I'm thinking of the empty socket situation as a packaging issue. As much control and micromanagement as Apple likes to exert over their hardware designs, I would be extremely surprised to see if, for instance, they packaged a machine with not only an empty socket but also one of their "custom monogramed" heatsinks. If you recall the single CPU G5 machines had a similar sized heatsink, at least cosmetically, as the dual machines did, and I've not taken one apart but I suspect it had no pickup for the second CPU that wasn't there.
While functionally this is trivial to overcome?just add your own after-market heatsink?I would be surprised if Steve let their customers dirty up the interiors with such a solution easily, and worst case they could pull one of their proprietary wind channel designs that makes such a move impractical.
Also, what's to stop Apple from using similarly clocked Conroe CPUs in the single CPU designs to save cost, considering how much cheaper the Conroes are likely to be? On an upside, I could certainly see Apple releasing a mini-tower configuration with a single Conroe CPU, and relegating the dual Woodcrest designs to full towers.
There was one heatsink but the cover took up the space for two.
Yeah, but dual-core is already totally mainstream. How long until gaming is optimized for four cores? I'd be suprised if the scalablity makes these expensive 4x4 systems anywhere worthwhile for the gamer.
Also, let's not stereotype all PC gamers as people who buy ridiculously expensive and over-speced systems -- on the other end of the spectrum a lot of people are overclocking a $100 Pentium-D chip.
You're right. But when people are refered to as "gamers" it usually means that these are the dedicated ones. The ones that do spend the money.
Thanks to Ryan Gordon, this engine should make it to Mac and thanks to the awesomeness of UE3, lots of games will use the engine which means porting these games to Mac should be fairly easy once Ryan Gordon releases the Linux and Mac OS X version of Unreal 2k7.
And if it doesn't, I'll just start UT2k7 up in Boot Camp instead.
And if it doesn't, I'll just start UT2k7 up in Boot Camp instead.
No doubt. Even boot camp has it's place for me. I'd like to see the Leopard demo running boot camp under fast user switching, just a flip of the screen, and your in the game.
I have a short list of games I'd like to play, and that's about all windows is good for IMO.
Depending on Autodesks stance on Mac development with Maya I may find myself using XSI under boot camp as well.
The low end Mac Pro will not come with an empty socket. Which Woodcrest would you put in the full socket? The only way it wouldn't be a joke is with the 2.67 GHz one. Which costs $40 more than having dual 2.0 GHz chips ($700 vs. $660). I mean, unless you honestly think Apple is gonna ship a single-2.33 Mac Pro...which would be utterly crushed by the fact that the MBP will be running at that speed, and the fact that Dell will sell 2.33 GHz Conroes for $1000.
...and the fact that Dell will sell 2.33 GHz Conroes for $1000.
That's a good point--I had forgotten that there won't really be any "premium" in the processor Apple chooses. Not that it won't cost a lot (it will, I'm sure), but there's definitely going to be intense competition coming from the likes of Dell, on both the consumer and professional side, so it wouldn't surprise me to see a Woodcrest Mac Pro and a Conroe iMac...
This may be the wrong thread for this, but I'll speculate here anyway: if Apple did decide to use Conroe exclusively in the Mac Pro, and keep the iMac Merom, wouldn't that mean Apple would need to put out some lower priced desktops? A great deal of people aren't going to want a desktop computer with only laptop power, so I wonder if a Merom iMac would herald the coming of a "headless" Conroe option positioned around the pricing of the iMac...
Edit: Maybe the smaller motherboards coming out (followed by larger ones) from Intel's labs for Apple's computer also indicate the introduction of a smaller form factor alongside the true G5-sized Mac Pro?
We're either going to see lower cost Mac Pros (with Conroes) or a quad lineup (Woodcrests)...mix and matching them just wouldn't work...and selling Mac Pros with Conroes at the prices they're selling the G5s currently would be stupid...I'd get myself an iMac if that happened...but maybe that's what Apple wants.
...seems like Apple has to come out with a top of the line greater than the 2.5GHz Quad PPC...
Yeah. They have to better that. All of the other systems have done so.
But it will be harder this time. None of the others had two cpu's, so one dual core was all Apple needed to upstage them. With the PM's having at least one dual core chip, and the top model having two of them, Apple will have to do some scrambling to be able to say that the new model is two times faster than the old one.
You know what'd be great? All 4 HDs plus the optical on the front, hot swap SATA on trays. Tangental, I know, but...
