Regarding the iMac AIO, what would be a legitimate reason for a corporation to reject it for their 5,000 secretaries and administrative assistants? Certainly PCIe slots and gee-whiz GPUs would not be a consideration. And they are buying monitors anyway. Why would the corporation insist on the bulky and two-piece tower/monitor setup, with its extra cord and footprint, over the iMac $999 deal? Maybe in lots of 5,000 they could get them for $799.
Consider the monitor breaking / burning out. The machine is toast after that. I suppose they can pull the harddrive out and put it in another one. But Wouldn't it be easier to just switch the lcd?
Consider the monitor breaking / burning out. The machine is toast after that. I suppose they can pull the harddrive out and put it in another one. But Wouldn't it be easier to just switch the lcd?
Send to Apple and have them swap out the LCD on Applecare. Yes, more annoying as you have to restore onto a temp machine while the machine is out.
But while I can retrieve backups from retrospect on my mac without IT intervention it is more difficult on Windows. Eh, mostly its what IT is willing to do rather than LCD as an issue. TCo should be similar unless you have a heavy MS infrastructure. Somethings just don't run well outside of explorer.
It's difficult enough to get people to switch away from something they are accustomed to using and try something different. Why add the necessity for folks to also give up their familiar tower and buy either the tiny Mini or the iMac? Does this make sense? Personally, I think not.
You guys are placing way too much on the notion that people actively choose a separate monitor and desktop.
When you walk into Best Buy, Circuit City, etc the tower desktop is your only option. When you go to Dell's website they don't give equal attention to their AIO as they do their towers. You have to navigate Dell's labyrinth to find its AIO.
Shuttle PC is not sold in mainstream high volume retail channels. Shuttle PC does not advertise in mainstream media. Generally the people who buy Shuttle PC are pretty much people who already know about it or people who seek it out.
These are not options given to the general public as information to enable them to actively choose.
Quote:
Simple! Then the commercials should be tauting the virtues of AIO and ultra SFF over towers, no?
People already understand these advantages.
This is one of the reason I continue to point out laptops. Laptop sales are growing because they are a compact all-in-one.
Quote:
Consider the monitor breaking / burning out. The machine is toast after that. I suppose they can pull the harddrive out and put it in another one. But Wouldn't it be easier to just switch the lcd?
Any disadvantage you can point out with the desktop AIO is basically the exact same disadvantage with the laptop. Yet laptops are outgrowing desktops.
Send to Apple and have them swap out the LCD on Applecare. Yes, more annoying as you have to restore onto a temp machine while the machine is out.
But while I can retrieve backups from retrospect on my mac without IT intervention it is more difficult on Windows. Eh, mostly its what IT is willing to do rather than LCD as an issue. TCo should be similar unless you have a heavy MS infrastructure. Somethings just don't run well outside of explorer.
Vinea
I guess you can send it to apple, switch the harddrive or back it up. But it takes more time than just replacing the monitor. I'm probably splitting hairs.
What is TCo?
Edit: Actually the more I think about it, the more I can see why a business would want a machine with expandability over a machine without one. Keep in mind I have only worked in IT one time in my life and that was for a news paper. They had over 50 macs and 40 pcs. And there was 2 IT people. Anyways, I remember doing processor upgrades in those macs and pcs. This was back in the beige power mac days. Adding g3 and g4 cards. Some of the machines that were around at the time were frankenmacs 3-5 years old. Long story short, I can see a business wanting to upgrade a machine along with the times changing, other than replacing the whole thing. It does cost less money... at least in the short term. Only drawback I can see is more IT problems from that machine... but with apple going intel, the processors should be drop in replacements. Especially since all the sockets are pretty modern now (479, 775, 771). I could see IT wanting to swap a lcd and have that machine up and running instead of actually sending in that machine to apple. That is 1 less machine they have, that they otherwise could have had if they replaced the lcd. And why would they want another company fixing their computers? Could be even more of a problem because you HAVE to yank a harddrive out of a work computer when it's being sent in because of sensitive data on the harddrive. Seems like overkill for businesses to me. To me the only machines that are optional for a real business is the mac pro and the xserve.
Any disadvantage you can point out with the desktop AIO is basically the exact same disadvantage with the laptop. Yet laptops are outgrowing desktops.
I'm not an expert on market, so take anything I say with a grain of salt...
