The old models are selling better than the new because they are priced to move. My father ALMOST bought a demo dual 1-ghz for $1999 from the Apple store in Tampa, but wanted a non-demo and didn't want to pay $2199 for it. I thought he was dumb. We almost convinced him to buy the new version, but the difference in the specs between the two didn't make up for the difference in price (3 ATA chains & 2 opticals & 167 bus v. 2-MB L3 cache & cheaper ram & mostly the same overall performance) for $300. He currently is using a SuperMac S900 w/ G3/400 and is itching to upgrade.
they have given me was to basically stay away from this system for at least til the next revision. [/QB]<hr></blockquote>
This is just a typical trick of these people who wants to clear up their inventory of the old PowerMacs. Trust me, go to there a few weeks later, they will tell you the totally different thing about the new PowerMac.Totally different! <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
Just a little insight: these machines aren't called New Quicksilvers, the internal Apple name was "Dual Mirror," after the chrome finish and the dual bays. Just thought I'd share. (They SHOULD have smacked whomever came up with that code-name with an old-styled iBook, imho. I mean, seriously! Who follows up a cool name like QuickSilver with something so lame? Man. I guess this is just another Apple misstep. They'll be out of business in six months.)
Well I hear a lot of whining about these machines being slow, but my first impressions of my new 2 x 1 GHz DDR (w/ ATI 8500) are "wow", "Wow", and "WOW!"
Sure my previous Mac is 7 years old (but heavily upgraded), but I use a 1.5 GHz DDR Athlon w/ Win2K all day long at work... and this thing running Jaguar is awesome. I can't wait to do some serious tasks on this thing... it might not benchmark all that well but if feels faster than anything I've used before. Quartz Extreme was definitely a well chosen name...
I find the machine very attractive in person, and it is much quieter than my old Mac and the PC I have here at home.
Great news on your new machine, Programmer. Considering that your credibility is higher than just about anyone on this forum, your enthusiasm means a lot.
I hope my new dual DDR machine arrives soon. I stayed with the new ATI 9000 in mine, and I'd be curious to know why you opted for the 8500. (I know the 8500 is a great card, and its price has been reduced recently). Give us your read and reasoning.
I wasn't kidding about the internal code name of the new machines (Dual Mirror), but I WAS kidding about Apple going out of business because of it. However, I've seen and played with these new machines, too, and they DO look great in person. (Pictures hardly do any Apple product justice.) And they ARE fast. And they DO come with Jaguar which is freakin' awesome in its own right, never mind that it comes with a freakin' fast machine. (And unfortuantely for me, the machines at the Apple Store show off Remote Desktop 1.1, which I really really want! Man! This waiting stuff is for the birds! ) All in all I say it's a great machine to buy and don't let people fool you: it's really fast, especially so given how threaded Jag is; that OS really takes advantage of both processors.
<strong>I hope my new dual DDR machine arrives soon. I stayed with the new ATI 9000 in mine, and I'd be curious to know why you opted for the 8500. (I know the 8500 is a great card, and its price has been reduced recently). Give us your read and reasoning.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Despite its higher numbering scheme, the 9000 is not a better card in all ways that the 8500. In particular the 8500 is a better 3D card and has a couple of capabilities missing from the 9000, and probably has better fill rate too. The 9000 is the low-end card of the 9xxx series, whereas the 8500 is the high-end card of the 8xxxx series (it also happens to be the only card!). The 9000 does have better video handling capabilities, but to me 3D is more important.
I think that alot of the points above are valid except everyone seems to be missing one thing.
That dew to the popularality of the the 'Old Power Macs' and the then the new Quicksilver ones, its always going to be hard to better what everyone classes as pretty much the best deal. Or classic.
And all this name crap?? Does it matter? Does the shape matter that much as long as it looks ok and it actually does the jobs you ask it to then I don't really care.
If you worried about what it looks like then your in the wrong business....
While I agree is he is definitely a reputable fellow, Programmer's comments about his new machine (and the state of his old one) pretty much bear out what I was saying earlier. The people who are buying these dual mirror Macs are those who have been waiting a *long* time for an upgrade.
