Of course ATI just had more price cuts.. it seems like it can be had for $325-$350. And you have to wait a month. You wonder why Apple is delaying shipments.
A fully tricked out Mac Pro from the Apple Store worked out to . . .
Wait for it . . .
$17,981.81 with tax of course.
Yeah man. Apple sells an $18k computer.
In the stupefied words of Keanu Reeves:
Woah.
What you have in the Mac pro is far from a desktop computer; it is a server dressed up like a tower (hence the name "workstation") tower servers or workstations are not cheap, you do not find them at BestBuy, this aint competeing with the e-macheins POS Of The Week...
It is competeing with people like Boxx who as of this moment use slower RAM, and Windows XP Pro...IIRC XP cant handle more than 4 GB ram, so having 8GB Mobo capacity is a moot point.
Apple offers something that Boxx Aleinware Dell and Falcon can not: OSX; opening the door to the one app out there that is acctually starting to compete with Avid on a real level: FCS...FCS isnt quite up to where Avid is as far as motion graphics and effects, but with the demo of Core Animation we saw yesterday...it is only a matter of time.
To be honest, a really good Mac workstation can be put togehter using the Mac Pro for about $5000, and a fantastic dream of a station could be built for $10,000 and if things are as I remember them, $10,000 will get a few chuckles from Avid but not much else...
Unfortunately that sums up our quagmire, in a nutshell. The mantra of the Mac experience seems to be..."make do with what Apple offers". In my case, that leaves me paying far more for a machine that really doesn't meet my needs simply to acquire a decent non-integrated system. I had originally expected to spend somewhere between $1,800 - $2,000 for Apple's PowerMac successor. Today I am now in the hole for more than $2,600. Thanks Apple!
Yeah but you are ponying up the cash. so Apple wins, you lose.
Looks like Apple is not really interested in growing marketshare but competing more in a vertical market of high end workstations and boutique laptopbased all in one systems for the art crowd.
Looks like Apple is not really interested in growing marketshare but competing more in a vertical market of high end workstations and boutique laptopbased all in one systems for the art crowd.
Bull shit.
Utter shit of bull.
Apple has aggressivly pursued consumer computer markets as well as professional markets. With Apple's pro macs, the computers speak for themselves in both value, features, and strength. With consumer macs, Apple has agressivly built a brand and a set of computers that cater to the wants of the average home computer user. Apple has a very diversified target audience:
- Students/Teachers/Education (Functionality + Fun + Beautiful UI + iLife)
- Old People (Simplicity + Easy of Use + Beautiful UI + Sucurity + Easy Communication/iChat/Mail)
- Young People (Functionality + Fun + Youthfullness + Beautiful UI + iLife)
Is Apple aggressively pursuing business environments that want to deploy machines with compact case design, moderate internal expandability, and separate monitor?
Is Apple aggressively pursuing business environments that want to deploy machines with compact case design, moderate internal expandability, and separate monitor?
Mac mini. Anything more expensive and the company goes for the Dell.
But business won't go for it, because their IT guys want Windows so they can continue to spend hours removing spyware, and thus keep their jobs.
What "moderate internal expandability" would a secretary or administrative assistant need?
Mac mini. Anything more expensive and the company goes for the Dell.
But business won't go for it, because their IT guys want Windows so they can continue to spend hours removing spyware, and thus keep their jobs.
What "moderate internal expandability" would a secretary or administrative assistant need?
maybe more ram or a bigger hard disk. There are some business environments that may need better video then gma 950. Apple can make a mac mini with a i-mac video aka mac mini + or head less imac.
Is Apple aggressively pursuing business environments that want to deploy machines with compact case design, moderate internal expandability, and separate monitor?
How compact? Mini-tower? Shuttle-like? Cube? or a slightly larger mini?
I do think that Apple has an oversimplified model line. Not having many models was good for their lean times but really, the consumer product boils down to three models total, which strikes me as a one-size-fits-all attitude. I can understand their reasoning for how they do things, but that doesn't mean I agree with it, mainly because I think they go overboard with the idea to the point of it being an unquestioned ideology and anything that deviates from that extreme is shunned.
I think it's likely too early to expect anything that a computer gamer would want though. The platform is practically anti-gaming such that there's not much market for it (though it's a vicious self-reinforcing cycle, IMO) and such a system would imply that one is running Windows anyway. I'd be pleased with it though there's another reason I don't think it would happen is that most of the complainers tend to be people that slap together their own computers out of a few parts, they practically don't want anyone to take that away from them and I don't expect Apple to oblige to that demand to the slightest degree.