But, I don't see the laptop's gaining ground this quickly forever. I think a lot of people couldn't afford laptops until recently. And a laptop is definitely not for everyone. A family isn't going to share a laptop. The screens are too small for elders. Would you trust your 7 year old with a laptop at home? Laptops are popular with school kids. I think they are popular with people on the go. But there will always be market areas a laptop will fail to penetrate. Example, I've been working off of a 1.25ghz g4 15" pb for the last eighteen months (with a 20" samsung widescreen). I can't stand to work on a laptop any more. I'm tired of having to use a 15" screen (or even a 17" screen) as a primary monitor. I really messed up when I sold my powermac g5.
Again take these comments with the grain of salt... but I kinda predicts that there will be a big spike in desktop sales in the next year. I think businesses are ready to get the next generation of hardware (single core out, dual / quad core in). And I feel consumers are also in this same boat. Obviously we'll have to wait and see.
Regarding the iMac AIO, what would be a legitimate reason for a corporation to reject it for their 5,000 secretaries and administrative assistants? . . . Why would the corporation insist on the bulky and two-piece tower/monitor setup, with its extra cord and footprint, over the iMac . . ?
I like the question, since I believe business is one of two markets Apple needs to put more effort into. Possibly too, business may be more receptive to change than say consumers looking at the low and mid price range, but I have to agree with emig647, that interchangeable monitors can be a big plus. Got a secretary with poor eyesight? Give the secretary a larger display. The computer configuration remains the same.
Possibly, business might be receptive to something like a big mini from Apple, which has been discussed before. I think the current Mac Mini is too small, with limited number of I/O ports. Using standard drives in a much larger mini would also lower the manufacturing cost, and let Apple sell it for less, which should appeal to business.
Make the footprint large enough, and folks could place an Apple display on top of it, keeping desk clutter down. I don't think many other displays would fit on top. The Apple display has a fairly small base. Hmmm. It could generate more display sales for Apple.
I guess you can send it to apple, switch the harddrive or back it up. But it takes more time than just replacing the monitor. I'm probably splitting hairs.
Yes, it is a downside of an AIOs.
Quote:
What is TCo?
Total cost of ownership...should be TCO.
Quote:
Edit: Actually the more I think about it, the more I can see why a business would want a machine with expandability over a machine without one. Keep in mind I have only worked in IT one time in my life and that was for a news paper. They had over 50 macs and 40 pcs. And there was 2 IT people. Anyways, I remember doing processor upgrades in those macs and pcs. This was back in the beige power mac days. Adding g3 and g4 cards. Some of the machines that were around at the time were frankenmacs 3-5 years old. Long story short, I can see a business wanting to upgrade a machine along with the times changing, other than replacing the whole thing. It does cost less money... at least in the short term.
Back then a PC was a larger investment. Today they can be much less expensive. Cheaper to EBay or donate older machines and get new ones from Dell every 3 years.
Quote:
And why would they want another company fixing their computers? Could be even more of a problem because you HAVE to yank a harddrive out of a work computer when it's being sent in because of sensitive data on the harddrive. Seems like overkill for businesses to me.
Nah...cheaper to outsource than maintain your own techs. Where I work we have a large IT staff and they still send stuff out to Dell or Apple for service. Even for fairly benign problems. Of course, given their age I'd say a good 80-90% of our desktops are under warranty as our replacement cycle is 3-4 years.
You guys are placing way too much on the notion that people actively choose a separate monitor and desktop.
I agree with you on this point. Most "average" computer users buy a bundle. They take whatever PC and Monitor combination comes together for the price they want.
That said, there is still an issue that keeps getting lost in this long, long, drawn-out discussion. There are many people -- like me -- who want a desktop computer, with desktop components, at a resonable price.
Mac Mini - All notebook components. Notebook CPU, notebook hard drive, integrated graphics.
iMac - Some notebook components. Notebook CPU, limited upgrade options (No high speed HD, no high speed graphics)
Mac Pro - Server components. Dual Xeon processors. Prices quickly jump over $3,000 when customized.
There is still a glaring hole between the Mini and the Mac Pro for a Desktop PC with desktop components at a consumer (or even prosumer) price. Rather than trying to shoe-horn me into a computer that's not the right fit, why not let me buy a Mac without an LCD? Instead, let me spend that savings on a 2.66 of 3.0 GHz Core 2 Duo, more memory or a 10,000 RPM HDD.
