I can't think of a single reason they couldn't put search in the original 5G. It can play the new higher resolution h.264 content from the iTS, play games, etc. If the search was based on a FILE system search, the old style, I might be inclined to cut them some slack. However, the search is searching a DATABASE, like listings in one or two files. So, like finding a letter or word in a word document, or on a web page, even a 16-year old 386 33Mhz could do it! I really don't think a hardware arguement can hold water on this issue. They simply didn't include it so the 5.5G looks more advanced. I love Apple products, but dammit they really dropped the ball on this one, IMO.
Excuses for not having the movie store was that the iPod wasn't ready for it.
I thought they were that the studios didn't want to agree to Steve's terms? Which they still don't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Nothing is ridiculous. If they don't update the older units for this, it will either be because they don't want to, or they can't.
I'm not saying that they can't. I'm just saying that IF they don't, that's a possibility.
Do you know for CERTAIN that they can?
It is ridiculous. What technical limitation could exist that allows the ipod to do everything the other one can, including many functions that are WAY more advanced than searching for a name. I'd be willing to bet that when someone gets their hands on one and takes it apart, the brains of the new one are identical to the brains of the last revision.
Quote:
Originally Posted by octane
I can't think of a single reason they couldn't put search in the original 5G. It can play the new higher resolution h.264 content from the iTS, play games, etc. If the search was based on a FILE system search, the old style, I might be inclined to cut them some slack. However, the search is searching a DATABASE, like listings in one or two files. So, like finding a letter or word in a word document, or on a web page, even a 16-year old 386 33Mhz could do it! I really don't think a hardware arguement can hold water on this issue. They simply didn't include it so the 5.5G looks more advanced. I love Apple products, but dammit they really dropped the ball on this one, IMO.
I agree with the first part. But I'm not convinced that they left it out to help sell the new one. It's entirely possible that they were just crunched for time, and they didn't work out all the bugs in time. I still think there's a good chance it will show up in a later update, hopefully they'll add gapless playback for previous nanos and shuffles as well.
I thought they were that the studios didn't want to agree to Steve's terms? Which they still don't.
That's another, more recent reason. But the one's most stated over the past year were the ones I gave.
9quote[
It is ridiculous. What technical limitation could exist that allows the ipod to do everything the other one can, including many functions that are WAY more advanced than searching for a name. I'd be willing to bet that when someone gets their hands on one and takes it apart, the brains of the new one are identical to the brains of the last revision.[/quote]
Say what you will, with no knowledge about it whatsoever. But I'm not saying that it is a reason, I'm just saying that it could be a reason. Either Apple will include it for older machines, or they won't. If they will, then it's moot. If they won't, it's either because they simply don't want to, or because, for some reason, they can't, or it's too difficult to. If it proves to be the same chips, then they don't want to. If the chips are different, then we simply don't know, no matter what anyone here says.
It's easy to say that something should be simple to apply, but not always.
I'm not going to argue this anymore. It isn't important anyway.
I can't think of a single reason they couldn't put search in the original 5G. It can play the new higher resolution h.264 content from the iTS, play games, etc. If the search was based on a FILE system search, the old style, I might be inclined to cut them some slack. However, the search is searching a DATABASE, like listings in one or two files. So, like finding a letter or word in a word document, or on a web page, even a 16-year old 386 33Mhz could do it! I really don't think a hardware arguement can hold water on this issue. They simply didn't include it so the 5.5G looks more advanced. I love Apple products, but dammit they really dropped the ball on this one, IMO.
Perhaps someone smarter than I could offer an explanation to this then:
The ipod uses an XML file to browse/organize music correct? Can't Apple simply write a program that searches that XML file? It's just food for thought; i'm not trying to start an argument. I figure if Apple doesn't do it, someone who hacks the 5G will.
It's easy to say that something should be simple to apply, but not always.
"Simple to apply" has nothing to do with it. You were saying it's possible that the *hardware* may have limitations that make it impossible. That is ridiculous.
Just use Ockham's razor. It handles video the same. It handles photos the same. It plays the same games. Other than the sorting, there are NO differences in how the software works.
The simple explanation is that the hardware "brains" are probably very similar if not identical. After all, if they weren't going to make any major changes to functionality, why go to the trouble of changing it? And if it's only missing one software feature, it's probably because they haven't implemented it (for whatever reason).
To argue that it could be impossible to implement this one feature, while everything else works fine requires imagining a sort of technological conspiracy theory. "Oh crap, we forgot to put in the SEARCH chip!" It simply defies common sense. It would be like if Apple shipped a computer and left out the calculator app, and saying it might be a hardware limitation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhetWurm
The ipod uses an XML file to browse/organize music correct? Can't Apple simply write a program that searches that XML file? It's just food for thought; i'm not trying to start an argument. I figure if Apple doesn't do it, someone who hacks the 5G will.
Not only CAN apple do it, they HAVE done it if it's working in the 5G+. Can anyone even imagine a technological limitation that would keep the one player from being able to do that (while doing ALL the other functionality present in both versions)?