Who knows, maybe they'll surprise me, they've done that on occasion. I wasn't surprised by the Mac Pro being all dual Woodcrest (though I was fearing it would be all-conroe, then Kentsfield early next year), but I was surprised by how cheaply they'd offer such systems, and I was surprised they'd bothered offering more drive slots. I was really surprised by the dual optical drives. Dual optical used to be a complaint of mine but lately I rarely use one, only a single optical is something I can understand.
maybe more ram or a bigger hard disk. There are some business environments that may need better video then gma 950. Apple can make a mac mini with a i-mac video aka mac mini + or head less imac.
I think that's stretching the argument. There aren't any business needs that I can think of that require dedicated graphics and that a workstation would be out of the question for the task.
I was just talking about the computer and monitors. Avid is not just a computer. There is a lot of extra hardware that goes with it. We have three of them where I work. And 5 FCP HD all with Xserve Raids. And a Discreet Inferno. And a Quantel Henry.
What I want to see is a mega Mac Pro with FCP HD and Shake. That will be interesting. And it will cost a lot less than an Avid.
Not really. It depends on Avid's offering. Just like autodesk/discreet smoke/flint/flame.
You may or may not take in a raid, bob, etc.
Those cost extra. more like a 20k extra.
The basic set from avid, of a regular PC+ software+license, will completely kill the above price as it is. Avid ceritified equipment is pretty inflated.
1 cheapo PC + adrenine = wow! Sure you have some audio+ video I/O. But you can add that in a mac if you actually need the output.
Most of the price is in the Video card anyway and I want to see how much crazyness you can do in Motion with that much Vram. Motion is a fun program, if you don't need to do crazy things. RT goes a long way with that sucker.
How compact? Mini-tower? Shuttle-like? Cube? or a slightly larger mini?
I do think that Apple has an oversimplified model line. Not having many models was good for their lean times but really, the consumer product boils down to three models total, which strikes me as a one-size-fits-all attitude. I can understand their reasoning for how they do things, but that doesn't mean I agree with it, mainly because I think they go overboard with the idea to the point of it being an unquestioned ideology and anything that deviates from that extreme is shunned.
I think it's likely too early to expect anything that a computer gamer would want though. The platform is practically anti-gaming such that there's not much market for it (though it's a vicious self-reinforcing cycle, IMO) and such a system would imply that one is running Windows anyway. I'd be pleased with it though there's another reason I don't think it would happen is that most of the complainers tend to be people that slap together their own computers out of a few parts, they practically don't want anyone to take that away from them and I don't expect Apple to oblige to that demand to the slightest degree.
Who knows, maybe they'll surprise me, they've done that on occasion. I wasn't surprised by the Mac Pro being all dual Woodcrest (though I was fearing it would be all-conroe, then Kentsfield early next year), but I was surprised by how cheaply they'd offer such systems, and I was surprised they'd bothered offering more drive slots. I was really surprised by the dual optical drives. Dual optical used to be a complaint of mine but lately I rarely use one, only a single optical is something I can understand.
I'd try to market the GMA950 iMac to both business and the public. The mini needs a lockable desk because they are far too easy to steal.
Unfortunately that sums up our quagmire, in a nutshell. The mantra of the Mac experience seems to be..."make do with what Apple offers". In my case, that leaves me paying far more for a machine that really doesn't meet my needs simply to acquire a decent non-integrated system. I had originally expected to spend somewhere between $1,800 - $2,000 for Apple's PowerMac successor. Today I am now in the hole for more than $2,600. Thanks Apple!
I agree Apple has such a large hole at this point its difficult to see them not address it. The Mac Pro is simply far more machine than most people will need.
I think Ben is right on here. The vast majority of businesses don't need dedicated graphics in their workstations. Ours don't and therefore have integrated graphics.
If you want something to grow, an AIO isn't exactly the right fit. It's right if you want powerful, but uncomplicated and elegant. Believe me, OSX will take advantage of merom a lot better than windows.
I'm pretty sure iMac will get a Conroe not a Merom. Mac Book Pro will get a Merom.
Comments
Wait. Wait.
The best part.
I say, I say the best part is this:
A fully tricked out Mac Pro from the Apple Store worked out to . . .
Wait for it . . .
$17,981.81 with tax of course.
Yeah man. Apple sells an $18k computer.
In the stupefied words of Keanu Reeves:
Woah.