That is totally understandable IMO; I would do the same if my machine was just a year older than it is. But I believe we will see in the end analysis that very few people who had AGP, DA, or QuickSilver G4's found a reason to upgrade to DualMirror. You don't have to be a "market analyst" to figure out they won't sell very well. And frankly most of the real "market analysts" out there are being exposed for what they are - useless.
It's not always a "you have to buy them sometime" issue, in corporate/education environments Macs can be wiped off the slate in a blink because of performance and update sluggishness.
Kind of hard for an unbiased (guy who doesn't care about Windows v. MacOS arguments) to go with a platform that is always improving their performance and one that only improves once or twice a year, and only then marginally.
I'm with you to. I've waited a long time to update my tower. I welcome my new dual 1gig with open arms. Not as fast as I would like it but i don't think anything will ever be.
Next cycle it will be 32/0.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Whereas anybody who goes to UC Berkeley can tell you the opposite. Macs have more penetration than ever. Power Macs with 17 inch ASDs galore at every one of the W&MF computer labs. Maybe not 50/50 but 30/70 is pretty good and better than what it was when I came to Berkeley. As for labs I was involved in myself, the Open Computing Facility had no Macs in 1999 when I joined it. It now has 1 (an increase of infinity percent,) and I was not even involved in the decision to purchase it. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
But perhaps where Apple has the most influence of all is in Soda hall where I saw more and more people carrying iBooks and PowerBooks...which is actually quite surprising because grad students and other students with major projects are supplied with brand new courtesy IBM ThinkPads from the department to own. Of course Apple doesn't have the ability to donate on the level of Dell though, which gets its logo put all over the inside of the buildings.
Despite its higher numbering scheme, the 9000 is not a better card in all ways that the 8500. In particular the 8500 is a better 3D card and has a couple of capabilities missing from the 9000, and probably has better fill rate too. The 9000 is the low-end card of the 9xxx series, whereas the 8500 is the high-end card of the 8xxxx series (it also happens to be the only card!). The 9000 does have better video handling capabilities, but to me 3D is more important.
I'll get a 9700 when they're available.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Can you tell me how and where you can find an ATI 8500 for AGP bus ???
They don't have it on ATI web site (only PCI). Apple have it, but it's only BTO for the xServe.
So tell us have you got an AGP version or PCI version ? The later is pretty bad I think for Quartz Xtreme.
If I had my way the Mac # would be climbing as well but the powers that be find what Apple offers to be very uncompelling, especially when you take into account that Dell showers love all over the University of Texas in Austin and Apple has started to become a pain in the ass (orders mysteriously disappearing and such). It pisses me off because I dig having brand new very expensive PowerMacs to play with.
Comments
they have given me was to basically stay away from this system for at least til the next revision. [/QB]<hr></blockquote>
This is just a typical trick of these people who wants to clear up their inventory of the old PowerMacs. Trust me, go to there a few weeks later, they will tell you the totally different thing about the new PowerMac.Totally different! <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
[ 08-20-2002: Message edited by: Gambit ]</p>
Jet
because it doesn't.... no sale.
Sure my previous Mac is 7 years old (but heavily upgraded), but I use a 1.5 GHz DDR Athlon w/ Win2K all day long at work... and this thing running Jaguar is awesome. I can't wait to do some serious tasks on this thing... it might not benchmark all that well but if feels faster than anything I've used before. Quartz Extreme was definitely a well chosen name...
I find the machine very attractive in person, and it is much quieter than my old Mac and the PC I have here at home.
<strong>If the dual 867 had a superdrive and the new bus I would buy it.
because it doesn't.... no sale.</strong><hr></blockquote>
<strong>If the dual 867 had a superdrive and the new bus I would buy it.
because it doesn't.... no sale.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Applenut, you can always BTO from Apple...
I hope my new dual DDR machine arrives soon. I stayed with the new ATI 9000 in mine, and I'd be curious to know why you opted for the 8500. (I know the 8500 is a great card, and its price has been reduced recently). Give us your read and reasoning.