I can't think of a single reason they couldn't put search in the original 5G. It can play the new higher resolution h.264 content from the iTS, play games, etc. If the search was based on a FILE system search, the old style, I might be inclined to cut them some slack. However, the search is searching a DATABASE, like listings in one or two files. So, like finding a letter or word in a word document, or on a web page, even a 16-year old 386 33Mhz could do it! I really don't think a hardware arguement can hold water on this issue. They simply didn't include it so the 5.5G looks more advanced. I love Apple products, but dammit they really dropped the ball on this one, IMO.
Search, search, search... the second I saw that on the iPod, I thought "telephone address book for the iPhone". I think we're seeing the first line of payoff from their cell phone research.
Search, search, search... the second I saw that on the iPod, I thought "telephone address book for the iPhone". I think we're seeing the first line of payoff from their cell phone research.
On that note... I would think Apple WOULD include that feature on current 5Gs because of the number of them already out in the market in use. Think of usage statistics and quality feedback that could generate? I am still at a loss to think of a good reason search was left out.
You: good evening. i just have a quick question. are the new iPods subject to my edu discount? i do not see the discounted price reflected on the website
Brenton: I'm happy to assist with that.
Brenton: There is not education discount for the iPods any longer, they all have the same price, which is even lower then the previous education discount.
And there is indeed a limited form of search, too -- when you
quickly scroll through a large music list, an overlaid initial letter
is displayed, enabling subsequent hopping to adjacent letter titles.
Do the new 30/80GB iPod's do a full substring search?
Yep. The letter thing is different than the search. And people with the original 5G are pretty pissed they don't have the feature.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenya
Brenton: There is not education discount for the iPods any longer, they all have the same price, which is even lower then the previous education discount.
Actually it is true. I just double cheked for myself and there are no discounts on any iPod. Nanos are $149- $249 with or without discount. Check for yourself. BTW, previous gen iPods (all models) can still be bought with the edu discount.
If they can do it, then i seriously expect them to. One of the selling points of the iPod was that it was forwards thinking in that the Firmware could be updated as technology improved. An example of this was the addition of AAC compatibility to the orignal iPods.
Don't let us down apple. If you can do it, then do it.
However, if it is just a matter of time, then i can wait a bit - i'm still loving the gapless feature = )
Comments
Excuses for not having the movie store was that the iPod wasn't ready for it.
I thought they were that the studios didn't want to agree to Steve's terms? Which they still don't.
Nothing is ridiculous. If they don't update the older units for this, it will either be because they don't want to, or they can't.
I'm not saying that they can't. I'm just saying that IF they don't, that's a possibility.
Do you know for CERTAIN that they can?
It is ridiculous. What technical limitation could exist that allows the ipod to do everything the other one can, including many functions that are WAY more advanced than searching for a name. I'd be willing to bet that when someone gets their hands on one and takes it apart, the brains of the new one are identical to the brains of the last revision.
I can't think of a single reason they couldn't put search in the original 5G. It can play the new higher resolution h.264 content from the iTS, play games, etc. If the search was based on a FILE system search, the old style, I might be inclined to cut them some slack. However, the search is searching a DATABASE, like listings in one or two files. So, like finding a letter or word in a word document, or on a web page, even a 16-year old 386 33Mhz could do it! I really don't think a hardware arguement can hold water on this issue. They simply didn't include it so the 5.5G looks more advanced. I love Apple products, but dammit they really dropped the ball on this one, IMO.
I agree with the first part. But I'm not convinced that they left it out to help sell the new one. It's entirely possible that they were just crunched for time, and they didn't work out all the bugs in time. I still think there's a good chance it will show up in a later update, hopefully they'll add gapless playback for previous nanos and shuffles as well.
I thought they were that the studios didn't want to agree to Steve's terms? Which they still don't.
That's another, more recent reason. But the one's most stated over the past year were the ones I gave.
9quote[
It is ridiculous. What technical limitation could exist that allows the ipod to do everything the other one can, including many functions that are WAY more advanced than searching for a name. I'd be willing to bet that when someone gets their hands on one and takes it apart, the brains of the new one are identical to the brains of the last revision.[/quote]
Say what you will, with no knowledge about it whatsoever. But I'm not saying that it is a reason, I'm just saying that it could be a reason. Either Apple will include it for older machines, or they won't. If they will, then it's moot. If they won't, it's either because they simply don't want to, or because, for some reason, they can't, or it's too difficult to. If it proves to be the same chips, then they don't want to. If the chips are different, then we simply don't know, no matter what anyone here says.
It's easy to say that something should be simple to apply, but not always.
I'm not going to argue this anymore. It isn't important anyway.
[/QUOTE]
I can't think of a single reason they couldn't put search in the original 5G. It can play the new higher resolution h.264 content from the iTS, play games, etc. If the search was based on a FILE system search, the old style, I might be inclined to cut them some slack. However, the search is searching a DATABASE, like listings in one or two files. So, like finding a letter or word in a word document, or on a web page, even a 16-year old 386 33Mhz could do it! I really don't think a hardware arguement can hold water on this issue. They simply didn't include it so the 5.5G looks more advanced. I love Apple products, but dammit they really dropped the ball on this one, IMO.
