inductor

The problem is a lot more complicated than just the pricing. Why would anyone want to pay a >100% premium over the nearest competition (Galaxy Note 9) when half the features which make iPhones a joy to use in the US don’t even work in the country? Apple Pay, Apple Maps, Siri, Apple News, Apple TV App... the list is endless. The privacy angle doesn’t work either, since people are forced to use Google services like Maps even when they use the iPhone. If my data is going to Google anyway, I might as well use an Android which is seamlessly integrated into the Google ecosystem and costs less then half as much!

A couple of years ago, the longevity of Apple devices was a compelling reason to buy them. But at current prices, when one can buy two flagship smartphones like Note 9 and still be left with some cash, the argument is rendered moot. And unlike people in the western world, most Indians don’t exactly know a lot of people who own iPhones, making iMessages/FaceTime just another gimmick. If anything, iPhones no longer “just work” the way they were famous for. For example, Samsung Pay is almost universally accepted throughout the country thanks to MST which doesn’t need an overhaul of the POS terminals. Combined with Google Pay/UPI, an Android Phone works almost everywhere. Google Assistant actually works and provides information about things that Indians actually care about. SMS is another such example. One just has to look at Microsoft SMS app to see how far Apple has been left behind — iPhones don’t even allow you to segregate personal messages from commercial ones like those from your telecom operator — or to manually unmark a message once it has been marked as spam.

I recently decided to upgrade from my aging iPhone 7 Plus, and as a longtime iPhone user and evangelist, my first preference was naturally an iPhone XS Max. But when I realised that the device costs around 124,900 INR — approximately 1,725 USD — for the 256 GB model I wanted, I just couldn’t justify the purchase. Not when the Note 9 — which does a lot more for a power user like me than any iPhone — is available for 61,000 INR — approximately 840 USD. Was the price a factor? Certainly! But I would still have paid the price if iPhones worked for me the way they do for someone in the US. I have used an iPhone in the US — and I found it an absolute joy to use — miles ahead of any Android. But why would I want to pay twice the amount for a device which doesn’t even work they way it is advertised? 

Don’t get me wrong — I am not someone who had an epiphany that Android is so much better. No, I still believe that iOS ecosystem is far superior to anything Android has to offer — although the gap is narrowing with every passing year. I am just a longtime Indian iPhone user who is frustrated by the lack of commitment Apple has shown the Indian market — no matter how bullish Tim Cook might feel.

And that is the crux of the problem — a serious lack of commitment to the market. Given the way Apple has been building things for the Chinese users, I — along with several others — had seriously hoped that Apple would do similar things for India. At this point, I don’t believe it is a matter of resources or priorities anymore. It’s a simple lack of commitment. At this point, an iPhone has become a mere rich snob’s toy in India — the kind of people who use it more or less like a feature phone of the past. The real Apple loyalists have slowly been slipping away. And given how much of a pain it is to switch platforms — and that Android is not as horrible as it used to be — they are unlikely to come back once gone.

Oh, and by the way, OnePlus (and Xiaomi, to a lesser extant) is successful not just because of the pricing — although that is certainly a factor. A major factor is that they actually listen to what the users want and deliver to the best of their abilities. Apple, on the other hand, is content to sit in their ivory tower and decide what is best for their users. While the Android world has progressed by leaps and bounds over the past few years, the iPhone has stagnated — iterating over the same old device over and over. Reminds me of Microsoft of 2000s — content to milk the cash cow by whatever means they could — including flashy marketing and gimmicky features like Animoji — while ignoring the real problems.

racerhomie3 said:

inductor said:

racerhomie3 said:

inductor said:

racerhomie3 said:

Like Tim Cook said, India is a long term investment for Apple. Those One Plus users will turn into future Samsung users & so on. The Indian government doesn’t want their people to even own refurbished iPhones.That tells me more than enough.

