Roughly speaking, the benchmarks make sense. The G3 and the G4 are the same processor except for Altivec. The G3 runs a slower bus but has a larger cache. The tests which show them performing about the same do not use Altivec so the result is not that surprising. When Altivec comes into play the 12 inch PowerBook is clearly faster.
Personally, I think the ability to do monitor spanning, and the smaller size make this a very attractive product.
I asked several people at the Apple booth if users could change the HD themselves like in Pismo PBs. The answer was not clear. It seems to be somewhere in between. Not as hard as the iBook but more difficult than the Pismo. Access is by unscrewing the bottom plate, not through the keyboard.
<strong>I would wait for 1GB DDR RAM and 1GHz G4 or IBM 970 with a PCMCIA slot, DVI, backlit keyboard, and FireWire 800 before I would consider it ready for prime time. This first edition is too close to the iBook to be worth pursuing yet.
<strong>I would wait for 1GB DDR RAM and 1GHz G4 or IBM 970 with a PCMCIA slot, DVI, backlit keyboard, and FireWire 800 before I would consider it ready for prime time. This first edition is too close to the iBook to be worth pursuing yet.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I tend to agree. It's almost the perfect laptop for my purposes, but the relatively low memory (soldered in?), processor speed the wrong side of the psychologically important 1GHz mark and lack of DVI mean I'll wait for the next revision. The lack of DVI seems surprising, as Apple tend to push the PowerBooks as desktop replacements that can be hooked up to an Apple LCD when not on the road (albeit with a DVI-ADC adapter).
I agree as well, the PB12 doesn't belong in he same range as it's bigger brothers. It's a top of the line ibook. I don't think Apple has faith in it's buyer. I would be willing to pay for L3 cache, 1ghz, DV1 and an ATI. Hopefully the next revision will be the answer to our prayers. I was actually happy to see that Apple didn't skimp out on the Powerbook 17inch.
its sad to see that people are never happy and that they will always wait for ONE more thing, or they'd get it IF it had this feature
i don't understand why you care if it costs too much, if it does don't buy it. i dont see how it affects you, the pbooks are getting good reviews from other people...just not you guys. the only real two reasons you probably think its too expensive is because a)you want one but don't want to pay that much or...no thats probably the reason
i realize you want more features for cheaper, and i do too but this is capitalism, not a super apple computer giveaway
<strong> I would be willing to pay for L3 cache, 1ghz, DV1 and an ATI. </strong><hr></blockquote>
And you can, they're called the 15 and 17" Powerbooks. You may be willing to pay more, but you are the minority, I'm not. Apple is trying, it seems finally, 2 years too late, but finally trying to drive their prices down. They cannot survive if they don't do this, and they won't be able to do it unless they start now.
As for it's classification.
It is a powerbook, a sub-note powerbook, when you compare its features to a laptop of similar size, you see that they didn't skimp on anything and that it is quite substantially more powerful and feature rich than similar products.
I think those who ask for more than that little book has to offer are totally missing the point of the product: The very size of its screen tells you: "Hey!!! I'm not a heavy Photoshop machine!!!",
I mean, I'm sure it can handle all your every day tasks better than any PC, and some light photoshop, but if you try to do actual design work on it the little screen you'll get prett frustrated. Think about it: how much memory do you really need to rip CD's, surf the web and download pictures from you digital camera?
It is obvious that if you're going to do some processor intensive work on it (i.e. Photoshop, Illustrator, Lightwave) you're gonna need a bigger screen!!!
Just admit it: the little machine is perfect for what it was designed to do.
And stop whinning about the company that provides you with the best computing experience you could ever dream of!!!
I think those who ask for more than that little book has to offer are totally missing the point of the product: The very size of its screen tells you: "Hey!!! I'm not a heavy Photoshop machine!!!",
I mean, I'm sure it can handle all your every day tasks better than any PC, and some light photoshop, but if you try to do actual design work on it the little screen you'll get pretty frustrated. Think about it: how much memory do you really need to rip CD's, surf the web and download pictures from you digital camera?