--------------------------------------
Waiting in Nashville
[edited for clarrification]
[ 08-21-2002: Message edited by: Gambit ]</p>
<strong>I hope my new dual DDR machine arrives soon. I stayed with the new ATI 9000 in mine, and I'd be curious to know why you opted for the 8500. (I know the 8500 is a great card, and its price has been reduced recently). Give us your read and reasoning.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Despite its higher numbering scheme, the 9000 is not a better card in all ways that the 8500. In particular the 8500 is a better 3D card and has a couple of capabilities missing from the 9000, and probably has better fill rate too. The 9000 is the low-end card of the 9xxx series, whereas the 8500 is the high-end card of the 8xxxx series (it also happens to be the only card!). The 9000 does have better video handling capabilities, but to me 3D is more important.
I'll get a 9700 when they're available.
That dew to the popularality of the the 'Old Power Macs' and the then the new Quicksilver ones, its always going to be hard to better what everyone classes as pretty much the best deal. Or classic.
And all this name crap?? Does it matter? Does the shape matter that much as long as it looks ok and it actually does the jobs you ask it to then I don't really care.
If you worried about what it looks like then your in the wrong business....
go be a model for a magazine.
That is totally understandable IMO; I would do the same if my machine was just a year older than it is. But I believe we will see in the end analysis that very few people who had AGP, DA, or QuickSilver G4's found a reason to upgrade to DualMirror. You don't have to be a "market analyst" to figure out they won't sell very well. And frankly most of the real "market analysts" out there are being exposed for what they are - useless.
Kind of hard for an unbiased (guy who doesn't care about Windows v. MacOS arguments) to go with a platform that is always improving their performance and one that only improves once or twice a year, and only then marginally.
32 computers in my lab.
In 1998 it was 16/16 for PC/Mac.
Now it's 24/8.
Next cycle it will be 32/0.
------------------------------------
Still Waiting in Tennessee
..i waited for 4 years for my last upgrade.
840av - 94-98.
Dual 1Ghz For Me w/ Gef4 Ti & 17"- NICE!
<strong>
32 computers in my lab.
In 1998 it was 16/16 for PC/Mac.
Now it's 24/8.
Next cycle it will be 32/0.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Whereas anybody who goes to UC Berkeley can tell you the opposite. Macs have more penetration than ever. Power Macs with 17 inch ASDs galore at every one of the W&MF computer labs. Maybe not 50/50 but 30/70 is pretty good and better than what it was when I came to Berkeley. As for labs I was involved in myself, the Open Computing Facility had no Macs in 1999 when I joined it. It now has 1 (an increase of infinity percent,) and I was not even involved in the decision to purchase it. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
But perhaps where Apple has the most influence of all is in Soda hall where I saw more and more people carrying iBooks and PowerBooks...which is actually quite surprising because grad students and other students with major projects are supplied with brand new courtesy IBM ThinkPads from the department to own. Of course Apple doesn't have the ability to donate on the level of Dell though, which gets its logo put all over the inside of the buildings.
<strong>
Despite its higher numbering scheme, the 9000 is not a better card in all ways that the 8500. In particular the 8500 is a better 3D card and has a couple of capabilities missing from the 9000, and probably has better fill rate too. The 9000 is the low-end card of the 9xxx series, whereas the 8500 is the high-end card of the 8xxxx series (it also happens to be the only card!). The 9000 does have better video handling capabilities, but to me 3D is more important.
I'll get a 9700 when they're available.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Can you tell me how and where you can find an ATI 8500 for AGP bus ???
They don't have it on ATI web site (only PCI). Apple have it, but it's only BTO for the xServe.
So tell us have you got an AGP version or PCI version ? The later is pretty bad I think for Quartz Xtreme.
If I had my way the Mac # would be climbing as well but the powers that be find what Apple offers to be very uncompelling, especially when you take into account that Dell showers love all over the University of Texas in Austin and Apple has started to become a pain in the ass (orders mysteriously disappearing and such). It pisses me off because I dig having brand new very expensive PowerMacs to play with.