So we're going to let OS X decide whether the zoom button maximizes or fits-to-content based on the display size? Makes no sense to me.
Even at 1280x1024...it's madness to have a single window take up the entire screen. It's a window fer christsake...not a frickin' patio door. If you want a fullscreen interface, bug the app developers or Apple to provide a fullscreen interface...simply making the window expand to fit the entire display area makes no sense...especially @ 1280x1024 but *ESPECIALLY* @ anything greater than.
This kind of thread comes up every 6 months. And it's always the same people that bring it up...as if things were suddenly going to change in the span of 6 months and longtime Mac users will have a change of heart and declare the Windows-way a winner.
Let me reiterate. If you want to fill the screen...bug the app developer to add a fullscreen option. There's no sense in changing something that has been a feature of Mac OS for the past 22 years because you disagree with what it does.
So we're going to let OS X decide whether the zoom button maximizes or fits-to-content based on the display size? Makes no sense to me.
Even at 1280x1024...it's madness to have a single window take up the entire screen. It's a window fer christsake...not a frickin' patio door. If you want a fullscreen interface, bug the app developers or Apple to provide a fullscreen interface...simply making the window expand to fit the entire display area makes no sense...especially @ 1280x1024 but *ESPECIALLY* @ anything greater than.
This kind of thread comes up every 6 months. And it's always the same people that bring it up...as if things were suddenly going to change in the span of 6 months and longtime Mac users will have a change of heart and declare the Windows-way a winner.
Let me reiterate. If you want to fill the screen...bug the app developer to add a fullscreen option. There's no sense in changing something that has been a feature of Mac OS for the past 22 years because you disagree with what it does.
I think what was being argued was that adding maximize to work from the zoom button with an option modifier would be a good idea. And it would.
Take almost any graphics software, for instance. Or take an integrated development environment. Or take Excel. At a measly 1280x1024, I'll want every single one of those full screen. If the apps at hand are web browsers, terminals and text editors, or if we're upwards from 1280x1024, then I'll use apps side by side.
This thing would be far more natural in the OS than as a separate "fullscreen mode" in every app. Just opt-click the green button.
I'd really like to see you back that assertion up, because I, and most others I know, loathe and laugh at the Maximize 'feature'. It's braindead to the edge of pointless.
Explain why it is pointless AND being used by millions of satisfied people.
Explain why it is pointless AND being used by millions of satisfied people.
Pointless has been covered ad nauseum in this and many other threads. Read them first so I don't have to repeat myself again.
Millions of satisfied people = Windows users who have no other choice. That's like stating that dry bread and water is the pinnacle of fine dining, by pointing at a population that has no other food source for proof.
Explain why it is pointless AND being used by millions of satisfied people.
It's not pointless, he just thinks it's pointless. Me and many others including some of my mates, much prefer maximize. My bet is he has either a larger moniter, or he doesn't have Tiger installed. Prove me wrong.
The difference is, I multi-task, and I drag and drop between apps constantly. It's the latter that is generally useless on Windows, so there's no compelling reason for Windows to provide anything other than Maximize.
But here's a news flash: Windows != MacOS X.
On MacOS X, Maximize would break much of the basic functionality of the UI. That's really all there is to it. Sure, you could let people use Maximize... and thereby shoot themselves in the foot for ever learning how powerful their system could be. And, if they did find out, and wanted to move to that new, more powerful approach, they'd have to move from Maximize to Zoom *anyway*. ie, they'd have to make the jump in any case. Just get it out of the way to begin with.
There is no good reason, under MacOS X, for the power user, or the novice, to have Maximize be either the default, or made into a default mode. It breaks things, it hides powerful functionality, and simply put, it's pointless.
Think about what problem you're trying to solve with Maximize.
1) See everything. Zoom does this, when done correctly. Finder doesn't count, it's broken, we all know this.
2) Block out everything else. Opt-Cmd-H: Hide Others. Done.
Anything else that falls under rational reasons, and not just personal preference?
Not that there's anything wrong with *having* a personal preference, but when adopting *your* particular personal preference would degrade the user experience for the majority, then that's not the best course for Apple, or their general customer base.
I still don't see any particular reason why someone would use maximize when they can have full screen. The one and only compelling argument to use maximize is to be able to visually focus on one app. If you merely want to get rid of the clutter of other apps, use "Hide Others", or opt-cmd-H. And if even that is not good enough, set the app to full screen, if it supports that, or ask developers to add such support.
For everything else, you should never have to do something like this. It'd be totally absurd.
Maximize is the most useless feature I have ever used. I am a recent switcher. Ever since I had first used Windows I have hated maximize. My friends try to use it on my Mac and I end up having half my screen taken up by white space. It is the WORST feature that could EVER be implemented on OS X. For me everything, but finder, works perfectly with zoom. It fits it to exactly where I want it. Even with Finder it usually manages to do it well. When I click "zoom" in finder I usually just want it to drag the window the the height of the screen so I can see my AIM, internet, etc still while using it. The only thing I use a full screen for is with GarageBand, and movie editing stuff. Thats because I want to devote my attention to it and see as much information as I can, which with those programs usually increased with the size, unlike most applications.
I'm on a 12" powerbook. I often use Safari in a 'maximized' view. When I click the zoom button, it will either make the window less wide (its intended function), or sometimes it places the window somewhere completely random, half of it off the screen.