If Apple is playing the long term game here, they are in for a rude shock. As the ecosystems mature and people grow up with them, it gets harder and harder to get them to switch. It was easier when Android was a bumbling mess. And in many way, it still is, but it is getting better with every passing year. While it may not become as polished as iOS any time soon, it is already near the threshold where many people consider it “good enough.” All of this has happened before with Windows and macOS. 

And what is wrong with the Indian Government not wanting to let the country be used as a dumping ground for e-waste? I, for one, fully support the decision.

I know iPhone 2Gs that still work reliably. That e waste argument is total nonsense.US enjoys refurbished phones, so does Japan.Its the Indian governments stupid politicies that lets consumers down.Ironically ave. Indian has to change phones every 6 months due to issues, so e waste is being created anyways. So Indians are moving towards dumb phones now.

Really? Can you use an iPhone 2G as anything more than a feature phone in 2018? And what makes you think that Indians switch phones every 6 months? Or that Indians are moving towards dumb phones? Can you cite any sources? And see my response to “Folio” about e-waste. To summarise, Apple has a significant presence in US/UK/Japan and they take care of disposing/recycling end-of-life devices — India has no such mechanism. Also, I don’t really expect that the US or the UK need to import refurbished devices — unless you count devices being exported for refurbishing and being re-imported.

Yeah . Email ,Safari for YouTube & Facebook still work on the 2G.
Yeah, indians are moving from android phones to dumb jio phones & others. Search the web for the link. I think I read it on economictimes.indiatimes.

And those run equally well on a feature phone. On the other hand, many apps (like WhatsApp) have been cutting off older phones — including older iPhones. And Indians are not switching from Android to Jio phones — at least not in significant numbers. Jio Phone has been so successful because it managed to get people who have never used anything beyond a dumb phone — uneducated people from rural areas, for example — to use data services (LTE). That, and a lot of people use it as a backup phone/hotspot. Jio Phone is serviceable, but not good enough to replace a smartphone — even a low-end Android. Its achievement is to bring millions of new users into the smartphone sphere.

ascii said:

How does Apple's minimalist aesthetic go down in India? They have ornate buildings (Taj Mahal), extravagant dance numbers, multi-coloured saris, dishes with many ingredients, and long names (Venkatanarasimharajuvaripeta) which tends to suggest a non-minimalist culture. 

Perhaps Android with its many varied hardware and software options just fits the national taste better.

India is a diverse country. There is enough space for everyone — including Apple — if only they were willing to make the effort. Fancy advertising and company owned flagship stores are not going to help much if iPhones don’t actually work as advertised and Apple insists on charging twice as much as the nearest competitoon in Android world.

racerhomie3 said:

inductor said:

racerhomie3 said:

Like Tim Cook said, India is a long term investment for Apple. Those One Plus users will turn into future Samsung users & so on. The Indian government doesn’t want their people to even own refurbished iPhones.That tells me more than enough.

If Apple is playing the long term game here, they are in for a rude shock. As the ecosystems mature and people grow up with them, it gets harder and harder to get them to switch. It was easier when Android was a bumbling mess. And in many way, it still is, but it is getting better with every passing year. While it may not become as polished as iOS any time soon, it is already near the threshold where many people consider it “good enough.” All of this has happened before with Windows and macOS. 

And what is wrong with the Indian Government not wanting to let the country be used as a dumping ground for e-waste? I, for one, fully support the decision.

I know iPhone 2Gs that still work reliably. That e waste argument is total nonsense.US enjoys refurbished phones, so does Japan.Its the Indian governments stupid politicies that lets consumers down.Ironically ave. Indian has to change phones every 6 months due to issues, so e waste is being created anyways. So Indians are moving towards dumb phones now.

Really? Can you use an iPhone 2G as anything more than a feature phone in 2018? And what makes you think that Indians switch phones every 6 months? Or that Indians are moving towards dumb phones? Can you cite any sources? And see my response to “Folio” about e-waste. To summarise, Apple has a significant presence in US/UK/Japan and they take care of disposing/recycling end-of-life devices — India has no such mechanism. Also, I don’t really expect that the US or the UK need to import refurbished devices — unless you count devices being exported for refurbishing and being re-imported.