What you have in the Mac pro is far from a desktop computer; it is a server dressed up like a tower (hence the name "workstation") tower servers or workstations are not cheap, you do not find them at BestBuy, this aint competeing with the e-macheins POS Of The Week...
It is competeing with people like Boxx who as of this moment use slower RAM, and Windows XP Pro...IIRC XP cant handle more than 4 GB ram, so having 8GB Mobo capacity is a moot point.
Apple offers something that Boxx Aleinware Dell and Falcon can not: OSX; opening the door to the one app out there that is acctually starting to compete with Avid on a real level: FCS...FCS isnt quite up to where Avid is as far as motion graphics and effects, but with the demo of Core Animation we saw yesterday...it is only a matter of time.
To be honest, a really good Mac workstation can be put togehter using the Mac Pro for about $5000, and a fantastic dream of a station could be built for $10,000 and if things are as I remember them, $10,000 will get a few chuckles from Avid but not much else...
Unfortunately that sums up our quagmire, in a nutshell. The mantra of the Mac experience seems to be..."make do with what Apple offers". In my case, that leaves me paying far more for a machine that really doesn't meet my needs simply to acquire a decent non-integrated system. I had originally expected to spend somewhere between $1,800 - $2,000 for Apple's PowerMac successor. Today I am now in the hole for more than $2,600. Thanks Apple!
Yeah but you are ponying up the cash. so Apple wins, you lose.
Looks like Apple knows.
Looks like Apple is not really interested in growing marketshare but competing more in a vertical market of high end workstations and boutique laptopbased all in one systems for the art crowd.
Bull shit.
Utter shit of bull.
Apple has aggressivly pursued consumer computer markets as well as professional markets. With Apple's pro macs, the computers speak for themselves in both value, features, and strength. With consumer macs, Apple has agressivly built a brand and a set of computers that cater to the wants of the average home computer user. Apple has a very diversified target audience:
- Students/Teachers/Education (Functionality + Fun + Beautiful UI + iLife)
- Old People (Simplicity + Easy of Use + Beautiful UI + Sucurity + Easy Communication/iChat/Mail)
- Young People (Functionality + Fun + Youthfullness + Beautiful UI + iLife)
- Middle Aged People (Functionality + Security + Parent Controls + Family/iLife)
- Disabled/Impaired - (Universal Access)
- Creative Professionals - (Streamlined Workflow + Graphics support through OS + Great Pro Applications + Strength/Speed/Tech)
How do I delete my own entries? I click on Edit but I don't see any option to delete.
No, you can't delete posts. Tell me what you want to delete and I will do it.
Is Apple aggressively pursuing business environments that want to deploy machines with compact case design, moderate internal expandability, and separate monitor?
Mac mini. Anything more expensive and the company goes for the Dell.
But business won't go for it, because their IT guys want Windows so they can continue to spend hours removing spyware, and thus keep their jobs.
What "moderate internal expandability" would a secretary or administrative assistant need?
Mac mini. Anything more expensive and the company goes for the Dell.
But business won't go for it, because their IT guys want Windows so they can continue to spend hours removing spyware, and thus keep their jobs.
What "moderate internal expandability" would a secretary or administrative assistant need?
maybe more ram or a bigger hard disk. There are some business environments that may need better video then gma 950. Apple can make a mac mini with a i-mac video aka mac mini + or head less imac.
Is Apple aggressively pursuing business environments that want to deploy machines with compact case design, moderate internal expandability, and separate monitor?
How compact? Mini-tower? Shuttle-like? Cube? or a slightly larger mini?
I do think that Apple has an oversimplified model line. Not having many models was good for their lean times but really, the consumer product boils down to three models total, which strikes me as a one-size-fits-all attitude. I can understand their reasoning for how they do things, but that doesn't mean I agree with it, mainly because I think they go overboard with the idea to the point of it being an unquestioned ideology and anything that deviates from that extreme is shunned.
I think it's likely too early to expect anything that a computer gamer would want though. The platform is practically anti-gaming such that there's not much market for it (though it's a vicious self-reinforcing cycle, IMO) and such a system would imply that one is running Windows anyway. I'd be pleased with it though there's another reason I don't think it would happen is that most of the complainers tend to be people that slap together their own computers out of a few parts, they practically don't want anyone to take that away from them and I don't expect Apple to oblige to that demand to the slightest degree.