They need to fix the functionality. I like the idea of holding a key combo to maximize the window.
On a 12" screen, it's fairly often that I want a Word document, a browser window, or even my iTunes window "maximized."
Comments
Even at 1280x1024...it's madness to have a single window take up the entire screen. It's a window fer christsake...not a frickin' patio door. If you want a fullscreen interface, bug the app developers or Apple to provide a fullscreen interface...simply making the window expand to fit the entire display area makes no sense...especially @ 1280x1024 but *ESPECIALLY* @ anything greater than.
This kind of thread comes up every 6 months. And it's always the same people that bring it up...as if things were suddenly going to change in the span of 6 months and longtime Mac users will have a change of heart and declare the Windows-way a winner.
Let me reiterate. If you want to fill the screen...bug the app developer to add a fullscreen option. There's no sense in changing something that has been a feature of Mac OS for the past 22 years because you disagree with what it does.
You mean your life on digg?
Imagine that, I've a life outside digg too! Hard to believe I know, but I have a girlfriend, and friends.
So we're going to let OS X decide whether the zoom button maximizes or fits-to-content based on the display size? Makes no sense to me.
Even at 1280x1024...it's madness to have a single window take up the entire screen. It's a window fer christsake...not a frickin' patio door. If you want a fullscreen interface, bug the app developers or Apple to provide a fullscreen interface...simply making the window expand to fit the entire display area makes no sense...especially @ 1280x1024 but *ESPECIALLY* @ anything greater than.
This kind of thread comes up every 6 months. And it's always the same people that bring it up...as if things were suddenly going to change in the span of 6 months and longtime Mac users will have a change of heart and declare the Windows-way a winner.
Let me reiterate. If you want to fill the screen...bug the app developer to add a fullscreen option. There's no sense in changing something that has been a feature of Mac OS for the past 22 years because you disagree with what it does.
I think what was being argued was that adding maximize to work from the zoom button with an option modifier would be a good idea. And it would.
Take almost any graphics software, for instance. Or take an integrated development environment. Or take Excel. At a measly 1280x1024, I'll want every single one of those full screen. If the apps at hand are web browsers, terminals and text editors, or if we're upwards from 1280x1024, then I'll use apps side by side.
This thing would be far more natural in the OS than as a separate "fullscreen mode" in every app. Just opt-click the green button.
But, no SysPref to make it the default, and for god's sake, not having it replace Zoom.
I'd really like to see you back that assertion up, because I, and most others I know, loathe and laugh at the Maximize 'feature'. It's braindead to the edge of pointless.
Explain why it is pointless AND being used by millions of satisfied people.
Explain why it is pointless AND being used by millions of satisfied people.
Pointless has been covered ad nauseum in this and many other threads. Read them first so I don't have to repeat myself again.
Millions of satisfied people = Windows users who have no other choice. That's like stating that dry bread and water is the pinnacle of fine dining, by pointing at a population that has no other food source for proof.
Agreed, even I, who thinks Maximize is simply a stupid non-feature, can't see a problem with option-clicking on Zoom to get it.
But, no SysPref to make it the default, and for god's sake, not having it replace Zoom.
Off by default, and yes System Prefs.
Explain why it is pointless AND being used by millions of satisfied people.
It's not pointless, he just thinks it's pointless. Me and many others including some of my mates, much prefer maximize. My bet is he has either a larger moniter, or he doesn't have Tiger installed. Prove me wrong.
The difference is, I multi-task, and I drag and drop between apps constantly. It's the latter that is generally useless on Windows, so there's no compelling reason for Windows to provide anything other than Maximize.
But here's a news flash: Windows != MacOS X.
On MacOS X, Maximize would break much of the basic functionality of the UI. That's really all there is to it. Sure, you could let people use Maximize... and thereby shoot themselves in the foot for ever learning how powerful their system could be. And, if they did find out, and wanted to move to that new, more powerful approach, they'd have to move from Maximize to Zoom *anyway*. ie, they'd have to make the jump in any case. Just get it out of the way to begin with.
There is no good reason, under MacOS X, for the power user, or the novice, to have Maximize be either the default, or made into a default mode. It breaks things, it hides powerful functionality, and simply put, it's pointless.
Think about what problem you're trying to solve with Maximize.
1) See everything. Zoom does this, when done correctly. Finder doesn't count, it's broken, we all know this.
2) Block out everything else. Opt-Cmd-H: Hide Others. Done.
Anything else that falls under rational reasons, and not just personal preference?
Not that there's anything wrong with *having* a personal preference, but when adopting *your* particular personal preference would degrade the user experience for the majority, then that's not the best course for Apple, or their general customer base.
For everything else, you should never have to do something like this. It'd be totally absurd.
Imagine that, I've a life outside digg too! Hard to believe I know, but I have a girlfriend, and friends.
And a fancy domain.
And a fancy domain.
More than one.. you only know about one of them, more revealed shortly
15" monitor, 10.4. (And I rarely use Expose.)
You're missing out... it's one of the best aspects of the OS IMO.
@ Kickaha,
why did you pick that username?
I picked mine cause I'm from here.
They need to fix the functionality. I like the idea of holding a key combo to maximize the window.
On a 12" screen, it's fairly often that I want a Word document, a browser window, or even my iTunes window "maximized."