The Mac Pro is over the moon in performance. The iMac is somewhat under the moon. There's still a sweet spot in there that Apple isn't hitting.
I like the question, since I believe business is one of two markets Apple needs to put more effort into. Possibly too, business may be more receptive to change than say consumers looking at the low and mid price range, but I have to agree with emig647, that interchangeable monitors can be a big plus.
The monitor and form factor are minor issues in comparison to the IT infrastructure that is very much oriented around MS and OSX is missing major business software. Even the lower TCO on a unit basis doesn't seem to make up for that. We have a handful of mac IT folks supporting several hundred Mac users (maybe even a thousand but I doubt it). We have a bunch more IT folks supporting a few thousand users. The ratios aren't close....it takes far fewer folks to maintain the mac side than the PC side.
The caveat is you can't do everything you need on the mac. Apple made the decision not to compete in the corporate arena and Mac users are certainly 2nd class citizens in most Exchange/LCS shops. The intergration of Entourage w/Exchange vs Outlook still lags greatly. Lack of ActiveX cripples many web based apps common to business. Even Outlook Web Access suffers greatly on the Mac platform. Its going to suck more when we lose VB from Excel.
Parallels (and the additional costs) is a nice change but for the basic business user a $300-$400 Dell is more than adequate. About the only thing you really miss out on is Keynote vs PowerPoint. And perhaps iChat/AV.
Just a couple more thought on a business Mac. The business market can be segmented, just like we segment the overall market for personal computers. Apple is pretty good at picking out those segments where the Mac can shine the most. I'm sure this is the strategy Apple would employ. In time, Apple could develop applications and technology that would help it compete in more and more business market segments. I believe Apple has already started on this course by its offerings in the server market.
One last thought -- as each particular company switches to the Mac, it will be some small influence on the employees to think about switching too. It is a domino effect. Some employees will switch, to be compatible with their job.
There is still a glaring hole between the Mini and the Mac Pro for a Desktop PC with desktop components at a consumer (or even prosumer) price. Rather than trying to shoe-horn me into a computer that's not the right fit, why not let me buy a Mac without an LCD? Instead, let me spend that savings on a 2.66 of 3.0 GHz Core 2 Duo, more memory or a 10,000 RPM HDD.
The Mac Pro is over the moon in performance. The iMac is somewhat under the moon. There's still a sweet spot in there that Apple isn't hitting.
Couldn't have said it any better. All of us can argue until the cows come home. But I think a majority of us agree there is 'something' missing. I'm actually surprised this thread has gone on as long as it has.
employees to think about switching too. It is a domino effect. Some employees will switch, to be compatible with their job.
YEP!!! That is why a lot of school proposals with macs get shot down. All of the parents of the kids ore board members use pc's because that is what they have to work on. If they have to work on a mac... better support for the mac consumers. Just my 47 cents.
You guys are placing way too much on the notion that people actively choose a separate monitor and desktop.
When you walk into Best Buy, Circuit City, etc the tower desktop is your only option. When you go to Dell's website they don't give equal attention to their AIO as they do their towers. You have to navigate Dell's labyrinth to find its AIO.
Shuttle PC is not sold in mainstream high volume retail channels. Shuttle PC does not advertise in mainstream media. Generally the people who buy Shuttle PC are pretty much people who already know about it or people who seek it out.
These are not options given to the general public as information to enable them to actively choose.
People already understand these advantages.
This is one of the reason I continue to point out laptops. Laptop sales are growing because they are a compact all-in-one.
Any disadvantage you can point out with the desktop AIO is basically the exact same disadvantage with the laptop. Yet laptops are outgrowing desktops.
Any disadvantage in AIO is ignored in a laptop because it is portable.
Just what exactly are the advantages in the AIO's favor.
.....I see only one true advantage - space
.....Ease of set up, maybe slightly
People claim it is easier to set up, but really, plugging in one cable to the monitor over an AIO I consider hardly an advantage, but I'll concede this.
Disadvantages in no particular order
....In the rapidly changing world of tech - no upgrades. (USB to USB 2, Firewire to Firewire 800, Bluetooth to whatever is next) If you think this is unimportant ask anyone with an AIO with the older USB when Apple dropped the iPod's firewire port. Windows user bought inexpensive USB 2 cards and were good to go.