Who knows, maybe they'll surprise me, they've done that on occasion. I wasn't surprised by the Mac Pro being all dual Woodcrest (though I was fearing it would be all-conroe, then Kentsfield early next year), but I was surprised by how cheaply they'd offer such systems, and I was surprised they'd bothered offering more drive slots. I was really surprised by the dual optical drives. Dual optical used to be a complaint of mine but lately I rarely use one, only a single optical is something I can understand.
maybe more ram or a bigger hard disk. There are some business environments that may need better video then gma 950. Apple can make a mac mini with a i-mac video aka mac mini + or head less imac.
I think that's stretching the argument. There aren't any business needs that I can think of that require dedicated graphics and that a workstation would be out of the question for the task.
I was just talking about the computer and monitors. Avid is not just a computer. There is a lot of extra hardware that goes with it. We have three of them where I work. And 5 FCP HD all with Xserve Raids. And a Discreet Inferno. And a Quantel Henry.
What I want to see is a mega Mac Pro with FCP HD and Shake. That will be interesting. And it will cost a lot less than an Avid.
Not really. It depends on Avid's offering. Just like autodesk/discreet smoke/flint/flame.
You may or may not take in a raid, bob, etc.
Those cost extra. more like a 20k extra.
The basic set from avid, of a regular PC+ software+license, will completely kill the above price as it is. Avid ceritified equipment is pretty inflated.
1 cheapo PC + adrenine = wow! Sure you have some audio+ video I/O. But you can add that in a mac if you actually need the output.
Most of the price is in the Video card anyway and I want to see how much crazyness you can do in Motion with that much Vram. Motion is a fun program, if you don't need to do crazy things. RT goes a long way with that sucker.
How compact? Mini-tower? Shuttle-like? Cube? or a slightly larger mini?
I do think that Apple has an oversimplified model line. Not having many models was good for their lean times but really, the consumer product boils down to three models total, which strikes me as a one-size-fits-all attitude. I can understand their reasoning for how they do things, but that doesn't mean I agree with it, mainly because I think they go overboard with the idea to the point of it being an unquestioned ideology and anything that deviates from that extreme is shunned.
I think it's likely too early to expect anything that a computer gamer would want though. The platform is practically anti-gaming such that there's not much market for it (though it's a vicious self-reinforcing cycle, IMO) and such a system would imply that one is running Windows anyway. I'd be pleased with it though there's another reason I don't think it would happen is that most of the complainers tend to be people that slap together their own computers out of a few parts, they practically don't want anyone to take that away from them and I don't expect Apple to oblige to that demand to the slightest degree.
Who knows, maybe they'll surprise me, they've done that on occasion. I wasn't surprised by the Mac Pro being all dual Woodcrest (though I was fearing it would be all-conroe, then Kentsfield early next year), but I was surprised by how cheaply they'd offer such systems, and I was surprised they'd bothered offering more drive slots. I was really surprised by the dual optical drives. Dual optical used to be a complaint of mine but lately I rarely use one, only a single optical is something I can understand.
I'd try to market the GMA950 iMac to both business and the public. The mini needs a lockable desk because they are far too easy to steal.
I'd try to market the GMA950 iMac to both business and the public. The mini needs a lockable desk because they are far too easy to steal.
And how do you deal with the ram hit and how well does GMA 950 run the 3d desktop in windows vista and mac os x 10.5?
Unfortunately that sums up our quagmire, in a nutshell. The mantra of the Mac experience seems to be..."make do with what Apple offers". In my case, that leaves me paying far more for a machine that really doesn't meet my needs simply to acquire a decent non-integrated system. I had originally expected to spend somewhere between $1,800 - $2,000 for Apple's PowerMac successor. Today I am now in the hole for more than $2,600. Thanks Apple!
I agree Apple has such a large hole at this point its difficult to see them not address it. The Mac Pro is simply far more machine than most people will need.
And how do you deal with the ram hit and how well does GMA 950 run the 3d desktop in windows vista and mac os x 10.5?
It's for email and spreadsheets, not 3D.
It's for email and spreadsheets, not 3D.
I think Ben is right on here. The vast majority of businesses don't need dedicated graphics in their workstations. Ours don't and therefore have integrated graphics.
If you want something to grow, an AIO isn't exactly the right fit. It's right if you want powerful, but uncomplicated and elegant. Believe me, OSX will take advantage of merom a lot better than windows.
I'm pretty sure iMac will get a Conroe not a Merom. Mac Book Pro will get a Merom.
I'd try to market the GMA950 iMac to both business and the public. The mini needs a lockable desk because they are far too easy to steal.
The mini has a security slot so you can cable it to the desk. But yeah, it's small enough to hide in a briefcase/purse pretty rapidly.