crashfreeze

flootist said:
New poster here, and I promise I'm not a troll. Hello to all. 

Also new poster but and also a former retail employee.

Unfortunately this is all correct, and it has been their modus operandi from day one (which means it actually began under Jobs, though who knows? May have been Forestalls baby). 

I am surprised you did not mention Ron Johnson who was senior vice president of retail operations at the time and gave a video address to retail store employees at every all staff meeting about goals, successes, and new programs.

About ten years ago, I got hired twice at the local Apple store. I never accepted because of the low pay, which at the time was less than $7 an hour (though please note that geniuses make more than sales people).  No, there are no sales commissions or potentials for advancement. I actually made more working part time at a call center than I would have for the richest company on earth (and got benefits, too!). 

I worked in two different stores for 4 years started around 2008. Started in the Midwest and transferred to the New England area. Starting pay varied widely based on region. For example my starting pay was a little over $10 (sales associate) in the midwest but was closer to $14 - $15 when I moved to the New England area with my wife. The pay increase from my move was not a raise but rather to match the pay for that region. The pay rate was much higher than the average in both malls I worked in and was huge attractor to applicants who currently worked in the mall but wanted to start working at the Apple Store.

I worked as a sales associate for 1 and 1/2 years before moving to the business team for a year, then Creative 1 and 1/2 years. I was on the list of potential candidates for Lead Creative when my wife's job required us to move again and I decided to take a different job in our new state.

Every store is different but as far as advancement potential all of our Creative staff were promoted from within the sales staff and almost all our Genius staff were the same. One of the genius staff moved on to work for Apple corporate through a program that give retail staff a chance to advance to corporate that began with a 3 month trial which at the end payed for him and his family to move to Cupertino.

The biggest problem with advancement is the competition. There are a lot of retail employees and you really need to be an outstanding employee to move up. In some office jobs there is an idea that simply being a standard employee for years entitles you to advancement, but at Apple retail you need to prove yourself to earn an advancement which isn't going to work for everyone, especially at stores that have a lot of star employees.

I always assumed this was to keep their frontline comprised of young, 'hip' staff that don't need to rely on the job or just don't know any better, though I have seen the occasional employee over 30 since that time. 

Again, all stores are different. Both stores I worked at had a lot of young employees, but also a mix of all ages. I would say over half the midwest staff were over 30 and smilier on the East coast. The young employees are the ones that come and go fast so the older ones stuck around and were really appreciated. We even had a staff member who was over 60. I myself was in my 20's during my time at Apple. They didn't hire the younger employees for show, it was because that is who most of the applicants were.

One last thing (no pun intended): Apple retail is a separate division internally, you are NOT working 'for Apple' proper. If you have fantasies of climbing the Apple ladder, forget it. The two divisions do not intermingle.

I think the truth is that working retail is not the best way to get the relevant job experience necessary to work many of the corporate jobs. Like I said above we did have a Genius move from retail to corporate because they have a recruitment program designed specifically to help employees make the jump. If you want to become the regional sales manager for education in your area, then yes retail is a place you could start. But if want to be a software engineer then a retail job at Apple isn't the best path.

My management always made it clear what the path was for advancement within the retail environment. When I wanted to move from the business team to Creative I told the management staff my desire and they gave me a roadmap of what they expected of me and when openings became available. They also assisted me when I need to transfer to a different state for my spouses work. Quality of management can vary from store to store but one experience with a particular management team is not necessarily a representation of the retail experience.

Depending on a person's needs and temperament, it could be fun, but there are other non-professional jobs that offer more to their employees. Heck, you'd likely do better waiting tables or working for Geek Squad.

I applied for a job with the Geek Squad the exact same time I applied at Apple while living in the midwest. The pay rate was the same. Once again regionally this could be different.