It is obvious that if you're going to do some processor intensive work on it (i.e. Photoshop, Illustrator, Lightwave) you're gonna need a bigger screen!!!
Just admit it: the little machine is perfect for what it was designed to do.
And stop whinning about the company that provides you with the best computing experience you could ever dream of!!!
<strong>I believe the Powerbook 12inch was a last minute decision, hence the rip-off ibook design. This is Apple saying we have no new technology to give, so here is a high margin computer that seems new and competitive. My recommendation to all is wait; the 12inch right now is not worth the investment. 4200 rpm drive, 867mhz with no L3 cache, slow Geoforce 2 with a 4 in front, slow bus, slow ram all for a great price of 1800.00. One more thing, stop bad mouthing barefeats, every benchmark test that comes out this board rips the person who did it because it wasn?t done under a specific mandatory environment or lighting. If you think you can do better then do it, I thought it was pretty cool of the guy to take the time and risk confrontation from an Apple employee to do this for us.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You're way off base wrt barefeats; they're known to be a total shit sandwich, just like mosr. The guys has fudged/extrapolated numbers for machines he doesn't actually posess. This last suite of 'tests' is a joke. Yes, we do question every statistic someone throws at us, but rightly so. And especially wrt barefeats.
I happen to agree that the mini isn't worth the cash as compared to the ibook 800, however it is a very low margin machine, not high. The high end machines subsidise the low end.
<strong>i realize you want more features for cheaper, and i do too but this is capitalism, not a super apple computer giveaway</strong><hr></blockquote>
Speaking as a non mac user looking to replace my current notebook (vaio z600 something or other). I would firstly like to thank you all for answering most of the questions i or any potential buyer with a clue should ask.
But i would also like to point out that following quite a bit of research on my behalf the only 12" machine i can find with a spec higher than 256mb memory,40gb disk pentium III ish processor is .... no wait for it ... the upgraded pb12.
As a result i will soon be the proud owner of the above despite its lack or IR (correct me if i'm wrong here, i know its got bluetooth but i've been through 3 mobile phones in 2 years and can't justify another). The lack of a pcmcia slot concerns me a little but not enough to put me of owning what is currently the market leading sub notebook in terms of looks and spec.
I would buy the machine except it has a few shortcomings that I'm sure will be addressed in the first revision.
First, doesn't have a tri-fold screen that spans to 4800 x 1000 so I could slightly fold in the side screens and play driving games with side door windows. Also, I want to be able to play three different iTunes visualizations simultaneously while flying ATA. Lastly, even though the tri-fold screen is "good enough" for a two hour flight, I want dual ADC ports on back so I can use two 23" displays (I'll accept dual ADC instead of dual wireless ports...we can't have everything), one for my palettes and another for internet porn. I like to have all of my palettes open at once so I can see every single feature I don't know how to use, and since the only thing a computer is really good for these days is the internet, and the only thing the internet is good for these days is porn, the fifth screen will be getting a lot of use.
And what's with the keyboard that doesn't glow? Who's crazy idea was that?
EDIT: Just noticed the previous poster asking for IR. Good point. I don't want to leave my Newton behind.
<strong>I would buy the machine except it has a few shortcomings that I'm sure will be addressed in the first revision.
First, doesn't have a tri-fold screen that spans to 4800 x 1000 so I could slightly fold in the side screens and play driving games with side door windows. Also, I want to be able to play three different iTunes visualizations simultaneously while flying ATA. Lastly, even though the tri-fold screen is "good enough" for a two hour flight, I want dual ADC ports on back so I can use two 23" displays (I'll accept dual ADC instead of dual wireless ports...we can't have everything), one for my palettes and another for internet porn. I like to have all of my palettes open at once so I can see every single feature I don't know how to use, and since the only thing a computer is really good for these days is the internet, and the only thing the internet is good for these days is porn, the fifth screen will be getting a lot of use.
And what's with the keyboard that doesn't glow? Who's crazy idea was that?
