henrybay

How can the new MacBook keyboard be better than the old one? Give me a break. There is virtually zero key travel! The old MacBook Air had one of the best keyboards ever - millions of users around the world didn’t just like it - they loved it.

The only reason Apple persists with this ridiculously shallow butterfly keyboard is because they have invested so much money into the project and are too proud to admit they made a mistake. 

Watch the numerous youtube video reviews of the new MacBook Air and notice how lukewarm the reviewers are towards its keyboard. None of them rave about it - they just tolerate it. Hardly a glowing endorsement. 

Apple designers your new butterfly keyboard is too S H A L L O W. It needs more key T R A V E L. No amount of silicon glue will fix this problem - it needs to be redesigned. 

MauiMac5341 said:

from henrybay:

I have tested the keyboards (but don't own one yet - still happy with my 4 yo MBP), and they seem fine, any new keyboard takes a bit to get used to, but that takes a few days, then you are over it.  and your wrong - the best keyboard is the apple magic keyboard!

Agreed, the Apple Magic Keyboard is very good - but that's because it has a sufficient amount of key travel. The new butterfly keyboards have barely any. They feel like typing on an iPad.

Regarding your point about Apple's consumer testing - Steve Jobs was famous for saying he didn't trust it because 'It's really hard to design products by focus groups. A lot of times, people don't know what they want until you show it to them.' I suspect that Apple believes that consumers will eventually get used to its ultra shallow keyboards - in the same way that airlines hope that passengers will get used to less legroom. The passengers just don't realise they really want less legroom because they haven't appreciated the importance of feeling snug.

This whole keyboard problem could be avoided if Apple increased the key travel by just a few millimetres. it's not rocket science.

You forgot to mention the one feature that makes the new MacBook Air unuseable for many people. 

The keyboard. It’s attrocious. It offers so little keytravel that it’s like typing on a flat surface. There is insufficient feedback to provide a satisfying typing experience. You need an external keyboard (with decent key travel) to make the MacBook Air a useful tool. Which defeats the whole purpose of thin and light. 

Apple please replace these ridiculously flat, unresponsive keyboards! They are ruining your MacBook products. 

It may be the fastest laptop Apple has ever made, but it still has a ridiculously shallow keyboard. Such a shame. 

foregoneconclusion said:

henrybay said:

The class action should also include the lack of adequate keyboard travel on the new MacBooks. Shallow keys are terrible for long writing sessions. They are not much better than writing on an iPad. 

My own suspicion is that what people think is a lack of "travel" or "feel" is actually a lack of "wobble". The butterfly mechanism was specifically introduced to cut back on the wobble of the key when struck vs. the hinge design. It also seems unlikely when looking at prior keyboard designs that the keys are really traveling much further physically. There may be a difference, but you're probably talking about fractions of a millimeter.

Nope, it’s definitely a travel issue rather than a wobble issue. The keys on my old 11inch MacBook Air travel nearly twice the distance of the MacBook Pro according to the calibrated calipers I use. Hence, the older machine is much more comfortable to type on - but the screen is inferior to the MacBook Pro. My ideal computer would combine the wonderful older keyboard with the new retina screen.  

The main factor now driving Apple profitability is the software (iOS, MacOS), not the hardware. 

Apple’s hardware is being destroyed by a ‘design extremism’ that prioritises thinness and minimalism over functionality. This results in faulty keyboards, lack of ports and the removal of much loved features Ike Touch ID and MagSafe cables. 

Jony Ives has much to answer for in this respect. But Tim Cook won’t challenge him because he is basically a supply chain management guy, and feels out of his depth when it comes to design aesthetics and functionality. 

If Steve Jobs we’re alive today he would tell Ives, ‘I don’t care how elegantly thin the new MacBook is, if the keyboard doesn’t work it’s trash! And stop removing stuff from our products that people really like - like ports, and TouchID. We’re not creating art here, we’re trying to make products that folks love to use and can rely on! If this means they have to be a little thicker - make them thicker, God dam it!’ 

If Jobs was in a particularly bad mood, he might add, ‘Look Jony, you’ve had a good run here at Apple, but all this adulation and success has gone to your head. You’ve become a design extremist, and our products are suffering for it. If you don’t prioritise functionality over thinness it’s time for you to move on.’ 

A keyboard that actually works would be a big step towards social responsibility, Mr Ive. 

jdw said:

"ultimately the work we do stands testament to who we are and what we care about..."

So let's examine the work they do...

• Butterfly keyboards
• No MagSafe on MacBooks labeled "Pro"
• No SD Card Slots
• No LED on charging cable
• No extension power cord in the box anymore
• Not a single USB-A port on the MBP regardless of the fact USB-A is still ubiquitous in April 2019 and most of us have USB-A thumb drives galore!

What Apple is and what they care about is out of touch with The Rest of Us.  Seriously, I love Apple, but all this philosophical chit-chat from Ive in no way makes me think better of Apple.  Apple products and they practical features they offer me governs how I think about Apple at any given time.

Agreed. If Mr Ives was serious about ‘social responsibility’ he would stop sacrificing functionality for the utopian pursuit of ‘extreme thinness’. It’s hypocritical to preach social values while ignoring the problems in your own backyard.