Also, I don't think the Woodcrest chips would pose a problem to Apple in building a system faster than the Quad G5. Which poses a question in my mind, is Intel still differentiating their Xeon lines by prohibiting the Conroe from use in dual CPU configs? Shame on them if so.
But back to the Woodcrest, it'll be considerably faster per clock on a considerably faster clock than the "yonah" Core implementation, which core per core does well in most things against the G5, if memory serves.
Believe it or not, the G5 IS a mid tower. The full towers are even taller.
I'm pretty sure the G5 is an EATX (Extended ATX) which is considered the full sized tower which holds the largest of the server motherboards. There are bigger and taller ones, but there will always be.
I bet either a 2.66 Quad or a 3.0 Quad will beat a Quad G5. That said, I think 3.0 is more likely to prove more of a difference between the King and the 2.0/2.33 models.
I think that was just ChevalierMalFet's wishing. Hot-swappable would only be really useful on a server setup, of course.
Most people are clamouring for easy access to replace the internal SATA hard disks. By opening up the case and easily accessing optical/ hard disk drive bays. And having decent and accessible PCIex, PCI, memory slots.
And SLI Quadros/ nVidia high-end 7series as options for the 3D peoples.
Apple has the potential to really put out a decent Midi-Tower that fits a lot of what we're clamouring for. Ives' work on the outside, true and brilliant Apple engineering on the inside for flexibility and expandability, that's the potential of the MacPro.
But whatever comes out, not everyone will be happy. Some will be, some won't. Always the case, I guess. Heh... case... pun unintended.
I think that was just ChevalierMalFet's wishing. Hot-swappable would only be really useful on a server setup, of course.
Most people are clamouring for easy access to replace the internal SATA hard disks. By opening up the case and easily accessing optical/ hard disk drive bays. And having decent and accessible PCIex, PCI, memory slots.
And SLI Quadros/ nVidia high-end 7series as options for the 3D peoples.
No offense, but how much easier can it get to switch harddrives in a g5??? It's the easiest thing i've ever seen and i've built many pc's in my day.
Comments
Originally posted by ChevalierMalFet
I'm thinking of the empty socket situation as a packaging issue. As much control and micromanagement as Apple likes to exert over their hardware designs, I would be extremely surprised to see if, for instance, they packaged a machine with not only an empty socket but also one of their "custom monogramed" heatsinks. If you recall the single CPU G5 machines had a similar sized heatsink, at least cosmetically, as the dual machines did, and I've not taken one apart but I suspect it had no pickup for the second CPU that wasn't there.
While functionally this is trivial to overcome?just add your own after-market heatsink?I would be surprised if Steve let their customers dirty up the interiors with such a solution easily, and worst case they could pull one of their proprietary wind channel designs that makes such a move impractical.
Also, what's to stop Apple from using similarly clocked Conroe CPUs in the single CPU designs to save cost, considering how much cheaper the Conroes are likely to be? On an upside, I could certainly see Apple releasing a mini-tower configuration with a single Conroe CPU, and relegating the dual Woodcrest designs to full towers.
There was one heatsink but the cover took up the space for two.
Originally posted by IntlHarvester
Yeah, but dual-core is already totally mainstream. How long until gaming is optimized for four cores? I'd be suprised if the scalablity makes these expensive 4x4 systems anywhere worthwhile for the gamer.
Also, let's not stereotype all PC gamers as people who buy ridiculously expensive and over-speced systems -- on the other end of the spectrum a lot of people are overclocking a $100 Pentium-D chip.
You're right. But when people are refered to as "gamers" it usually means that these are the dedicated ones. The ones that do spend the money.
Originally posted by kim kap sol
Thanks to Ryan Gordon, this engine should make it to Mac and thanks to the awesomeness of UE3, lots of games will use the engine which means porting these games to Mac should be fairly easy once Ryan Gordon releases the Linux and Mac OS X version of Unreal 2k7.
And if it doesn't, I'll just start UT2k7 up in Boot Camp instead.
Originally posted by Placebo
And if it doesn't, I'll just start UT2k7 up in Boot Camp instead.
Hehe...good point.
Originally posted by Placebo
And if it doesn't, I'll just start UT2k7 up in Boot Camp instead.
No doubt. Even boot camp has it's place for me. I'd like to see the Leopard demo running boot camp under fast user switching, just a flip of the screen, and your in the game.