EDIT: Just noticed the previous poster asking for IR. Good point. I don't want to leave my Newton behind.
Has anyone noticed that there already exist benchmarks for the 12"Albook <a href="http://ladd.dyndns.org/xbench/"; target="_blank">here</a>? Interesting in comparison with the ones of barefeats.
Comments
Personally, I think the ability to do monitor spanning, and the smaller size make this a very attractive product.
I asked several people at the Apple booth if users could change the HD themselves like in Pismo PBs. The answer was not clear. It seems to be somewhere in between. Not as hard as the iBook but more difficult than the Pismo. Access is by unscrewing the bottom plate, not through the keyboard.
<strong>I would wait for 1GB DDR RAM and 1GHz G4 or IBM 970 with a PCMCIA slot, DVI, backlit keyboard, and FireWire 800 before I would consider it ready for prime time. This first edition is too close to the iBook to be worth pursuing yet.
[ 01-16-2003: Message edited by: Multimedia ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
I couldn't have said it better myself...
<strong>I would wait for 1GB DDR RAM and 1GHz G4 or IBM 970 with a PCMCIA slot, DVI, backlit keyboard, and FireWire 800 before I would consider it ready for prime time. This first edition is too close to the iBook to be worth pursuing yet.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I tend to agree. It's almost the perfect laptop for my purposes, but the relatively low memory (soldered in?), processor speed the wrong side of the psychologically important 1GHz mark and lack of DVI mean I'll wait for the next revision. The lack of DVI seems surprising, as Apple tend to push the PowerBooks as desktop replacements that can be hooked up to an Apple LCD when not on the road (albeit with a DVI-ADC adapter).
[ 01-16-2003: Message edited by: RodUK ]</p>
<strong>Roughly speaking, the benchmarks make sense. The G3 and the G4 are the same processor except for Altivec.</strong><hr></blockquote>
They actually aren't, but that's something you can find out for yourself if you dig deep enough.
i don't understand why you care if it costs too much, if it does don't buy it. i dont see how it affects you, the pbooks are getting good reviews from other people...just not you guys. the only real two reasons you probably think its too expensive is because a)you want one but don't want to pay that much or...no thats probably the reason
i realize you want more features for cheaper, and i do too but this is capitalism, not a super apple computer giveaway
[ 01-20-2003: Message edited by: ast3r3x ]</p>
<strong> I would be willing to pay for L3 cache, 1ghz, DV1 and an ATI. </strong><hr></blockquote>
And you can, they're called the 15 and 17" Powerbooks. You may be willing to pay more, but you are the minority, I'm not. Apple is trying, it seems finally, 2 years too late, but finally trying to drive their prices down. They cannot survive if they don't do this, and they won't be able to do it unless they start now.
As for it's classification.
It is a powerbook, a sub-note powerbook, when you compare its features to a laptop of similar size, you see that they didn't skimp on anything and that it is quite substantially more powerful and feature rich than similar products.
I mean, I'm sure it can handle all your every day tasks better than any PC, and some light photoshop, but if you try to do actual design work on it the little screen you'll get prett frustrated. Think about it: how much memory do you really need to rip CD's, surf the web and download pictures from you digital camera?
It is obvious that if you're going to do some processor intensive work on it (i.e. Photoshop, Illustrator, Lightwave) you're gonna need a bigger screen!!!
Just admit it: the little machine is perfect for what it was designed to do.
And stop whinning about the company that provides you with the best computing experience you could ever dream of!!!
I mean, I'm sure it can handle all your every day tasks better than any PC, and some light photoshop, but if you try to do actual design work on it the little screen you'll get pretty frustrated. Think about it: how much memory do you really need to rip CD's, surf the web and download pictures from you digital camera?
It is obvious that if you're going to do some processor intensive work on it (i.e. Photoshop, Illustrator, Lightwave) you're gonna need a bigger screen!!!
Just admit it: the little machine is perfect for what it was designed to do.
And stop whinning about the company that provides you with the best computing experience you could ever dream of!!!