Perhaps someone smarter than I could offer an explanation to this then:
The ipod uses an XML file to browse/organize music correct? Can't Apple simply write a program that searches that XML file? It's just food for thought; i'm not trying to start an argument. I figure if Apple doesn't do it, someone who hacks the 5G will.
It's easy to say that something should be simple to apply, but not always.
"Simple to apply" has nothing to do with it. You were saying it's possible that the *hardware* may have limitations that make it impossible. That is ridiculous.
Just use Ockham's razor. It handles video the same. It handles photos the same. It plays the same games. Other than the sorting, there are NO differences in how the software works.
The simple explanation is that the hardware "brains" are probably very similar if not identical. After all, if they weren't going to make any major changes to functionality, why go to the trouble of changing it? And if it's only missing one software feature, it's probably because they haven't implemented it (for whatever reason).
To argue that it could be impossible to implement this one feature, while everything else works fine requires imagining a sort of technological conspiracy theory. "Oh crap, we forgot to put in the SEARCH chip!" It simply defies common sense. It would be like if Apple shipped a computer and left out the calculator app, and saying it might be a hardware limitation.
The ipod uses an XML file to browse/organize music correct? Can't Apple simply write a program that searches that XML file? It's just food for thought; i'm not trying to start an argument. I figure if Apple doesn't do it, someone who hacks the 5G will.
Not only CAN apple do it, they HAVE done it if it's working in the 5G+. Can anyone even imagine a technological limitation that would keep the one player from being able to do that (while doing ALL the other functionality present in both versions)?
I can't think of a single reason they couldn't put search in the original 5G. It can play the new higher resolution h.264 content from the iTS, play games, etc. If the search was based on a FILE system search, the old style, I might be inclined to cut them some slack. However, the search is searching a DATABASE, like listings in one or two files. So, like finding a letter or word in a word document, or on a web page, even a 16-year old 386 33Mhz could do it! I really don't think a hardware arguement can hold water on this issue. They simply didn't include it so the 5.5G looks more advanced. I love Apple products, but dammit they really dropped the ball on this one, IMO.
Search, search, search... the second I saw that on the iPod, I thought "telephone address book for the iPhone". I think we're seeing the first line of payoff from their cell phone research.
I think we're seeing the first line of payoff from their cell phone research.
?
Surely I can't be the only one to have suggested the feature to Apple via their feedback pages 2 - 3 years ago?
Search, search, search... the second I saw that on the iPod, I thought "telephone address book for the iPhone". I think we're seeing the first line of payoff from their cell phone research.
On that note... I would think Apple WOULD include that feature on current 5Gs because of the number of them already out in the market in use. Think of usage statistics and quality feedback that could generate? I am still at a loss to think of a good reason search was left out.
the old ones too. The version 1.2 firmware for my 60GB iPod
bears this out. I.e. running the QT Pro "export to iPod" on
large-format material now yields full-rez, non-transcoded 640x480 H.264
(for widescreen it's 640x360), not just for iTunes but for TV display as well.
Although my limited tests were with an RCA connector to an old analog TV,
the 480p appears to be preserved, so it seems we have a "silent" specs
upgrade to uncripple the Broadcom 2722 chip in the older iPods.
And there is indeed a limited form of search, too -- when you
quickly scroll through a large music list, an overlaid initial letter
is displayed, enabling subsequent hopping to adjacent letter titles.
Do the new 30/80GB iPod's do a full substring search?
Otherwise, it seems the new iPods are really just the same,
modulo disk drive size and a beefier battery.
Hi, my name is Brenton. How may I help you today?
Brenton: Hi! How are you?
You: good evening. i just have a quick question. are the new iPods subject to my edu discount? i do not see the discounted price reflected on the website
Brenton: I'm happy to assist with that.
Brenton: There is not education discount for the iPods any longer, they all have the same price, which is even lower then the previous education discount.
You: oh wow. thank you. have a nice night :-)
--
Kenya
And there is indeed a limited form of search, too -- when you
quickly scroll through a large music list, an overlaid initial letter
is displayed, enabling subsequent hopping to adjacent letter titles.
Do the new 30/80GB iPod's do a full substring search?
Yep. The letter thing is different than the search. And people with the original 5G are pretty pissed they don't have the feature.
Brenton: There is not education discount for the iPods any longer, they all have the same price, which is even lower then the previous education discount.
Not true for the nanos.
--
Kenya
I meant that for the nano, "even lower then the previous education discount" is NOT true.
No edu discount is true.
I meant that for the nano, "even lower then the previous education discount" is NOT true.
Well, when you calculate the fact that they all doubled in storage, yeah, they are cheaper.
According to the front page news, the hardware is the same (except a power consumtion tweak) so... how about that search function Apple??
I second that
I second that
Definitely. The search functon is a must.
If they can do it, then i seriously expect them to. One of the selling points of the iPod was that it was forwards thinking in that the Firmware could be updated as technology improved. An example of this was the addition of AAC compatibility to the orignal iPods.
Don't let us down apple. If you can do it, then do it.
However, if it is just a matter of time, then i can wait a bit - i'm still loving the gapless feature = )