....Integrated monitor - rarely do both the monitor and the computer need to be replaced at the same time. Especially with any potential switchers.
....In the current iMacs the use of a more expensive laptop cpu with lower clock speeds than could be used.
....No way to upgrade the video card, even at the time of purchase
....Desktop clutter when adding external hard drive or optical drives.
....Cost - It is more expensive to design AIOs than towers or SFF computers, although I suspect the incremental cost is insignificant.
....Repairs - if the video, USB, firewire or sound goes wonky no just adding a PCI card.
....Repairs - if the monitor goes bad after the first year, send into Apple and be prepared to pay. Of course you could buy Apple's extended warranty for $239. Wonder what kind of monitor that'll buy?
....No up-selling the consumer in faster graphics cards.
....No up-selling the consumer with additional internal hard drive.
....No up-selling the consumer with additional internal optical drive.
....Resistance from video card manufacturers to produce video cards for an artificially constrained market(ony the Pro towers). If all the iMacs sold could use a card, don't you think ATI and Nvidia might offer more?
Now the virtues of AIO may justify Apple's product mix, but consumers are not easily swayed and even though many people here don't think the typical consumer thinks of these things, I'm betting they do and the people they trust to give them advise do.
Oh, I forgot one more advantage for the AIO, only one box to open, as pointed out in the latest Mac guy/PC guy commercials.
People claim it is easier to set up, but really, plugging in one cable to the monitor over an AIO I consider hardly an advantage, but I'll concede this.
I agree with everything you said except this .
It's actually 2 cables, 1 for power for the monitor and 1 for the i/o for the monitor
Otherwise a perfect score on hitting things I always forget to bring in my arguemtn, such as the more graphic cards avail argument. Good job rickag!
Comments
Regarding the iMac AIO, what would be a legitimate reason for a corporation to reject it for their 5,000 secretaries and administrative assistants? Certainly PCIe slots and gee-whiz GPUs would not be a consideration. And they are buying monitors anyway. Why would the corporation insist on the bulky and two-piece tower/monitor setup, with its extra cord and footprint, over the iMac $999 deal? Maybe in lots of 5,000 they could get them for $799.
Consider the monitor breaking / burning out. The machine is toast after that. I suppose they can pull the harddrive out and put it in another one. But Wouldn't it be easier to just switch the lcd?
Consider the monitor breaking / burning out. The machine is toast after that. I suppose they can pull the harddrive out and put it in another one. But Wouldn't it be easier to just switch the lcd?
Send to Apple and have them swap out the LCD on Applecare. Yes, more annoying as you have to restore onto a temp machine while the machine is out.
But while I can retrieve backups from retrospect on my mac without IT intervention it is more difficult on Windows. Eh, mostly its what IT is willing to do rather than LCD as an issue. TCo should be similar unless you have a heavy MS infrastructure. Somethings just don't run well outside of explorer.
Vinea
It's difficult enough to get people to switch away from something they are accustomed to using and try something different. Why add the necessity for folks to also give up their familiar tower and buy either the tiny Mini or the iMac? Does this make sense? Personally, I think not.
You guys are placing way too much on the notion that people actively choose a separate monitor and desktop.
When you walk into Best Buy, Circuit City, etc the tower desktop is your only option. When you go to Dell's website they don't give equal attention to their AIO as they do their towers. You have to navigate Dell's labyrinth to find its AIO.
Shuttle PC is not sold in mainstream high volume retail channels. Shuttle PC does not advertise in mainstream media. Generally the people who buy Shuttle PC are pretty much people who already know about it or people who seek it out.
These are not options given to the general public as information to enable them to actively choose.
Simple! Then the commercials should be tauting the virtues of AIO and ultra SFF over towers, no?
People already understand these advantages.
This is one of the reason I continue to point out laptops. Laptop sales are growing because they are a compact all-in-one.
Consider the monitor breaking / burning out. The machine is toast after that. I suppose they can pull the harddrive out and put it in another one. But Wouldn't it be easier to just switch the lcd?
Any disadvantage you can point out with the desktop AIO is basically the exact same disadvantage with the laptop. Yet laptops are outgrowing desktops.
