Mac market share skyrockets, developers will have more and more reason to do this. Cocoa already has objects and methods to do everything you can imagine, and all Apple has to do is change the internals of the frameworks so that they call into Windows dlls instead of Mac OS X frameworks. If Mac hardware sales get to, let's say 15% of the market, then some developers will move to Xcode to take advantage of that revenue stream, and others will follow.
As far as Mac game developers, they can bite me. All their blathering over the last 20 years about the market being too small, and their insistence on porting Windows games instead of actually designing anything should come back to haunt them. If they had possessed any sense of vision, they might have seen that developing native games would have increased Mac hardware market share and in turn made their market larger.
Originally posted by aegisdesign
It'll ultimately scare Microsoft because it is the start of the end for them.
Switchers now have no reason not to buy a Mac since they can run both OSs easily.
Someone needs to be devil's advocate here:
A 150% price increase is still a very good reason not to switch for most Windows users. If I was Bill Gates I'd be popping open the champaign right now, their 95% market share will get closer to 100%, with 5% having both OS's.
And how are those Apple mice going to work with Windows XP, anyway?
Originally posted by hmurchison
Virtualization and dual booting are two distinct duties
Virtualization would be great. Dual booting is of limited use.
However - being able to "fast switch" from Mac to Windows would be very useful (even if it only runs one OS at a time).
To the doomsayers I would add:
How is this going to make Apple just a high-end PC maker? How is this going to slow down OSX innovation?
How is this going to make XP any better as an everyday OS?
How is going to make XP andy less buggy and virus laden?
How is this going to make anyone move from OSX to XP?
What this will do is double Apple's share in two years and level a playing field that will force Apple to make OSX even better to use than XP no matter what M$ tries to do. We already have proof that a hacked MacBook Pro can run XP faster than Dell laptops. We have proof that customers would like a virus "free" alternative. We have a huge installed iPod user base. As M$ transitions to Vista and everyone is forced to upgrade to do anything with all of the bloatware, they will have finally a real choice to make!
What it won't do is get Windows-only developers to add Mac development unless Xcode (as described above) is cheap and easier and has ULTRA Universal binary capability.
It won't make switchers of ma and pa Kettle who only can afford a $400 PC with monitor since this basically makes a Mac at least twice as expensive with higher priced hardware and the Windows disc.
The big risk is the developer community in one or two years down the road. I'd like to hear from Adobe NOW about their upgrade plans and I'd love to see them on-stage at WWDC! As a matter of fact, that may need to be about 50% of the keynote is all of the big developers on stage with Steve pledging undying loyalty and describing how OSX innovation makes their apps better on a Mac.
It is a risk, but Steve had to move to closer to the middle of the market. Apple had to do this and it had a 6 month window (pun) to do it.