<strong>I believe the Powerbook 12inch was a last minute decision, hence the rip-off ibook design. This is Apple saying we have no new technology to give, so here is a high margin computer that seems new and competitive. My recommendation to all is wait; the 12inch right now is not worth the investment. 4200 rpm drive, 867mhz with no L3 cache, slow Geoforce 2 with a 4 in front, slow bus, slow ram all for a great price of 1800.00. One more thing, stop bad mouthing barefeats, every benchmark test that comes out this board rips the person who did it because it wasn?t done under a specific mandatory environment or lighting. If you think you can do better then do it, I thought it was pretty cool of the guy to take the time and risk confrontation from an Apple employee to do this for us.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You're way off base wrt barefeats; they're known to be a total shit sandwich, just like mosr. The guys has fudged/extrapolated numbers for machines he doesn't actually posess. This last suite of 'tests' is a joke. Yes, we do question every statistic someone throws at us, but rightly so. And especially wrt barefeats.
I happen to agree that the mini isn't worth the cash as compared to the ibook 800, however it is a very low margin machine, not high. The high end machines subsidise the low end.
<strong>i realize you want more features for cheaper, and i do too but this is capitalism, not a super apple computer giveaway</strong><hr></blockquote>
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
But i would also like to point out that following quite a bit of research on my behalf the only 12" machine i can find with a spec higher than 256mb memory,40gb disk pentium III ish processor is .... no wait for it ... the upgraded pb12.
As a result i will soon be the proud owner of the above despite its lack or IR (correct me if i'm wrong here, i know its got bluetooth but i've been through 3 mobile phones in 2 years and can't justify another). The lack of a pcmcia slot concerns me a little but not enough to put me of owning what is currently the market leading sub notebook in terms of looks and spec.
Well done Apple.
First, doesn't have a tri-fold screen that spans to 4800 x 1000 so I could slightly fold in the side screens and play driving games with side door windows. Also, I want to be able to play three different iTunes visualizations simultaneously while flying ATA. Lastly, even though the tri-fold screen is "good enough" for a two hour flight, I want dual ADC ports on back so I can use two 23" displays (I'll accept dual ADC instead of dual wireless ports...we can't have everything), one for my palettes and another for internet porn. I like to have all of my palettes open at once so I can see every single feature I don't know how to use, and since the only thing a computer is really good for these days is the internet, and the only thing the internet is good for these days is porn, the fifth screen will be getting a lot of use.
And what's with the keyboard that doesn't glow? Who's crazy idea was that?
EDIT: Just noticed the previous poster asking for IR. Good point. I don't want to leave my Newton behind.
[ 01-22-2003: Message edited by: bunge ]</p>
<strong>I would buy the machine except it has a few shortcomings that I'm sure will be addressed in the first revision.
First, doesn't have a tri-fold screen that spans to 4800 x 1000 so I could slightly fold in the side screens and play driving games with side door windows. Also, I want to be able to play three different iTunes visualizations simultaneously while flying ATA. Lastly, even though the tri-fold screen is "good enough" for a two hour flight, I want dual ADC ports on back so I can use two 23" displays (I'll accept dual ADC instead of dual wireless ports...we can't have everything), one for my palettes and another for internet porn. I like to have all of my palettes open at once so I can see every single feature I don't know how to use, and since the only thing a computer is really good for these days is the internet, and the only thing the internet is good for these days is porn, the fifth screen will be getting a lot of use.
And what's with the keyboard that doesn't glow? Who's crazy idea was that?
EDIT: Just noticed the previous poster asking for IR. Good point. I don't want to leave my Newton behind.
[ 01-22-2003: Message edited by: bunge ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's on occasions like this that we use a smiley. They?re there for a reason.
I hear they are starting to ship now.
<strong>
It's on occasions like this that we use a smiley. They?re there for a reason.
Rough average for a PB12 with 256MB RAM, 75.
Rough average for a iBook800 with 640MB, 52.
50% faster not including altivec, which should make any altivec enabled process at least 2X faster.