Send to Apple and have them swap out the LCD on Applecare. Yes, more annoying as you have to restore onto a temp machine while the machine is out.
But while I can retrieve backups from retrospect on my mac without IT intervention it is more difficult on Windows. Eh, mostly its what IT is willing to do rather than LCD as an issue. TCo should be similar unless you have a heavy MS infrastructure. Somethings just don't run well outside of explorer.
Vinea
I guess you can send it to apple, switch the harddrive or back it up. But it takes more time than just replacing the monitor. I'm probably splitting hairs.
What is TCo?
Edit: Actually the more I think about it, the more I can see why a business would want a machine with expandability over a machine without one. Keep in mind I have only worked in IT one time in my life and that was for a news paper. They had over 50 macs and 40 pcs. And there was 2 IT people. Anyways, I remember doing processor upgrades in those macs and pcs. This was back in the beige power mac days. Adding g3 and g4 cards. Some of the machines that were around at the time were frankenmacs 3-5 years old. Long story short, I can see a business wanting to upgrade a machine along with the times changing, other than replacing the whole thing. It does cost less money... at least in the short term. Only drawback I can see is more IT problems from that machine... but with apple going intel, the processors should be drop in replacements. Especially since all the sockets are pretty modern now (479, 775, 771). I could see IT wanting to swap a lcd and have that machine up and running instead of actually sending in that machine to apple. That is 1 less machine they have, that they otherwise could have had if they replaced the lcd. And why would they want another company fixing their computers? Could be even more of a problem because you HAVE to yank a harddrive out of a work computer when it's being sent in because of sensitive data on the harddrive. Seems like overkill for businesses to me. To me the only machines that are optional for a real business is the mac pro and the xserve.
Any disadvantage you can point out with the desktop AIO is basically the exact same disadvantage with the laptop. Yet laptops are outgrowing desktops.
I'm not an expert on market, so take anything I say with a grain of salt...
But, I don't see the laptop's gaining ground this quickly forever. I think a lot of people couldn't afford laptops until recently. And a laptop is definitely not for everyone. A family isn't going to share a laptop. The screens are too small for elders. Would you trust your 7 year old with a laptop at home? Laptops are popular with school kids. I think they are popular with people on the go. But there will always be market areas a laptop will fail to penetrate. Example, I've been working off of a 1.25ghz g4 15" pb for the last eighteen months (with a 20" samsung widescreen). I can't stand to work on a laptop any more. I'm tired of having to use a 15" screen (or even a 17" screen) as a primary monitor. I really messed up when I sold my powermac g5.
Again take these comments with the grain of salt... but I kinda predicts that there will be a big spike in desktop sales in the next year. I think businesses are ready to get the next generation of hardware (single core out, dual / quad core in). And I feel consumers are also in this same boat. Obviously we'll have to wait and see.
Regarding the iMac AIO, what would be a legitimate reason for a corporation to reject it for their 5,000 secretaries and administrative assistants? . . . Why would the corporation insist on the bulky and two-piece tower/monitor setup, with its extra cord and footprint, over the iMac . . ?
I like the question, since I believe business is one of two markets Apple needs to put more effort into. Possibly too, business may be more receptive to change than say consumers looking at the low and mid price range, but I have to agree with emig647, that interchangeable monitors can be a big plus. Got a secretary with poor eyesight? Give the secretary a larger display. The computer configuration remains the same.
Possibly, business might be receptive to something like a big mini from Apple, which has been discussed before. I think the current Mac Mini is too small, with limited number of I/O ports. Using standard drives in a much larger mini would also lower the manufacturing cost, and let Apple sell it for less, which should appeal to business.
Make the footprint large enough, and folks could place an Apple display on top of it, keeping desk clutter down. I don't think many other displays would fit on top. The Apple display has a fairly small base. Hmmm. It could generate more display sales for Apple.
Any disadvantage you can point out with the desktop AIO is basically the exact same disadvantage with the laptop. Yet laptops are outgrowing desktops.
Well, laptops are mobile so they do enjoy one major advantage over AIOs.
Vinea
I guess you can send it to apple, switch the harddrive or back it up. But it takes more time than just replacing the monitor. I'm probably splitting hairs.
Yes, it is a downside of an AIOs.
What is TCo?
Total cost of ownership...should be TCO.