I have a short list of games I'd like to play, and that's about all windows is good for IMO.
Depending on Autodesks stance on Mac development with Maya I may find myself using XSI under boot camp as well.
Originally posted by ZachPruckowski
...and the fact that Dell will sell 2.33 GHz Conroes for $1000.
That's a good point--I had forgotten that there won't really be any "premium" in the processor Apple chooses. Not that it won't cost a lot (it will, I'm sure), but there's definitely going to be intense competition coming from the likes of Dell, on both the consumer and professional side, so it wouldn't surprise me to see a Woodcrest Mac Pro and a Conroe iMac...
This may be the wrong thread for this, but I'll speculate here anyway: if Apple did decide to use Conroe exclusively in the Mac Pro, and keep the iMac Merom, wouldn't that mean Apple would need to put out some lower priced desktops? A great deal of people aren't going to want a desktop computer with only laptop power, so I wonder if a Merom iMac would herald the coming of a "headless" Conroe option positioned around the pricing of the iMac...
Edit: Maybe the smaller motherboards coming out (followed by larger ones) from Intel's labs for Apple's computer also indicate the introduction of a smaller form factor alongside the true G5-sized Mac Pro?
Originally posted by Bigc
...seems like Apple has to come out with a top of the line greater than the 2.5GHz Quad PPC...
Yeah. They have to better that. All of the other systems have done so.
But it will be harder this time. None of the others had two cpu's, so one dual core was all Apple needed to upstage them. With the PM's having at least one dual core chip, and the top model having two of them, Apple will have to do some scrambling to be able to say that the new model is two times faster than the old one.
Dark Aluminium Midi-Tower* config with 24" Cinema Display (iSight, frontRow)
Just something to chew on. Note it's a Midi-Tower* not the massive G5 beast.
Same form factor for
Conroe MacPro DualPro,
Woodcrest MacPro QuadExtreme and QuadPro.
Note extra drive bay (can accomodate optical drive or hard drive with internal physical adaptor) and front ports (3 USB, 1 FW400, 1 FW800)
*By Midi-Tower I mean something more like reasonably sized PC towers not the G5-like beastly towers.
Originally posted by sunilraman
Usual blatant cross-posting (image below)
Dark Aluminium Midi-Tower* config with 24" Cinema Display (iSight, frontRow)
Just something to chew on. Note it's a Midi-Tower* not the massive G5 beast.
Same form factor for
Conroe MacPro DualPro,
Woodcrest MacPro QuadExtreme and QuadPro.
Note extra drive bay (can accomodate optical drive or hard drive with internal physical adaptor) and front ports (3 USB, 1 FW400, 1 FW800)
*By Midi-Tower I mean something more like reasonably sized PC towers not the G5-like beastly towers.
Believe it or not, the G5 IS a mid tower. The full towers are even taller.
Also, I don't think the Woodcrest chips would pose a problem to Apple in building a system faster than the Quad G5. Which poses a question in my mind, is Intel still differentiating their Xeon lines by prohibiting the Conroe from use in dual CPU configs? Shame on them if so.
But back to the Woodcrest, it'll be considerably faster per clock on a considerably faster clock than the "yonah" Core implementation, which core per core does well in most things against the G5, if memory serves.
Originally posted by melgross
Believe it or not, the G5 IS a mid tower. The full towers are even taller.
I'm pretty sure the G5 is an EATX (Extended ATX) which is considered the full sized tower which holds the largest of the server motherboards. There are bigger and taller ones, but there will always be.
Most people are clamouring for easy access to replace the internal SATA hard disks. By opening up the case and easily accessing optical/ hard disk drive bays. And having decent and accessible PCIex, PCI, memory slots.
And SLI Quadros/ nVidia high-end 7series as options for the 3D peoples.
But whatever comes out, not everyone will be happy. Some will be, some won't. Always the case, I guess. Heh... case... pun unintended.
Originally posted by sunilraman
I think that was just ChevalierMalFet's wishing. Hot-swappable would only be really useful on a server setup, of course.
Most people are clamouring for easy access to replace the internal SATA hard disks. By opening up the case and easily accessing optical/ hard disk drive bays. And having decent and accessible PCIex, PCI, memory slots.
And SLI Quadros/ nVidia high-end 7series as options for the 3D peoples.
No offense, but how much easier can it get to switch harddrives in a g5??? It's the easiest thing i've ever seen and i've built many pc's in my day.