Edit: Actually the more I think about it, the more I can see why a business would want a machine with expandability over a machine without one. Keep in mind I have only worked in IT one time in my life and that was for a news paper. They had over 50 macs and 40 pcs. And there was 2 IT people. Anyways, I remember doing processor upgrades in those macs and pcs. This was back in the beige power mac days. Adding g3 and g4 cards. Some of the machines that were around at the time were frankenmacs 3-5 years old. Long story short, I can see a business wanting to upgrade a machine along with the times changing, other than replacing the whole thing. It does cost less money... at least in the short term.
Back then a PC was a larger investment. Today they can be much less expensive. Cheaper to EBay or donate older machines and get new ones from Dell every 3 years.
And why would they want another company fixing their computers? Could be even more of a problem because you HAVE to yank a harddrive out of a work computer when it's being sent in because of sensitive data on the harddrive. Seems like overkill for businesses to me.
Nah...cheaper to outsource than maintain your own techs. Where I work we have a large IT staff and they still send stuff out to Dell or Apple for service. Even for fairly benign problems. Of course, given their age I'd say a good 80-90% of our desktops are under warranty as our replacement cycle is 3-4 years.
Vinea
You guys are placing way too much on the notion that people actively choose a separate monitor and desktop.
I agree with you on this point. Most "average" computer users buy a bundle. They take whatever PC and Monitor combination comes together for the price they want.
That said, there is still an issue that keeps getting lost in this long, long, drawn-out discussion. There are many people -- like me -- who want a desktop computer, with desktop components, at a resonable price.
Mac Mini - All notebook components. Notebook CPU, notebook hard drive, integrated graphics.
iMac - Some notebook components. Notebook CPU, limited upgrade options (No high speed HD, no high speed graphics)
Mac Pro - Server components. Dual Xeon processors. Prices quickly jump over $3,000 when customized.
There is still a glaring hole between the Mini and the Mac Pro for a Desktop PC with desktop components at a consumer (or even prosumer) price. Rather than trying to shoe-horn me into a computer that's not the right fit, why not let me buy a Mac without an LCD? Instead, let me spend that savings on a 2.66 of 3.0 GHz Core 2 Duo, more memory or a 10,000 RPM HDD.
The Mac Pro is over the moon in performance. The iMac is somewhat under the moon. There's still a sweet spot in there that Apple isn't hitting.
I like the question, since I believe business is one of two markets Apple needs to put more effort into. Possibly too, business may be more receptive to change than say consumers looking at the low and mid price range, but I have to agree with emig647, that interchangeable monitors can be a big plus.
The monitor and form factor are minor issues in comparison to the IT infrastructure that is very much oriented around MS and OSX is missing major business software. Even the lower TCO on a unit basis doesn't seem to make up for that. We have a handful of mac IT folks supporting several hundred Mac users (maybe even a thousand but I doubt it). We have a bunch more IT folks supporting a few thousand users. The ratios aren't close....it takes far fewer folks to maintain the mac side than the PC side.
The caveat is you can't do everything you need on the mac. Apple made the decision not to compete in the corporate arena and Mac users are certainly 2nd class citizens in most Exchange/LCS shops. The intergration of Entourage w/Exchange vs Outlook still lags greatly. Lack of ActiveX cripples many web based apps common to business. Even Outlook Web Access suffers greatly on the Mac platform. Its going to suck more when we lose VB from Excel.
Parallels (and the additional costs) is a nice change but for the basic business user a $300-$400 Dell is more than adequate. About the only thing you really miss out on is Keynote vs PowerPoint. And perhaps iChat/AV.
Vinea
Just a couple more thought on a business Mac. The business market can be segmented, just like we segment the overall market for personal computers. Apple is pretty good at picking out those segments where the Mac can shine the most. I'm sure this is the strategy Apple would employ. In time, Apple could develop applications and technology that would help it compete in more and more business market segments. I believe Apple has already started on this course by its offerings in the server market.
One last thought -- as each particular company switches to the Mac, it will be some small influence on the employees to think about switching too. It is a domino effect. Some employees will switch, to be compatible with their job.
There is still a glaring hole between the Mini and the Mac Pro for a Desktop PC with desktop components at a consumer (or even prosumer) price. Rather than trying to shoe-horn me into a computer that's not the right fit, why not let me buy a Mac without an LCD? Instead, let me spend that savings on a 2.66 of 3.0 GHz Core 2 Duo, more memory or a 10,000 RPM HDD.
The Mac Pro is over the moon in performance. The iMac is somewhat under the moon. There's still a sweet spot in there that Apple isn't hitting.
Couldn't have said it any better. All of us can argue until the cows come home. But I think a majority of us agree there is 'something' missing. I'm actually surprised this thread has gone on as long as it has.
YEP!!! That is why a lot of school proposals with macs get shot down. All of the parents of the kids ore board members use pc's because that is what they have to work on. If they have to work on a mac... better support for the mac consumers. Just my 47 cents.
I'm actually surprised this thread has gone on as long as it has.
We haven't worn down all the opposition yet!
You guys are placing way too much on the notion that people actively choose a separate monitor and desktop.
When you walk into Best Buy, Circuit City, etc the tower desktop is your only option. When you go to Dell's website they don't give equal attention to their AIO as they do their towers. You have to navigate Dell's labyrinth to find its AIO.
Shuttle PC is not sold in mainstream high volume retail channels. Shuttle PC does not advertise in mainstream media. Generally the people who buy Shuttle PC are pretty much people who already know about it or people who seek it out.
These are not options given to the general public as information to enable them to actively choose.
People already understand these advantages.
This is one of the reason I continue to point out laptops. Laptop sales are growing because they are a compact all-in-one.
Any disadvantage you can point out with the desktop AIO is basically the exact same disadvantage with the laptop. Yet laptops are outgrowing desktops.
Any disadvantage in AIO is ignored in a laptop because it is portable.
Just what exactly are the advantages in the AIO's favor.
.....I see only one true advantage - space
.....Ease of set up, maybe slightly
People claim it is easier to set up, but really, plugging in one cable to the monitor over an AIO I consider hardly an advantage, but I'll concede this.
Disadvantages in no particular order
....In the rapidly changing world of tech - no upgrades. (USB to USB 2, Firewire to Firewire 800, Bluetooth to whatever is next) If you think this is unimportant ask anyone with an AIO with the older USB when Apple dropped the iPod's firewire port. Windows user bought inexpensive USB 2 cards and were good to go.
....Integrated monitor - rarely do both the monitor and the computer need to be replaced at the same time. Especially with any potential switchers.
....In the current iMacs the use of a more expensive laptop cpu with lower clock speeds than could be used.
....No way to upgrade the video card, even at the time of purchase
....Desktop clutter when adding external hard drive or optical drives.
....Cost - It is more expensive to design AIOs than towers or SFF computers, although I suspect the incremental cost is insignificant.
....Repairs - if the video, USB, firewire or sound goes wonky no just adding a PCI card.
....Repairs - if the monitor goes bad after the first year, send into Apple and be prepared to pay. Of course you could buy Apple's extended warranty for $239. Wonder what kind of monitor that'll buy?
....No up-selling the consumer in faster graphics cards.
....No up-selling the consumer with additional internal hard drive.
....No up-selling the consumer with additional internal optical drive.
....Resistance from video card manufacturers to produce video cards for an artificially constrained market(ony the Pro towers). If all the iMacs sold could use a card, don't you think ATI and Nvidia might offer more?
Now the virtues of AIO may justify Apple's product mix, but consumers are not easily swayed and even though many people here don't think the typical consumer thinks of these things, I'm betting they do and the people they trust to give them advise do.
Oh, I forgot one more advantage for the AIO, only one box to open, as pointed out in the latest Mac guy/PC guy commercials.
Lemon Bon Bon
People claim it is easier to set up, but really, plugging in one cable to the monitor over an AIO I consider hardly an advantage, but I'll concede this.
I agree with everything you said except this
It's actually 2 cables, 1 for power for the monitor and 1 for the i/o for the monitor
Otherwise a perfect score on hitting things I always forget to bring in my arguemtn, such as the more graphic cards avail argument. Good job rickag!
-----------------------------
Desktop CPU
Desktop HDD
Desktop GPU
Desktop RAM
===
Desktop Performance
Desktop Price (not server price)
Where is Onlooker? I think this is like the only subject we could ever agree on.
What a freaking concept! Desktop parts in a computer? nooooooooooooooooo..... that makes no sense.
Where is Onlooker? I think this is like the only subject we could ever agree on.
how about iMac Pro???